Khepesh wrote:Yes, to both posts above. There would still have been war as Versailles saw to that, and war in the Pacific would have happened regardless. The point I want to make is that tho a war in Europe would have happened eventually, if it happened without Hitler and without the extreme ideological divide between Left and Right, then perhaps it may have been a "normal" war without the nazi nightmare we got. Tho Aufbau was not the creator of NSDAP and faded from the scene in 1923, it may just be possible that without their help at the very beginning, things may have turned out differently as regards Hitler. If he still came to power, which is likely, then maybe without the early help perhaps a bit later than he did, and giving allied powers more time to prepare. Tho with a Russia, not a Soviet union, seriously damaged and struggling to recover from the war, maybe in 1939, if it still happened then, no Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and not likely an equivalent, and maybe Hitler invaded Poland and did not stop until the Volga, or Urals...
I agree that the dogmatic element made the war a real nightmare, however, while the whole Jews+Commies=Evul idea added a special flavour, Jews alone were quite the culprits in the eyes of the (some) Junkers. The German Imperial army ordered a central inquiry on the roles the Jews had in the breakdown of the German forces. This, while Adlof Hitter was a nobody. The various little groups that would make the Stahlhelm a competitor (for a while) of the NSDAP would be all full of antisemites, believing hard as hell that Joos were to blame. The whole banking=Joo bloodsucker zentral is a recurring theme of the 19th century. Before the commies, you had Free-Masons, before them you had Jewish-controlled socialists. In other words the Jews were going to get some, regardless on the tomfoolery that was Adlof the mono-balled idiot.
The biggest challenge was the Soviet Union that stood by the Weimar Republic and arguably helped built the ground that saw Adolf claim the fruits of in the mid 30's. The biggest challenge was the fact that the SSSR offered Germany a breathing space, before Germany became all crazy, through cheaper than dirt cotton, grain and iron ore. DAT was the inherent scare of the "Allies" a freakish multiton, multi headed behemoth with brains and people to spare, combining the two menaces to the "civilized world". German philosophical madness (alternative thinking system) and Russian brutal resilience (endless ressources). It was already a de facto situation prior to the war, with an intertwined family relationship (yay for inbreds). And it was a dead-on relationship after. This point, that is often neglected in "official" historiography, (because you know we can't confess that favoring a murderous asshole was in order to split a real world competitor), is a real hindsight to the long game that is still being played today.
Now there is also another problem, without CCCP, Turkey wouldn't be able to rally and recover the way it did. In that Sense Mustafa Kemal had the best luck of the world that The Soviet Union was out to get Das Kapital, because it allowed Turkey to crush the Armenians, flip the bird to the treaty of Sèvres and reclaim through open warfare pretty much every little speck of ground it could without getting Freedomized from the competing Empires. Furthermore, it kinda protected the SSSR quite well on its underbelly given the "Allies" would have to go through Iran to get to "Russia". And we know how that ended before even starting with a chaotic Reza Shah interregnum and then a rather hostile new "emperor" in Persia.
So while anti-Soviet sentiment among numerous exiles (and on this one I am with you, Ukro-bullshit was a strong engine behind British propaganda during the 20's and 30's) really provided a fertile ground for anti-Russian garbage, the real aims for any Führer out there were the ressources of Russia, this is certain. And whatever dressing it took, we can all rest assured that it would be quite the carnage.
On a side note, I hope no Turkish posters would mind, but the Turks took out the Armenian millyet on purely spot-made BS. No need for millenarist hatred a la Anti-semitism. Pure hato-cracy. You side with my enemy, I feed you to the pigs. The British went on the Boers without much problem. The US issued a properly genocidary order in the Philippines. The US wasn't a wholly crazy country either.
So no war is "normal", the Turks set out to purify a lot of Anatolian cities of their Greek populations (and some Albanian too with other Albanians help). The same Turks(Ottomans) emptied Morea of their Griko/Arvanit (Albanian) inhabitants again, while some Albanians and Greeks were helping them.
So the atrocities don't need to be purely dogmatic, sometimes they are simply set up by stiff, stubborn resistance. And I believe that the Russian man and woman are the prototypical "easterners", capable of enduring DPRK-style x1000 regimes, if the foreigner comes to knock on the door. And them gratify them with double the pain.
This is why Russia is what it is. A giant better not gotten worked up. Shuravi Shaytan etc.
So we can rest assured that had the war broken with any other big ensemble of nations, it would have been maybe a bit longer, but ended with my signature anyway.