Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Share
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6318
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:48 pm

    So here we go ... aparently 16 Ka-52K will be based on each Mistral

    Defense Ministry bought 32 decked Ka-52K

    avatar
    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4496
    Points : 4675
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:38 pm

    Viktor wrote:So here we go ... aparently 16 Ka-52K will be based on each Mistral

    Defense Ministry bought 32 decked Ka-52K


    That's an insane amount of firepower if you think about, especially if the "copters" come equipped with 40-100km ranged Hermes multi-purpose missiles!
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5700
    Points : 5736
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:06 pm

    Hermes will never get 100km or anywhere near that sort of range from a Helicopter.

    Let's get a 40km version in service before we talk of such wild numbers Wink.
    avatar
    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3145
    Points : 3235
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  medo on Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:14 pm

    Viktor wrote:So here we go ... aparently 16 Ka-52K will be based on each Mistral

    Defense Ministry bought 32 decked Ka-52K


    Not all at once. There will be 8 Ka-52K on Mistral, but buying 16 for each Mistral means rotation of helicopters on tours, for longer service life as well as for reserve for lost helicopters.
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4496
    Points : 4675
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:50 pm

    TR1 wrote:Hermes will never get 100km or anywhere near that sort of range from a Helicopter.

    Let's get a 40km version in service before we talk of such wild numbers Wink.

    Ahh, TR1 always the pessimist.  Can a man dream? Was man never supposed to fly? Was man never meant to leave Earth's Orbit? I dream of a world of no disease, no famine, no war, and a Hermes missile that's air-launched with a 100km range. Cool
    avatar
    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5362
    Points : 5601
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:19 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Hermes will never get 100km or anywhere near that sort of range from a Helicopter.

    Let's get a 40km version in service before we talk of such wild numbers Wink.

    Ahh, TR1 always the pessimist.  Can a man dream? Was man never supposed to fly? Was man never meant to leave Earth's Orbit? I dream of a world of no disease, no famine, no war, and a Hermes missile that's air-launched with a 100km range. Cool

    Well 100km from heliborne launch is not possible it would need to be launched at least from 8km altitude just to surpass 50km mark and it would need a slow burning motor for high altitude launches so it is not suitable for heliborne missions. 20km is easy with the Hermes and the figures we know about it and 40km would be in the figure of future Hermes development to have the longer arm to full fill SEAD/DEAD missions without endangering itself.
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:48 pm

    TR1 wrote:Hermes will never get 100km or anywhere near that sort of range from a Helicopter.

    Let's get a 40km version in service before we talk of such wild numbers Wink.

    Even the exportable surface-launched version of Germes, with a 210 mm first stage, has a range of 100 km. Let's also keep in mind that the missiles for Germes, Pantsir', and Palash are controlled during the first stage burn.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:59 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5700
    Points : 5736
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  TR1 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:55 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Hermes will never get 100km or anywhere near that sort of range from a Helicopter.

    Let's get a 40km version in service before we talk of such wild numbers Wink.

    Ahh, TR1 always the pessimist.  Can a man dream? Was man never supposed to fly? Was man never meant to leave Earth's Orbit? I dream of a world of no disease, no famine, no war, and a Hermes missile that's air-launched with a 100km range. Cool

    Realist my friend Wink .

    The reality is not so bad to rely on pipe dreams. Ka-52 is a kick ass helo as is.
    Also let us not forget 10 years ago it seemed certain the Ka-50 program was dead, with no hope for revival!
    And now there are hundreds of new attack helos on orders, and several dozen delivered each year.

    Naval Ka-52K is not something I could have even dreamed of.

    mutantsushi
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Posts : 282
    Points : 304
    Join date : 2013-12-11

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  mutantsushi on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:42 am

    what operational point is there in 100km range from a helicopter? how is it acquiring targets?
    avatar
    collegeboy16
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:08 am

    mutantsushi wrote:what operational point is there in 100km range from a helicopter?  how is it acquiring targets?
    i too think 40km is enough. anything bigger and you need a jet.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:33 am

    what operational point is there in 100km range from a helicopter? how is it acquiring targets?

    Hermes comes with a range of targeting options... From memory there was satellite guided (GLONASS), semi active laser spot homing, IR, and MMW Radar guidance options with the first part of the trajectory being radio command.

    The extended range is intended to allow standoff launch capability to protect the helos.

    Note of course with a RVV-BD missile it could shoot down enemy aircraft 200km+ away too...  Twisted Evil 


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3417
    Points : 3535
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:34 pm

    Ka-52s can fly very low and avoid any warship radar up to 40km distance from it ,when the the line of sight ends and launch an anti ship missile. They also can become the early warning system ,the eyes of low flying enemy planes too of a warship formation. What will be cool is small range Kalibers ~50km ,launched from Ka-52s.
    avatar
    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3145
    Points : 3235
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  medo on Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:07 pm

    I think Ka-52K will use Kh-31 missile, maybe in both versions, anti-ship and anti-radar, as it will have proper radar in nose and excellent ESW, which could work with anti-radar missiles. This missile will give quite a long range to Ka-52K and if integration of anti-radar missile go well, than maybe even standard Ka-52 could use it placed on inside pylons.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:46 am

    Should add that the total capacity of the Mistral class vessels is 16 aircraft each so I suspect that 8 will be the standard compliment with 8 on land as a reserve till the next two are built... if they are built.

    If not then having extra aircraft is OK.

    I would suspect that for a Ka-52K they might adapt an IIR homing model Kh-38 for the role... 250kg HE payload and 80km range in the domestic version with totally passive guidance would be very useful in the anti ship role.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 6092
    Points : 6498
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Austin on Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:22 am

    Defense Ministry will receive nearly 150 attack helicopters Ka-52 "Alligator" 2020

    http://itar-tass.com/politika/1275689


    MOSCOW, June 24. / ITAR-TASS /. One hundred forty six attack helicopters Ka-52 "Alligator" to supply the Russian Defense Ministry Arsenyev Aviation Company "Progress" (Primorye) until 2020. This was announced on Tuesday, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov.


    "Plant feels stable, has long-term contract for the supply of 146 helicopters Ka-52" Alligator "by 2020, the plans - 32 naval helicopter version," - he said. The deputy minister stressed that the fleet waiting for Ka-52K, which will be used to construct and helicopter type "Mistral".


    Yuri Borisov arrived in Primorye, to check the progress of a number of contracts for the state defense order, and to assess production capabilities of defense industry enterprises. During the meeting with the plant's management discussed a new contract on the serial delivery in 2015-2016 Ka-52K, the press service of the Defense Ministry.


    "Particular attention was paid to issues of import, including the accessories from the Ukraine, but critical questions asked this question painlessly solve" - ​​said Borisov.


    New generation attack helicopter Ka-52 "Alligator" is equipped with modern avionics and a powerful offensive weapons, which can be configured for a variety of combat missions.
    avatar
    Hannibal Barca
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1240
    Points : 1262
    Join date : 2013-12-13

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:03 am

    Finally this is some good numbers

    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 478
    Points : 501
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Asf on Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:35 pm

    32 naval helicopter version

    Strange, seems like less than a three squadrons. But there will be four mistrals!
    avatar
    macedonian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1082
    Points : 1117
    Join date : 2013-04-29
    Location : Skopje, Macedonia - Скопје, Македонија

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  macedonian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:40 pm

    Asf wrote:
    32 naval helicopter version

    Strange, seems like less than a three squadrons. But there will be four mistrals!

    There will be no more than two Mistrals unless EU policies change significantly and they turn their back on the US.
    And I think there's a bigger chance of Russia drilling for oil on Venus, and mining gold on Jupiter than that ever happening.

    Asf
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 478
    Points : 501
    Join date : 2014-03-27

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Asf on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:36 pm

    There will be no more than two Mistrals unless EU policies change significantly 

    Another two was planned to build in Russia. It was in a contract I presume.

    I've checked on the internet, seems there will be only 8 Ka-52's per a Mistral plus 8 multi-purpose helicopters, as one ship can take only 16 helicopters. 32/8=4. But still there must be a reserve copters, I think
    avatar
    macedonian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1082
    Points : 1117
    Join date : 2013-04-29
    Location : Skopje, Macedonia - Скопје, Македонија

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  macedonian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:48 pm

    Asf wrote:
    There will be no more than two Mistrals unless EU policies change significantly 

    Another two was planned to build in Russia. It was in a contract I presume.
    Yes, true - they were in the initial deal. Not going to happen if you ask me.

    Asf wrote:I've checked on the internet, seems there will be only 8 Ka-52's per a Mistral plus 8 multi-purpose helicopters, as one ship can take only 16 helicopters. 32/8=4.
    Well you shouldn't mix maths (or anything else for that matter) with politics...the results NEVER add up.  Very Happy 
    avatar
    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3145
    Points : 3235
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  medo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:36 pm

    I think Russia will have only two, if all will go right, so they will have 16 Ka-52 helicopters on two Mistrals and 16 helicopters in reserve for training and for rotation on Mistrals to prolong their life time in the sea environment.
    avatar
    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1660
    Points : 1821
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:48 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    Asf wrote:
    32 naval helicopter version

    Strange, seems like less than a three squadrons. But there will be four mistrals!

    There will be no more than two Mistrals unless EU policies change significantly and they turn their back on the US.
    And I think there's a bigger chance of Russia drilling for oil on Venus, and mining gold on Jupiter than that ever happening.


    I think there is bigger chance than that.
    Remember, the Mistral are something like a gift (bribe) to France to get concessions or deals somewhere else. The fate of the second 2 Mistrals is very much dependent on the "behind the curtain" deal being made between Russia/EU/US/Kiev/Donbass over the whole Ukraine affair. It is a leverage Russia is using (just like the Georgia case in 2008).
    The future will tell.
    Personally, I don't like Russia buying any military hardware from abroad. However, if it will help Russia and the anti-Kiev Ukrainians get a better deal, than I am all for it.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16054
    Points : 16685
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Defense Ministry will receive nearly 150 attack helicopters Ka-52 "Alligator" 2020

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:50 am

    Strange, seems like less than a three squadrons. But there will be four mistrals!

    Most likely they will have 8 Ka-52K helos on each Mistral carrier, so with the first two I suspect 32 would offer a standard load with reserve aircraft for two full loads for the first two ships.

    There will be no more than two Mistrals unless EU policies change significantly and they turn their back on the US.

    I wouldn't try to second guess the Russian Navy... they have said they will try the first two vessels and decide if they are useful before deciding if they want the other two. I rather expect they will want the other two that will likely be further adapted to their needs and be more Russian than the first two.

    I've checked on the internet, seems there will be only 8 Ka-52's per a Mistral plus 8 multi-purpose helicopters, as one ship can take only 16 helicopters. 32/8=4. But still there must be a reserve copters, I think

    The capacity is 16 helos per vessel but there are three types of helos it will operate as standard. The Ka-52K of course as a standard fighter/attack helo with AESA radar. The Ka-29 combat transport helo for troop transport and landing zone suppression with unguided rockets, cannon, and ATGMs. Finally the little Ka-226T light weight multirole helicopter with removable pods for different purposes.

    In practise a Mistral might carry 6 Ka-52K, 6 Ka-29M, and 6 Ka-226T helos (the light weight Ka-226T allowing more helos to be carried).

    Personally, I don't like Russia buying any military hardware from abroad. However, if it will help Russia and the anti-Kiev Ukrainians get a better deal, than I am all for it.

    Russia in my opinion can't afford to cut ties with France... I would love for there to be a Russian designed helicopter carrier that could be built in 2-3 years and be a proven mature design but that just isn't going to happen. The four Mistral carriers will be excellent for the Russian Navy and excellent support vessels that will make Japan think twice and three times about taking their northern territories back by force. It will demand infrastructure and spending in the far east... which needs it, and it will demand spending in support vessels and infrastructure.

    Equally the Ka-226T uses French engines.. which will make the aircraft more appealing on the world market... it is a clever design that deserves success. experience with working with Thales of France has been very beneficial to Russia and there is no reason to stop this... IMHO.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 10069
    Points : 10559
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:19 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry plans to buy 32 Ka-52K helicopters for Mistral ships

    Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov visited the Progress aircraft manufacturing company, based in the city of Arsenyevsk, Primorye Territory, where he discussed potential acquisitions of Kamov Ka-52K ship-based helicopters for Mistral-class helicopter carriers, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a press release, seen by Interfax-AVN on Tuesday.

    "The plant is in a stable position and has a long-term contract on the delivery of 146 Ka-52 Alligator helicopters for the period up to 2020. Further plans include [the sale of] 32 ship-based helicopters," Borisov was quoted as saying by the ministry's press service. When commenting on a contract with Russia's Navy, the deputy minister said that the "Navy is expecting Ka-52 helicopters, which will be placed on board the Mistral-type ships currently under construction."

    orisov arrived in the Primorye Territory on June 24 to inspect the implementation of earlier signed defense contracts and analyze the production capabilities of local defense industry enterprises. The deputy minister positively assessed the way the Progress aircraft manufacturing company, which is a member of the Russian Helicopters Holding, has been fulfilling this year's defense contracts.

    Borisov visited the plant's sections where Ka-52 Alligator helicopters are produced, saying that the enterprise's work on the 2014 defense contracts has been successful and it is prepared to tackle next year's defense orders. During the visit, Borisov and the plant's management discussed a new deal on Ka-52K helicopter deliveries in 2015 and 2016. "We paid great attention to import replacement issues, including as far as components received from Ukraine as concerned. These issues are not critical. They can be resolved quite painlessly," Borisov said.

    t the end of his visit, the deputy minister watched a demonstration flight by a Ka-52 Alligator helicopter. Ka-52 is a new-generation helicopter that can be used in any weather and at night as well as in the daytime. It is a two-seat modification of the Ka-50 Black Shark attack helicopter and can destroy armored vehicles and low-speed air targets, carry out reconnaissance missions and coordinate groups of combat helicopters. The Progress plant is currently preparing to launch the production of Ka-52K helicopters for the Russian Navy. Progress is a hi-tech enterprise that specializes in manufacturing advanced helicopters.
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6318
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Viktor on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:19 pm

    We have numbers for 2014 -  thumbsup 

    Three first Ka-52K deck will be transferred to the Navy by the end of the year

    Sponsored content

    Re: Ka-52K for Russian Navy

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:16 pm