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    Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  hoom on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:16 pm

    Calibre launches at Nusra from Med

    “Today, at 10:55 a.m., Zelyony Dol and Serpukhov small-sized missile ships of the Black Sea Fleet carried out three launches of sea-based Kalibr cruise missiles on al-Nusra Front targets in Syria from the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea during combat maneuvering,” the ministry said.
    I see 2 launches there, I guess the 3rd from the other ship?
    Rebels reported 3* 'Tochka' hits.

    Looks like a hot launch, I thought UKSK used soft launch?
    Really brings home how big the missiles are compared to the ship Shocked
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:01 pm

    hoom wrote:.................

    Looks like a hot launch, I thought UKSK used soft launch?
    Really brings home how big the missiles are compared to the ship Shocked

    Yup, when it comes to firepower-per-ton no other non-nuclear vessel comes even close to these bad boys. And those cruise missile launchers run entire height of the ship.

    But this is nothing compared to what 22800 Karakurts will be. They will be packing same UKSK launcher but will be 150 tons lighter and 14 meters shorter. Glorious madness!!! thumbsup Cool
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    medo

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  medo on Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:47 am

    Black Sea fleet ships now also launch cruise missiles on ground targets, not only Caspian fleet. And again it is done by Buyan-M ships, which is now proven LACM corvette. Now only Grigorovich frigate need to launch cruise missiles as Dagestan frigate launch its missiles too. I think NATO have now quite bad feeling about those small Buyan-M LACM corvettes in Mediterranean sea, specially as they could carry nuclear armed cruise missiles.

    chicken

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  chicken on Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:21 pm

    hoom wrote:Calibre launches at Nusra from Med

    Looks like a hot launch, I thought UKSK used soft launch?
    Really brings home how big the missiles are compared to the ship Shocked

    The Cold launch looked like a 91R1 antisubmarine missile. The LACM launched last time looked hot launched too.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  hoom on Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:57 pm

    Pretty neat trick to be able to support both launch types.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:30 pm

    medo wrote:Black Sea fleet ships now also launch cruise missiles on ground targets, not only Caspian fleet. And again it is done by Buyan-M ships, which is now proven LACM corvette. Now only Grigorovich frigate need to launch cruise missiles as Dagestan frigate launch its missiles too. I think NATO have now quite bad feeling about those small Buyan-M LACM corvettes in Mediterranean sea, specially as they could carry nuclear armed cruise missiles.

    With the amount of Buyans and Karakurts that will be coming on line soon I don't think that there is a need for Grigorovich (or any other frigate for that matter) to carry land attack cruise missiles anymore. They can comfortably focus solely on anti ship role and be fully equipped with Onix missiles.

    Although they could use this opportunity to fire couple of them just for brag rights.
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    medo

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:42 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    medo wrote:Black Sea fleet ships now also launch cruise missiles on ground targets, not only Caspian fleet. And again it is done by Buyan-M ships, which is now proven LACM corvette. Now only Grigorovich frigate need to launch cruise missiles as Dagestan frigate launch its missiles too. I think NATO have now quite bad feeling about those small Buyan-M LACM corvettes in Mediterranean sea, specially as they could carry nuclear armed cruise missiles.

    With the amount of Buyans and Karakurts that will be coming on line soon I don't think that there is a need  for Grigorovich (or any other frigate for that matter) to carry land attack cruise missiles anymore. They can comfortably focus solely on anti ship role and be fully equipped with Onix missiles.

    Although they could use this opportunity to fire couple of them just for brag rights.

    Actually, it will be still good for Grigorovich frigates and 22160 patrol ships to carry some LACMs as they are better suited for blue water long time patroling than Buyans and Karakurts, which could than stay mostly in Black sea. Constant presence of Grigorovich frigate or 22160 patrol ship in Mediterranian sea armed with LACMs will keep whole Europe in check.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:12 pm

    medo wrote:........

    Actually, it will be still good for Grigorovich frigates and 22160 patrol ships to carry some LACMs as they are better suited for blue water long time patroling than Buyans and Karakurts, which could than stay mostly in Black sea. Constant presence of Grigorovich frigate or 22160 patrol ship in Mediterranian sea armed with LACMs will keep whole Europe in check.

    22160 Patrol ships should and will carry LACMs. But Grigorovich and other frigates not so much.

    Reason is that, unlike Buyans, Karakurts are fully capable blue water vessels that are also pretty fast as well. They are relatively easy to build, don't cost too much and will be built in large numbers as well. Their endurance is still 14 days but that is easily solved with one supply vessel.

    In fact first five Karakurts built by Pella will be going to North Fleet. Those are some rough seas.

    So, Patrol Ships and Buyans- LACMs

    Karakurts- LACMs (and even some AShM if needed depending on environment)

    Corvettes, Frigates and everything else- AShM.

    Lider destroyers are different story, they will be big enough to carry literally everything.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:15 am

    The beauty of the designs is that the role can be chosen when loading the UKSK launchers... land attack, anti ship, or anti Sub are all options...


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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:58 pm

    6th unit of the Buyan-M class, Vishnyy Volchek, has been launched.

    http://sudostroenie.info/novosti/16864.html
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  hoom on Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:11 pm

    Apparently there has been a contract for another 3* signed
    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F107/
    On Wednesday, 7 September, at the international military technical forum "Army 2016" signed a contract for the construction of small missile ships 21631.
    ...
    The sixth ship of the series "Vishny Volochek" Navy will receive in 2017. After that Tatarstan will build a series of three more "Buyan-M".
    A batch for the Baltic perhaps? Or more filling out for the BSF?
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    medo

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  medo on Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:29 pm

    hoom wrote:Apparently there has been a contract for another 3* signed
    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F107/
    On Wednesday, 7 September, at the international military technical forum "Army 2016" signed a contract for the construction of small missile ships 21631.
    ...
    The sixth ship of the series "Vishny Volochek" Navy will receive in 2017. After that Tatarstan will build a series of three more "Buyan-M".
    A batch for the Baltic perhaps? Or more filling out for the BSF?

    Most probably for Caspian fleet, which was supposed to receive 6 Buyan-M corvettes from the beggining.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  franco on Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:22 pm

    hoom wrote:Apparently there has been a contract for another 3* signed
    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F107/
    On Wednesday, 7 September, at the international military technical forum "Army 2016" signed a contract for the construction of small missile ships 21631.
    ...
    The sixth ship of the series "Vishny Volochek" Navy will receive in 2017. After that Tatarstan will build a series of three more "Buyan-M".
    A batch for the Baltic perhaps? Or more filling out for the BSF?

    I'm not sure if new but could be just the official signing of a planned purchase. There were 9 planned Buyan-M.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:34 pm

    franco wrote:
    hoom wrote:Apparently there has been a contract for another 3* signed
    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A4%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F107/
    On Wednesday, 7 September, at the international military technical forum "Army 2016" signed a contract for the construction of small missile ships 21631.
    ...
    The sixth ship of the series "Vishny Volochek" Navy will receive in 2017. After that Tatarstan will build a series of three more "Buyan-M".
    A batch for the Baltic perhaps? Or more filling out for the BSF?

    I'm not sure if new but could be just the official signing of a planned purchase. There were 9 planned Buyan-M.

    Was 12 actually. Unless they cut the order down to 9.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  franco on Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:07 am

    Believe the other 3 are the original Buyan gun boats.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:14 am

    franco wrote:Believe the other 3 are the original Buyan gun boats.

    no total Buyan-M planned was 12 with the first three the idea was 15.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:06 pm


    Would it be an option to deliver these three new Buyans to Caspian fleet and then transfer two Gepard class frigates from Caspian to Black Sea fleet?

    It's not like there are fleets of enemy warships in Caspian for them to fight and even if some surface vessels do show up there are plenty of Tarantuls over there to handle it.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Would it be an option to deliver these three new Buyans to Caspian fleet and then transfer two Gepard class frigates from Caspian to Black Sea fleet?

    It's not like there are fleets of enemy warships in Caspian for them to fight and even if some surface vessels do show up there are plenty of Tarantuls over there to handle it.

    whats the point? Buyan-M class are armed with Kalibr systems, Gepard only with Kh-35, Only Dagestan has Kalibr


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    Ned86

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  Ned86 on Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:56 pm

    George1 wrote:
    whats the point? Buyan-M class are armed with Kalibr systems, Gepard only with Kh-35, Only Dagestan has Kalibr

    there is very high probability that Anti ship version of Kalibr missile already exist and that it can be installed onto Buyan M as well as Gepard class.
    If we haven't seen 3M-54 anti ship version in action on youtube, that doesn't necessary mean that it does not exist or it is not planed at all.

    I also think that Gepard class is ideal for Black Sea fleet...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:51 pm

    George1 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Would it be an option to deliver these three new Buyans to Caspian fleet and then transfer two Gepard class frigates from Caspian to Black Sea fleet?

    It's not like there are fleets of enemy warships in Caspian for them to fight and even if some surface vessels do show up there are plenty of Tarantuls over there to handle it.

    whats the point? Buyan-M class are armed with Kalibr systems, Gepard only with Kh-35, Only Dagestan has Kalibr

    Well whole point is that they should have anti ship missiles. Kalibrs are great but BSF needs some anti ship and anti sub hardware as well.

    Tatarstan does not have Kalibr launchers but it can be upgraded like Dagestan. And Oniks missiles can be loaded into Kalibr launchers. So you have two frigates with 8 supersonic AShMs and 8 subsonic ones. And they have 4 torpedo tubes each.

    Land attack missile platforms will not be in short supply since there will be 6 Buyans for Black Sea Fleet and Karakurts are practically going into mass production.

    If they move Gepards to BSF they will have 5 new frigates overall (3 Grigorevich + 2 Gepards), 6 Missile ships (Buyan-Ms) 6 submarines (Kilo subs) and as many Karakurts and Offshore Patrol Vessels that they will get.

    Those will be decent numbers and more than enough to keep Black Sea Fleet in good condition until rest of Grigorevich and later Gorshkov frigates start coming along.

    Caspian Fleet can handle anything with those 3 extra Buyans to fill in for Gepards who are not doing much there anyway that Buyans can't cope with.  




    Also, I am loving the fresh paintjob on Caspian Fleet ships. It really makes those Soviet era ships look pretty. thumbsup

    Question: are those Uran missile launchers on that Grisha corvette at 1:30?


    marat

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  marat on Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:59 pm

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:16 pm

    marat wrote:i think that Tatarstan is on 1:30.

    http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2210777

    Right, my bad.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  hoom on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:55 am

    I don't think there is much point putting the Gepards in BSF, they don't really have much of anti-air: Tatarstan has an Osa, Dagestan a Palma.
    I think I'd take the Buyan-Ms for BSF: maximised UKSK & unified logistics.

    Saw suggestion these may be ice strengthened, which I understand would not be useful for Caspian, maybe for BSF.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:16 pm

    The Caspian sea can freeze in winter...


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    medo

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    Re: Project 21631: Buyan-M corvette

    Post  medo on Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:56 pm

    Ice strengthened ships could be for Baltic fleet. Neither Black Sea nether Caspian Sea freeze.

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