Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project Kalina Submarine

    Share

    Russian Patriot
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1168
    Points : 2062
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 25
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 pm

    MOSCOW, March 19 (RIA Novosti) – A prospective series of Russia’s new fifth-generation conventional submarine equipped with an advanced air-independent propulsion system will be designated the Kalina-class, the commander of the country's navy said Wednesday.
    “Russia is currently designing a fifth-generation conventional submarine, dubbed Project Kalina, which will be fitted with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system,” Adm. Viktor Chirkov said.
    “Our industry promises to develop this AIP system by 2017 and build the first boat fitted with such a system by 2018,” Chirkov said.
    The admiral earlier said that the new AIP system could be initially tested on the only operational Lada-class diesel-electric submarine in service with the navy, the St. Petersburg, which is undergoing sea trials in the Barents Sea after a series of design changes.



    Air-independent power plants offer significant advantages over diesel-electric submarines, which must surface regularly to recharge their batteries, and nuclear submarines, which must continually run noisy pumps to cool their reactors.
    Submarines with such systems can stay submerged for weeks at a time and are already in operation with a number of navies around the world. The United States has so far not employed the technology, however, in favor of the longer endurance and range of nuclear submarines.

    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140319/188575985/Russian-Navy-Unveils-New-Class-of-Submarines.html

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9446
    Points : 9938
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:44 pm

    Construction of 'Anaerobic' Non-Nuclear Subs to Begin in 2017 - Russian Navy

    ST. PETERSBURG, August 28 (RIA Novosti) – Russia will begin constructing a new generation of nonatomic submarines equipped with “anaerobic systems,” Navy Commander Adm. Viktor Chirkov said Thursday.

    “Of course, the construction of diesel-electric submarines will continue. Today, we are talking about non-atomic submarines. Starting from 2017, [the construction of] a new series [of submarines] with an anaerobic system will begin and the Admiralteisky Wharf will take on the construction,” Chirkov said.

    The main advantage of the air-independent energy system is an increase in the ship’s speed and the ability for it to remain submerged when recharging its batteries as opposed to surfacing to recharge them.

    Meanwhile, the construction of diesel-electric submarines in Russia is in progress. The third in the series of six Varshavyanka-class submarines, built for the Crimea-based Black Sea Fleet, is expected to be launched Thursday in St. Petersburg.

    The construction of all six submarines is to be completed by 2016. They are almost undetectable when submerged and feature advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and the ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets. The submarines are mainly intended for anti-ship and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    "Kalina" with anaerobic propulsion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:52 pm

    The Russian Federation has developed a draft PL "Kalina" with anaerobic propulsion




    St. PETERSBURG, 1 Jul — RIA Novosti. CDB "ruby" by order of the defense Ministry has developed a preliminary design non-nuclear submarine type "Kalina" with anaerobic (air) power plant, reported RIA Novosti on Wednesday the Director of the Department of defense procurement of the United shipbuilding Corporation Anatoly Shelmov.


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9446
    Points : 9938
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:21 am

    Navy: the fifth generation of submarines "Kalina" will receive the best quality of the projects 636 and 677

    According to Vice-Admiral Alexander Fedotenkova, currently underway preparatory work on the design of the submarine project


    PETERSBURG, January 21. / TASS /. A fundamentally new design non-nuclear submarine "Kalina", which will be implemented in the best quality of the projects 636 and 677, prepared in Russia. This was announced on Thursday, Deputy Chief of the Russian Navy, Vice-Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov.
    "Preparatory works are underway on the design principle of the new project non-nuclear submarine" Kalina ", which will be implemented in the best quality of the projects 636 and 677," - he said.
    Zamglavkoma noted that the Russian Navy has not yet decided on the spot to build six submarines 636 project for the Pacific Fleet.
    However, he stressed that the construction of a series of non-nuclear submarines of "Lada" is not planned to stop.
    "Based on the results of trial operation of submarines" Kronstadt "and" Great Luke "will be determined by the need for further quantitative Navy Project 677" Lada ". Termination of the construction at the moment is not considered", - he said.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2603189&usg=ALkJrhh0cRj-qp3jHGAvWAQXDpGk4LcdAQ


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:01 pm

    Maybe they want to see if Kalina will be soon available or will be kinda "Groshkov acceptance process" so next stopgap after 636 will be Lada.

    Book.
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 667
    Points : 730
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Book. on Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:44 pm

    I like idea 5000+ ton kilo


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9446
    Points : 9938
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:39 am

    Development work on the construction of a new Russian submarine "Kalina" may begin as early as 2017.

    http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%A0%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BD1/


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9446
    Points : 9938
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:44 pm

    The project is the latest non-nuclear submarine "Kalina" has been developed

    The project is not yet approved by the Ministry of Defense. The main features of this project will be a full-time anaerobic (airindependent) power plant and cruise missiles "Caliber", said the representative of the military industrial complex.

    MOSCOW, March 18 - RIA Novosti. Project newest non-nuclear submarine of the 5th generation of "Kalina" is developed, but not yet approved by the Ministry of Defence (Navy), told RIA Novosti on Friday, a senior official of the Military Industrial Complex (MIC).

    Earlier in the day, Deputy Commander of the Russian Navy, Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov told reporters that the construction of a series of non-nuclear submarines of the fifth generation with airindependent power plant will begin in Russia in the near future.

    "Project" Kalina "the development of CDB ME" Rubin "is already there, but it is not endorsed by or agreed with the Ministry of Defence", - said the source.

    However, he stressed that the main features of this project will be a full-time anaerobic (airindependent) power plant and cruise missiles "Caliber".

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160318/1392151675.html&usg=ALkJrhgXb1J08EkO9xz1aIwPBNOyDdcokA


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:05 pm

    The construction of submarines "Kalina" will be part of the new armament program of the Russian Federation

    MOSCOW, 18 Mar — RIA Novosti. The construction of modern non-nuclear submarines (nuclear submarines) of the project "Kalina" and their number will be determined by the new state armaments program (GPV) Russia till 2025, has informed RIA Novosti news Agency on Friday the official representative of "United shipbuilding Corporation" (USC).
    The project "Kalina" design CDB me "Rubin" already, but not yet endorsed by or coordinated with the defense Ministry. The main features of this project will be regular anaerobic (air) power plant (VNEU) and cruise missiles "Calibre".
    "The number of units ordered non-nuclear submarines of the project "Kalina" will be determined in the formation of a new TAG. The question of the construction of the submarines will depend on the willingness of staff VNEW to be set up with the Federal targeted programme of the defence industry", — said the Agency interlocutor.
    A new GPV up to 2025 is planned to be adopted in the current year.


    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160318/1392182730.html

    George1 wrote:The project is the latest non-nuclear submarine "Kalina" has been developed

    The project is not yet approved by the Ministry of Defense. The main features of this project will be a full-time anaerobic (airindependent) power plant and cruise missiles "Caliber", said the representative of the military industrial complex.

    MOSCOW, March 18 - RIA Novosti. Project newest non-nuclear submarine of the 5th generation of "Kalina" is developed, but not yet approved by the Ministry of Defence (Navy), told RIA Novosti on Friday, a senior official of the Military Industrial Complex (MIC).

    Earlier in the day, Deputy Commander of the Russian Navy, Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov told reporters that the construction of a series of non-nuclear submarines of the fifth generation with airindependent power plant will begin in Russia in the near future.



    Well thy say development so implicite there might be rather based on Lada not a Lada with AIP. I hope since Lada was designed in final years of USSR and Kalina will enter production in 2020s... hope new materials, new avionics, new shape? engines?
    ...

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9446
    Points : 9938
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:30 pm

    Project Kalina: Russia’s Fifth-Generation Diesel-Electric Submarine

    Russia is set to start construction of its new fifth-generation Kalina-class diesel-electric submarine in the “imminent future,” earlier than previously announced, according to Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Vice-Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov; here is what the new project is all about.

    The construction of new fifth-generation non-nuclear submarines dubbed Project Kalina, equipped with air-independent propulsion systems, will apparently begin earlier than planned, in the “imminent future.”

    The Central Construction Bureau of Maritime Technology (TsKB) ‘Rubin’ that was commissioned by the Defense Ministry, has developed a draft new non-nuclear submarine, Alexander Fedotenkov said in an interview with the Strategy program on Rossiya 24 news channel on Friday.

    “These are new-generation submarines. They are currently being developed,” Fedotenkov said. “The construction of these submarines will start in the imminent future.”

    Earlier reports suggested that the construction would only start after 2020.

    The new submarine will combine the best characteristics of Project 636 (Varshavyanka) and Project 677 (Lada) submarines and is set to be equipped with an air independent propulsion (AIP) system.

    The system offers significant advantages over diesel-electric submarines, which need to surface regularly to recharge batteries, and nuclear submarines, which must constantly run noisy pumps to cool their reactors.

    Submarines with such systems can stay submerged for weeks at a time and are potentially stealthier, the system is already in operation with a number of navies around the world.

    According to some estimates, with the new AIP system installed, the Kalina would be able to stay underwater for about twenty-five days.

    Earlier reports suggested that Russia’s Rubin Design Bureau expected the Kalina design to be completed by 2017 and the first Kalina to be fitted with AIP by 2018.

    New AIP system could be initially tested on the operational Lada-class diesel-electric submarine in service with the Russian Navy, the Sankt Peterburg (St. Petersburg).

    Meanwhile, the two last Lada-class Project 677 submarines will be delivered as scheduled — in 2018 and 2019. Afterwards Moscow will terminate the Project 677 Lada-class in favor of Project Kalina.

    The Lada-class, or Project 677, is a fourth-generation diesel-electric submarine based on the older Kilo-class submarine and does not currently incorporate an AIP.

    China has been negotiating with Russia to purchase four Lada-class submarines from the Rubin Design Bureau based in St Petersburg. Beijing hoped those submarines could be refitted with Chinese engines and an electronic fire-control system.

    Reports suggest that variants of the fifth-generation submarines may also be sold to India and China.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160322/1036746542/russia-kalina-class-submarine.html#ixzz43dsL2Mol


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:47 am

    Source: in 2018 will provide the latest non-nuclear submarine of the project "Kalina"


    MOSCOW, 28 Jun — RIA Novosti. The newest non-nuclear submarine of the project "Kalina" (the fifth generation) will be laid in 2018, told RIA Novosti on Tuesday, a senior source in the Navy (the Navy).

    "The project "Kalina" we are certainly topical, this project should be very successful. Head boat lay in 2018," — said the Agency interlocutor.
    According to him, the laying up of the boats is planned for "Admiralty shipyards" in St. Petersburg.
    Currently, this facility built nuclear submarines of the fourth generation of project 636 for black sea fleet. It is also planned to build six submarines for the Pacific fleet.

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160628/1453568710.html#ixzz4CrkRecnf

    PapaDragon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3681
    Points : 3793
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:50 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Source: in 2018 will provide the latest non-nuclear submarine of the project "Kalina"


    .........................

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160628/1453568710.html#ixzz4CrkRecnf

    Guys, what are the chances of Kalina having vertical launch tubes (UKSK)? After show Caspian fleet put up I think it would make sense.

    I know they can use torpedo tubes for cruise missiles but having separate system would make more sense. Torpedo tubes should be used for torpedoes.

    Or they could at least enlarge storage space in the front to fit more torpedoes/missiles.

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:32 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Source: in 2018 will provide the latest non-nuclear submarine of the project "Kalina"


    .........................

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160628/1453568710.html#ixzz4CrkRecnf

    Guys, what are the chances of Kalina having vertical launch tubes (UKSK)? After show Caspian fleet put up I think it would make sense.  

    I know they can use torpedo tubes for cruise missiles but having separate system would make more sense. Torpedo tubes should be used for torpedoes.

    Or they could at least enlarge storage space in the front to fit more torpedoes/missiles.  

    maybe Kalina will be modular? Lada is in fact updated Soviet design maybe Kalina will bring something pretty new ?


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:53 pm

    I would suspect experience with Kalibr and Klub and potential for Onyx and Zircon would make a UKSK launcher quite likely on the new sub... it adds serious capability to any vessel it is fitted to, and I suspect they will only expand its capabilities in the future...

    Things like UAVs or UCAVs that can be launched in peacetime as tools that can go places no manned vessels can go, and of course their sea surface and subsurface equivalents could be developed and fitted to these tubes too.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Rmf
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 381
    Points : 376
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:47 pm

    very interesting video , 3 options for increase in underwater range. LI -batteries that store more energy , reformer that extracts hydrogen from diesel so no hydrogen storage needed for Fuel cell and more oxygen can be stored, and steam engine using fuel+ stored oxygen,  and ocean for cooling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqSMs9xTNyQ

    i guess pumpjet is not used in conventional subs because they already move at lower tactical speeds where there is no danger of cavitation compared to nuclear, and because pumpjet is draggy.
    china lareayd has type 032 largest conventional submarine which is over 6.000t submerged.

    Big_Gazza
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 510
    Points : 534
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:45 am

    Rmf wrote:very interesting video , 3 options for increase in underwater range. LI -batteries that store more energy , reformer that extracts hydrogen from diesel so no hydrogen storage needed for Fuel cell and more oxygen can be stored, and steam engine using fuel+ stored oxygen,  and ocean for cooling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqSMs9xTNyQ

    i guess pumpjet is not used in conventional subs because they already move at lower tactical speeds where there is no danger of cavitation compared to nuclear, and because pumpjet is draggy.
    china lareayd has type 032 largest conventional submarine which is over 6.000t submerged.

    Its generally believed that Russian AIP efforts are going towards using a diesel-fed reformator feeding a fuel cell, which accounts for the fairly protracted development. Its a good technology, and well worth the wait.

    Agreed re the use of pump-jets on SSKs. It's not worth it, as the trials on Alrosa have shown.

    Rmf
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 381
    Points : 376
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Rmf on Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:43 pm

    `well hydrogen is to be avoided as stored - risky ,hard to contain , boils off, large volume ,and mass of tanks.
    oxygen benefits from high density , easier storage temperatures , low boil off technologies (developed for space) less then 1% per month , you can use deep cooled slush form to buy some time ,etc...

    so they used small steam turbine or sterling engine to burn diesel fuel and oxygen in todays AIP.

    not bad , using ocean water 4C degrees for cooling part means its ok. but your efficiency is below 40%.

    with this new fuel cell that extracts hydrogen from diesel, you get to over 70% and -no noise ,vibrations ,moving parts, complexity etc....

    fuel cell use chemical - electrical cycle so its inherently better ,then chemical-heat-mechanical-electric , steam turbines.

    Big_Gazza
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 510
    Points : 534
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:02 am

    Rmf wrote:`well hydrogen is to be avoided as stored - risky ,hard to contain , boils off,  large volume ,and mass of tanks.
    oxygen benefits from high density , easier storage temperatures , low boil off technologies (developed for space)  less then 1% per month , you can use deep cooled slush form to buy some time ,etc...

    so they used small steam turbine or sterling engine to burn diesel fuel and oxygen in todays AIP.

    not bad , using ocean water 4C degrees for cooling part means its ok. but your efficiency is below 40%.

    with this new fuel cell that extracts hydrogen from diesel, you get to over 70% and -no noise ,vibrations ,moving parts, complexity etc....

    fuel cell use chemical - electrical cycle so its inherently better ,then chemical-heat-mechanical-electric , steam turbines.

    Agree 100%, and fuel cells are the penultimate power generation technology for SSKs.  Any form of combustion engine/turbine technology is the wrong end of the stick as they are inherent noise generators (though acoustic dampening tech has come a LONG way, especially the field of noise suppression by active wave superposition).  The difficulty is being able to build them compact so that a useful energy output can be achieved within the limited confines of a manned submersible, and to make them reliable.

    Rmf
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 381
    Points : 376
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Rmf on Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:19 pm

    ...if they are using luquid oxygen there for AIP fuell cell, they could use cooling for high temperature superconductors for propeller engine - significant reduction in mass and weight + 99% efficient from 1 rpm - 600 rpm.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:50 am

    Smile

    RMF... you talk about storing hydrogen on board a sub as problematic and then you talk about storing oxygen without mentioning it is vastly more problematic and outright dangerous.

    `well hydrogen is to be avoided as stored - risky ,hard to contain , boils off, large volume ,and mass of tanks.
    oxygen benefits from high density , easier storage temperatures , low boil off technologies (developed for space) less then 1% per month , you can use deep cooled slush form to buy some time ,etc...

    Pure hydrogen is totally inert... it is only hazardous if you get the mix of hydrogen and oxygen correct to get fire. You need very very specific conditions to get an explosion... surround the hydrogen tank with nitrogen and it should be totally safe.

    Pure oxygen will burn at the smallest spark and you wont be able to put it out. It turns anything that will burn at normal air pressure and normal temperatures into an explosive under pressure in an oxygen rich environment.

    Incredibly dangerous.

    Regarding the process of extracting the needed chemicals from Diesel... first of all it is genius because every port able to support a submarine will already have the infrastructure to supply diesel... while a hydrogen fuel cell AIP requires pure hydrogen which means all new infrastructure for all of your ports... and foreign ports you want your subs to operate from.

    Note I am not saying you are wrong about storing hydrogen, but storing oxygen is vastly more complicated and lead to use of things like HTP for slightly safer storage.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Rmf
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 381
    Points : 376
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:44 pm

    usualy for supeconductors liquid nitrogen is used, and its used anyway as surface layer for liqud oxygen storage and tank flushing.
    hydrogen is vastly more complicated to store and contain.
    if sub is using cryogenics anyway it could store some extra nitrogen for submarine propeller motor. that motor would be very small. liquid nytrogen is -200c liquid and oxygen is -220c.
    http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/01/365-megawatt-superconducting-motor.html

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:25 am

    But the point in terms of danger, Nitrogen is inert and apart from being under pressure and very cold is no real danger to the crew. Hydrogen is not much worse in the sense that it needs oxygen to burn and underwater there is not much available oxygen... especially if stored outside the internal hull and surrounded by water.

    Oxygen on the other hand is always dangerous and the smallest spark can start a fire that very few things on earth or in space or in water could stop.

    A fire needs fuel and oxygen and heat... water normally is excellent for putting out something like paper on fire because it stops oxygen getting to the flame, it cools down the hot material and can turn fuel materials like wood or paper into non fuel materials that wont burn unless extremely hot.

    A LOX fire combines fuel and oxygen in one in such a vigorous fire that even water wont stop it. LOX will burn underwater or in a vacuum... that is why LOX is a component of rocket fuel... liquid hydrogen practically explodes in LOX.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Rmf
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 381
    Points : 376
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Rmf on Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:16 pm

    point is oxygen is a must for any AIP so i really dont know what your babble is about....

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:32 am

    My problem is that if you think Hydrogen is a problem to store and handle then LOX is a PITA.

    The best compromise is to store it as HTP and "release" it when needed.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Rmf
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 381
    Points : 376
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Rmf on Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:03 pm

    yeah HTP in submarines and torpedoes was always a great idea -not Rolling Eyes Shocked Mad No

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project Kalina Submarine

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 6:44 am


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:44 am