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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

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    franco

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    MOSCOW, September 7. /TASS/. By 2020

    Post  franco on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:28 am

    MOSCOW, September 7. /TASS/. By 2020, Russia plans to scrap 4,000 outdated Soviet-made tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, not 10,000 as was originally planned, Chief of the Main Armored Directorate of the Russian Defence Ministry Lt. Gen. Alexander Shevchenko said.

    "Initially, when the program was drafted, it was planned that about 10,000 Soviet-made armored fighting vehicles (AFVs) stored in warehouses will be scrapped," Shevchenko said.

    "However, in line with changes in the international situation, the increase in combat skills of servicemen of the Russian armed forces, growing patriotism of Russian citizens and the appearance of new technical and technological solutions for deep upgrade allowing to turn outdated equipment into modern one, we had to review our plans," the official added. "At present, the number of armored fighting vehicles to be scrapped in line with the program until 2020 stands at about 4,000 such vehicles.".


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:25 pm

    franco wrote:MOSCOW, September 7. /TASS/. By 2020, Russia plans to scrap 4,000 outdated Soviet-made tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, not 10,000 as was originally planned, Chief of the Main Armored Directorate of the Russian Defence Ministry Lt. Gen. Alexander Shevchenko said.

    "Initially, when the program was drafted, it was planned that about 10,000 Soviet-made armored fighting vehicles (AFVs) stored in warehouses will be scrapped," Shevchenko said.

    "However, in line with changes in the international situation, the increase in combat skills of servicemen of the Russian armed forces, growing patriotism of Russian citizens and the appearance of new technical and technological solutions for deep upgrade allowing to turn outdated equipment into modern one, we had to review our plans," the official added. "At present, the number of armored fighting vehicles to be scrapped in line with the program until 2020 stands at about 4,000 such vehicles.".



    Probably find that the reduction in number is also related to Syria. Russia has been arming them with reserve equipment and once Syria is secured they will have to rebuild their forces with most likely but older upgraded equipment instead of new equipment to keep costs down for example instead of buying new built bmp-3 they will end up buying upgraded bmp-1&2
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    George1

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:36 am

    franco can we have an update on tank numbers per type?? thanks

    T-90:
    T-80:
    T-72B3:
    T-72B/BA:


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    franco

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:20 am

    George1 wrote:franco can we have an update on tank numbers per type?? thanks

    T-90:
    T-80:
    T-72B3:
    T-72B/BA:

    ~ 350 T-90A
    ~ 250 T-80U
    ~ 300 T-80BVM (in process)
    ~ 1300 T-72B3 (present contracts, more??)
    ~ 200 T-72BA
    ~ 100 T-14 (in process)
    ~ 1,000 T-72B
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:14 pm

    What is the future plans of Russian tank force up to 2030?????

    A mix of:
    T-72BM3
    T-90
    T-14
    T-80 (artic based areas)
    ????????????????

    Or will be T-14 and T-90 based??????
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    0nillie0

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  0nillie0 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:25 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:What is the future plans of Russian tank force up to 2030?????

    A mix of:
    T-72BM3
    T-90
    T-14
    T-80  (artic based areas)
    ????????????????

    Or will be T-14 and T-90 based??????

    Assuming no major conflict involving Russian armor breaks out, and the economic situation of Russia remains roughly the same as it is now, IMHO we can expect the T-72B3 and T-72B3M tanks te remain in "frontline duty" service beyond 2025.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    What is the future plans of Russian tank force up to 2030?????

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:04 pm

    0nillie0 wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:What is the future plans of Russian tank force up to 2030?????

    Assuming no major conflict involving Russian armor breaks out, and the economic situation of Russia remains roughly the same as it is now, IMHO we can expect the T-72B3 and T-72B3M tanks te remain in "frontline duty" service beyond 2025.

    Thus answering the original question: IMHO T-72 first then T-90 ( both with Proryv turret) will be gradually replaced by Armatas. And who know light tanks on Kurganets?
    With T-80 not sure ho long would it take to make Armata's power-pack for arctic.
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    franco

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:19 am

    Contracts of the Ministry of Defense of Russia for the purchase of T-90M and BMPT tanks

       As reported on the web resource otvaga2004.mybb.ru , published on the page of the National tender portal tenderGuru.ru, the tender documentation of NPK Uralvagonzavod discloses some details of contracts concluded by this corporation on August 24, 2017 with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for the supply of T- 90M and BMPT tank support vehicles.

    Recall that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and NPK Uralvagonzavod signed on August 24, 2017 at the Third International Military Technical Forum "Army-2017" contracts for the supply of new T-90M tanks and BMPT vehicles, as well as contracts for major repairs and modernization of tanks T-72B, T-80BV and T-90. The total amount of contracts amounted to more than 24 billion rubles.

       Now the tender documentation of NPK Uralvagonzavod has been published to ensure the implementation of these contracts for the purchase from the "sole supplier":

       2100-2018-02073. Performing works on the author's support and technical assistance in ensuring the manufacture and shipment in 2018 of 12 units of products 199 per GDZ

     2100-2018-02074. Performing works on the author's support and technical assistance in ensuring the overhaul of 20 tanks of the T-90 type with upgrading to the level of T-90M in accordance with the State Defense Committee of 2018-2019

    2100-2018-02075. Performing works on author support and technical assistance in ensuring the manufacture and shipment of 10 units of 188M products (T-90M tank) in accordance with the State Defense Order 2018-2019

       Thus, as it appears from this documentation (and as predicted by our blog), under the contracts of 2017 with the Ministry of Defense "Uralvagonzavod" it is planned to supply 12 BMPT (in 2018) and 30 T-90M (in 2018-2019 ). At the same time, out of 30 T-90M tanks only ten will be machines of new construction, and the remaining 20 will be converted during the kaital repair and modernization of the T-90 tanks. On the bmpd side, we note that in the latter case, apparently, the goal is to estimate the level of costs, if possible, to upgrade to the T-90M level of the T-90 tank fleet.

       Due to the materials of other tender purchases by NPK Uralvagonzavod, it can be concluded that this package of contracts for 2017 includes also the modernization of 62 T-80B tanks to the T-80BVM level (delivering 21 units in 2018 and 2019).

    NOTE: assume they would mean 31 units per year
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:03 am

    I guess they want to test the waters to see if this is the choice or if Armata is more worth it.

    Hard to tell, rather small orders these days while budget is significantly more than it was before.
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    franco

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:20 am

    miketheterrible wrote:I guess they want to test the waters to see if this is the choice or if Armata is more worth it.

    Hard to tell, rather small orders these days while budget is significantly more than it was before.

    They have reported that there will be 200 tanks per year. This order is for less then 100 over 2 years, so minus the T-14's that must mean the rest will be T-72B3's. Interesting to note 10 new build T-90M's.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:58 am

    I know they could have borrowed same tech for T-72B as they are doing for T-90M. Wonder why they opted out of that? Unless the B3 is really only expected to serve long enough till Armata's come out in numbers.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:32 am

    I am wondering if they will buy BTRT vehicles based on old T-72 chassis as well as new T-90s and BMPTs based on T-72s as a transition to armata based divs.


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    0nillie0

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  0nillie0 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:20 am

    GarryB wrote:I am wondering if they will buy BTRT vehicles based on old T-72 chassis as well as new T-90s and BMPTs based on T-72s as a transition to armata based divs.

    You actually raise an interesting question, though i am not sure it belongs in this topic.

    I was recently thinking about the BMO-T "Flamethrower", which is based on the T-72, and has a capacity of up to 7 dismounts. It entered service at least 10 years ago (but in only limited numbers) and was recently showcased again in live fire demonstrations. I dont reallly see a reason for "showcasing" this vehicle other than export potential.

    Though the BMO-T itself is a niche vehicle, which does not fit in with the doctrine of most other armies, with some minor adjustments it could actually work as decent heavy infantry fighting vehicle.
    The advanced stage of development of platforms such as Kurganets have probably made such an IFV obsolete for Russia, but i find it somewhat odd that in the past decade we did not see this platform offered for a stop gap measure IFV design.  

    In terms of crew comfort and ease of dismounting, it is far from ideal, but certainly not much worse then a BMP-3 or BMD-4M, which are beeing delivered to this day. In terms of protection, it is overall more protected then a BMP3. It is mostly based on the well known T-72, and with an engine upgrade it has excellent power to weight ratio. The likely reason why this has not happened, is most probably the lack of room for impleneting a turret. We see in the BTR-T (though based on the T-55 chassis) that adding even a small one man turret reduces the dismount capacity to 5, which is simply not enough IMHO.

    Today we see much improvements in the capabilities of unmanned turrets which have little penetration into the crew compartment. I am sure they could arm it up to the same level of the BMP-2 Berezhok. If not for domestic use, surely they could develop a cost effective infantry fighting vehicle for export customers. After all, the T-72A is probably one of the most commonly used MBT's in the world. Many 3rd world countries however lack adequatly protected IFV's, and have more need for those than their inventory of MBT's. This concept is verry similar to the BMPT, but again, most countries dont need dedicated tank escorts, and would rather have vehicles suitable for both troop transport and front line infantry support.

    And should development of the Kurganets or T-15 stall further, then yes, it may prove to be a usefull stop gap measure or even a cheap, fast to mass produce alternative in wartime.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:49 pm

    0nillie0 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I am wondering if they will buy BTRT vehicles based on old T-72 chassis as well as new T-90s and BMPTs based on T-72s as a transition to armata based divs.

    You actually raise an interesting question, though i am not sure it belongs in this topic.

    I was recently thinking about the BMO-T "Flamethrower", which is based on the T-72, and has a capacity of up to 7 dismounts. It entered service at least 10 years ago (but in only limited numbers) and was recently showcased again in live fire demonstrations. I dont reallly see a reason for "showcasing" this vehicle other than export potential.

    Though the BMO-T itself is a niche vehicle, which does not fit in with the doctrine of most other armies, with some minor adjustments it could actually work as decent heavy infantry fighting vehicle.
    The advanced stage of development of platforms such as Kurganets have probably made such an IFV obsolete for Russia, but i find it somewhat odd that in the past decade we did not see this platform offered for a stop gap measure IFV design.  

    In terms of crew comfort and ease of dismounting, it is far from ideal, but certainly not much worse then a BMP-3 or BMD-4M, which are beeing delivered to this day. In terms of protection, it is overall more protected then a BMP3. It is mostly based on the well known T-72, and with an engine upgrade it has excellent power to weight ratio. The likely reason why this has not happened, is most probably the lack of room for impleneting a turret. We see in the BTR-T (though based on the T-55 chassis) that adding even a small one man turret reduces the dismount capacity to 5, which is simply not enough IMHO.

    Today we see much improvements in the capabilities of unmanned turrets which have little penetration into the crew compartment. I am sure they could arm it up to the same level of the BMP-2 Berezhok. If not for domestic use, surely they could develop a cost effective infantry fighting vehicle for export customers. After all, the T-72A is probably one of the most commonly used MBT's in the world. Many 3rd world countries however lack adequatly protected IFV's, and have more need for those than their inventory of MBT's. This concept is verry similar to the BMPT, but again, most countries dont need dedicated tank escorts, and would rather have vehicles suitable for both troop transport and front line infantry support.

    And should development of the Kurganets or T-15 stall further, then yes, it may prove to be a usefull stop gap measure or even a cheap, fast to mass produce alternative in wartime.

    Some good points here although you state that some armies don't require dedicated tank escorts but bmpt isn't just used for that and some armies who are currently sitting heavy on MBTs are now looking to diversify as situation changes. If you look at Peru for instance they recently were looking to convert some of their T-55 to BTRT / bmpt turret. And countries like south Africa who have never really needed much in the way of MBTs may be more suited to bmpt vehicle so potential is there for export especially if they make unmanned turret versions. I agree that BMO -T is more a niche market as some countries may just opt for a IFV or APC that's already in service with them attach rocket screens and arm troops with RPO rather than spend more on the BMO-T even it's more armoured. U might find Russia just sticks an RPO armed squad into a typhoon for the same purpose.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:31 am

    The Balkan 40mm grenade launcher is a slim compact weapon... fitted together with a PKT you would have a useful mini turret able to deal with a variety of threats in a compact mount...

    But back on topic I wonder if they will release the identity of the 10,000 AFVs that were going to be scrapped and which ones are still going to be scrapped...

    I would suspect most of the ones to be scrapped are the oldest most worn out items that have likely already been stripped of parts, but it would be interesting to see what they are throwing away and what they are keeping... and why...


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