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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

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    Asf
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Asf on Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:56 pm

    It would actually be almost twice that amount in active units as the T-80 has been completely withdrawn from service.

    Russia has around 40 motorised rifle brigades with one tank batallion (around 40 tanks). It's about 1500-1600 tanks. Plus a limited number of tanks in naval infantry and 4 tank brigades (or now 3 ar one brigade was converted into a division), but don't forget about T-90. It's around 2000 in the active service at all

    spares kept with operational units.

    They are technically in reserve

     training units

    Those can have older T-72 models btw
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    franco
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:33 pm

    My info shows 37 tank battalions in brigades of which 8 are T-90A's. A normal Russian tank bn has 41 tanks plus an unit generally has another company of older versions used for training.
    This would equal 1189 primary + 290 training T-72's.
    There are 4 tank bdes plus 1 regiment (18th MG div) with 94 tanks per plus a training company per bn all T-72's.
    This would equal 470 primary + 150 training T-72's.
    There are 4 training tank regiments plus 2 bns of which 1 bn is T-90.
    This would equal 417 training T-72's.
    This would equal 2516 total T-72's. If you include the 13 Reserve bde tank bns then it goes above 3,000.



    Not trying to argue my friend, just sharing what information that I have. Only the Russian MoD has the correct answer... we hope  Wink 

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Asf on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:31 pm

    plus 1 regiment (18th MG div)

    plus 2 regiments from Kantemirovskaya division

    Still we don't the exact numbers per model


    Last edited by Asf on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:47 pm

    Asf wrote:Still we don't the exact numbers per model

    No, and probably never will. But the fun is in the searching in the interim  Smile 

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Asf on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:58 pm

    plus 1 regiment (18th MG div)

    I don't know about Tamanskaya motor rifle division, but there are 2 regiments from Kantemirovskaya tank division instead of 1 tank brigade. Btw they are 2th and 4th divisions, what is a 18th division?
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:06 pm

    Asf wrote:
    plus 1 regiment (18th MG div)

    I don't know about Tamanskaya motor rifle division, but there are 2 regiments from Kantemirovskaya tank division instead of 1 tank brigade. Btw they are 2th and 4th divisions, what is a 18th division?

    I have yet to see any proof that there was any actual increase in size of these two "divisions" being increased from "brigades" other then their Recon element increased from 200 to 500 men. Believe it was strictly to restore their historical names and honours. The 18th MG division is the unit defending the Kuriles.
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    George1
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:47 am

    Can anyone give us info about how many battle tanks are in service now with Russian ground forces?

    T-90:
    T-80:
    T-72B2/B3:
    T-72:
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:47 pm

    [quote="George1"]Can anyone give us info about how many battle tanks are in service now with Russian ground forces?

    T-90:~500
    T-80:~100
    T-72B2/B3:~750
    T-72B/BA:~1,200

    The only unit that for sure still uses the T-80BV is the 18th MGA division, totals would include Coastal units under Navy control. Only a couple hundred T-80 were modernized, so rest would be in reserve. As far as I'm aware there were around 7-8,000 total T-72B's produced, so would expect that to be the cut off point for reserves.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:06 am

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:Can anyone give us info about how many battle tanks are in service now with Russian ground forces?

    T-90:~500
    T-80:~100
    T-72B2/B3:~750
    T-72B/BA:~1,200

    The only unit that for sure still uses the T-80BV is the 18th MGA division, totals would include Coastal units under Navy control. Only a couple hundred T-80 were modernized, so rest would be in reserve. As far as I'm aware there were around 7-8,000 total T-72B's produced, so would expect that to be the cut off point for reserves.

    thanks for the numbers. What is MGA? Guards Tank Division??
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:52 pm

    "thanks for the numbers. What is MGA? Guards Tank Division??"

    Machine Gun Artillery - Coastal Defense unit guarding the Kuriles.

    Further to my figures, the T-80's figure could be 100 -200 higher depending on how many brigades have still not switched over. There are 3-4 MR/TK brigades that I have not seen confirmed. Of course this would result in a corresponding lower T-72B total. Another factor to consider is that Russian tank battalions generally keep an extra 10 older models around for training and spares. That would add another 500 to the total.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  VladimirSahin on Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:23 pm

    Are the tank numbers really that low? That's disappointing.  Does anyone know the armor values the tanks in service have?
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:33 am

    Don't know where those numbers come from. Last ones I heard, there are over 1000 T-90 variants in service.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Don't know where those numbers come from. Last ones I heard, there are over 1000 T-90 variants in service.

    There are a lot of different numbers out there and don't believe we will ever know the exact totals. The numbers that IMO have the most support is that the Russian army has received ~700 T-90 variants almost equally between the 90 and the 90A. The first 200 of the 90's were so badly misused by the conscript crews that they were put in storage as N/S and 15 years later still sit there. That leaves 500 of which about 25% would be 90's and the rest 90A's. Your total of 1,000 in service would equal 20 battalions but I'm only aware of 8-9 battalions using the T-90.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:52 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Are the tank numbers really that low? That's disappointing.  Does anyone know the armor values the tanks in service have?

    It would seem to be that there are between 13 -15,000 Russian tanks in use and storage. That would seem to break down to T-72 (60%), T-80 (25-30%) T-90 and T-64 making up the rest.

    Active units would be;
    2 Tank regiments and 3 Tank brigades each of 95 tanks = 495 total
    40 tank battalions in Motor Rifle and Coastal units. Most at 41 tanks with a few at 31. For this argument all at 41 tanks = 1640 total
    4 tank training regiments (@95 per) and 1 tank training battalion (@41 per) = 421 total
    Each tank unit carries around 10 older models for training and spares x 50 = 500 total
    12 Motor Rifle (@41 per) storage brigades and 1 Tank (@95 per) storage brigade = 587 total

    Grand total = 2135 front line, 421 training, 500 spares, 587 reserves = 3643 plus the rest in storage.


    NOTE: for those that think the front line number is small. Do some research and see how many active M1 Abram battalions (@58 per) are employed in the US Army and Marine Corp?


    Last edited by franco on Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  VladimirSahin on Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:24 pm

    thanks for explaining,  Conscripts really did use 200 tanks that bad?  That doesn't sound right to me.  Were they not trained to use them...
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:30 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:thanks for explaining,  Conscripts really did use 200 tanks that bad?  That doesn't sound right to me.  Were they not trained to use them...

    We are talking the first production model in the mid-90's. There may also have been some design and manufacturing problems that they didn't want known, as they were trying to sell the tank to the Indians. So the poor conscripts took the heat, but who really knows. They must be in pretty bad shape or you would have thought that they would have been the first tanks refurbished.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  VladimirSahin on Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:26 pm

    They probably didn't have enough funding for some parts during the 90s and built those batches with missing parts... And when the tankers started using it the way it was intended the tanks of course got messed up.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:32 pm

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:Can anyone give us info about how many battle tanks are in service now with Russian ground forces?

    T-90:~500
    T-80:~100
    T-72B2/B3:~750
    T-72B/BA:~1,200

    The only unit that for sure still uses the T-80BV is the 18th MGA division, totals would include Coastal units under Navy control. Only a couple hundred T-80 were modernized, so rest would be in reserve. As far as I'm aware there were around 7-8,000 total T-72B's produced, so would expect that to be the cut off point for reserves.

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-(updated-on-regular-basis)&p=7549164&viewfull=1#post7549164

    4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division with T-80 also. Only for Training?
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    Russian Tank Force

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:43 pm

    franco wrote:"thanks for the numbers. What is MGA? Guards Tank Division??"

    Machine Gun Artillery - Coastal Defense unit guarding the Kuriles.

    Further to my figures, the T-80's figure could be 100 -200 higher depending on how many brigades have still not switched over. There are 3-4 MR/TK brigades that I have not seen confirmed. Of course this would result in a corresponding lower T-72B total. Another factor to consider is that Russian tank battalions generally keep an extra 10 older models around for training and spares. That would add another 500 to the total.

    I qualified my first comment with this one ^^.
    The 4th Tank brigade now division was one of the 4 units that I was not sure if they had switched over as planned. And it appears that they didn't by this and other information that I have seen since. Still not sure what type of organization that these two divisions are to end up with and how advanced they are in obtaining that. Rumors are 2 regiments and SOP is to keep the same type of equipment in each unit as possible. So at least 95 if not 190 T-80's added to the total and less T-72's.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sat May 16, 2015 10:01 pm

    UPDATED TANK TOTALS

    ~ 55 tank battalions in the combat units of the Ground and Coastal Forces
    ~ 10 tank battalions in the training centers

    ~ 725 T-72BA  (~ 16 battalions)
    ~ 50 T-72B1 (~ 1 battalion)
    ~ 360 T-72B3 (~ 8 battalions)
    ~ 400 T-80U (~ 9 battalions)*
    ~ 150 T-80BV (~ 3 battalions)*
    ~ 180 T-90 (~ 4 battalions)*
    ~ 315 T-90A (~ 7 battalions)

    This would leave ~ 17 battalions with the T-72B (~ 750)

    NOTES - The T-80's were all to have been withdrawn from service by 2015. It apparently was decided to keep the latest model (T-80U) and the few (T-80BV) that had been upgraded prior to the decision to phase the tank out, until the T-14 replaces.
             - It has been reported by different sources that the T-90's are in storage. If so the T-72B totals would be higher. Hopefully the T-90AM upgrade is for those tanks.
             - Tank battalions are either 3-companies (31 tanks) or 4-companies (41 tanks). Old Soviet Army procedures had another company of older tanks kept for training and spares. It appears that figure is probably down to 3-4 spares per battalion.
             - Tank brigades and regiments use the 3-company battalion while Motor Rifle brigades and regiments use the 4-company battalion. There are a few exceptions.


    2015 Equipment Acquisition plans are for around 300 Tanks, 20 will be T-14's for testing & evaluation purposes. The remainder are to be T-72B3's and T-90AM's with the breakdown not announced yet.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sat May 16, 2015 10:14 pm

    Very dissapointed from low numbers, It appears the US has the advantage when it comes to tanks by a lot. I mean come on we only have 360 T-72B3? So assuming the T-90s have thermals and advanced FCS, And of course T-72B3s have them too that leaves 855 equipped with modern up to date optics... While the T-80Us have a decent FCS. While all US tanks in service have a advanced FCS and thermals. I my self didn't want to believe we lose to US in terms of tank forces but I think we do. If I am incorrect please someone fix it because its disappointing to see these numbers. While I am on this topic does anyone have the inventory list on how much tanks are in service with the US?
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 16, 2015 10:30 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Very dissapointed from low numbers, It appears the US has the advantage when it comes to tanks by a lot. I mean come on we only have 360 T-72B3? So assuming the T-90s  have thermals and advanced FCS, And of course T-72B3s have them too that leaves 855 equipped with modern up to date optics... While the T-80Us have a decent FCS. While all US tanks in service have a advanced FCS and thermals. I my self didn't want to believe we lose to US in terms of tank forces but I think we do. If I am incorrect please someone fix it because its disappointing to see these numbers. While I am on this topic does anyone have the inventory list on how much tanks are in service with the US?

    Unfortunately that seems to be the case.  M1 inventory seems to be higher than Russia's total inventory of tanks in service as well.

    Pretty pathetic really on Russia's end.  With having an armed forces roughly in same size as US, they have a lot less of nearly everything than US. Although, Franko's numbers could be off by quite a bit. He didn't specify the sources.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Sat May 16, 2015 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  sepheronx on Sat May 16, 2015 10:56 pm

    http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail-page-2.asp?armor_id=161

    According to this, 2015, Russia operates 930 T-90's. If this is the case, then how come Franco's numbers are not even close?
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sat May 16, 2015 11:05 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail-page-2.asp?armor_id=161

    According to this, 2015, Russia operates 930 T-90's.  If this is the case, then how come Franco's numbers are not even close?

    Because I'm old and wise Very Happy

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-294.html

    The IISS World Military Balance has Russia operating around ~350 T-90's along with a number of experts. The link I gave you like to track production totals amongst other things.
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Werewolf on Sat May 16, 2015 11:08 pm

    Russia has over 3000-4000 T-72B not just 50, those numbers are far to low. Russia's stock along with stored and conserved tanks is to 22.500 tanks, cutting of T-55/62 models from that it leaves russia with 16.500 tanks of T-72,T-80,T-90.

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