Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Share
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:57 pm

    galicije83 wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    and theoretically they all can be upgraded to T-90M standard?

    Yes but price of modernization of T-90 first series is huge, because then must build new turrets, because turret on T-90 is cast not welded, they must made new autoloader for him. Literally they would build a new tank, similarly to the modernization of tank T-72 on the BM standard, which was too expensive.  Its far easier to modernize A series with latest upgrades then old one made from 1992-1998. Because of that Russian will be upgrade only T-90As made from 2006-2011/12, not T-90As made from 2004-2006.

    Russian will be modernized 337 T-90A, they will not build new ones unfortunately. In my opinion its stupid idea and i think that is far batter to have 500 more new built T-90As then lod T-72B modernized to B3 standard...T72 was and still is shitty tank....

    It is the best tank among the second generation of tanks, the only second gen tank that has anywhere near the chance to be even on the battlefield with 3rd gen MBT's while 2nd gen tanks of the west like Chieftain were not even a challane for old T-62 (1st gen tanks). It is the best in its class hands down.


    My number of T-90 all series in Russian army is right...

    The following dots tell a great insecurity in your own numbers aswell like most would have with your numbers.

    I have not kept track of numbers nor do i have the will or time for that but there should be 500-600 of them in service.
    avatar
    galicije83

    Posts : 39
    Points : 41
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Age : 37
    Location : Novi Sad, Serbia

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  galicije83 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:49 pm

    dots are my trade mark on any forum...

    here it is all of T-90s made for russian army...its on russian and i can translate for u and rest of u...


    ass u can see in 2011/12 when they finished manufacture this tanks it was less then 500 T-90 all series made for russian army...

    so my numbers are correct, mate...
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:54 pm

    At the top it also says that those numbers with * haven't been verified.

    Vann7

    Posts : 3452
    Points : 3570
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:29 pm

    galicije83 wrote:wikipedia is not the true source of the real number  of the T-90A tanks in the Russian army, and I have other sources that say little differently then wikipedia.

    My number of T-90 all series in Russian army is right...

    It could be , i dont know.. i only provided the source from where i got my info.
    You haven't provided yours.

    Whatever the case is , neither 500 ,neither 1,000 is enough.
    Russia military is not prepared to fight all kind of scenarios. The believe that Russian nuclear
    weapons is enough to save Russia or be a deterrent to any enemy as GaryB believe is completely FALSE.

    Nuclear weapons as deterrence only works if your enemies have sanity. ie.. that they care
    about human lives and their people and their country and dont want to see it destroyed.
    But if your enemy is a Psychopath. With mental disorders , lets say Erdogan for example.
    or someone like Hillary Clinton that gets pre -selected by the US elite ,the true personification of evil , or the enemy is criminal /corrupt organization that is under influence of USA lets say RIght Sector takes controls of Ukraine in kiev. The truly Russia will be in danger its nation security if
    their enemies start attacking Russia with weapons . What will Russia do if Erdogan turn really crazy and makes alliance with ISIS openly and declare war on Russia and start a crackdown on
    all its citizens who oppose its war.. What is Russia going to do if Turkey start atacking Russia with cruise missiles and block the hormuz strait to any Russian warship? and start arresting/killing all ethnic Russians (50,000 ) that made their lives in turkey with a turkey wife.
    What will Russia do? What is Russian nuclear weapons going to do to protect Russia? Nothing.
    it will have a Nation attacking/killing Russians on its land.. (as ukraine is doing in donbass) but also blockading all Russia legitimate commerce in the mediterranean sea with sourthern Europe.middle east and Africa.  it will be a declaration of war.. what is Russian nukes going to do to change the mind of a Psychopath sick man that will not cease hostilities against them?

    then Russia be forced to fight back. And again nukes will be useless against people that do not reason and do not care about dying or their country and citizens destroyed.  see?
    So the only choices Russia will have is waste  its nuclear weapons on Turkey ,(that they will need against Americans). Killing millions ,and still that will not remove Erdogan from power ,since they all have bunkers made by Americans deep underground. or an invasion of Turkey.

    Russia is on a really dangerous time ,close to world war 2 dangers. US senate is preparing for increasing the hostilities against Russia.. by giving Obama unlimited powers for war at any time under any pretext. So they could very easily provoke a war at the same
    time between UKRAINE + TURKEY. then what will Russia do?  Those T-72s and T-90s will not have a chance against Javeline or spike missiles top attack missiles guided by wire, that the pentagon can supply to both nations.

    and in an invasion of a country of the size of Turkey,  Russia will need on its inventory no less than a dozen thousand of Armata tanks. 2,000 will not be enough. because Russia needs to defend Far east , central Russia, and eastern Russia and kaliningrad and crimea and the border with Ukraine and caucasus, and armenia and tajikistan.  The reason is because Americans are already in an undeclared war against Russia,they want to destroy Russia plain and simple and they have the capabilities to get Russia into a fight in many front lines at the same time to exhaust all its army capabilities.  

    Very easily US can get Russia into a fight with moldova and another in defense of tajikistan and another in defense of Armenia. So if all Russia makes is just 2,000 armata tanks they will be unable to do any invasion anywhere even less fight a world war 3 ,while keeping tanks to defend its own nation. Ideally for peace of mind ,with 20,000 to 30,000 armata will be a force that could truly allow Russia to fight in many frontlines at the same where nukes cant be used and be unstopable . But 10,000 should work too but not for a world war 3 scenario.  Soviets required near 30,000 tanks to win in world war 2.. lets never forget that. this is not counting transportation and still their casualties were catastrophic in the dozens of millions. 2,000 tanks are only good against third world nations and minor conflicts. but definitively not enough to fight NATO major powers and well supplied for decades by Americans. Israel used 600 tanks against hezbolah when invaded lebanon and we all know the result. it was not enough to fight people that do not quit. for third world nations like afganistan.. soviets used  1,800 tanks, 80,000 soldiers and 2,000 AFVs. Armatas are very advanced and could for the first time allow Russia
    to fight in wars with very little ,next to no casualties. but they need to be deployed in the dozens of thousands to fully cover a big powerful nation while avoiding many casualties.

    All said.. for conventional warfare ,right now Russia army is very vulnerable to defend its nation interest *outside Russian borders* if the enemy is well armed by American weapons .Javelines missiles will disable those T-90 even the newer ones. .Why Russia needs Armata now and not in the year 2020 and in really big thousand numbers just in case will be forced to invade a NATO nation.
    avatar
    Walther von Oldenburg

    Posts : 904
    Points : 959
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 26
    Location : Oldenburg

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:34 am

    Every action causes reaction. IF Russia feels threatened by a major conventional war, more funds will be allocated to the military and as a result, armament production will increase.

    What's thr purpose of having 10,000 Armata tanks in service? W Europe as a whole has fewer than 1,500 tanks. US has about 2,000 modern M1A2s and several thousand obsolete M1A1s and M1s. China has some 2,000 relatively modern tanks in service. Who else can threaten Russia? Potential war between Turkey and Russia will nto be waged by ground forces. It wil be waged in the air and sea.
    avatar
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5361
    Points : 5598
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:20 pm

    par far wrote:What are the chances that Armata 14 will be tested in Syria? Not right now but say at the end of 2016.

    Also can someone please shed light on the Urban version of the Armata 14.

    I would say the possibility is as high as Obama or Erdogan taking some place amongst ranks of the NATO spearheads against Russia in WW3.

    You do not give such a highly covered and hot topic as Syria some prototype tank as a prooving ground, that is the american way not the russian way nor the rest of the world. You test ammunition or some small infantry weapon plattforms and not major weapon plattforms that are not even out of the prototype phase and they won't be out of the prototype phase by 2016/17 and probably not by end of 2017. That would be a major blowback since all militaries and MIC around the world could gather to many information and data from such a to early deployment and develope solutions or tactics to what they consider having the right answer for.
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2388
    Points : 2426
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:59 pm

    Not sure if this was posted elsewhere but nice article.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ipT7Od8E6I

    Vann7

    Posts : 3452
    Points : 3570
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Talks about the current state of the Russian economy and its effect on the future prospects of Armata, T-90AM & T-72B3.

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:28 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Every action causes reaction. IF Russia feels threatened by a major conventional war, more funds will be allocated to the military and as a result, armament production will increase.

    What's thr purpose of having 10,000 Armata tanks in service? W Europe as a whole has fewer than 1,500 tanks. US has about 2,000 modern M1A2s and several thousand obsolete M1A1s and M1s. China has some 2,000 relatively modern tanks in service. Who else can threaten Russia? Potential war between Turkey and Russia will nto be waged by ground forces. It wil be waged in the air and sea.


    To go on the offensive if Russia is forced to invade another nation.
    You didn't read any of what i told because i already explained why Russia needs so many.
    Nuclear weapons alone are not enough , as i said , they cannot remove from power a crazy
    leader who takes control of a powerful big country.

    What will Russia do if a more crazy leadership takes control of a powerful nation and start providing nuclear weapons to Ukraine ,to Turkey ,to baltics etc.. ? then provide biological weapons to terrorist to attack Russians citizens and hundreds of thousands die?

    What if Turkey blocks hormus strait to Russia and start attacking its base? ohh then Russia will nuke them.. but what if they dont care and continue with the war?   Russia needs from 12,000
    to 30,000 arma tanks so they can wage big wars outside its borders in case their nation attacked. for the same reasons that Americans have near 1,200 military bases around the world.Because it will allow Russia to fight in many fronts at the same time with an army and not
    leave any part of Russia unprotected.  With a huge number of modern tanks ,you can really do a lighting fast war , capture enemy capital fast , overwhelm its defenses and keep casualties very low if any.  And also crazy leaders like Erdogan and its fanatical supporters are not rational
    and will not surrender and stop its aggression to Russia and its allies ,even if all their cities destroyed . So having a major tank modern force will allow Russia to invade any NATO power
    very fast with next to no casualties if done right. So this is why the more tank the better since soldiers will be safer . And if the tanks are operated by control remote even better.  Is all about
    having the capability to overwhelm any nation like Turkey or any other ,from all directions so fast ,that their capital is captured in just a few days ,less than a week.and the rest of the country in a month.  And Russia also  needs to prepare for the ultimate consequences like an invasion of USA too..Invading a nation is the only way you can really remove a crazy leader from power that fully controls it and have many loyal support.. Germany was not stopped until
    Russian tanks drive over berlin. So History give me the reason,that  Russia needs to be prepared for a really crazy unthikable war where will be forced to invade Turkey or any other NATO power including USA. Naturally for that last one will need China help and many transport ships .Nukes cannot penetrate bunkers deep underground like the Americans knows how to build. So an invasion will be needed.  Russia will have never lost 20 million soldiers ,if they had at the start of the war 30,000 modern tanks very capable against the west.With US and allies capabilities to concentrate so many thousands of modern tanks and their near infinite supply of modern top attack missiles ,then This is why Russia needs so many tanks to really overwhelm the enemy in such a way that they cannot fight . That will save many lives and totally change the politics that created the conflict. Russian enemies will negotiate when they see Russian Tanks rolling freely over their capital.

    par far

    Posts : 1403
    Points : 1560
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    1St Guards Tank Army

    Post  par far on Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:26 pm

    Very nice to see that Russia is upgrading its Tank Army.

    http://southfront.org/russia-defense-report-1st-guards-tank-army/


    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10215
    Points : 10703
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  George1 on Thu May 26, 2016 9:49 am

    franco can we have an update on tank numbers per type?? thanks


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2388
    Points : 2426
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sat May 28, 2016 1:08 pm

    George1 wrote:franco can we have an update on tank numbers per type?? thanks

    The Tank force is undergoing a major transitional period over the next couple of years with ~ 20 new battalions being formed. This will increase the total of operational tanks by 800-900 units.
    As per numbers per type, the T-72B3 could be as many as 900 operational and the T-80's could be as low as 200 operational would be the only changes.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 774
    Points : 776
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Isos on Sat May 28, 2016 3:10 pm

    What are the diferences between an operational tank and a reserve tank ? Equipiment carried, engines issues, deployment time ...
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2388
    Points : 2426
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sat May 28, 2016 4:10 pm

    Isos wrote:What are the diferences between an operational tank and a reserve tank ? Equipiment carried, engines issues, deployment time ...

    Has a trained crew and is part of an operational unit ie tank battalion ready for action.

    A tank in reserve or storage is basically just a piece of metal Smile
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 774
    Points : 776
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Isos on Sat May 28, 2016 6:56 pm

    franco wrote:
    Isos wrote:What are the diferences between an operational tank and a reserve tank ? Equipiment carried, engines issues, deployment time ...

    Has a trained crew and is part of an operational unit ie tank battalion ready for action.

    A tank in reserve or storage is basically just a piece of metal Smile

    Does they train their reserve forces ? I mean it's not the same to form a civil firing with an AK than forming him to use a tank.

    Another question about tanks also : If you fire on the turret where the gun is and penetrate the gun, will the tank be able to still use its gun after that ?
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2388
    Points : 2426
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Sat May 28, 2016 7:20 pm

    Isos wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Isos wrote:What are the diferences between an operational tank and a reserve tank ? Equipiment carried, engines issues, deployment time ...

    Has a trained crew and is part of an operational unit ie tank battalion ready for action.

    A tank in reserve or storage is basically just a piece of metal Smile

    Does they train their reserve forces ? I mean it's not the same to form a civil firing with an AK than forming him to use a tank.

    Another question about tanks also : If you fire on the turret where the gun is and penetrate the gun, will the tank be able to still use its gun after that ?

    There is no unit reserve training...some but not much individual training and reserve units are on paper only. Would take months to be battle ready.

    No!

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:57 am