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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

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    George1

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:36 am



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    franco

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:05 am


    Curious as to where all the bodies are coming from for all these new units but imagine we will soon find out.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:44 am

    franco wrote:

    Curious as to where all the bodies are coming from for all these new units but imagine we will soon find out.

    Conscripts should be higher now that Russia managed to make half of its army contract based rather than mostly conscript like it was years ago.
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    franco

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:01 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    franco wrote:

    Curious as to where all the bodies are coming from for all these new units but imagine we will soon find out.

    Conscripts should be higher now that Russia managed to make half of its army contract based rather than mostly conscript like it was years ago.

    The demographic crisis that Russia was experiencing peaks as in regards to lack of 18 year old's to conscript in 2016-2018. It isn't until after then, that there starts to be more 18 year old's each year.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:53 am

    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    franco wrote:

    Curious as to where all the bodies are coming from for all these new units but imagine we will soon find out.

    Conscripts should be higher now that Russia managed to make half of its army contract based rather than mostly conscript like it was years ago.

    The demographic crisis that Russia was experiencing peaks as in regards to lack of 18 year old's to conscript in 2016-2018. It isn't until after then, that there starts to be more 18 year old's each year.

    That is true, it will take a couple of years for them to have the amount of 18 year olds eligible for military service. But while previously, almost all 800,000 people were conscripts, it is now effectively almost half a million for both conscripts and contractors, as they were able to offshoot a lot of the tasks/positions to contractors. But if they were able to increase number of contractors as greatly as they have, I don't doubt they could easily muster up a couple more hundred thousand conscripts. Afterall, Russia is 146+ Million population, now added in Crimea as well.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:07 pm

    The 10th Gds Tank Division is suppose to be staffed with contractors
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    franco

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  franco on Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:05 am

    Another analysis of the Russian Tank force and projections;
    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/
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    BKP

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  BKP on Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:05 am

    Talks about the current state of the Russian economy and its effect on the future prospects of Armata, T-90AM & T-72B3.

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:48 am

    BKP wrote:Talks about the current state of the Russian economy and its effect on the future prospects of Armata, T-90AM & T-72B3.


    Well Uralvagonzavod with German accent and statements that  T-90 is  worse then ukropskie tanki., I guess no more laugh this morning needed Smile

    BTW authors might maybe can check facts how many "oplots"  were delivered to Thailand for for years? 10! then is real danger for Russia export!

    and yesss till 2025 400 max. Damn next undisputed expertize?Smile
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    BKP

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  BKP on Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:28 pm

    ^ You think that's a German accent? I thought more like an ESL person who learned English in South England. Anyhow, her accent is weird, and difficult for me to understand sometimes.

    Regarding what was said in the video, I'm not no expert, but some of this seemed questionable. She says something like "T-90 is becoming rapidly outdated," and is basically being outclassed by Uke Oplot and Chinese Type 96A. Then it's claimed that this is the reason why Thailand chose Oplot over the T-90. I didn't personally follow the details of that deal, and am not familiar with the details and what factors played into Thailand's decision.

    Anyhow, I've generally thought South Front is a pretty good alternative news source, but I'm quite dubious about some of what is said in this video.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:31 am

    BKP wrote: Regarding what was said in the video, I'm not no expert, but some of this seemed questionable. She says something like "T-90 is becoming rapidly outdated," and is basically being outclassed by Uke Oplot and Chinese Type 96A. Then it's claimed that this is the reason why Thailand chose Oplot over the T-90. I didn't personally follow the details of that deal, and am not familiar with the details and what factors played into Thailand's decision.

    Anyhow, I've generally thought South Front is a pretty good alternative news source, but I'm quite dubious about some of what is said in this video.

    Pls do not take this personally I was pointing their way of presenting data.  BTW Thai delegation afte evident failure of Ukraine contract visited Moscow to negotiate possible contract what was not mentioned in this news.


    BTW 400 Armatas in 2015 is base don what exactly - no info/source provided so I cannot treat this kind of news otherwise as anti-Russian info war.
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    BKP

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  BKP on Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:01 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    BKP wrote: Regarding what was said in the video, I'm not no expert, but some of this seemed questionable. She says something like "T-90 is becoming rapidly outdated," and is basically being outclassed by Uke Oplot and Chinese Type 96A. Then it's claimed that this is the reason why Thailand chose Oplot over the T-90. I didn't personally follow the details of that deal, and am not familiar with the details and what factors played into Thailand's decision.

    Anyhow, I've generally thought South Front is a pretty good alternative news source, but I'm quite dubious about some of what is said in this video.

    Pls do not take this personally I was pointing their way of presenting data.  BTW Thai delegation afte evident failure of Ukraine contract visited Moscow to negotiate possible contract what was not mentioned in this news.


    BTW 400 Armatas in 2015 is base don what exactly - no info/source provided so I cannot treat this kind of news otherwise as anti-Russian info war.

    Right, I have read they the Thais are possibly negotiating a deal with Russia now that the original one with Ukraine has soured. Of course, there's the question of why the Thais first picked Oplot over T-90. It's quite possible that other factors played into their decision other than simply which is the better machine. Cost and outside pressure come to mind. As I said though, I don't really know.

    South Front is certainly not typically anti-Russia. I'm not at all sure that this video was intended to be either. Could just be that they didn't have their facts straight on this.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:07 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    BKP wrote: Regarding what was said in the video, I'm not no expert, but some of this seemed questionable. She says something like "T-90 is becoming rapidly outdated," and is basically being outclassed by Uke Oplot and Chinese Type 96A. Then it's claimed that this is the reason why Thailand chose Oplot over the T-90. I didn't personally follow the details of that deal, and am not familiar with the details and what factors played into Thailand's decision.

    Anyhow, I've generally thought South Front is a pretty good alternative news source, but I'm quite dubious about some of what is said in this video.

    Pls do not take this personally I was pointing their way of presenting data.  BTW Thai delegation afte evident failure of Ukraine contract visited Moscow to negotiate possible contract what was not mentioned in this news.


    BTW 400 Armatas in 2015 is base don what exactly - no info/source provided so I cannot treat this kind of news otherwise as anti-Russian info war.

    400 T-14 not Armata's. Armata is the modular hull which can be produced in high numbers and before the tank was even unveiled they had produced more than 7 tanks not to mention how many testplattforms they might have. 2300 Armata's does not mean T-14 but all the various plattforms and 400 T-14 is already 400 more tanks which no other nation has of that level.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:12 am

    Guys, the plan is for 2,000 T-14's.

    Their numbers are off;
    A) There are almost already 1,000 B3's today, in fact they should be all replaced by T-14's at that point.
    B) 400 T-14's is probably made up. Even with economic insecurity that figure is way too low.
    C) More like 300 T-90M's from what we are hearing.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  kvs on Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:47 am

    400 is what Russia can produce each year currently. Anyone with doubts that 2000 will be built in 10 years needs to
    put the crack pipe down. The Russian budget deficit is 2.6% of GDP in the middle of this global recession. Brazil's
    budget deficit is 10% of GDP. It is rather easy for the Russian government to prioritize military spending. The 5th
    column has no traction with the Russian people in using this to generate discontent. Russians know that their military
    is their only safeguard. They have too many dead in their families from historically recent genocidal foreign invasions
    not to know this.

    It actually makes sense to make more T-14s rather than less. There are economies of scale associated with mass production.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:52 am

    The Russian deficit is no worse GDP-% wise than the "official" US deficit (which of course is BS - debt shoots up and the deficit falls down).

    400 annually is optimistic. 200-300 shouldn't be an issue given the amount of funding given to the Armata program.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:14 am

    Also since Uralvagonzavod is Russian, supporting them by buying their product will save them the money in the future in supporting them by handing them money so they don't make over 10,000 employees unemployed and have one of the few if not only armored system companies go into dust and have to then get the same goods from abroad. People are retarded when they cannot seem to even put this information together. Once you think about it, then it sounds dumb to make ridiculous cutbacks.

    Anyway, I think that the T-90AM upgrade is needed. If they can provide similar upgrade to T-72B's in service, then it would be even more ideal. Let us face it, things are getting sketchy in the world and as well, Russia would benefit from actually procuring such weapons and it would drastically increase the chances of other countries buying it as well for new purchases or upgrades to current T-90 tanks.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:34 am

    That as well. The Gov's support for UVZ was proven (again) when they gave additional funding this last December.

    Kind of unrelated, but apparent ChTZ has paid off debts & plans to increase production by 2.5 times in the not too far future.

    T-90M is not need IF T-14 can be put into service at the promised rates. If it can't, then the M would be a good substitute.

    T-72B's won't be getting any upgrades past the new one we just heard about, at least for Russia. There'd be no point.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:50 am

    T-90AM would be more viable if the T-90A existed in greater stocks, with numbers closer to the T-72... But they don't so it isn't.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:53 am

    I hate to sound whiny but it is the T-90M not the AM. That's the way it was shown at Army-2015 so it's most likely official.

    The lower numbers are exactly why it is viable. Asking Russia to build 2,000 T-14's and some 1,000 M's (not to mention other vehicles and exports) is simply unrealistic.

    Don't forget the T-72B2, it was thrown out because it was too much.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:11 am

    Okay, T-90M then. Wink

    I would tend to think that a larger stock of T-90s would represent a heftier return in an investment into an extended Tagil (or whatever name it goes by now, or was that just export?) program. Reduction in costs over time due to T-14 mass production and prolonged (due to theoretical larger stock) T-90 overhauls would mean an overall increase in cost-benefit ratios. A smaller stock means a large initial outlay cost for a reasonably small amount of gain.

    EDIT: As for T-72B2 I think not having the T-14 established at the time was the biggest issue. Componentry is cheaper when your big bro is already creating the demand and improving the prices.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:42 am

    Besides B3, what other model is there for T-72 they mentioned that would be beyond it? or is B3 the last one?
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:44 am

    Well, there are two.

    The B3M with the independent TC sight + 1130 hp engine.

    And the new one with new ERA, grate armour, plus the same 1130 hp engine.

    Nothing too crazy, but that's not a bad thing really.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:36 pm

    Mike E wrote:That as well. The Gov's support for UVZ was proven (again) when they gave additional funding this last December.

    Kind of unrelated, but apparent ChTZ has paid off debts & plans to increase production by 2.5 times in the not too far future.

    T-90M is not need IF T-14 can be put into service at the promised rates. If it can't, then the M would be a good substitute.

    T-72B's won't be getting any upgrades past the new one we just heard about, at least for Russia. There'd be no point.

    With T-72B3 can still be gradually transferred to Syria/Iran orsold on intl market.  But low number of T-90M IMHO you´re not correct that with T-14 they are not needed anymore. Still way better then  T-72 and probably way cheaper than T-14.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:15 pm

    T-90AM is still the best option to face out older generation tanks that are either stored or planned to be faced out but are kept in storage due to lack of current plans to replace them. 2300 T-14's or not is still not a high number and russia should increase its number of tanks on T-90A or even T-90AM level which have a higher fidelity of technological level that will make them more effective to accompany T-14's on the battlefield due to higher protection and Kalina FCS that brings it about any foreign counterparts and closer to T-14's. We have to face the simple fact that US will through any NATO slave as human shields towards russia as long US exists and russia has to be prepared for either a long war or a financial decapitation that is focused to its limits and preferably beyond to put that demon out for once and for all.

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