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    Indian MMRCA competition: News


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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:44 pm

    At this point i wouldn't sell India anything top notch only 2nd row equipment, they have been whoring around for quite a bit with a west they know exactly is cancerous to India and don't even think of indians as equal people but beneath them, but still corruption in india is very high.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  Viktor on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:44 pm

    News that has make my week happer Very Happy

    My vote for you George thumbsup

    and now to make some new Su-35/30s for India airforce.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:31 pm

    George1 wrote:India Scraps Rafale Fighter Deal With France, Eyes Russian Alternative

    Read more:
    Just got the news, i was getting worried, but it looks like they really were taking the failing of the Mistral deal seriously into account, not to mention the insane costs of Rafael, and now the MKI is now being considered, but that doesn't mean the Mig-35 is out of the question.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:22 am

    In the words of Nelson - 'Ha Ha!'

    Serves 'em right.

    India is looking out for its own interests and bargaining position of course, but I can't shake the feeling - that it has placed an accent on sticking by Russia during hard times over the past year, and has let the Americans know that.
    The Mistral case probably wasn't that important ultimately to India's decision - but it did play its role, as it did show to India that France is not a politically-independent country that is worth relying upon or expending too much effort building close relations with. It's daddy is the US. This isn't De Gaulle's France or even Chirac's. It's just another neo-con outpost of American policy. I don't just say that because of the Ukraine, but also Syria, Libya, everything. France has changed. Big time. What is the point of building relations with America's satellites if you can just turn to America itself - if that's where you want to go.

    Therefore, for India, from the political vector of things - a purchase of US or Russian gear makes more sense than a purchase of French weaponary.

    Now all Russia has to do is deliver the coup de grace on France by cancelling the Mistral order and demanding compensation for it. Yet still, let's see where all this Minsk-2 stuff is going first - perhaps the French are looking for an exit strategy and accomodation with Russia through exactly that, and if so Russia shouldn't throw a spanner in the works, and can afford to be patient for a little while longer.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:06 am

    MMRCA must be the biggest joke of an arms competition ever.
    Mike E

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  Mike E on Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:37 am

    TR1 wrote:MMRCA must be the biggest joke of an arms competition ever.
    I'd say.....

    par far

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  par far on Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:57 am

    Is there any truths to this article?


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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:01 am

    TR1 wrote:MMRCA must be the biggest joke of an arms competition ever.

    Mostly because of the French side of the equation.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:41 am

    Their lack of comprehension of the word negotiation is perhaps their main asset in turning success into failure...

    It was always a 10 billion dollar programme... why did they even enter when they knew they couldn't sell their aircraft for less than 22 billion...

    To be honest I always thought the best compromise would have been 36 Rafales and 89 or so MiG-35s.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  mack8 on Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:14 pm

    It will of course be a welcome development if they would cancel this Rafale deal and get something else, preferably from Russia (more Su-30MKI, MiG-35 etc.), but bear in mind that Rafale is still participating in the Aero India show, so probably if a cancellation would be in the offing that likely wouldn't happen (the french would be pissed etc.)

    But yeah like i said before the first best choice (from "their" point of view) is more LCA and more Su-30MKI for those 10 billion, second best just get 120 MiG-35 for that money and be done with it, not only it will save you the extra 10 billion that they apparently will have to pay for the Rafales (they can do a lot of things with that money like actually not only get the MiGs, but also get more Sukhois and LCAs! it will go along way to get IAF to where they want it to be numerically), it will do the job as good as any other contender, and will have major advantages in commonality and the political factor (no sanctions vulnerability and "export limitation" mumbo-jumbo here, RSK MiG will let India integrate whatever it wants on it, Astra, cruise missiles, other munitions, avionics, radar and ECM etc.)

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  Kyo on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:21 pm

    India's Rafale dilemma: France cannot be trusted after Mistral faux pas


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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:18 pm

    Mega MMRCA project for 126 jets to be scrapped
    Rajat Pandit,TNN | Apr 13, 2015, 09.29 PM IST

    Defence minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday also made it clear that if India goes in for additional French Rafale fighters, after the outright purchase of 36 jets decided during the Modi-Hollande summit in Paris last Friday, it will also be through government-to-government deals. (AFP Photo)
    Purchase of 36 fighters will alter original dealIndia to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from FranceRafale deal is 'oxygen' for IAF: Manohar Parrikar
    NEW DELHI: The Modi government has sounded the death knell for the deadlocked $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 fighters, which was dubbed the "mother of all defence deals" around the globe after competition for it was launched by the previous UPA regime in 2007.

    Defence minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday also made it clear that if India goes in for additional French Rafale fighters, after the outright purchase of 36 jets decided during the Modi-Hollande summit in Paris last Friday, it will also be through government-to-government deals.

    The stalled final negotiations for the MMRCA project, in which Rafale emerged the winner in January 2012 after a hotly-contested open global competition, had envisaged the induction of 126 fighters - the first 18 through direct acquisition from France, with the rest to be made by Hindustan Aeronautics in India after transfer of technology.

    Even though Parrikar did not utter the words "scrap" or "cancel" in connection with the MMRCA project, he used enough analogies to stress exactly that. "A car cannot travel on two roads at the same time. The other road (MMRCA) had a lot of problems," Parrikar said.

    But the minister did not specify how many additional Rafales would be acquired after the first 36 Rafales are inducted directly from France, which itself is likely to take well over two years. But the number now will certainly not be as much as 126 fighters, with Parrikar holding it would "financially be a very steep slope to climb".

    But he added that "all options are being kept open", including the 'Make in India' component for additional Rafales if required. Holding that "nitty-gritties" are not worked out at the PM-level, he said India and France would now hold discussions on the future course of action. "The fine print of what has been agreed (in the Modi-Hollande summit) is not with me yet," he said.

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi (2nd from left) and French president Francois Hollande (3rd from right) during their meeting at the Elysee Palace in Paris, on April 10, 2015. (AFP photo)

    Concurrently, the Modi government is also trying to improve the serviceability of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for over $12 billion. It is just 55% for the 200 Sukhois inducted till now. The DRDO-HAL combine is also being pushed for faster induction of 120 indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft. "The gap can be filled," said Parrikar.

    "PM Modi has taken a bold decision (to bypass the stalled MMRCA project). Instead of going through the RFP (request for proposal or global tender) route, where there was lot of confusion and chaos, it has been decided to go for the G2G route. My personal opinion is that in certain areas of defence, especially of strategic (non-nuclear) equipment, the G2G route is much better," he added.

    The final negotiations for the MMRCA project with French aviation major Dassault had stalled for over an year now due to the company's continuing refusal to take "full responsibility" for the 108 jets to be made by HAL as well as a stiff hike in their production costs here, as reported earlier by TOI.

    "It had gone into a loop or a vortex. A decision had to be taken to break the vortex since IAF's operational requirement (the force is down to just 34 fighter squadrons) was becoming steeper day-by day. The qualitative selection (of Rafale in the MMRCA contest) was already done," said Parrikar.

    The minister, in fact, pointed to the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative between India and the US to stress that the G2G route was much better in acquiring high-end military hardware. India, incidentally, has inked deals worth over $6 billion with the US for 12 C-130J Super Hercules and 10 C-17 Globemaster-III aircraft without any open tender or competition.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:41 am

    Big will be interesting to see how things develop


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    Post  calripson on Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:05 am

    Time for Russia to start aggressively selling to Pakistan.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:42 pm

    Government withdraws tender for 126 medium multi role combat aircraft: Manohar Parrikar


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    Re: Indian MMRCA competition: News

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:37 am

    George1 wrote:Government withdraws tender for 126 medium multi role combat aircraft: Manohar Parrikar

    MMRCA Tender will be reopened for but now only for 90 AC

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    India’s MMRCA: Implications for Russia

    Post  Pinto on Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:35 pm


    The serial drama of the MMRCA tender; for purchase and licensed production of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft; reached an intermediate junction.

    During a visit in April 2015 to France by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, an announcement was made about the signing of an ‘agreement in principle’ on direct purchase of 36 fighter jets by the Rafale Company which, in 2013, was declared the formal winner of the MMRCA Tender.
    Since then, for over two years, India and France continued commercial negotiations to finalize the contract, but could not arrive at a mutually acceptable compromise to implement the deal. The scale of the purchase announced in April was significantly smaller than initially expected, and, with this deal, production of aircraft in India is no longer part of the agreement.

    There was uncertainty for a while about the future plans of the Indian government and its national Air Force about the licensed production of Rafale fighter jets. It was not known whether this purchase of 36 aircraft was a separate deal, implemented over and above the MMRCA Program, or the purchase constituted just the first tranche of the planned purchase of 126 fighter jets. If the latter was true, then how many planes would be built under license in India?

    Some weeks later, India’s Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar made a sensational announcement; India was going to purchase 36 aircraft from Rafale, and nothing more. The funds thus saved, which should have gone towards the purchase of licensed production of Rafale aircraft, would now be directed to the purchase of 200 Tejas light fighter jets that are produced in India.

    Notwithstanding this announcement, in early August, reports started circulating in the Indian press that the government was going to announce a new tender for the licensed production in India of 90 MMRC fighter jets, but the accuracy of this information is in question.

    If the announcement, made by the Indian minister, reflects the real intentions of the Indian leadership, and is not just an element in the bargaining game with the French, it signifies the actual cancellation of this ambitious project: “the mother of all tenders”. In essence, this means the Indians have gone back to a different, higher quality and lower quantitative level, at which they initially began; the direct purchase from the French of fourth-generation multi-role fighter jets.

    Opportunities for Russia

    The actual cancellation of the MMRCA Tender, theoretically improves Russia’s chances in two ways. First, there is the opportunity to sell one more tranche of Su-30MKI fighter jets to India. The decision on the direct purchase of Rafale fighter jets answers the interests of the military, but it does not solve the issue of new orders for the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Corporation. By early 2015, this company had already manufactured 150 licensed units, and the Indian aircraft manufacturers still had orders for several dozen Su-30MKI. At the present rate of production, in a couple of years, HAL will have completed this order, and then there will be no more work for the company.

    It is logical to assume that, in anticipation of the start of licensed production of the Rafale, if a contract should still be signed or, which is more likely, before the production of the fifth-generation fighter FGFA can start, HAL would have to be given work for another two or three years. Which means India will need to purchase rights to the licensed production of slightly more than 40 Su-30MKI. From a military standpoint, this will create two more squadrons, and cover the normal attrition of these aircraft through accidents and disasters. It would be advisable to build the new technologically modernized version of the Su-30, referred to as the Sukhoi Super.

    Second, and most important, a direct and immediate threat to the joint Russian-Indian fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) project has been removed. The danger in the MMRCA Program lay in the fact that the purchase and licensed production of the obsolescent and extremely expensive French aircraft would have deprived India of resources needed for funding the fifth-generation fighter jets.

    The Rafale was like a vampire – being able to kill the FGFA, and thus rob India of possible access to fifth-generation fighter jet technologies. Over the past two to three years, the real competition in the Indian military aviation market was between the Rafale and FGFA. Among other things, it has become clearly understood that the campaign in the Indian press against FGFA was initiated and financed by the French. Now the Indians have found a compromise (which satisfies neither the French nor the Russians, and this is the best indicator that this solution is best for India), which leaves India with the opportunity to develop in both directions; to purchase the Rafale, while not killing the FGFA.

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