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    Indian MMRCA Tender News

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    adyonfire4
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  adyonfire4 on Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:34 pm

    RAFALE fits the bill because of commonality between Snecma Kaveri Engine and Indias French experience with mirage-2000 helps more. welcome Neutral

    ahmedfire
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  ahmedfire on Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:40 am

    adyonfire4 wrote:RAFALE fits the bill because of commonality between Snecma Kaveri Engine and Indias French experience with mirage-2000 helps more. welcome Neutral

    i think indians will not choose rafale,,it's too expensive and need anew powered engines,,f18 is good..

    i wondered,why russians did not offer su35 instead of mig35 ?!!
    sukhoi has abetter chance.. angel

    GarryB
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:57 am

    The Russians didn't offer the Su-35 because of the M in MRCA... the F-18 is on the very edge of what they want and together with issues with technology transfer and of course being able to use it when they want without some senator or congressperson in the US vetoing spares support if they happen to do something that annoys them, I think the chances of a choice for US aircraft will be pretty slim.
    Of course in politics it seems the US method has been to make verbal promises and to then renege on those promises a few administrations later.

    Obviously there would be no problem with Indian F-18s blowing up Chinese targets, but they wont be allowed to use them against Pakistan... which might be a problem for India.
    F-16s are out of the question because Pakistan operates them.
    Rafale and Typhoon are nice aircraft but very expensive. They might buy Typhoon just for Meteor... but what are their chances of getting a decent model AMRAAM?
    R-77s on a Typhoon or Rafale would be interesting.
    The Mig-35 seems to still be on order for the Russian AF... I suspect the next build Mig-35 we see might have the bigger 10 hardpoint wing perhaps?
    Commonality with existing upgraded Mig-29s would be a plus, and it is probably the cheapest aircraft on offer so is probably the only plane they will get the 126 airframes they wanted for the 10 billion.
    Models at AeroIndia showing the Mig with Club and 1.5 ton LGBs are interesting too.
    Regarding Gripen, on paper it is ideally what they want, but it is not cheap to buy, and as it is pretty much designed to be a net centric fighter they would need to create a net centric environment for it to operate within.
    Potential, but a little bit too much like the LCA really.

    BTW I know I am biased towards the Mig-35 because I have always liked the Mig-29 and the Mig-35 is everything the Mig-29 should have been.

    rkt86
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  rkt86 on Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:17 pm

    The Indian Ministry of Defense has issued letters, on Wednesday, to two of the six vendors competing in the estimated USD 10 billion Indian Air Force (IAF) tender for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), asking them to extend the validity of their commercial bids, which will expire on Thursday, tomorrow.
    StratPost can confirm that the European Eurofighter Typhoon consortium and the French Dassault’s Rafale have been invited to do so, effectively making up the shortlist.
    StratPost can also confirm that according to the IAF and the ministry, the other aircraft in the fray, the US Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, the US Lockheed Martin Corporation’s F-16, the Russian MiG-35 and the Swedish SAAB’s Gripen did not pass the technical evaluation conducted by the IAF.
    It is noteworthy that this comes just a day before the commercial bids of all six vendors were to expire.
    It would not be unsurprising if this move by the ministry and it’s coincidentally sharp timing were to raise the hackles of the spurned vendors. Industry insiders are already expecting to see a robust response from these vendors and their countries of origin, at least in private, to this decision.
    One question some of the vendors losing out are already asking is why the ministry asked all the vendors to resubmit their offset proposals early this month if they already knew the outcome of the technical evaluation submitted by the IAF last summer, and waited till a day before the expiry of the commercial bids to effectively announce a shortlist by inviting extension of commercial bids from only two vendors.
    The commercial bids of the other four vendors will lapse on Thursday, tomorrow.
    Something else the uninvited vendors are ready to question is the basis for judging technical compliance, with robust speculation that none of the MMRCA-6 aircraft were actually completely compliant with the IAF’s 643 parameters listed in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQRs) for the tender.

    http://www.stratpost.com/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist

    GarryB
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:38 am

    Mig clearly save a bit of money not bothering to go to AirIndia 2011 with a real plane.

    nightcrawler
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  nightcrawler on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:19 am

    Obviously there would be no problem with Indian F-18s blowing up Chinese targets, but they wont be allowed to use them against Pakistan... which might be a problem for India.
    We also get F-16 Bl/52Ds...& will be getting further upgraded models...all with the stamps: NOT TO USE AGAINST INDIA

    but really who cares Suspect

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 01, 2011 5:18 am

    We also get F-16 Bl/52Ds...& will be getting further upgraded models...all with the stamps: NOT TO USE AGAINST INDIA

    but really who cares

    I am sure the story will be that PAK airforce F-16s were innocently flying near a target in Pakistan that India happened to be attacking and an Indian aircraft attacked the F-16s which had to defend themselves... what choice did they have?

    I mean the west was perfectly happy to believe Suck Arse Milli Vanili that the Russians invaded Georgia in 2008... Rolling Eyes

    nightcrawler
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun May 01, 2011 11:12 pm

    hehe...yes that will be true...& can you bold the word innocent.
    but in the coming future it will be the Kashmir issue (that British intentionally left unsolved) that will provoke if any aggressive behaviours from our side...why because India already had displayed ruthless behaviour to Kashmiris

    sheytanelkebir
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    We also get F-16 Bl/52Ds...& will be getting further upgraded models...all with the stamps: NOT TO USE AGAINST INDIA

    but really who cares
    I am sure the story will be that PAK airforce F-16s were innocently flying near a target in Pakistan that India happened to be attacking and an Indian aircraft attacked the F-16s which had to defend themselves... what choice did they have?

    I mean the west was perfectly happy to believe Suck Arse Milli Vanili that the Russians invaded Georgia in 2008...  Rolling Eyes
    From what I read about Egyptian F16s they are actually incapable of "firing on" aircraft that the IFF deems "friendly". I am not sure if there is a way to "override" that or not... But its the reason the Egyptians are keeping their Mirage 2000s and looking for NON-US interceptors.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:12 pm

    I am not sure if there is a way to "override" that or not...
    IFF systems generally have a set of codes that can be and will be changed on a regular basis to prevent the enemy learning the codes and emulating them.

    An "enemy" aircraft in an F-16 will appear as enemy as long as their IFF system is not sending the current correct IFF code, so unless they know it they will appear as enemy or unknown.

    Whether the missiles they carry can distinguish a friendly aircraft or not is another matter as another safety feature an AMRAAM locked on an F-16 might develop a fault that makes it break lock at the last second and miss or the warhead fuse might fail to detonate the warhead till the missile is past the target or detonate it prematurely before the missile gets close.

    During the Vietnam war it was found the SA-2 was not as successful as it could have been because the large RCS of the B-52 targets led to the explosive warheads exploding too far from the aircraft to get a reliable kill because of the proximity fuse settings.


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    sheytanelkebir
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I am not sure if there is a way to "override" that or not...
    IFF systems generally have a set of codes that can be and will be changed on a regular basis to prevent the enemy learning the codes and emulating them.

    An "enemy" aircraft in an F-16 will appear as enemy as long as their IFF system is not sending the current correct IFF code, so unless they know it they will appear as enemy or unknown.

    Whether the missiles they carry can distinguish a friendly aircraft or not is another matter as another safety feature an AMRAAM locked on an F-16 might develop a fault that makes it break lock at the last second and miss or the warhead fuse might fail to detonate the warhead till the missile is past the target or detonate it prematurely before the missile gets close.

    During the Vietnam war it was found the SA-2 was not as successful as it could have been because the large RCS of the B-52 targets led to the explosive warheads exploding too far from the aircraft to get a reliable kill because of the proximity fuse settings.
    During the 1991 war Iraqi Mirage F1s were singularly incapable of "launching" radar guided AAMs (super 530F) against western aircraft. No such issues with the Russian planes. The issue of the US/western restrictions on weapons exported to certain countries, and what sort of "backdoors" are built in by design (embedded within the microprocessors / microcontrollers of missiles and weapons system computers) are slightly "mysterious"... but even turkey for example have decided to develop their own "mission computer" for the F16s they operate. The embedded systems in these aircraft are a "black box" to their operators. They don't know what the "configuration" of the weapons computers are and will only "find out" if trying to use the weapon in anger (by which time its too late, on a strategic level, to rearm with aircraft from another supplier).

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:07 am

    That wont be part of the IFF system, it will be amongst the software for the weapons or the radar... it might even be an uploadable thing where the Iraqi aircraft receive a signal from the French for the missiles to fail to achieve lock to prevent them being used against coalition aircraft.


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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:55 pm

    After loosing the MMRCA contract , Hillary Clinton ordered State Department to revive Khalistani terrorism in INDIA

    http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/obama-quietly-reverses-hillarys-get-modi-policy

    mack8
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  mack8 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:36 am

    Why am i not surprised, probably that's only the tip of the iceberg anyway. Few things the US would love more than to transform India into  another one of their puppets, and the biggest one at that. The indian public should be made aware of these US "policies" through every possible means. If India becomes a US puppet, it will be split into numerous little states, easy to dominate and making sure they won't pose a threat to their hegemonic ambitions anymore... as it is today, India has the chance to become the world's fourth superpower, and the americans would really, really hate that happening, don't forget that.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  Dima on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:03 pm

    The strategy of US against Russia has been to cut off revenues coming from their exports (which mainly are Oil, Gas and Military hardware) and starve the Russian mil industries to turn to Government support which will in turn put pressure on budget and force the Russian Govt to either cut back on military spending and R&D or neglect other social/national programmes.

    This has been the case for the last 10-15 years and have been very successful in India where America is armed with a very effective army of agents in the Government; media (not a single independent main stream media now, with even "The Hindu" now in pocket); ex-military guys from Airforce, Navy & Army doing the effective work of deriding the Russian hardware when out of office and when in office creating/delaying projects of Russian origin and favouring the western platforms; and an enormous bunch of Indian lapdogs making a living on American money and those grown up with an obsession for the TV screens.

    This have been the case with all big ticket items that we saw in the last decade when the same could have been bought from the Russian side with an Indian investment and a guaranteed returns for the investment.   

    Even in the case of MMRCA there was sort of bias against the Russian offer and even though it may look very fair with no parallel....it doesn't have to be like that. Its a known secret that there is a section in all branch of services that favours western military stuffs and Airforce is no different. The dogfight over Indian skies did not start with MMRCA deal and it was always there as fighter pilots usually have big egos and its takes a lifettime for some of them to let go their loss in combat to their collegues in another aircraft. That would be no different in the case of Mirage-2000 guys who had to face-off with their MiG-29 counterparts.

    To cite one example ...there has been on Indian TV "Pudding" Ahluwalia (a former Mirage-2000 pilot) in companion with American/European salesman, a former tankman, deriding the Russian products and in particular the MiG-29s. Now this, as I understand, has nothing to do with the lack of  of the Russian jets, but basically has to do with his unforgiving nature to the machine that handed him his ar$e multiple times when in service. So what he was doing is beating the shit out of MiG-29 and its new variants in TV studios knowing fully well that he can never beat the MiG-29s piloted by any competent pilot with his beloved Mirage-2000. But it also does not have to be the single reason for favouring western jets because western business presents a good financial returns for its agents.

    So what could be the case with MMRCA tests?
    RAC-MiG have been stating that their machine performed well in high altitude, the demo radar was found good etc. But the media painted a different picture and so did the machine did not take the cut into the final list.

    Maybee the results and point distribution was very fair........ but what about the entire lot of the service personnel that oversaw and was involved the entire process .....what is their background? What fighters were they flying in the past - Mirage-2000, Jaguar, MiG-27, MiG-21?
    It would be really an eye opener if the basic background of these persons (barring their identity) have been made public so that one can close even the slightest doubt of any bias in the selection process for MMRCA.


    Whatever it may...its really high time for Russia to advise India to pick one...either US or Russia and do exactly what US does...pressure India to buy Russian military hardware (not substandard or under specifications, but as per genuine Indian specifications).

      Current date/time is Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:18 am