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Indian MMRCA Tender News53.97

    Indian MMRCA Tender News

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    adyonfire4
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  adyonfire4 on Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:34 pm

    RAFALE fits the bill because of commonality between Snecma Kaveri Engine and Indias French experience with mirage-2000 helps more. welcome Neutral

    ahmedfire
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  ahmedfire on Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:40 pm

    adyonfire4 wrote:RAFALE fits the bill because of commonality between Snecma Kaveri Engine and Indias French experience with mirage-2000 helps more. welcome Neutral

    i think indians will not choose rafale,,it's too expensive and need anew powered engines,,f18 is good..

    i wondered,why russians did not offer su35 instead of mig35 ?!!
    sukhoi has abetter chance.. angel

    GarryB
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:57 am

    The Russians didn't offer the Su-35 because of the M in MRCA... the F-18 is on the very edge of what they want and together with issues with technology transfer and of course being able to use it when they want without some senator or congressperson in the US vetoing spares support if they happen to do something that annoys them, I think the chances of a choice for US aircraft will be pretty slim.
    Of course in politics it seems the US method has been to make verbal promises and to then renege on those promises a few administrations later.

    Obviously there would be no problem with Indian F-18s blowing up Chinese targets, but they wont be allowed to use them against Pakistan... which might be a problem for India.
    F-16s are out of the question because Pakistan operates them.
    Rafale and Typhoon are nice aircraft but very expensive. They might buy Typhoon just for Meteor... but what are their chances of getting a decent model AMRAAM?
    R-77s on a Typhoon or Rafale would be interesting.
    The Mig-35 seems to still be on order for the Russian AF... I suspect the next build Mig-35 we see might have the bigger 10 hardpoint wing perhaps?
    Commonality with existing upgraded Mig-29s would be a plus, and it is probably the cheapest aircraft on offer so is probably the only plane they will get the 126 airframes they wanted for the 10 billion.
    Models at AeroIndia showing the Mig with Club and 1.5 ton LGBs are interesting too.
    Regarding Gripen, on paper it is ideally what they want, but it is not cheap to buy, and as it is pretty much designed to be a net centric fighter they would need to create a net centric environment for it to operate within.
    Potential, but a little bit too much like the LCA really.

    BTW I know I am biased towards the Mig-35 because I have always liked the Mig-29 and the Mig-35 is everything the Mig-29 should have been.

    rkt86
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  rkt86 on Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:17 pm

    The Indian Ministry of Defense has issued letters, on Wednesday, to two of the six vendors competing in the estimated USD 10 billion Indian Air Force (IAF) tender for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), asking them to extend the validity of their commercial bids, which will expire on Thursday, tomorrow.
    StratPost can confirm that the European Eurofighter Typhoon consortium and the French Dassault’s Rafale have been invited to do so, effectively making up the shortlist.
    StratPost can also confirm that according to the IAF and the ministry, the other aircraft in the fray, the US Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, the US Lockheed Martin Corporation’s F-16, the Russian MiG-35 and the Swedish SAAB’s Gripen did not pass the technical evaluation conducted by the IAF.
    It is noteworthy that this comes just a day before the commercial bids of all six vendors were to expire.
    It would not be unsurprising if this move by the ministry and it’s coincidentally sharp timing were to raise the hackles of the spurned vendors. Industry insiders are already expecting to see a robust response from these vendors and their countries of origin, at least in private, to this decision.
    One question some of the vendors losing out are already asking is why the ministry asked all the vendors to resubmit their offset proposals early this month if they already knew the outcome of the technical evaluation submitted by the IAF last summer, and waited till a day before the expiry of the commercial bids to effectively announce a shortlist by inviting extension of commercial bids from only two vendors.
    The commercial bids of the other four vendors will lapse on Thursday, tomorrow.
    Something else the uninvited vendors are ready to question is the basis for judging technical compliance, with robust speculation that none of the MMRCA-6 aircraft were actually completely compliant with the IAF’s 643 parameters listed in the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQRs) for the tender.

    http://www.stratpost.com/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist

    GarryB
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:38 am

    Mig clearly save a bit of money not bothering to go to AirIndia 2011 with a real plane.

    nightcrawler
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:19 pm

    Obviously there would be no problem with Indian F-18s blowing up Chinese targets, but they wont be allowed to use them against Pakistan... which might be a problem for India.
    We also get F-16 Bl/52Ds...& will be getting further upgraded models...all with the stamps: NOT TO USE AGAINST INDIA

    but really who cares Suspect

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 01, 2011 2:18 am

    We also get F-16 Bl/52Ds...& will be getting further upgraded models...all with the stamps: NOT TO USE AGAINST INDIA

    but really who cares

    I am sure the story will be that PAK airforce F-16s were innocently flying near a target in Pakistan that India happened to be attacking and an Indian aircraft attacked the F-16s which had to defend themselves... what choice did they have?

    I mean the west was perfectly happy to believe Suck Arse Milli Vanili that the Russians invaded Georgia in 2008... Rolling Eyes

    nightcrawler
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun May 01, 2011 8:12 pm

    hehe...yes that will be true...& can you bold the word innocent.
    but in the coming future it will be the Kashmir issue (that British intentionally left unsolved) that will provoke if any aggressive behaviours from our side...why because India already had displayed ruthless behaviour to Kashmiris

    ahmedfire
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    Tellis: US fighters lost MMRCA contract due to technical faults

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:58 am


    Both US bids for a major Indian Air Force fighter contract lost because of technical faults - not US export control policies or corruption in New Dehli, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace scholar Ashley Tellis said in an interview.

    The former American diplomat in New Dehli arrived at his conclusions after a three-week trip to India that included meetings with top Indian government, military and industry officials. The IAF selected the Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon as finalists for the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).

    By excluding the Boeing F/A-18E/F and the Lockheed Martin F-16 - as well as the Saab Gripen and MiG-35 - the Indian government angered Washington DC, as well as set off a wave of speculation that the decision was based on concerns in New Dehli about overly restrictive US export policies.

    But Tellis believes that interpretation of the MMRCA downselect is incorrect, while providing the most detailed assessment of the factors that led to the final decision.

    According to Tellis' sources in the IAF, the F-16IN bid received low marks in the technical evaluation for a slow turn rate and poorer handling performance due to the addition of conformal fuel tanks.

    Those deficiencies made the F-16IN less competitive in dogfights against older F-16 Block 50s, which are operated by Pakistan.

    The Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet was the US government's best shot to win the contract, but it was also hampered in the Indian evaluation by poor manoeuvrability compared to the European fighters, Tellis said.

    Boeing's bid proposed to improve the Super Hornet's power by introducing the General Electric F414 enhanced performance engine (EPE), with 20% higher thrust.

    But the Indian evaluators refused to credit the EPE because it is a developmental item, Tellis said. This contrasted with India's acceptance of active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar technology by the European bidders despite its developmental status.

    "They just gambled on the fact that they were going to get an AESA by the time the airplane was going to enter the force," Tellis said.

    The decision also reflected the IAF's preference for an aircraft with strong dogfighting performance over a combat style emphasising beyond visual range engagements using long-range sensors, Tellis said.

    Indian officials expressed no concerns about the US government's export policies, which would have required heavy monitoring by US officials if certain sensors and avionics systems were included in Boeing's or Lockheed's bid, Tellis said.

    "What they would have done in this case was demand that the vendor [substitute] equipment that did not have [monitoring] constraints," Tellis said. India had agreed to a similar arrangement with the acquisition of the Boeing P-8A Poseidon.

    Despite the initial reaction by Washington officials, both sides are cooling off since the announcement, he added.

    "The damage was certainly serious," Tellis said. "But both sides have understood how this outcome came out and both sides have made efforts to get beyond it. The US is going to win many more competitions in India."

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/06/03/357566/tellis-us-fighters-lost-mmrca-contract-due-to-technical.html

    nightcrawler
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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  nightcrawler on Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:30 pm

    no they loss because they don't want to share their technology

    http://defencedog.blogspot.com/2011/05/mig-failed-but-not-forgotten-mmrca.html

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    We also get F-16 Bl/52Ds...& will be getting further upgraded models...all with the stamps: NOT TO USE AGAINST INDIA

    but really who cares
    I am sure the story will be that PAK airforce F-16s were innocently flying near a target in Pakistan that India happened to be attacking and an Indian aircraft attacked the F-16s which had to defend themselves... what choice did they have?

    I mean the west was perfectly happy to believe Suck Arse Milli Vanili that the Russians invaded Georgia in 2008...  Rolling Eyes
    From what I read about Egyptian F16s they are actually incapable of "firing on" aircraft that the IFF deems "friendly". I am not sure if there is a way to "override" that or not... But its the reason the Egyptians are keeping their Mirage 2000s and looking for NON-US interceptors.

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:12 pm

    I am not sure if there is a way to "override" that or not...
    IFF systems generally have a set of codes that can be and will be changed on a regular basis to prevent the enemy learning the codes and emulating them.

    An "enemy" aircraft in an F-16 will appear as enemy as long as their IFF system is not sending the current correct IFF code, so unless they know it they will appear as enemy or unknown.

    Whether the missiles they carry can distinguish a friendly aircraft or not is another matter as another safety feature an AMRAAM locked on an F-16 might develop a fault that makes it break lock at the last second and miss or the warhead fuse might fail to detonate the warhead till the missile is past the target or detonate it prematurely before the missile gets close.

    During the Vietnam war it was found the SA-2 was not as successful as it could have been because the large RCS of the B-52 targets led to the explosive warheads exploding too far from the aircraft to get a reliable kill because of the proximity fuse settings.


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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I am not sure if there is a way to "override" that or not...
    IFF systems generally have a set of codes that can be and will be changed on a regular basis to prevent the enemy learning the codes and emulating them.

    An "enemy" aircraft in an F-16 will appear as enemy as long as their IFF system is not sending the current correct IFF code, so unless they know it they will appear as enemy or unknown.

    Whether the missiles they carry can distinguish a friendly aircraft or not is another matter as another safety feature an AMRAAM locked on an F-16 might develop a fault that makes it break lock at the last second and miss or the warhead fuse might fail to detonate the warhead till the missile is past the target or detonate it prematurely before the missile gets close.

    During the Vietnam war it was found the SA-2 was not as successful as it could have been because the large RCS of the B-52 targets led to the explosive warheads exploding too far from the aircraft to get a reliable kill because of the proximity fuse settings.
    During the 1991 war Iraqi Mirage F1s were singularly incapable of "launching" radar guided AAMs (super 530F) against western aircraft. No such issues with the Russian planes. The issue of the US/western restrictions on weapons exported to certain countries, and what sort of "backdoors" are built in by design (embedded within the microprocessors / microcontrollers of missiles and weapons system computers) are slightly "mysterious"... but even turkey for example have decided to develop their own "mission computer" for the F16s they operate. The embedded systems in these aircraft are a "black box" to their operators. They don't know what the "configuration" of the weapons computers are and will only "find out" if trying to use the weapon in anger (by which time its too late, on a strategic level, to rearm with aircraft from another supplier).

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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:07 am

    That wont be part of the IFF system, it will be amongst the software for the weapons or the radar... it might even be an uploadable thing where the Iraqi aircraft receive a signal from the French for the missiles to fail to achieve lock to prevent them being used against coalition aircraft.


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    Re: Indian MMRCA Tender News

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:55 pm

    After loosing the MMRCA contract , Hillary Clinton ordered State Department to revive Khalistani terrorism in INDIA

    http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/obama-quietly-reverses-hillarys-get-modi-policy

      Current date/time is Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:08 pm