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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

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    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:28 pm


    ----------------------
    Lugansk

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:43 pm



    Lyashko (leader of Radical party of Ukraine) calls to shoot Lugasnk residents yesterday:


    Farion (education & science minister) calls to shoot people today:


    Tsaryov (Party of Regions deputy) gives the middle finger to Lyashko in the Rada today:


    Source confirming the report about Avakov threatening to sack 1/3rd of Kharkov's police
    http://www.vladtime.ru/obsh/365390-avakov-v-harkove-budut-uvoleny-30-milicionerov.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:59 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Come on Werewolf, we have plenty of American members here too - and they're among the most knowledgable.

    You have a hard time to read properly?

    Majority, most is not a generalisation. All is a generalisation and i never said that. I am aware of the american citizen in this forum and i haven't insulted a single one of them, except of one or two trolls which are obvious the rest is quite decent folks in this forum regardless where they are from, but my point stays and is proven once more.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:05 pm

    The regime just keeps digging a bigger hole for itself

    Punishment for seperatism raised to a maximum of 15 years:
    http://www.pravda.ru/news/world/formerussr/ukraine/08-04-2014/1203732-ukraine-0/

    More than it was in the USSR actually.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:42 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    But the main problem is that the protestors in Donetsk and Lugansk, while doing a lot better than last time - have failed to secure the rest of the city - police departments, TV & radio stations, airports, train stations, etc...

    This is what angers me most about Ukrainians.. The allow Neo Nazis to remove their democratically elected Government and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to counter the protest and defend their land.. and now that they kicked YAkunovych , the still continue doing NOTHING.  Ukraine have 45 millions citizens and i find hard to believe that only ~2,000 -~3000 show up  on average to protest in the east. and only on weekends,is so fucking stupid , the passiveness of the majority of people in the east. that makes you wonder if they are not worth the sacrifices of Russia doing what they did in Crimea..  IF the Ukranians really believe the next elections will fix things in their country ,with Neo nazis in power ,in a rigged elections.. is fucking  unbelievable how passive and careless are Pro Russian ukranians for anything.

    If what happens in Ukraine an illegal coup to a democratic government ,happened in any country of Latin America ,you will see millions on the streets protesting. not just a couple of thousands. This is the reason why the Venezuela uprising is failing. USA tried in 2002 to remove chavez ,by a coup using the army.. and MILLIONS and millions of chavez supporters with the help of a loyal police took control back of the country and reversed the military coup. Is so disgusting ,that is an insult. I have seen protest a million times bigger that the ones done in eastern Ukraine ,protest of millions in far smaller countries ,for far less problems that the ones ukraine have.

    in closing i don't see ever USA losing control ever of Ukraine ,after they spend so many billions financing a coup. With such pathetic Ukrainians in the eastern and southern regions that prefer that others do the job for them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:56 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    But the main problem is that the protestors in Donetsk and Lugansk, while doing a lot better than last time - have failed to secure the rest of the city - police departments, TV & radio stations, airports, train stations, etc...

    This is what angers me most about Ukrainians.. The allow Neo Nazis to remove their democratically elected Government and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to counter the protest and defend their land.. and now that they kicked YAkunovych , the still continue doing NOTHING.  Ukraine have 45 millions citizens and i find hard to believe that only ~2,000 -~3000 show up  on average to protest in the east. and only on weekends,is so fucking stupid , the passiveness of the majority of people in the east. that makes you wonder if they are not worth the sacrifices of Russia doing what they did in Crimea..  IF the Ukranians really believe the next elections will fix things in their country ,with Neo nazis in power ,in a rigged elections.. is fucking  unbelievable how passive and careless are Pro Russian ukranians for anything.

    If what happens in Ukraine an illegal coup to a democratic government ,happened in any country of Latin America ,you will see millions on the streets protesting. not just a couple of thousands. This is the reason why the Venezuela uprising is failing. USA tried in 2002 to remove chavez ,by a coup using the army.. and MILLIONS and millions of chavez supporters with the help of a loyal police took control back of the country and reversed the military coup. Is so disgusting ,that is an insult. I have seen protest a million times bigger that the ones done in eastern Ukraine ,protest of millions in far smaller countries ,for far less problems that the ones ukraine have.

    in closing i don't see ever USA losing control ever of Ukraine ,after they spend so many billions financing a coup. With such pathetic Ukrainians in the eastern and southern regions that prefer that others do the job for them.

    It's not worth the sacrifices, that's why Russia isn't doing anything.

    If more people bothered to come, if Russia was sure that the entire population supports it there - then yes, it can take the hit in order to protect them.
    But if they don't even want to help themselves, what can we do?
    If only a few thousand at most come to occupy the buildings, to show support for the protestors in the administration, SBU buildings, etc... - then how can we be sure that these people represent what most of the population thinks?
    How can we be sure that we will be greeted with flowers, not grenades?

    Even the Crimea was questionable.
    Basically only in Sevastopol, did they have an actual proper uprising, with 15-20% of the city's population actually rising up and deposing their mayor, electing a new one who started to organise checkpoints, militias, etc...
    And all the local security and other government structures there instantly subordinated to him, no takeovers neccessery, because they recognized the overwhelming will of the people, and wanted the same things themselves besides.

    The rest of Crimea basically got as far as a few mass rallies and no further, getting their ass-beat by a rival gathering of 10,000 Crimean Tatars (accounting for no more than 12-15% of Crimean population, as opposed to how much Russians represent), organised by an organisation that represents far from all of them at that.
    Right after that Russia basically took over and did all the hard work for them. And only when the referendum took place, ONLY THEN, did it suddenly become apparent just how much the Crimean population is in favour of Russia. Where were all these people before? They wanted into Russia so badly, that they weren't even prepared to get off the couch for it.

    We need 50,000 in Donetsk.
    25,000 in Lugansk.
    75,000 in Kharkov.
    MINIMUM amount of people for each of these respective cities - rallying at the squares, occupying the buildings, building barricades, facing down police and militias, heavy equipment sent by the putschists in Kiev to mow down these rebellions.

    THEN, maybe, we can talk about Russia doing something to help.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:22 pm



    Banderlogs are doing what they want in Hero city Odessa; local population is not doing shit about it. They're just scared, or unconcerned so long as it's not them in the firing line.

    Look at this. Odessa. Which held up by itself longer than France & Poland combined in WW2. Now has this scum walking the street and enforcing their own laws, rules, beating up anyone whose look they don't like.

    How the hell is this being tolerated? I would've grabbed the flamethrower and roasted these punks the minute I saw these unclean abominations in my city.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:27 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:25 pm

    We need 50,000 in Donetsk.
    25,000 in Lugansk.
    75,000 in Kharkov.
    MINIMUM amount of people for each of these respective cities - rallying at the squares, occupying the buildings, building barricades, facing down police and militias, heavy equipment sent by the putschists in Kiev to mow down these rebellions.

    THEN, maybe, we can talk about Russia doing something to help.


    In two weeks, when they will be completely desperate for not receiving any pensions and salaries.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:56 pm

    This is more like it:



    Reinforcements on their way to the Lugansk SBU building.

    Not a bad showing at all considering that the city itself has a population of not much over 400,000.

    They need to keep building up the crowd, build more barricades, and try to expand their activities. Organise volunteers into groups, and leave enough for the SBU, enough for the regional adminsitration; but send others to the TV station, MVD, train station, whatever.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:58 pm

    Tanks heading for Ukraine’s Lugansk on Kiev order

    Self-defense squads from Ukraine’s south-east are getting ready for an armed attack. One of the self defense activists Yury Germes told Russian news outlet 'Lifenews' that tanks were on their way to Lugansk right after the negotiations with Ukraine’s interior ministry.

    "Citizens are all wound up. Lugansk residents are demanding a referendum on self-determination. It was hard to negotiate with the interior ministry representatives. We’ve just got info on six armored vehicles and soldiers heading for Lugansk. We will not give in. There must be a referendum!" According to the activist, the self defense squads got the update from the militia scattered all around Ukraine’s south-east.

    On April 7 Lugansk protesters seized Ukraine’s security service building and is still controlling it. The basic demands that they put forward are holding a cross-region referendum and Ukraine gaining the status of a federation.

    Kiev pursues wrong policy - Donetsk mayor

    Donetsk mayor Alexander Lukyanchenko has blamed Kiev for pursuing the wrong policy, saying it is the reason behind protests in the southeast of the country. "New Ukrainian authorities do not quite understand what is happening in Donetsk now," Lukyanchenko said on Tuesday. "Indeed, the seizure of administrative buildings is illegal and bad. Separatist slogans that were voiced in city squares are unacceptable. Yet all these problems are a consequence of the new authorities' incorrect policy, their unwillingness to look into the problems to understand them," the mayor's press office quoted him as saying.

    A recent statement by parliament-appointed Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk did not contain "specific proposals" to improve the situation, such as the measures to protect the Russian language, ensure election of governors or explain the delegation of powers in decentralization procedure.

    Lukyanchenko said "the answers to these questions were needed yesterday."

    "I'm hoping the government and the parliament will hear people in Donbas (Donetsk and adjacent regions) and southeast. If they don't, and if people do not get answers to their questions, they will continue to hope for the protection of the neighboring state," the mayor said.

    He noted that the new authorities "should understand that negotiating with people implies discussion of the accumulated problems, the problems that did not emerge overnight."

    "Only then will people be able to say that Donbas is (part of) Ukraine," he said.

    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_08/Tanks-heading-for-Ukraine-s-Lugansk-on-Kiev-order-0126/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:07 pm

    Rumours of some sort of military units on their way to Donetsk

    These are just rumours for the moment, an early report from a 2nd hand source.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:10 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    We need 50,000 in Donetsk.
    25,000 in Lugansk.
    75,000 in Kharkov.
    MINIMUM amount of people for each of these respective cities - rallying at the squares, occupying the buildings, building barricades, facing down police and militias, heavy equipment sent by the putschists in Kiev to mow down these rebellions.

    THEN, maybe, we can talk about Russia doing something to help.


    In two weeks, when they will be completely desperate for not receiving any pensions and salaries.

    Which would happen anyway due to IMF conditionalities and austerity measures, so they better protest their asses off before it's too late!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:17 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Rumours of some sort of military units on their way to Donetsk

    These are just rumours for the moment, an early report from a 2nd hand source.

    If the Kiev putschists are stupid enough to send tanks than their whole "human rights" tired-old schtick and demagoguery will unravel and if worst comes to worst we might see a Grozny type scenario...ironic because Ukraine's main tank is based off of the infamous T-80UD lol!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Firebird on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:30 pm

    Earlier today, I had a feeling Russia would, or rather *could* be liberating the Ukraine militarily within the next 7 days, or much less.

    This was when Lavrov talked about "talks in 10 days".

    Its starting to look like Russia MUST intervene. THe Kiev junta (and their US backers) are scum, like the 1940s Nazis, like the Chechen terrorists.

    If Russia held back, the results could be unspeakably terrible.

    Lets hope intervention will be simple, clean and conclusive. 
    It seems to be a last throw of the dice from the vermin in Kiev. These have the moronic mentality of Sahkashvilli's kind ie detached from reality and basic norms of behaviour.

    And what does Russia lose vs the West? The (cough) "right" to prop up the dollar as its bizarre, outdated single reserve currency status.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:36 pm


    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:08 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Banderlogs are doing what they want in Hero city Odessa; local population is not doing shit about it. They're just scared, or unconcerned so long as it's not them in the firing line.

    Look at this. Odessa. Which held up by itself longer than France & Poland combined in WW2. Now has this scum walking the street and enforcing their own laws, rules, beating up anyone whose look they don't like.

    How the hell is this being tolerated? I would've grabbed the flamethrower and roasted these punks the minute I saw these unclean abominations in my city.

    Dear Python
    Drastic  changes and revolutions do happen from the organised 3-5% 0f the population not the 30-60%
    I ve seen the video and seen the passing by  people. They are scared and have no hope yet (the speach of Putin didn't helped on that)
    Organised groups can change the climate not only in the east but in total of Ukraine.

    The desperate financing will get worst evey day the situation is floating.
    Ukraine has a lot of vanurable spots, that even 20 people can make the country get her down her  kness financially


    . I guess you have the imagination to understand some of them..

    see how many green triangle there are around ?
    As you said .. right now is risky to move. perhaps was easier 20 days ago. Even so ACTIVE oposition is needed not defensive in the east

    Transfer the war to the WEST - Kiev and Lvov.  Scare away the potensial investors. Convice Germans that will loose their money in Ukraine.

    Now the new owner of he house has some power .. but also  ALL the responsibility .. so f... them where it hurts.
    perhaps time will work in our side
    ----------------------------------
    UKRAINE .. an Ex Parrot (Monty Pythons..)



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:00 am


    no more talking

    action now

    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:29 am


    Who twits with #euromaidan hashtag

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:07 am

    arpakola wrote:


    . I guess you have the imagination to understand some of them..

    see how many green triangle there are around ?

    I'm afraid I haven't quite caught onto your train of thought.

    Why the electric grid and underground gas storage facilities?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Regular on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:29 am

    So is true that pro Russian forces are armed with AKs, IEDs and RPGs and they have hostages too?
    IMHO, Sounds BS to me, a pretext to use deadly force. We have heard similar nonsense by Soviet media when January events happened in Vilnius before shit hit the fan.

    Finally unbiased report from BBC
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26941774

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:31 am

    I just had to post this.  Smile 




    In Crimea, it has been reported, they give Russian passports to the people wanting them. This implies that they are getting a Russian citizenship as well and probably cancellation of their citizenship of Ukraine, because as as far I remember, Ukrainian laws don’t permit having another citizenship. This is probably a pretty routine procedure there now, however a notable case occurred some time ago, as in one of the Crimean villages a man, Yuri, came for his new Russian passport and failed to present his Ukrainian one – as reported by the Sudakonline local Crimean website. When asked where his Ukrainian passport was, the man said he refused to accept Ukrainian citizenship and for twenty three years held his old Soviet passport, and now he came to get a new Russian passport.
    Link


    Last edited by AlfaT8 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:18 am

    Regular wrote:Finally unbiased report from BBC

    By definition that's an impossibility for BBC to publish an unbiased report.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:50 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    We need 50,000 in Donetsk.
    25,000 in Lugansk.
    75,000 in Kharkov.
    MINIMUM amount of people for each of these respective cities - rallying at the squares, occupying the buildings, building barricades, facing down police and militias, heavy equipment sent by the putschists in Kiev to mow down these rebellions.

    THEN, maybe, we can talk about Russia doing something to help.

    Not really thats not even good enough..  Venezuela have only 30millions citizens ,Ukraine have 45 millions ,and Chavez could easily pull 1 million rallies across the entire country in different cities at the same time ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7FTSEEBAUE

    Ukraine needs no less that 1 million on the streets protesting the new Kiev-NATO junta.
    demanding full either full autonomy or independence from Kiev.
    200,000 in Donetsk
    100,000 in kahrkov
    50,000  in lugansk
    75,000 in Odessa

    And at the same time people moving to the capital of kiev at least 50,000 demanding they to resign.
    Even Assad in syria with just 20 millions citizens could pull rallies of 1 million.. Probably the problem is Ukrainians lacks of leadership,
    because Yakunovych is a disgrace as leader. someone that could encourage people to fight for their rights and their future. Crimea had leaders from the start that organized. Eastern Ukraine have no leaders.
    Violence is not need at all ,or burning buildings ,but people participation resisting police orders and invading Government buildings.
    The pathetic activism of Pro Russian factions ,i do not see how they are worthy of any attention. In fact one journalist was interviewing people near kiev about what they think about the protest in kiev.. and he was Pro Russia.. but his aptitude was ,he have better thing to do ,than to protest.. that he better go to work..  Last information i saw , is that Russia have 750,000 Ukrainians that moved to Russia for a job in Russia.. Imagine that.. 750,000? and the money they earn ,they use it to help their family in Ukraine.. perhaps Russia will need to start cutting all jobs they give to Ukrainians ,to stop helping maintain an artificial country like Ukraine that have no history and was created in 1918 by Germany to half Russia empire expansion to the west.. Because thats exactly the reason Ukraine can survive as a nation and not disbanded yet. because Russia but also western Europe/poland , provide millions of jobs to ukrainians ,that the country by its own cannot offer.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:45 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    We need 50,000 in Donetsk.
    25,000 in Lugansk.
    75,000 in Kharkov.
    MINIMUM amount of people for each of these respective cities - rallying at the squares, occupying the buildings, building barricades, facing down police and militias, heavy equipment sent by the putschists in Kiev to mow down these rebellions.

    THEN, maybe, we can talk about Russia doing something to help.

    Not really thats not even good enough..  Venezuela have only 30millions citizens ,Ukraine have 45 millions ,and Chavez could easily pull 1 million rallies across the entire country in different cities at the same time ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7FTSEEBAUE

    Ukraine needs no less that 1 million on the streets protesting the new Kiev-NATO junta.
    demanding full either full autonomy or independence from Kiev.
    200,000 in Donetsk
    100,000 in kahrkov
    50,000  in lugansk
    75,000 in Odessa

    And at the same time people moving to the capital of kiev at least 50,000 demanding they to resign.
    Even Assad in syria with just 20 millions citizens could pull rallies of 1 million.. Probably the problem is Ukrainians lacks of leadership,
    because Yakunovych is a disgrace as leader. someone that could encourage people to fight for their rights and their future. Crimea had leaders from the start that organized. Eastern Ukraine have no leaders.
    Violence is not need at all ,or burning buildings ,but people participation resisting police orders and invading Government buildings.
    The pathetic activism of Pro Russian factions ,i do not see how they are worthy of any attention. In fact one journalist was interviewing people near kiev about what they think about the protest in kiev.. and he was Pro Russia.. but his aptitude was ,he have better thing to do ,than to protest.. that he better go to work..  Last information i saw , is that Russia have 750,000 Ukrainians that moved to Russia for a job in Russia.. Imagine that.. 750,000? and the money they earn ,they use it to help their family in Ukraine.. perhaps Russia will need to start cutting all jobs they give to Ukrainians ,to stop helping maintain an artificial country like Ukraine that have no history and was created in 1918 by Germany to half Russia empire expansion to the west.. Because thats exactly the reason Ukraine can survive as a nation and not disbanded yet. because Russia but also western Europe/poland , provide millions of jobs to ukrainians ,that the country by its own cannot offer.

    this is the difference between sheeps and wolfs

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  arpakola on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:49 am

    Ukranian BTRs moving on Lugansk. Novoaidar. 8.04.2014



    Ukraine is moving some armor to the border near Horodnia (north of Kiev)



    rmor reported to be heading to Lugansk

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