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Pugnax
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    Body Armour and Protection systems

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:53 am

    I think it looks cool... and if it stops me getting shot... I will carry it. Razz
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:06 am

    Sorry for the length of this link, it is a translated page:

    http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://www.arms-expo.ru/055057052124050053053050050.html&usg=ALkJrhhuXfR2KOducF69luDbstuV4_iDrw

    It is interesting as it talks about the Russian domestic equivalent of Felin... that is the French FELIN system but using Russian components.

    It talks about Felin (French)and its domestic equivalent and also Barmitsa (Russian) but pretty much only mentions the existence of Future Warrior (US).
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    SWAT Pointman


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    Post  SWAT Pointman Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:30 pm

    Are Russian soldiers issued body armor? If so, what kind? And type of armor were Soviet Soldiers issued if they had any?
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:28 pm

    SWAT Pointman wrote:Are Russian soldiers issued body armor? If so, what kind? And type of armor were Soviet Soldiers issued if they had any?

    Yes. Can't really give you any more details; except that there is a shortage of it even now. Soviet soldiers had it issued to.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:37 pm

    Way too many different kinds.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:36 am

    Soviet soldiers were issued body armour in WWII.

    In urban combat the first in the door often had steel plate body armour to protect from grenade fragments and SMG bullets...

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    Post  SWAT Pointman Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:Soviet soldiers were issued body armour in WWII.

    In urban combat the first in the door often had steel plate body armour to protect from grenade fragments and SMG bullets...

    Body Armour and Protection systems - Page 3 38692710
    I'm pretty sure I read that was experimental and wasn't considered very effective. Even the US didn't have effective body armor until after the Vietnam war.
    Zivo
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    Post  Zivo Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:12 pm

    It went into production and was issued mainly to engineers in limited numbers. It could stop a 9mm round at a distance.

    Of course a significant percentage of the Wehrmacht used the Kar-98, which went right through it.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:44 am

    It was quite widely used, the purpose was not to make the soldiers bullet proof, the intention was to reduce casualties to fragments.

    Full power rifle cartridges would penetrate from pretty much any range, but as Zivo mentions there were a lot of SMGs and pistols used in urban combat and these vests could stop 9mm most of the time. The real threat was fragments from grenades which were very heavily used by both sides in urban fighting.

    The hint is that even in Vietnam they weren't called bullet proof vests... they were called flak jackets... which is exactly what they were.

    Note these vests were not worn by entire units... generally it was the first guy in the door that wore such equipment as they were the most likely to get hurt if there was a grenade that still hadn't gone off by the time he entered. Also another trick both sides liked to do was wait till the enemy grenades went off in a room and then they threw their own grenades in, so that the enemy forces would burst into the room to shoot at anything that moved and then boom the enemies grenades went off.
    KomissarBojanchev
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:04 am

    Do regular Russian mechanized troops have any standard issue body armor or helmets capable of stopping any 5,56mm or larger bullet?
    Regular
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    Post  Regular Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:39 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Do regular Russian mechanized troops have any standard issue  body armor  or helmets capable of stopping any 5,56mm  or larger bullet?
    There is nothing standard in Russian army.. Older and more common 6B12 body armour for example has good protection qualities, it stops 5.45 bullet.
    And Russia has loads of helmets too, first gen. 6B7 for example could theoretic stop 5.45 or even 7.62x39. But I'm pretty sure that even if Your helmet stops rifle bullet, Your gonna experience new childhood. And even if the bullet hits side of Your helmet, then mash potatoes through the tube will be Your only dinner for rest of your life.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:58 am

    Something also to keep in mind... what makes modern vests able to stop heavy rounds like rifle rounds is the hard armour plates... sometimes metal, sometimes ceramic... never cover everything.

    Generally they will cover upper chest and rear chest.

    A gut shot will not be stopped and nor will a shot from the side.
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    chaosactor


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    Post  chaosactor Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:41 pm

    Hi

    I am currently doing a study at university into the effect of weight carriage on the soldier and particularly looking whether heavier body armour actually provides less protection because the soldier is less maneuverable. I have a good idea of the academic arguments, but now want to see what soldiers actual experience is.

    I do not want to know about protection levels of various body armours, but what I am hoping is to find out where body armours rub, where you get prickly heat, what parts get caught on vehicles and just generally how body armour fit hinders your ability to do your job.

    I am interested in all body armour comments, but my study is going to be based on the following armours if you have any personal experience of them.

    1. Australian TBAS
    2. British ECBA
    3. British Osprey
    4. Canadian FPV
    5. Chinese EBA
    6. Danish TYR
    7. Russian 6B43
    8. US Interceptor
    9. Paraclete Alpha 1
    10. Pinnacle Dragon Skin

    Many thanks in advance...
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:42 am

    My only experience with body armour is carrying a crate full of them with another conscript to the HQ building. I wanted to at least take a look but didn't get the chance. Was only told that they're out of date and are being withdrawn from service. Soviet Afghan-era I think; not the 6B42/43 or anything like that.

    Didn't get the point personally. Any armour is better than no armour. That's military bureaucracy for you.

    So yeah anyway.. personal experience.
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:24 pm

    theyre good for keeping your bits and pieces together for the morgue  Twisted Evil 
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    Post  chaosactor Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:19 pm

    Thanks for this information - I am not sure if it will progress my research, but it amused me!

    So is body armour not issued to all Russian troops?  Your suggestion seems to be that you did not get anything else to replace these old armours.

    Also do you know what the current armour issued to Russian troops is? I guessed it was the 6B43.
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    Post  chaosactor Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:09 pm

    Body Armour and Protection systems - Page 3 Body_a12
    Pugnax
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    Post  Pugnax Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:02 am

    Body armour is wonderful,of the 750k US personelle rotating through Iraq,only 4000 dead and 65000 wounded.Problem arises when the enemy plays the ever increased IED stack .Guys are arriving at aid stations with either a blemish and cracked ribs or so majorly fubar that nothing can save them.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:00 am

    So is body armour not issued to all Russian troops?

    Not issued to non combat units in peaceful areas whose greatest threat to life and limb is boredom... Smile

    Recently watched a new video about Ratnik... the new combat gear to be introduced into widespread service starting this year. It mentioned the helmet is 1kg and the old body armour was 8kg but the new stuff is 6kg.

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:40 pm

    chaosactor wrote:Thanks for this information - I am not sure if it will progress my research, but it amused me!

    So is body armour not issued to all Russian troops?  Your suggestion seems to be that you did not get anything else to replace these old armours.

    Also do you know what the current armour issued to Russian troops is? I guessed it was the 6B43.

    GarryB wrote:Not issued to non combat units in peaceful areas whose greatest threat to life and limb is boredom...  Smile

    Exactly. Our unit for example had a different purpose and while defense was a requirement, it wasn't a priority as we were deep in Russian territory, as such our equipment was all from the 70s.

    As for current body armour, yes I would imagine the 6B43 is standard issue but as we can see from the crisis in the Ukraine, the 6B13, 6B23 or whatever they are stocks are still being issued and utilized.
    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:22 pm

    Hmm, instead of dilly dallying w/ exosuits what about performance enhancing drugs? Basically you get a ripped dude, strap him inside a 30 or so kg juggernaut suit(small arms proof - only a direct RPG can fck its hardest armor), pump him full of adrenaline/steroids cocktails and or maybe agression drugs. Arm him with and Pecheneg plus lots of belt ammo and let the guy loose on the enemy.  Twisted Evil 
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:04 am

    There is not winning when it comes to body armour... even an Abrams tank can be defeated, so there is no point in trying to protect everyone from everything.

    The key is to protect from the most common threat... which is actually a bullet to the central chest area and fragments the rest of the torso.

    Even the best modern body armour wont stop a rifle bullet to the hip or elbow.

    A more correct term is flak jacket which is a much better description.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:51 am

    Standard Issue I imagine is 6b23 kevlar with the 6b43 being tested for Ratnik and will come out for special units sometime in the future.
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    Post  Regular Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:16 pm

    I had relationship with body armour to the point that I had responsibility to check some fellow slackers if they are carrying all plates :)Body armour was issued to all of us, unfortunately, it was more or less torturing device than protection.
    I can only talk about local Lithuanian made tactical vest as I've served there. I'm not clear about stats, for us it weighted a ton.
    Body Armour and Protection systems - Page 3 SQO3tIf
    I can roughly say it weights more than 20 kg if fully loaded with neck biceps and between legs protection.
    Level IV protection. But fuel kit was only for gunners as they are very exposed.
    It was hard to shoot with AK-4, mostly because we had tactical rigs as well, but you can get used to it.
    My experience is very subjective as I've only have met only limited kit.
    I've seen some old Danish body armours, but never seen them to be issued. Looked like crape, no mole, no nothing.

    By the way, is it true that in wet conditions Kevlar plates loose their stopping power? Or is it ceramics? Or it's just soldier myth?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:29 pm

    Standard Issue I imagine is 6b23 kevlar with the 6b43 being tested for Ratnik and will come out for special units sometime in the future.

    Ratnik will likely go to special units first but it is standard kit for all Russian units so all will eventually get them.

    AFAIK water should not effect Kevlar, or the European equivalent aramide fibre.

    Both work in a very similar way to spider silk and convert tension energy into heat... they should work wet or dry.

    Reminds me of a commonwealth myth before WWII that Japanese planes were made of rice paper which made them light and manoeuvrable, but meant they couldn't fly in the rain...

    Not as harmful as the myth about the Japanese Knee mortar being fired from the thigh... ouch!

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