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Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB

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Post n°46

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:12 pm

I would guess that 15kg armour was for entry teams for the first guy through the door that always gets shot.

As it is highest level protection it is probably also worn by bomb disposal guys as well.

I doubt they would issue it to anyone who has to run or climb or jump.

Having said that I just finished reading about Soviet soldiers fighting near Murmansk in 1944 and the forces operating behind enemy lines had equipment loads of 40kgs or more as they had to carry absolutely everything with them and operate about 200km north of the Arctic circle.

GarryB

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Post n°47

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:47 pm

Was browsing a site and found that the 15kg body armour they are talking about is designed to stop 338 Laupa Magnum armour piercing bullets from 300m so it is not likely designed for paratrooper use or even standard soldier use.

It is most likely for that first guy in an entry team that is most likely to get shot as they enter. The combination of this vest and a hand held shield there is probably not much short of an RPG that will reliably stop them.

Pervius

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Post n°48

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Pervius Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:17 pm

Is Body Armor obsolete?

The US sold the LRAD sound weapons to China. Couldn't that or a beefed up version just be used on someone with body armor?

I noticed the Chinese military released a photo of their military wearing some kind of EMF gear to protect them from energy. What is that all about? I have never seen any photo's of Russian or American troops wearing gear to protect them from energy.

I think the next battlefield will have some very powerful sound weapons, which body army won't help you in.

GarryB

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Post n°49

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:04 am

The combination of ear plugs and the 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher would be the best defence against such a system.

That sound weapon system is not meant to injure or incapacitate and it is certainly not intended to be used against armed attackers.

It is a water cannon to break up demonstrators... something you can use when you find members in the crowd with helmets and gas masks and batons stirring up trouble... not something you point at ma and pa at a rally.

Most people think body armour is to save soldiers from bullets but the majority of instances it is to protect the soldier from fragments... that is why it is called a Flak jacket... flak being a term for shrapnel or shell fragments, though often associated with anti aircraft guns because they tend to fire HE shells that detonate a the height the enemy bomber stream is operating at. In the planes the threat is shell fragments from shells exploding all around them.

They are heavy and uncomfortable... but when they do their job they are your best friend... Wink

Pervius

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Post n°50

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Pervius Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:28 pm

""It is a water cannon to break up demonstrators... something you can use when you find members in the crowd with helmets and gas masks and batons stirring up trouble... not something you point at ma and pa at a rally."""

I was talking about the sound weapon. Apparently it was ruled not a weapon...to get around US export laws and sell to China. It is something you point at ma an pa. They have smaller versions the Secret Service uses to deny area access to people.....when they need to.

...And those are the "police" versions. I'd imagine they have more powerful types. Russia spent time developing and working on their own equivalents.....as I said...Directed Energy thwarts Body Armor.

GarryB

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Post n°51

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:13 am

I was talking about the sound weapon. Apparently it was ruled not a weapon...to get around US export laws and sell to China. It is something you point at ma an pa. They have smaller versions the Secret Service uses to deny area access to people.....when they need to.

What I meant is that it is hardly a weapon of war... you will not find bits of people and dead bodies scattered over the battlefield because of this.

A sound wave can be concentrated and used to cause serious discomfort, but at the end of the day ear plugs, and a physical shield with sound insulation lining will block and deflect sound waves.

It is not some super weapon... the big flat antenna they use to direct the sound waves can be targeted and destroyed. The van that carries the electronics and power supply can be blown up in a war situation.

It is potentially a weapon of war but not ideal and not all powerful.

In fact in many ways it might be a useful short range communication option that to be intercepted the enemy needs to get directly between those communicating with this.

GarryB

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Post n°52

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:55 am

In many ways a blinding laser is much easier to create... in fact there are surgical lasers in use right now that cut through flesh as easy as a red hot knife would cut through butter, so using it at significant distances to blind would not really be that difficult.

The problem is that what you can use can be used against you so while you might fear being blinded or deafened permanently then so does your enemy so to prevent it neither will use it.

A desperate enemy that does use it may find it rather easy to counter and that when used against you it is just as effective as it is against them so any advantages you might get from it are lost when it is eventually used against you.

Cyberspec

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Post n°53

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Cyberspec Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:04 pm

They've ordered an initial batch of the new type of body armour shown on Maks, but I didn't save the report and I can't find it now.

...

Speaking of Laser jamers, this look interesting

PAPV - portable optical and electronic countermeasures device
http://www.kbtochmash.ru/products/products_5.html

Countermeasures device is unveiled

The Nudelman company is featuring its portable automatic device for optical
and electronic countermeasures (PAPV), which using a built-in laser radar, has
been developed to detect camouflaged snipers or antitank systems.

Moreover, after detecting the target, the power-emitting laser may ‘blind’ the enemy’s
optical or optoelectronic equipment, but since its operation is non-lethal,
its use is allowed under the Geneva Convention.

An important feature of the PAPV is its target selectivity, achieved by the
use of special processing algorithms that eliminate signals reflected from
glass, viewfinders and other diffusion reflecting objects. However, the system
can disable a fighter or equipment for a long period.

The PAPV’s operating range is 0.3-1.5km and it weighs 56kg.

To ease portability it can be divided into two parts, each weighing 28kg. These
modules consist of the radiation and power supply units as well as the storage
battery and the night vision device.

The PAPV is being promoted on world markets by Rosoboronexport for
use by special army and police units, as well as for the protection of VIPs
and specially protected sites.

Jane's Defence - 2005

Pervius

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Post n°54

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Pervius Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Effective Range = 0.9 miles

.50 caliber Sniper Rifle = 1.1 miles plus

Maybe why the PAPV articles are from 2005?

2 Watt Laser?

For $300-$400 you can buy a similiar powered laser (which is handheld and the size of a flashlight)....in the US.

you don't need 2 guys to carry it in 2 separate pieces.

1 Watt for Civilians:

www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html

2 Watts of cutting power for Research/manufacturing/teaching....$400.

They'll both burn your eyeballs out. Amazing it's considered by Russia "Non-lethal"....and allowed by Geneva Convention.

okkay then. Laser fire away it is....

Crank out the UV Laser and start breaking down some DNA. Can you imagine old war vets with a 3rd leg growing on their head. "What happened to you?"....."War injury...got hit with a UV laser right between the eyes"....cracked my DNA and started growing this frogs foot." ......."that ain't the worst of it"......."got hit in the rear and and have a horses tail as well".......

UV Lasers to the battle field would be....pretty nutz. ....yet "Non-lethal"....per Russia's interpretation of the Geneva Convention.

GarryB

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Post n°55

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:53 am

Actually that PAPV laser jammer was in the 2000 book of Russian Arms for export, and it is the export model of a system that is rather older.

I suspect with new laser technology it will be much more powerful and much lighter.

Its purpose was to damage optics like telescopic sights and EO systems.

It acts like a laser radar in that it uses a laser beam reflected off a vibrating mirror that generates a laser line instead of a single laser point. This laser line is then scanned around in an arc looking for reflections from the objective lens of optical systems. When reflections are detected a much more powerful beam is directed at the optics to "disable them".

Have read that they have made a few breakthroughs in work on gamma ray lasers, or grazers.

If you look at the spectrum of EM energy you will see gamma rays at the top and they have enormous energy. In a nuclear detonation there are alpha rays, beta rays, and gamma rays. Alpha rays wont penetrate clothing. Beta rays are stopped by skin. Gamma rays will go through lead.
In terms of danger however it is gamma rays that are the most lethal and destroy living tissue at the cellular level.

Anyway... what I am trying to say is that this is not just a laser toy, and the system has no doubt move on in terms of laser technology.

Cyberspec

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Post n°56

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Cyberspec Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:16 am

Radio detonator Jammers

http://www.ooovarus.ru/english/catalogue/radio_detonator_jammers/

GarryB

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Post n°57

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:06 pm

Interesting website Cyberspec...

...did you see this?:

http://www.ooovarus.ru/english/catalogue/video_cameras_detectors/optoelectronic_video_cameras_detector_quot_chistilshik_quot/

Basically a hand held optics detector that can even detect tiny cameras?

That is the electronics in a hand held video camera size package for detecting any EO system.

Boost the laser and optics and you have an upgraded PAPV though still likely much smaller and more efficient than the original PAPV.

Regarding those radio detonators I believe that the Russians had a similar system included in their last set of mine detonation rollers (KMT)for tanks and BMPs had a radio command detonation mine jammer.

Regarding new kit... you don't mean this do you?

http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment.html

Cyberspec

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Post n°58

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Cyberspec Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:17 am

GarryB wrote:Interesting website Cyberspec...

...did you see this?:

http://www.ooovarus.ru/english/catalogue/video_cameras_detectors/optoelectronic_video_cameras_detector_quot_chistilshik_quot/

Interesting. I wasn't aware they produced that sort of equipment....I think most of this stuff is more suited for Police/FSB rather than Army use.

Regarding new kit... you don't mean this do you?

http://www.tsniitochmash.ru/equipment.html

It's not that website, however they (and other associated firms) are promoting the new soldiers kit for the 21st century.

from Maks-2011
http://twower.livejournal.com/622007.html

which led me to this (translated)...

By order № 950 of the Minister of Defence, from July 14, 2010 combined arms assault vest 6B43 adopted by the Defense Ministry.

http://frontkit.spb.ru/newssgl.php?menu1=2&menu2=0&item=35

there's 2 versions of the 6B43 vest

1. http://frontkit.spb.ru/item.php?menu1=1&menu2=0&item=53

2. http://frontkit.spb.ru/item.php?menu1=1&menu2=0&item=40

GarryB

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Post n°59

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:45 am

Interesting. I wasn't aware they produced that sort of equipment....I think most of this stuff is more suited for Police/FSB rather than Army use.

I agree, but if its range can be greatly extended using more powerful lasers and optics it might be a good way of detecting and indeed dealing with smaller and hard to detect UAVs. Some are based on birds to make them hard to detect, but these systems would detect their optical systems.

there's 2 versions of the 6B43 vest

Nice... thanks for posting.

Admin

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Post n°60

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Admin Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:24 am

Ah yes... and they expect us to carry all this crap. Rolling Eyes

GarryB

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Post n°61

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:53 am

I think it looks cool... and if it stops me getting shot... I will carry it. Razz

GarryB

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Post n°62

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:06 am

Sorry for the length of this link, it is a translated page:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://www.arms-expo.ru/055057052124050053053050050.html&usg=ALkJrhhuXfR2KOducF69luDbstuV4_iDrw

It is interesting as it talks about the Russian domestic equivalent of Felin... that is the French FELIN system but using Russian components.

It talks about Felin (French)and its domestic equivalent and also Barmitsa (Russian) but pretty much only mentions the existence of Future Warrior (US).

SWAT Pointman

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Post n°63

Russian soldiers body armor?

SWAT Pointman Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:30 pm

Are Russian soldiers issued body armor? If so, what kind? And type of armor were Soviet Soldiers issued if they had any?

flamming_python

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Post n°64

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

flamming_python Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:28 pm

SWAT Pointman wrote:Are Russian soldiers issued body armor? If so, what kind? And type of armor were Soviet Soldiers issued if they had any?

Yes. Can't really give you any more details; except that there is a shortage of it even now. Soviet soldiers had it issued to.

TR1

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Post n°65

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

TR1 Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:37 pm

Way too many different kinds.

GarryB

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Post n°66

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:36 am

Soviet soldiers were issued body armour in WWII.

In urban combat the first in the door often had steel plate body armour to protect from grenade fragments and SMG bullets...

Body Armour and Protection systems - Page 3 38692710

Body Armour and Protection systems - Page 3 38692710

SWAT Pointman

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Post n°67

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

SWAT Pointman Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:28 pm

GarryB wrote:Soviet soldiers were issued body armour in WWII.

In urban combat the first in the door often had steel plate body armour to protect from grenade fragments and SMG bullets...

I'm pretty sure I read that was experimental and wasn't considered very effective. Even the US didn't have effective body armor until after the Vietnam war.

Zivo

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Post n°68

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

Zivo Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:12 pm

It went into production and was issued mainly to engineers in limited numbers. It could stop a 9mm round at a distance.

Of course a significant percentage of the Wehrmacht used the Kar-98, which went right through it.

GarryB

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Post n°69

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

GarryB Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:44 am

It was quite widely used, the purpose was not to make the soldiers bullet proof, the intention was to reduce casualties to fragments.

Full power rifle cartridges would penetrate from pretty much any range, but as Zivo mentions there were a lot of SMGs and pistols used in urban combat and these vests could stop 9mm most of the time. The real threat was fragments from grenades which were very heavily used by both sides in urban fighting.

The hint is that even in Vietnam they weren't called bullet proof vests... they were called flak jackets... which is exactly what they were.

Note these vests were not worn by entire units... generally it was the first guy in the door that wore such equipment as they were the most likely to get hurt if there was a grenade that still hadn't gone off by the time he entered. Also another trick both sides liked to do was wait till the enemy grenades went off in a room and then they threw their own grenades in, so that the enemy forces would burst into the room to shoot at anything that moved and then boom the enemies grenades went off.

KomissarBojanchev

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Post n°70

Re: Body Armour and Protection systems

KomissarBojanchev Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:04 am

Do regular Russian mechanized troops have any standard issue body armor or helmets capable of stopping any 5,56mm or larger bullet?

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