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    Russian Military Bases Abroad

    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:04 am

    miketheterrible wrote:

    Actually, the base could be a good economic benefit for Venezuela. The Russian base would need fuel, food, other utilities, etc. And then they (Russia) would have to pay rent.

    In this case, can be good financial flow.

    It would be if they had full control of the country. It isn't safe to place our service men and women in harms way considering the lack of law and order.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:15 am

    Agreed. But one of the islands mentioned earlier would be ideal.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:38 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Agreed. But one of the islands mentioned earlier would be ideal.

    Venezuela needs to get it's stuff in order first

    If they survive thins then they should talk
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    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:48 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    Actually, the base could be a good economic benefit for Venezuela. The Russian base would need fuel, food, other utilities, etc. And then they (Russia) would have to pay rent.

    In this case, can be good financial flow.

    It would be if they had full control of the country.  It isn't safe to place our service men and women in harms way considering the lack of law and order.  

    Actually it is an empty island. Once the contract signed, Venezuelans can't do anything. Couple of su-35, s-400, pantsirs and kalibr will make it pretty safe.

    Against saboters, mines will be enough.

    No direct contact with population.

    Military is still with maduro and even if not they are not powerfull enough to attack s-400, su-35 ... and won't attack russian soldiers.

    They would also be closer to Cuba which would open new markets for russians. But also with other south american countries like Mexico or Peru.

    Argentina could als make an alliance with russia and buy some sukhoi and train with them which would also change the situation over Malvinas.

    Also Trump invited Brazil to NATO, tu-160 could keep them calm whike tu-22 could attack brazilian navy in case it really joins.


    Only benefits.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:28 am

    Isos wrote:

    Actually it is an empty island. Once the contract signed, Venezuelans can't do anything. Couple of su-35, s-400, pantsirs and kalibr will make it pretty safe.

    Against saboters, mines will be enough.

    No direct contact with population.

    Military is still with maduro and even if not they are not powerfull enough to attack s-400, su-35 ... and won't attack russian soldiers.

    They would also be closer to Cuba which would open new markets for russians. But also with other south american countries like Mexico or Peru.

    Argentina could als make an alliance with russia and buy some sukhoi and train with them which would also change the situation over Malvinas.

    Also Trump invited Brazil to NATO, tu-160 could keep them calm whike tu-22 could attack brazilian navy in case it really joins.


    Only benefits.

    Such a base costs billions to build and maintain.  What is the strategic interest that is worth such a cost?  I think spending that money in Vietnam would be of more worth. The actions in Syria have been a huge financial drain on our armed forces.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:36 am

    Well instead of making it a military base only, how about making it a trade centre for Russia to central and south america to promote trade and cooperation.

    If it is successful, then build another one in Vietnam and one in Africa...
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:45 am

    GarryB wrote:Well instead of making it a military base only, how about making it a trade centre for Russia to central and south america to promote trade and cooperation.

    If it is successful, then build another one in Vietnam and one in Africa...

    So instead of spending on military component they get to spend on both military and civilian?

    And for what? Just because Brazil wants into NATO?

    Big deal, it's on the other end of the planet. What will they do? Park IRBMs in Brazil? Oh the horror...
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    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:42 pm

    Quite off-topic, but... Imagine a few russian bases in middle-/south-america (Cuba, Venezuela), africa (Eritrea, Angola), south-east asia (Vietnam, Myanmar), equipped with planes and air defence systems and coastal defence systems and so on. Russia would get some control of important choke points, also the west would go nuts and had to "confront" Russia there instead the concentration of forces along russian borders.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:48 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:

    It would be if they had full control of the country.  It isn't safe to place our service men and women in harms way considering the lack of law and order.  

    This never happens until it is gonna be part of Russia, im afraid. But friendly govt is another issue right? Nicaragua, Cuba. Venzuela is very temptng for USA siumplt crude reserves are forcing US to "introduce democracy by force'n'genocide"
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:51 pm

    Hole wrote:Quite off-topic, but... Imagine a few russian bases in middle-/south-america (Cuba, Venezuela), africa (Eritrea, Angola), south-east asia (Vietnam, Myanmar), equipped with planes and air defence systems and coastal defence systems and so on. Russia would get some control of important choke points, also the west would go nuts and had to "confront" Russia there instead the concentration of forces along russian borders.

    Vietnam unlikely any time soon. They are too afraid of US economic sanctions. Vanuatu sooner Smile As for Africa - Libya, Sudan are likely possibility too, Iran ?
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    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:19 pm

    Libya is to chaotic.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:42 pm

    Hole wrote:Quite off-topic, but... Imagine a few russian bases in middle-/south-america (Cuba, Venezuela), africa (Eritrea, Angola), south-east asia (Vietnam, Myanmar), equipped with planes and air defence systems and coastal defence systems and so on. Russia would get some control of important choke points, also the west would go nuts and had to "confront" Russia there instead the concentration of forces along russian borders.

    Well they let that to China mainly. USA already can't counter in the same time Russia and China at their borders (i.e east europe and south China sea). Now they have chinese bases in Africa, central asia ... they will need to reduce effort in europe to counter them. Even europeans know US can't counter both russia and china in same time and are thinking about a life without US protection.

    Erdogan is also a big issue in the middle east.

    Russia just need to wait and watch.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    And for what? Just because Brazil wants into NATO?

    Big deal, it's on the other end of the planet. What will they do? Park IRBMs in Brazil? Oh the horror...

    oh finally I understand why GB wants to see many huuge CVNs in RuN. To fight Brazil in NATO pwnd pwnd pwnd
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    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:50 pm

    Such a base costs billions to build and maintain.  What is the strategic interest that is worth such a cost?  I think spending that money in Vietnam would be of more worth. The actions in Syria have been a huge financial drain on our armed forces.

    Vietnam will always be frendly to Russia. You can use their own bases like france does in Jordania.

    There are already a port and a runway. Only need buildings. Depend what you want to send there, it can be very cheap. A replenishement base for SSN and cruiser, an airbase for couple of tu-160 and 3 su-35, 4 su-34 and 12 su-24 for antishiping would be quite cheap. Hmemim is also cheap compare to what US and allies pay for their bases around the world.

    Local would also invest in the island. Venezuelan workers are quite cheap too just as their products.

    Strategically UK will need to move lot of forces around Malvinas in fear of russian invasion, US will need to keep forces in the south to watch the tupolevs and military relations translate into economic relations.

    Russian navy would also benefits from it as they will need to buy more destroyers/frigates to watch it and more cargo to refuel the base which can also be half loaded with civilian stuff to export in south asia. Control also hot water black sea/tartous/maybe libya/venezuela something russians always wanted.

    On the other hand asia is fully militarized. There is no space for russia there and it can be involved in a conflict where you have no interests.


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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:17 am

    So instead of spending on military component they get to spend on both military and civilian?

    And for what? Just because Brazil wants into NATO?

    Venezuela is getting sanctioned... a lot of products they bought from the US, like the naptha they need to drill their thick local oil is being cut off with sanctions and they are suffering.

    Setting up a Russian trade organisation within a military area means Russian businesses can visit and talk and find solutions to Venezuelas problems... selling them the things they previously got from the US, helping them develop their food industry... lets face it... over the last few years Russia has had experience of going from a food importer to a food exporter... still not perfect, but her experience in building up domestic food production capacity would be valuable to venezuela and probably a few other countries in the region.

    A military base on its own is a vulnerable little out post that local Venezuelans might respect or come to despise because it is not useful.

    Mixing in a trade mission, and using it for PR in the area will benefit Venezuela and Russia... they could go to the poorer areas and promote Russian products like solar panels, while offering healthcare support via military medical people like they do in warzones... ie afghanistan in the 1980s.

    I suspect Russian medical products are much cheaper than American ones or western ones, so an added market for Russian products is a good thing isn't it?

    They could let the Chinese join them... Chinese TVs and Russian medicine... growth and more income for the domestic Russian pharmaceutical industry is a good thing isn't it? Investment to develop drugs to cure problems instead of the capitalist money making life long treatment of conditions so you get more money...

    Big deal, it's on the other end of the planet. What will they do? Park IRBMs in Brazil? Oh the horror...

    Are you kidding... the whole point in trying to overthrow Chavez and now Maduro is because of their good relations with Russia and China... Trump and Obama could care less about the plight of the Venezuelan people...

    Quite off-topic, but... Imagine a few russian bases in middle-/south-america (Cuba, Venezuela), africa (Eritrea, Angola), south-east asia (Vietnam, Myanmar), equipped with planes and air defence systems and coastal defence systems and so on. Russia would get some control of important choke points, also the west would go nuts and had to "confront" Russia there instead the concentration of forces along russian borders.

    Well as their navy expands and their fleet of long range bombers expands having safe secure places to visit makes sense, and if you can make such bases useful for trade and general relations then they will be a benefit rather than a financial drag like all of Americas foreign bases.

    Libya is to chaotic.

    Well it is risky, but if they could bring real peace by the mix of force but also talking to all sides they might have a positive influence and snatch peace from the jaws of chaos... and it is not even about oil contracts, but maybe Russia needs to set up some construction companies that can handle foreign jobs that can benefit Russia with rebuilding programmes... such companies can also be used in non war situations to help with major infrastructure projects in poor countries... look at all the roads the Chinese are building throughout africa and the positive effect that is having...

    It would create a nice counter for the destroyer of countries like the US, where Russia builds and creates, and promotes peace for the benefit of Russia financially, but also for the country in question that benefits from peace and stability... you know... the stuff the west promises until it gets control of the oil and then it doesn't give a crap.

    What I am saying is that the narrative... the Kool Aide high... is something Russia could actually try to deliver for poor countries that need help but realise it is not coming from the west...

    oh finally I understand why GB wants to see many huuge CVNs in RuN. To fight Brazil in NATO

    Brazil joining NATO is rather unlikely to happen... but if it did you can bet Japan and Australia and Israel would be queueing up to be next.

    The RuN doesn't need to go looking for a fight with NATO... NATO is already very good at moving its forces closer to Russia already.

    Having established bases around the world that promote trade and good relations with Russia means those CVNs will have places to visit while they are operating...

    I am sure the opportunity to visit Cuba and Venezuela would be more appealing to Navy recruits than... sail the northern route till your eyes freeze....

    Not talking about imperial bases to keep the government in power or to interfere in elections etc... an airfield and some buildings but nothing that cannot be picked up and dropped on a ship in a day... and sailed back to Russia.

    Vietnam will always be frendly to Russia. You can use their own bases like france does in Jordania.

    Vietnam would probably want balance, so if Russia got a base there they would likely offer the US a base there too...

    Strategically UK will need to move lot of forces around Malvinas in fear of russian invasion, US will need to keep forces in the south to watch the tupolevs and military relations translate into economic relations.

    They might feel a bit of the discomfort they have been inflicting on Russia the last three decades as NATO gets closer to Russia... if Russia is not allowed a sphere of influence... they need to expand their relations beyond their borders...

    On the other hand asia is fully militarized. There is no space for russia there and it can be involved in a conflict where you have no interests.

    There is plenty of trade potential most places... you just need to send businessmen there to find out what they want or need...

    There are lots of areas where Russian expertise could be useful to Venezuela and no doubt some areas where Venezuela could help Russia... why not shift their sea based space launch operation south to a much more Russia friendly country than California... pretty sure they would love to enter the space age...
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:01 am

    Supposedly La Orchida island in Venezuela that is going to host Tu-160s has too short runway. In a high humidity conditions, fully loaded bomber won't be able to take off from 3500 m runway. Just propaganda or reasonable fear?

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    Post  Isos on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:50 am

    Not short for mig-31k.
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    Post  Hole on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:55 am

    With full afterburner a fully loaded Tu-160 can become airborne in less then 3.500m. But from that island it doesn´t need to be fully loaded to reach the launch point of its cruise missiles. And the island looks large enough to build a 5.000m runway.
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:58 pm

    With full afterburner a fully loaded Tu-160 can become airborne in less then 3.500m. But from that island it doesn´t need to be fully loaded to reach the launch point of its cruise missiles. And the island looks large enough to build a 5.000m runway.

    Yes, generally, I meant when the humidity is high and the air density decreases and the engines are less efficient.

    Ok. Kh-101 has range.
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    Post  Hole on Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:40 pm

    Maybe Russia can buy the island. Then they could do what they want. Very Happy
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:24 pm

    Maybe Russia can buy the island. Then they could do what they want. Very Happy

    They seem to like the location. The US used to worry mostly about ICBM and SLBM from east and west, perhaps also ICBM from north. Now their oil-rich southern underbelly is threatened too.
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    Post  LMFS on Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:58 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:They seem to like the location. The US used to worry mostly about ICBM and SLBM from east and west, perhaps also ICBM from north. Now their oil-rich southern underbelly is threatened too.
    To get all the South of US ready against LO CMs will be expensive for US, much more than for Russia would be to have a small base in Venezuela. Add some Kalibr-M there for bigger effect too. That is to be added to ABM means needed against Sarmat which can fly from South too.
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    Post  Hole on Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:45 pm

    The island is larger then Diego Garcia. You could build two or three air bases there. Plus a nice port. Long-range radar. Deploy ballistic and cruise missiles...
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    Post  verkhoturye51 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:36 am

    To get all the South of US ready against LO CMs will be expensive for US, much more than for Russia would be to have a small base in Venezuela. Add some Kalibr-M there for bigger effect too. That is to be added to ABM means needed against Sarmat which can fly from South too.

    The only serious defence against hypersonics they have is AEGIS, but there are no such platforms in the Gulf of Texas.

    The island is larger then Diego Garcia. You could build two or three air bases there. Plus a nice port. Long-range radar. Deploy ballistic and cruise missiles...

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    Post  LMFS on Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:07 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:The only serious defence against hypersonics they have is AEGIS, but there are no such platforms in the Gulf of Texas.
    What missile do you mean exactly? SM-3 is useless against Zircon or Kinzhal, SM-6 is not capable against fast aeroballistic or aerodynamic targets

    Maximum speed of the attacked aerodynamic target is estimated at 800 meters per second. The hit probability by one missile at an aerodynamic target is 0.95.
    https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/6088-new-kh-32-antiship-missile-becomes-operational-in-russia-part-1.html

    The missile is planed to receive a bigger engine and in all probability will be developed to counter faster missiles, but as of now it is not capable enough from what I know...

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