Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Share
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:13 am

    http://www.star.ru/data/images/2014_01/dizelpower.JPG

    Cool photo- Vladikavkaz submarine under repair @ Zvezdochka, with Yekaterinburg in the background being worked on.

    http://www.star.ru/data/images/2014_01/ekaterinburg.JPG
    http://www.star.ru/data/images/2014_01/cex_10.JPG
    avatar
    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 10005
    Points : 10493
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:55 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The whole pacific surface fleet will be of no big value, as its pretty much already is obselete.

    Hmmm.. every vessel from corvette to cruiser carrying an AEGIS like system and a wide range of standardised weapons and sensors and propulsion.  The Russian Navy is going to get more standardised and by 2020 will have hypersonic anti ship missiles... obsolete in what way?

    udaloys have no important firepower, they are just large ASW ships, Sovremennys are getting retired, so...
    avatar
    zg18
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 877
    Points : 953
    Join date : 2013-09-26
    Location : Zagreb , Croatia

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  zg18 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:07 pm

    Auxiliary Ship "PM-138" & Vishnya class Intelligence Ship "Priazovye" docked in Tartous , Syria




    Baltic fleet LST "Shabalin" and "Kaliningrad" visit Beirut , Lebanon



    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5998
    Points : 6400
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Austin on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:07 am

    seems americans are unhappy

    Russia’s Navy Rising

    The Russian Navy 'Rebalances' to the Mediterranean
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16013
    Points : 16670
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:19 am

    there is overwhelming evidence that Russia is once again embarking on an aggressive naval shipbuilding program.

    They haven't even produced a brand new vessel the size of a Frigate... but their program is aggressive... how many carrier groups does the US have vs Russia? A carrier group screams aggression and clearly shows which "side" is the aggressor.

    I didn't bother reading any further in either article... I read those articles during the cold war... it seems they are still the only articles written in the west. Sad


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Hannibal Barca
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1236
    Points : 1258
    Join date : 2013-12-13

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:55 am

    Austin wrote:seems americans are unhappy

    Russia’s Navy Rising

    The Russian Navy 'Rebalances' to the Mediterranean

    Of course they should be unhappy.
    Let's make it clear.
    It's about whether West or East dominate the world.
    Ain't any kids game here.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5998
    Points : 6400
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Austin on Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:41 pm

    Two months underwater: The life of a Russian submariner

    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1122
    Points : 1279
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:00 pm

    So are there already any plans what will happen in the next 10 years to the 1155s? Will they be obsolete by then? If yes are they to be modernized or all of them to be decommissioned? Would it be possible on the original 1155 s to remove one of the 100mm guns and replace it a with a redut or UKSK pod? Will they be modernized by fitting them with 9m54 or onyx silos? Do they have the ability to get A-192 cannons?
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:50 pm

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=369043&download=2&type=.jpg

    Alrosa looking good, back home in the BSF.

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=369053&download=2&type=.jpg
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5673
    Points : 6324
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:44 am

    Lots of work in front of them ...

    Ship Repair Center "asterisk" to build new ships for the Navy

    Defense shipyard "Ship Repair Center" asterisk "planned in 2014 to substantially increase production within the state defense order.

    Subs:

    project 971 "Leopard"

    project 971 "Volk"

    project 971 "Bratsk"

    project 971 "Samara"

    project 945 "Carp"

    project 945 "Kostroma"

    Delta-4 "Ekaterinburg"
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:52 am

    Indeed, and that does not even include continuing 949A modernization, nor diesel submarine work that is currently ongoing.
    After Ekaterinburg they will repair the Tula.

    And of course they are working on the 1164 cruisers, as well as performing routine repairs on ships like 1155.

    "«Звездочка» также строит для ВМФ серию судов специального назначения проекта 20180. В этом году северодвинским корабелам предстоит сдать второе судно серии - морской транспорт вооружения «Академик Ковалёв». Сейчас на одной нитке стапеля строятся сразу два судна, и в 2014 г. будет заложен четвертый корабль.
    Подробнее: http://vpk-news.ru/news/18725"

    They are also building the 20180 vessels, 1 of which has been completed, two are building, and this year one more will be laid down.

    No exaggeration to say they are one Russia's most critical naval yards.
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:30 am

    http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=368555&download=2&type=.jpg

    Nice photo-dry docks in Sevastopol.

    Georgia's Nightmare, the Mirage is in the small dock on the left, and the ancient Kommuna can be seen in the foreground dock.
    avatar
    runaway
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 350
    Points : 371
    Join date : 2010-11-12
    Location : Sweden

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  runaway on Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:28 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:So are there already any plans what will happen in the next 10 years to the 1155s? Will they be  obsolete by then? If yes are they to be modernized or all of them to be decommissioned? Would it be possible on the original 1155 s to remove one of the 100mm guns and replace it a with a redut or UKSK pod? Will they be modernized by fitting them with 9m54 or onyx silos? Do they have the ability to get A-192 cannons?

    In 2006 the Northern Fleet's Project 1155 Udaloy I-class destroyer Admiral Kharlamov was reported to have been laid-up for a planned overhaul and upgrade programme. In 2008 Admiral Chabanenko became the first Russian warship to transit the Panama Canal since World War II[2]
    In April 2010 Severnaya Verf shipyard announced that the destroyer Vice-Admiral Kulakov, which had been undergoing an overhaul since 1990, will rejoin Russia's Northern Fleet soon

    In 2012 the destroyer was escorting commercial convoys as a part of the anti-piracy mission in the Gulf of Aden.[4] In July 2012, Vice-Admiral Kulakov was leading a flotilla of the Northern Fleet to the Eastern Mediterranean to conduct naval drills, close to the Syrian coast.[5] In August 2012 she paid a 5-day visit to Portsmouth Naval Base, England. In September 2012 the Vice-Admiral Kulakov also visited Cobh, Ireland

    We have yet to see a Udaloy with UKSK, and as new Gorshkov frigates and Grigorovich is hitting the water in increasing numbers, the 1155´s will probable be decommisioned.

    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:08 pm

    No major upgrades planned, not yet. The 1155s are the workhorses of the Russian Navy, they can't really afford to compromise the fleet by laying them up for expensive and lengthy modernization.

    By around 2018-2020 the ships will be ripe for retirement, and that is around the time new destroyers will enter service.
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1122
    Points : 1279
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:59 pm

    What if there are massive delayswith the new destroyers just like what happened to the yasen, Ivan gren, lada, etc.? Will upgrading them be a plan B?
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:15 pm

    We are getting into too many ifs. Destroyer will take a while to get ready, no doubt about that.

    However 22350 pretty much eclipses the old destroyers in capability, despite displacement, so they will be fine in the meantime.

    Like I said, no plans to upgrade 1155 right now whatsoever.

    Nobody wants Ivan Gren, so I don't think the destroyers will have delays like that. All depends on their weapon systems- if it is scaled up 22350 then I don't think it will be too difficult. If the ship is twice the size and has completely different systems, well, then post 2020 time frame is probably what we are looking at.
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5734
    Points : 5774
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:32 am

    http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/251692.html

    Nice photos of the "Zvezdochka" rescue ship. Made of course @ Zvezdochka.
    avatar
    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7264
    Points : 7564
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:47 am

    TR1 wrote:We are getting into too many ifs. Destroyer will take a while to get ready, no doubt about that.

    However 22350 pretty much eclipses the old destroyers in capability, despite displacement, so they will be fine in the meantime.

    Like I said, no plans to upgrade 1155 right now whatsoever.

    Nobody wants Ivan Gren, so I don't think the destroyers will have delays like that. All depends on their weapon systems- if it is scaled up 22350 then I don't think it will be too difficult. If the ship is twice the size and has completely different systems, well, then post 2020 time frame is probably what we are looking at.

    Gorshkov is probably Russia's most important Naval project next to Borei and Yasen as Gorshkov is what is needed for the Blue Navy Fleet.  So many ships are aged and will need to retire, and Gorshkov is pretty much that ship that acts as a real replacement.

    Yasen's on the other hand need to also be put out.  But the cost is out of this world.

    navyfield wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:What if there are massive delayswith the new destroyers just like what happened to the yasen, Ivan gren, lada, etc.? Will upgrading them be a plan B?
    russian navy status in 1 word- disaster.

    And yet, they have one the largest navy next to USA, with far more active SSBN's than others next to USA. Only issue is the age of the fleet, so the need for Gorshkov and Yasen's are the primary target so far. Well, of course the add in of the auxillery ships and possibly a carrier or LPD.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16013
    Points : 16670
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:07 am

    russian navy status in 1 word- disaster.

    Their corvettes are getting single UKSK launchers and therefore will have more long range nuclear firepower than any NATO vessel except the US, UK and France.

    Their SSBN fleet alone means the disaster will afflict any nation that opposes the Russian Navy.

    They certainly have a lot of problems and are at an early stage of rebuilding, but unlike most western navies they are fully funded and can look forward to rather more defence spending than other NATO countries combines minus the US of course.

    the reforms and changes mean the future Russian navy will be much leaner and much more powerful.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5673
    Points : 6324
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:22 pm

    Right from the Russian Mordor  Very Happy 

    In pictures. SSBN "Ekaterinburg" and SSK "Vladikavkaz" on SRH "Star"
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1122
    Points : 1279
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:42 am

    TR1 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:What country in the caspian would dare to confront russia's interests there? The almighty azeri or turkmen navies? LOL Even Iran isn't powerful there. IMO the caspian doesn't need warships at all . Land based Onyx and calibr, bereg artillery as well as the VVS would completely suffice in wiping out anything attacking  russia there. Something as powerful as the buyan is completely unnecessary. The only boats russia would need there are some police or border guard patrol boats there. No more.

    Well, the Russian navy disagrees with you. What can I say?

    Get rid of any units in the area and suddenly you do have a potential for problems. Like I said, Kalibr is usefull for covering entire region, from relative safety of Caspian.

    And once again, they can easily and quickly be transferred to the BSF.
    May I ask how exactly they can be transferred "quickly and easily"? Is there a new canal connecting the Black and Caspian sea?
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1949
    Points : 2072
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:06 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:What country in the caspian would dare to confront russia's interests there? The almighty azeri or turkmen navies? LOL Even Iran isn't powerful there. IMO the caspian doesn't need warships at all . Land based Onyx and calibr, bereg artillery as well as the VVS would completely suffice in wiping out anything attacking  russia there. Something as powerful as the buyan is completely unnecessary. The only boats russia would need there are some police or border guard patrol boats there. No more.

    Well, the Russian navy disagrees with you. What can I say?

    Get rid of any units in the area and suddenly you do have a potential for problems. Like I said, Kalibr is usefull for covering entire region, from relative safety of Caspian.

    And once again, they can easily and quickly be transferred to the BSF.
    May I ask how exactly they can be transferred "quickly and easily"? Is there a new canal connecting the Black and Caspian sea?

    There has been one for a long time. Apparently, a ship of up to 6000 tonne displacement can go from the Caspian sea to the Black sea via the Volga river to the Volga-Don canal, then via the Volga-Don canal to the Don river, and finally via the Don river to the Black sea.
    avatar
    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3198
    Points : 3314
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian Navy: Status & News

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:00 am

    Makes the Caspian a nice little basin for keeping some extra little toys 'in storage'  Twisted Evil
    And in the meantime keeping the peace there too.

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3345
    Points : 3465
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:26 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Gorshkov is probably Russia's most important Naval project next to Borei and Yasen as Gorshkov is what is needed for the Blue Navy Fleet.  So many ships are aged and will need to retire, and Gorshkov is pretty much that ship that acts as a real replacement.

    I think Russia strategy is a wrong one.. Russia military Industry is very slow and inefficient and will never catch US NAvy size in a vis vs vis..  CHina already surpassed Russia navy in destroyers and Frigates. As 2012 ,China have ~25 destroyers ,47 frigates.. most of them brand new.. . Russia have 18 old destroyers(including cruisers) and 5 old frigates. with 63 submarines for china and 59 for Russia.    

    http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=China

    For sure Russia have better weapons...the point however is that Russia small navy can be reduced to half in just any small conflict in no time by an airforce. Money that they could have better spend in an Powerful tactical Airforce.

    Warships are nice shor show of power.. but they are very vulnerable to Air force today. Whats good about a Gorshkov Frigate if can be overwhelmed by 10 cheap patrol boats firing anti-ship missiles at the same time or simply a fishing boat or a mine. Even Syria customized Migs-23 to launch Yakhonts supersonic will be a very dangerous weapon to any modern warship. History is full of examples of cheap planes that fly under the radar with an anti-ship missile to sink a powerful warship. 1 hit ,1 kill. like Falklands wars. The Gorshkov or any other warship from any nation can be overwhelmed and will not survive a salvo attack of just 5-10 planes flying under the radar in a massive attack of a couple of dozens of anti-ship missiles at same time.. Also very vulnerable to mines or simply scuba divers in Underwater bikes ,carrying a bomb.

    It will be far Better for Russia to focus instead its Resources and money on Modernizing its Airforce and increasing its size dramatically. . So increasing its Industrial Capacity and getting a dozen of stealth Bomber like PAK-DA ,or better design a Hypersonic very high altitude Bomber that could fly 32km altitude or more and change course at will , will make very challenging to intercept them by any system of defense in the world .

    I don't see the point of for example of having a ballistic Submarine if you can launch the same missile from Russia land on a mobile transport. So Russia will increase much more its deterrence by Building a very modern ,massive stealth strategic Airforce that could fly to any place in the world very fast and launch hypersonic Missiles Nuclear and conventional to any place.  

    Instead of making very vulnerable warships ,that are very slow ,takes days if not weeks to deploy them for the desired place of conflict.. Much better to replace the navy with a power modern Air force that could reach any place in a couple of hours.

    So instead of building warships, that cost $US 1 billion or 2 each..better create upgraded stealth versions of their Tu-160s or Tu-22s in Big numbers that could launch conventional or nuclear attacks in any part of the world.

    Also creating military Airbases in zones of potential future conflict that they have interest will significantly decrease the need for very long range bombers or even the need for aircraft carriers.Which is another mistake. Having Military Airports in Nations like Egypt ,Syria , IRAN persian Gulf (close to Saudi Arabia) ,Venezuela , Vietnam.. Will Dramatically Increase Russia projection capabilities and be in any part of the world withing 2 hours. ,without the need build a very expensive very vulnerable navy ,with a cheap plane like a Tu-22 armed with hypersonic nuclear or conventional missiles.

    So for example Russia cancel any new submarine.or Big warship  and focus all its resources in building a massive Airforce of tactical stealth bombers by building a stealth version of Tu-22 and TU-160 and building a hypersonic Pak-DA. and deploy them in their new military bases .for example 30x TU-22/ 10 x Tu-160  with a couple of Pak-Da in venezuela., 50x Tu-22 in Syria , 50x Tu-22 + few pak-Da  IRAN , 20x TU-22 Vietnam and the rest of the planes in Russia . such kind of force all armed with Nuclear and/or tactical missiles will become a powerful deterrent than any submarine fleet .Because of the speed at what they can launch an attack. and overwhelm any Aircraft carrier group in any part of the world.

    calripson
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 138
    Points : 163
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    Not That Simple

    Post  calripson on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:26 pm

    I agree from a strategy perspective and cost/benefit analysis surface warships are an inefficient use of resources. (Particularly WWII era carrier task groups of the USA). However, it is not that simple.

    First, there is a continuum of conflicts ranging from a peacetime psychological show of force to all out nuclear warfare. Surface ships have significant utility in much of the range of these conflicts short of all out war.

    Secondly, there is an economic and technological aspect to ship building. Russia wants to not only build ships for its navy, it wants to export also. It wants to develop its technological base not only for military shipbuilding, but also for commercial shipbuilding.

    Finally, thousands of workers rely on shipbuilding for their livelihood and many of the centers of shipbuilding have no other source or likely source of economic growth. They are geographically reliant on the navy/shipbuilding.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu May 25, 2017 1:23 am