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    Russian Navy: Status & News #2

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    TR1
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:30 pm

    Viktor wrote:Its just great how Russians managed to squeeze in Kalibr/Klub missiles in it making it a highly potent and dangerous weapon.

    Russian Missile Corvettes Ready to Enter Service in Caspian

    It takes basically the entire superstructure height to get those long missiles in there. The whole ship is desighned around them IIRC, though basis was obviously 21630.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:47 am

    Yay, confirmation that 11356 will indeed have A-190-01.

    http://burevestnik.com/products/nov34.html

    "В соответствии с государственным оборонным заказом ЦНИИ «Буревестник» в кооперации с партнерами по отрасли в течение 2013 года изготовил и поставил военным кораблестроителям уже шесть корабельных пушек А190-01. Из них три — на Зеленодольский завод им. М. Горького, две — на прибалтийский завод «Янтарь» и одну — на завод «Северная верфь»."

    In 2013 they delivered 6 A-190-1 complexes: 3 to Zelenodolsk (21631), 2 to Yantar (11356 Smile ) and 1 to Severnaay (Boiki).

    Nice pics of sisters:





    Weird paintjob, guessing it is dark due to proximity to the Gibka launcher in front of the bridge.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:24 am

    I think Russia strategy is a wrong one.. Russia military Industry is very slow and inefficient and will never catch US NAvy size in a vis vs vis..

    Having a US sized Navy would be pointless for Russia... they could not afford a navy that size and would have no use for such a navy.... in every regard except SSBN where they will have a navy comparable to the US navy SSBNs.

    CHina already surpassed Russia navy in destroyers and Frigates.

    Many Asian countries have small fishing boats in numbers that far outnumber any European western country... they are dreadfully inefficient at catching fish and delivering them to market.

    For sure Russia have better weapons...the point however is that Russia small navy can be reduced to half in just any small conflict in no time by an airforce. Money that they could have better spend in an Powerful tactical Airforce.

    A powerful airforce did not defeat Vietnam, nor did it defeat Somali rebels... and it has not defeated any country as far as I know on its own.

    Russia has maritime territory it has to defend and patrol and an air force is not efficient at such things.

    It is much cheaper and easier to send a small group of ships to sail anywhere in the world than it is to send aircraft anywhere on the planet.

    Warships are nice shor show of power.. but they are very vulnerable to Air force today. Whats good about a Gorshkov Frigate if can be overwhelmed by 10 cheap patrol boats firing anti-ship missiles at the same time or simply a fishing boat or a mine.

    Those ten cheap patrol boats are rather more vulnerable to that Frigate than vice versa. Air threats are taken seriously by the Russian Navy... the air defence missiles carried by the Gorshkov will not be S-300 based... they will be S-400 based... with a 32 tube launcher that Gorshkov Frigate... on its own has the equivalent of 128 S-400 60km and 150km range high performance SAMs... personally I think it is the Air Force that is in trouble... most enemy air forces are not that sophisticated anyway... 2-3 Gorshkovs sailing down to the Falklands facing Argentinas 200 A-4 Skyhawks and Mirage F-5s would clean the skies fairly rapidly.

    Even Syria customized Migs-23 to launch Yakhonts supersonic will be a very dangerous weapon to any modern warship.

    A Mig-23 would have no where to hang a Yakhont missile.

    History is full of examples of cheap planes that fly under the radar with an anti-ship missile to sink a powerful warship. 1 hit ,1 kill. like Falklands wars.

    No it isn't. Falklands is about the only example and shows why a decent air craft carrier with decent fixed wing fighter aircraft and AEW aircraft are necessary.

    Flying low and fast is no longer sufficient, with modern ships having air defences most cities of the 1980s would be envious of.

    The Gorshkov or any other warship from any nation can be overwhelmed and will not survive a salvo attack of just 5-10 planes flying under the radar in a massive attack of a couple of dozens of anti-ship missiles at same time..

    The Gorshkov with its Poliment radar and Redut missile battery should be able to defeat up to 12 targets at one time on its own with missiles alone. Add more ships and you add more ready to launch missiles and more sensors to detect targets earlier.

    If you want to lose half your air force trying to take out a Frigate then you are welcome to try but I rather think you are under estimating the ships and over estimating the planes in this case.

    Also very vulnerable to mines or simply scuba divers in Underwater bikes ,carrying a bomb.

    In comparison aircraft are incredibly vulnerable to direct attack on airfields as shown in Sri Lanka.

    It will be far Better for Russia to focus instead its Resources and money on Modernizing its Airforce and increasing its size dramatically. .

    Size in self defeating, but modernising their Air Force is a very good idea and exactly what they are doing.

    So increasing its Industrial Capacity and getting a dozen of stealth Bomber like PAK-DA ,or better design a Hypersonic very high altitude Bomber that could fly 32km altitude or more and change course at will , will make very challenging to intercept them by any system of defense in the world .

    The plan is not to copy the US and build 20 flying wings. They will want at least 100-150 PAK DAs eventually to replace their Tu-95s, Tu-160s, and Tu-22M3s. They will not build 150 PAK DAs in the next ten years... they will build them over the next 40 years and use them to replace the older aircraft as they retire.

    I don't see the point of for example of having a ballistic Submarine if you can launch the same missile from Russia land on a mobile transport.

    Modern satellites can keep track of truck sized objects 24/7.

    SSBNs on the other hand can sail under the arctic ice sheet while there is one and no satellite can track it.

    Instead of making very vulnerable warships ,that are very slow ,takes days if not weeks to deploy them for the desired place of conflict..

    Sometimes it benefits the world when politicians are forced to wait a few days before they can launch missile strikes on their enemies...

    Much better to replace the navy with a power modern Air force that could reach any place in a couple of hours.

    The primary job of the Russian navy is coastal defence and anti poaching anti smuggling anti drug running operations... many of which include the use of air power but few of which could be handled by air power alone.

    Also creating military Airbases in zones of potential future conflict that they have interest will significantly decrease the need for very long range bombers or even the need for aircraft carriers.Which is another mistake. Having Military Airports in Nations like Egypt ,Syria , IRAN persian Gulf (close to Saudi Arabia) ,Venezuela , Vietnam.. Will Dramatically Increase Russia projection capabilities and be in any part of the world withing 2 hours. ,without the need build a very expensive very vulnerable navy ,with a cheap plane like a Tu-22 armed with hypersonic nuclear or conventional missiles.

    A single aircraft carrier offers the same flexibility as a base in all those places, yet there is no chance of an election taking place where Russian aircraft are asked to leave the carrier.

    Having Russian bases in all those regions would be good and help improve relations with those countries... but they aren't going to happen overnight.

    So for example Russia cancel any new submarine.or Big warship and focus all its resources in building a massive Airforce of tactical stealth bombers by building a stealth version of Tu-22 and TU-160 and building a hypersonic Pak-DA.

    A hypersonic PAK DA would likely cost more than a decent navy... there is a reason the US retired the SR-71 with its exotic design and it is only a Mach 3.5 aircraft... a Mach 5 aircraft is more than just a new engine.



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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:15 am

    Not sure what to make out of it but an Interesting Interview indeed .....Vicktor , TR1

    What should be our fleet
    Interview with chairman of the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation Defence Admiral Vladimir Komoyedov in the past - the commander of the Black Sea Fleet.

    http://vpk-news.ru/articles/18748

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:26 am

    Some fairy tale numbers, I guess a man can dream.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:36 pm

     thumbsup 


    Russian naval support fleet to be replenished with 16 new ships in 2014

    “The Russian Navy will be replenished with new sea-going and harbor tugboats, port-servicing vessels, logistic support ships, armament support ships, communication motorboats and target ships,” the press service reported.
    The ministry reported that the country’s Navy plans to purchase 96 ships by 2020 under the development concept of naval support fleet.

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    Russian Navy: Status & News

    Post  Austin on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:18 pm

    Isnt 96 ships low number if you include sea-going and harbor tugboats, port-servicing vessels, logistic support ships, armament support ships, communication motorboats and target ships ?

    -------

    http://www.russiadefence.net/viewtopic.forum?t=2973

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    Russian Navy: Status & News

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:33 pm

    Austin wrote:Isnt 96 ships low number if you include sea-going and harbor tugboats, port-servicing vessels, logistic support ships, armament support ships, communication motorboats and target ships ?

    No, it's a lot. It is 16 ships every year, which given that an average ship has 30 years live span at least, makes for some 500 ships.
    This is almost Soviet Union levels in anything but average tonnage. Is not a world beating performance but is a great restoration of naval production.
    I guess it is more than what USA produces in the same time. Rome wasn't build in a day as they say.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:00 am

    Good photo, Orel and Smolensk @ Zvezdochka.

    http://www.star.ru/data/images/2014_01/orel_and_smolensk.jpg


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Austin on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:10 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    Austin wrote:Isnt 96 ships low number if you include sea-going and harbor tugboats, port-servicing vessels, logistic support ships, armament support ships, communication motorboats and target ships ?

    No, it's a lot. It is 16 ships every year, which given that an average ship has 30 years live span at least, makes for some 500 ships.
    This is almost Soviet Union levels in anything but average tonnage. Is not a world beating performance but is a great restoration of naval production.
    I guess it is more than what USA produces in the same time. Rome wasn't build in a day as they say.

    But mind you these are 16 ships of all types and not 16 capital ships .....so even a Tug is considered as new ship ..... what is more interesting would be how much of 96 will be capital ships which is Destroyers , Frigates , Corvettes

    Support vessel is important if its big capital ships like LPD Mistral

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:17 am

    Austin wrote:But mind you these are 16 ships of all types and not 16 capital ships .....so even a Tug is considered as new ship  ..... what is more interesting would be how much of 96 will be capital ships which is Destroyers , Frigates , Corvettes

    Support vessel is important if its big capital ships like LPD Mistral  

    Thos 96 ships you are talking about from the link are only SUPPORT ships.

    The Defense Ministry reported that the country’s Navy plans to purchase 96 ships by 2020 under the development concept of naval support fleet

    Dont mix that with intention of the Russian Navy to acquire 90-100 fighting ships by 2020.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:32 am

    Viktor wrote:
    Austin wrote:But mind you these are 16 ships of all types and not 16 capital ships .....so even a Tug is considered as new ship  ..... what is more interesting would be how much of 96 will be capital ships which is Destroyers , Frigates , Corvettes

    Support vessel is important if its big capital ships like LPD Mistral  

    Thos 96 ships you are talking about from the link are only SUPPORT ships.

    The Defense Ministry reported that the country’s Navy plans to purchase 96 ships by 2020 under the development concept of naval support fleet

    Dont mix that with intention of the Russian Navy to acquire 90-100 fighting ships by 2020.

    Yeah that's what I had in mind. About 95 fighting ships.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Austin on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:54 am

    Well Thanks , Lets see how much of the 95 Fighting ships and 96 support vessel target they can meet , we are talking around ~ 190 ships by 2020  Shocked 

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:03 pm

    Austin wrote:Well Thanks , Lets see how much of the 95 Fighting ships and 96 support vessel target they can meet , we are talking around ~ 190 ships by 2020  Shocked 

    Subs included  Very Happy 

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:11 pm

    Ok I found the exact figure , it is 54 warships , 24 Submarines and 96 Aux vessel by 2020

    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130311/179945052/Russian-Navy-to-Receive-24-Subs-54-Warships-by-2020.html

    So total around ~ 175 Vessel all ships and subs included ......not bad if they can achieve it.



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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:10 am

    The Russian Black Sea Fleet will receive Six submarines  as a part of the 636.3 Project until 2016.

    Three submarines will be available to sailors this year.

    These are diesel-electric submarines: "Novorossiysk", "Rostov-on-Don," Stary Oskol." They belong to the third generation class of ships "Varshavyanka" (NATO – Kilo classification).

    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_01_18/Russian-fleet-to-recieve-powerful-submarines-to-guard-Black-sea-and-Mediterranean-basin-7837/

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:44 am

    Man I hate defense journos.

    The Novorosiisk was laid down in 2010, has just been launched, and is not yet commissioned.
    Stary Oskol was laid down 2 years later, has not been launched (and neither has the Rostov, which was laid down in late 2011), and they say all 3 will be commissioned THIS year?

    Bull.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:59 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahimtOnk4tk

    Good video from Burevestnik. At 3:56 you can see the modern 57mm mount.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  navyfield on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:07 pm

    Austin wrote:Well Thanks , Lets see how much of the 95 Fighting ships and 96 support vessel target they can meet , we are talking around ~ 190 ships by 2020  Shocked 
    its a joke ,once they start making real modern equipment youll see how their production stops to a crawl as is shown by newest frigates and destroyers.
    there are just too many narrow spots in production not even ussr style type crash program could help ,maybe they plan to buy more from france and south korea. that would be a good move if done smart.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:24 am

    its a joke ,once they start making real modern equipment youll see how their production stops to a crawl as is shown by newest frigates and destroyers.

    with the massive standardisation regime they have adopted once the first new frigates and destroyers are built things should speed up rapidly... the main delay with the destroyers is the Main SAM battery and the new main gun. Once the bugs are ironed out of those two however they are also deployed on all their new vessels too so they wont delay other projects.


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    Russian Navy Pilot Training Center Completion Delayed To November.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:37 pm

    MOSCOW, December 25 (RIA Novosti) – The Russian navy has pushed back the intended in-service date for a new deck-landing training installation by almost a year for undisclosed reasons, a building contractor involved in the project said Wednesday.
    The facility, known by its Russian acronym NITKA and being built in the Black Sea town of Yeisk, was originally due to enter service this month, the Defense Ministry said as recently as October.
    “The work schedule for NITKA has been delayed to November 2014,” said a management source from a contractor company involved in the project. The source did not say why the project had been delayed, but said it was at the Defense Ministry’s initiative and “was not connected to the state of the project. From our side, it was all ready to hand over in December this year.”
    Russian navy pilots previously used a similar facility nearby in Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula under a 1997 bilateral agreement, but Moscow told Kiev in September that it would stop using that base.
    The Russian Defense Ministry had previously said it was willing to upgrade the Ukrainian facility.
    A Russian navy Sukhoi Su-25UTG trainer made the first flight from the new Yeisk facility in July to test its ski-jump configuration runway, which simulates the flight deck of Russia’s only aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov.
    The navy currently operates Sukhoi Su-33 fighters from the carrier but is in the process of receiving the new Mikoyan MiG-29K, capable of air defense and strike missions.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:18 am

    The optimist that I am thinks the delay of a year might be to install new catapult systems for training to use new carriers and the upgraded K...

    Or it could be that all the radar and communication equipment needs to be upgraded... but I would think they should have already anticipated this and put new radar and sensor equipment in in the first place.

    It really only makes sense to me if they have just decided to go for a cat in the K upgrade which makes it worth while to delay the opening of the new facility while they add it there.

    The added advantage is that it will be installed in a year, but will allow practise and training with the system for quite some time before the upgraded K is back in service so hopefully they will iron out all the kinks is problems with the system.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:01 am

    GarryB wrote:The optimist that I am thinks the delay of a year might be to install new catapult systems for training to use new carriers and the upgraded K...

    Or it could be that all the radar and communication equipment needs to be upgraded... but I would think they should have already anticipated this and put new radar and sensor equipment in in the first place.

    It really only makes sense to me if they have just decided to go for a cat in the K upgrade which makes it worth while to delay the opening of the new facility while they add it there.

    The added advantage is that it will be installed in a year, but will allow practise and training with the system for quite some time before the upgraded K is back in service so hopefully they will iron out all the kinks is problems with the system.

    That would be awesome!
    Can the mig-29k be launched with cats?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:59 pm


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #2

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:00 am

    Thats Uglich isnt it? Excellent photo.

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