Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Share

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:20 am

    Bastion: Russia Develops Silo-Based Anti-Ship Missile System for Export

    The silo-based export version of the Bastion anti-ship missile system will meet the demands of countries which need to protect a limited area of their coastlines.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – A Russian military-industrial corporation has developed a silo-based Bastion anti-ship missile system specifically for exports, the general director of the state-owned Mashinostroeniya Corporation said Friday.

    “The project has been completed. Moreover, this was done mainly not even for the Russian Army because our expanse [of the country] allow us to solve tasks differently using a mobile complex, but [made] for countries that have a small territory and need to protect a limited area of their coastlines,” Alexander Leonov told journalists.

    He said the new system was “silo-based on the basis of the Bastion.” The system is capable of providing security along coastlines of more than 600 kilometers (just over 370 miles).

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160129/1033918829/bastion-russia-anti-ship-missile.html#ixzz3ydw3zxoO


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Book.
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 667
    Points : 730
    Join date : 2015-05-07
    Location : Oregon, USA

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Book. on Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:36 pm

    Russian bomber shown carrying anti-shipping missile in Syria
    Piotr Butowski, Warsaw - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly | 12 February 2016

    The Russian Ministry of Defence has released a video of a Sukhoi Su-34 'Fullback' bomber carrying the new Kh-35U (NATO designation AS-20 'Kayak') anti-shipping missile on operations over Syria.

    The on-board video, released on 11 February by the Arabic section of Russian state-broadcaster RT, shows the aircraft departing on a mission with at least one missile mounted on a port-side underwing hardpoint (while footage shot from the other side also shows a missile on the starboard hardpoint, it can't be verified that it is of the same aircraft).

    Development of the subsonic Kh-35 was begun by the Soviet Union in March 1983, following an assessment of the operational effectiveness of the Argentine-launched AIM-39 Exocet anti-shipping missile against the UK Royal Navy off the Falkland Islands the year before. The latest Kh-35U-variant is a The Kh-35U is a 550-kg (1,213lb) subsonic anti-ship missile that has been adapted for ship-, shore-, helicopter-, and aircraft-launched applications. While the outer-mould line remains the same as the earlier models, the newer version is powered by a smaller and lighter Saturn Izdeliye 64M turbofan (allowing for more fuel, and a doubling of range to 260 km).

    The missile was first trialled on the Su-34 in November 2010. Initial tests of the missile were completed in November 2012, with state acceptance tests following in 2013. It is now in series production at the Tactical Missiles Corporation's facility in Korolev near Moscow.

    http://www.janes.com/article/57975/russian-bomber-shown-carrying-anti-shipping-missile-in-syria



    Photo: Janes

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:05 am

    Pacific Fleet received Bastion missile complex

    The division equipped with Bastion coastal missile complex has been formed in the Pacific Fleet missile artillery brigade.

    The crews has passed special training course to operate the modern hardware. At present, the units are meeting qualification standards in deploying new complex in positional areas of Primorsky Krai.

    It is designed to provide protection of the sea coast and capable to engage surface ships of different targets and classes in conditions of fire and EW countermeasures.

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12079896@egNews


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    nastle77
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 137
    Points : 179
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    SSN-3b shaddock

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:46 pm

    SSN-3b shaddock was the primary weapon of the Kresta I , but they must have been obsolete by the 80s
    what kept them operational till th 90s ? were they primarily antiship or have a land attack nuclear role ?
    what tactics were used by the Kresta I and Kyndas to employ them ?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:18 am

    They are not really obsolete now...

    Modern air defences have a limit or capacity, and having lots of cheap simple missiles could be used to overwhelm any defence... their payload will still ruin your day and being subsonic is no handicap for harpoon or Exocet.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    nastle77
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 137
    Points : 179
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:They are not really obsolete now...

    Modern air defences have a limit or capacity, and having lots of cheap simple missiles could be used to overwhelm any defence... their payload will still ruin your day and being subsonic is no handicap for harpoon or Exocet.

    true they were probably easier to shoot down even by 80s standard however if like u said shot in salvoes then may overwhelm the defences of any NON-AEGIS cruiser/destroyer

    alternatively they may have a land attack role esp if tipped with TNW hitting naval bases and installations degrading fleet activities ? esp given their long range which will help the parent ship to stay well outside the range of any anti-ship missiles of enemy ships

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:46 am

    true they were probably easier to shoot down even by 80s standard however if like u said shot in salvoes then may overwhelm the defences of any NON-AEGIS cruiser/destroyer

    their main problem was their large size meaning that generally you would only have a relatively small salvo unless you got together a decent number of launch platforms.

    Of course the Falklands conflict showed single missile launches can get a result and the fact that none of the exocets are believed to have exploded properly makes you think of the damage a Styx could manage with almost three times the explosive and working detonators.

    their large size means more flexibility with warhead and guidance types, but their problem remains their launchers are bulky and large.

    For coastal defence you could line up hundreds of them or even thousands, which would be devastating.

    Even if it doesn't get through it will deplete ready to fire SAMs and if you fired them in waves you could keep a battle group on edge 24/7 to wear them out... each attack would be frightening and nerve wracking... and then at 3am in bad weather you get another attack... this time supported by aircraft and subs...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  max steel on Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:39 am

    Impact of Sunburn Missile ( in real time )


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:51 am

    Russia Test-Firing New Hypersonic Zircon Cruise Missiles for 5th-Gen Subs. russia russia

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160317/1036437650/zircon-hypersonic-cruise-missiles.html#ixzz4391DCjBz


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    AK-Rex
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 41
    Points : 41
    Join date : 2015-12-22

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  AK-Rex on Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:18 am

    George1 wrote:Russia Test-Firing New Hypersonic Zircon Cruise Missiles for 5th-Gen Subs.  russia  russia

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160317/1036437650/zircon-hypersonic-cruise-missiles.html#ixzz4391DCjBz

    Rus to arm its 5-gen submarine "Khaski" with hypersonic missile "Zircon"

    zg18
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 872
    Points : 948
    Join date : 2013-09-26
    Location : Zagreb , Croatia

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  zg18 on Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:58 am

    George1 wrote:Russia Test-Firing New Hypersonic Zircon Cruise Missiles for 5th-Gen Subs.  russia  russia

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160317/1036437650/zircon-hypersonic-cruise-missiles.html#ixzz4391DCjBz

    Nice! thumbsup

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:24 pm

    Photos of coastal missile complexes "Bastion-P" in the Northern Fleet

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1795334.html







    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:30 am

    The zircon should be standardised in shape and size and weight with existing weapons in the UKSK launchers put on new and upgraded ships of the Russian Navy.

    That means ships like the corvettes in the Caspian Sea able to carry Kalibr long range land attack missiles and Klub supersonic anti ship and anti sub weapons will also be able to carry hypersonic anti ship missiles soon... a huge step up in performance.

    The new technology could also be applied to a new version of Klub with a scramjet operating in low thrust settings for a long subsonic cruise at medium altitude to the target area followed by an acceleration and climb to hypersonic speed for the last portion of the attack...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:36 am

    GarryB wrote:The zircon should be standardised in shape and size and weight with existing weapons in the UKSK launchers put on new and upgraded ships of the Russian Navy.

    That means ships like the corvettes in the Caspian Sea able to carry Kalibr long range land attack missiles and Klub supersonic anti ship and anti sub weapons will also be able to carry hypersonic anti ship missiles soon... a huge step up in performance.

    The new technology could also be applied to a new version of Klub with a scramjet operating in low thrust settings for a long subsonic cruise at medium altitude to the target area followed by an acceleration and climb to hypersonic speed for the last portion of the attack...

    imgine that ASH with 32 Zircons is an a$$ CSG whooping experience Twisted Evil

    nastle77
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 137
    Points : 179
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    ICBM in anti-ship role during cold war

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:29 am

    Were their any plans to use the ICBM ( e.g from the Yankee class subs ) for anti-ship role during the cold war? I mean not in the traditional sense but to use them like a tactical nuclear weapon blotting out a small surface task force ?
    Is that even possible ?

    nastle77
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 137
    Points : 179
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:15 am

    GarryB wrote:
    true they were probably easier to shoot down even by 80s standard however if like u said shot in salvoes then may overwhelm the defences of any NON-AEGIS cruiser/destroyer

    their main problem was their large size meaning that generally you would only have a relatively small salvo unless you got together a decent number of launch platforms.

    Of course the Falklands conflict showed single missile launches can get a result and the fact that none of the exocets are believed to have exploded properly makes you think of the damage a Styx could manage with almost three times the explosive and working detonators.

    their large size means more flexibility with warhead and guidance types, but their problem remains their launchers are bulky and large.

    For coastal defence you could line up hundreds of them or even thousands, which would be devastating.

    Even if it doesn't get through it will deplete ready to fire SAMs and if you fired them in waves you could keep a battle group on edge 24/7 to wear them out... each attack would be frightening and nerve wracking... and then at 3am in bad weather you get another attack... this time supported by aircraft and subs...
    In the late cold war era the SSN-3 shaddocks Did they go through any kind of upgrades to keep them more modern and resistant to jamming than their 1970s versions?

    They they also have the problem of poor resolution and not able to pick up smaller ships like corvettes /MGB ?

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:08 pm

    Kh-35 and land targets...is there any upgrade expected? to have low cost alternative for small ships/export?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:36 am

    Were their any plans to use the ICBM ( e.g from the Yankee class subs ) for anti-ship role during the cold war? I mean not in the traditional sense but to use them like a tactical nuclear weapon blotting out a small surface task force ?

    Not as far as I am aware.

    Their guidance was stellar inertial, and their best feature was their short range requiring them operating just off the US coast where time of flight would be less than 10 minutes to target... making them very dangerous to the US.

    If you could pass information to the launch sub they could probably target open ocean, but it seems to be a rather unlikely use of such weapons.

    In the late cold war era the SSN-3 shaddocks Did they go through any kind of upgrades to keep them more modern and resistant to jamming than their 1970s versions?

    As far as I know the domestic model was vastly superior to the exported model, with the local product rather more sophisticated and capable.

    For instance the export model of Termit had either a radar guidance system or an IR system. The Domestic model reportedly had both.

    They they also have the problem of poor resolution and not able to pick up smaller ships like corvettes /MGB ?

    Hardly a problem... like saying an M16 has the fault that it can't accurately hit targets at 800m range.

    These missiles were intended to hit large ships and would be a bit of a waste on a smaller target.

    Kh-35 and land targets...is there any upgrade expected? to have low cost alternative for small ships/export?

    I have seen a few modification models including a reduced size 80km range missile of smaller size more suited to light ship or helo operation, but I have only heard of the original and the extended range improved model being in production.

    Certainly a range of guidance seekers would be interesting... a TV guidance system plus a data link would create a SLAM-ER type weapon, but then with the Kh-38 likely having similar versions the question becomes how many duplicating types do you need... The Kh-59 family is still in production too.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Big_Gazza
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 510
    Points : 534
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:57 am

    nastle77 wrote:
    In the late cold war era the SSN-3 shaddocks Did they go through any kind of upgrades to keep them more modern and resistant to jamming than their 1970s versions?

    They they also have the problem of poor resolution and not able to pick up smaller ships like corvettes /MGB ?

    The P-500 Bazalt (SS-N-12 Sandbox) was the modernised follow-on to the P-5 Shaddock.  The USSR didn't bother to modernise the old shaddock carriers like the Kynda or Kresta I classes, and only fitted the new missiles to new combatants like the Kiev and Slava cruisers.  P-500 was itself modernised as the Vulcan P-1000 and fitted to 3x Echo II boats and some of the Slavas.

    Not sure about P-5/SS-N-3 as its an old design, but P-500 & 1000 had very powerful active radars and would have had no problem picking up a corvette-sized vessel, but given that they were programmed to attack in swarms and to prioritise the large fleet targets, its unlikely they would select a puny corvette over other juicier victims Twisted Evil

    nastle77
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 137
    Points : 179
    Join date : 2015-07-25

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:07 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    In the late cold war era the SSN-3 shaddocks Did they go through any kind of upgrades to keep them more modern and resistant to jamming than their 1970s versions?

    They they also have the problem of poor resolution and not able to pick up smaller ships like corvettes /MGB ?

    The P-500 Bazalt (SS-N-12 Sandbox) was the modernised follow-on to the P-5 Shaddock.  The USSR didn't bother to modernise the old shaddock carriers like the Kynda or Kresta I classes, and only fitted the new missiles to new combatants like the Kiev and Slava cruisers.  P-500 was itself modernised as the Vulcan P-1000 and fitted to 3x Echo II boats and some of the Slavas.

    Not sure about P-5/SS-N-3 as its an old design, but P-500 & 1000 had very powerful active radars and would have had no problem picking up a corvette-sized vessel, but given that they were programmed to attack in swarms and to prioritise the large fleet targets, its unlikely they would select a puny corvette over other juicier victims Twisted Evil

    The Kynda and Kresta class can they ripple fire their missiles against a single target ? given the importance of the "first strike salvo" in the soviet naval doctrine and esp since the SSN-3 was likely equipped with tactical nukes

    I think the SSN-12 can be ripple fired and one missile can control the flight of the others in the salvo like the SSN-19 shipwreck, is that accurate for all P-500 bazalt carriers including Echo II class submarines ?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:17 am

    Live missiles don't last forever, so after being made and spending a set period of time in operational service they will end their operational lives and need to be replaced. This means even old missiles are kept in production to keep stocks current while expired missiles are fired off in tests including tests to ensure they can still perform their mission and also as targets for air defence systems too.

    The new build models will generally use improved components and systems... often incorporating modules and components from replacement systems where possible to reduce production costs.

    AFAIK the Soviet Antiship missiles are all designed for mass attack to overwhelm the defences of very strongly defended targets.

    The huge step forward with Kalibr and Klub is the unified launcher allowing all Russian vessels to be adapted to carry the same large missiles.

    It means more missiles can be carried and more importantly the variety of different types can be reduced. The cost of making so many different anti ship missiles that are not compatible in design or launcher makes things more expensive and harder.

    With Granit a Kirov class ship needs stocks of the missile in the ports it will operate from, while a Sovremmeny class operating from the same port needs stocks of Moskit. With an upgrade with UKSK launchers both vessels could carry Klub and Kalibr and later be upgraded to Zircon.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    GunshipDemocracy
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1516
    Points : 1558
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am

    GarryB wrote: It means more missiles can be carried and more importantly the variety of different types can be reduced. The cost of making so many different anti ship missiles that are not compatible in design or launcher makes things more expensive and harder.

    With Granit a Kirov class ship needs stocks of the missile in the ports it will operate from, while a Sovremmeny class operating from the same port needs stocks of Moskit. With an upgrade with UKSK launchers both vessels could carry Klub and Kalibr and later be upgraded to Zircon.


    Interesting is if RN plans to re-equip also remaining Project 1164 Atlant class. From size of launch cells it could use up 48 Calibrs...

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:24 am

    "Bastion" and "Bal" to be deployed in the Kuril Islands

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3477483&usg=ALkJrhhcQSgEeIowhsduNmV3sJBkmopVGw


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:55 am

    In Primorye, the Pacific Fleet missile troops first performed live firing of the complex "Bastion"



















    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2031272.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:28 am

    Nice... basically a land based Yakhont/Onyx.

    The next gen will likely be a land based Zircon...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Anti-Ship Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 12:00 am


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:00 am