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    Soviet era reserve vehicles.

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    TR1
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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:09 pm

    T-80 would be a terrible choice, when Russia still has a metric shit-ton of T-72s.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:14 pm

    TR1 wrote:T-80 would be a terrible choice, when Russia still has a metric shit-ton of T-72s.

    Why?
    If the issue is engine, you could replace it fairly cheaply with Ukrainian 6TD.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:38 pm

    1.) Syria has no experience with T-80s. Crews have lots of experience with T-72.
    2.) Fuel consumption.
    3.) T-72B is better armored, and auto loader is a bit less exposed.
    4.) Urban combat makes the T-80s advantages (missile use, more advanced fire control) minimal.

    Take your pick.

    Replacing with 6TD is neither cheap not easy, and is especially non applicable in this scenario.
    Syria needs tanks it can fight with, for cheap.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:42 pm

    TR1 wrote:1.) Syria has no experience with T-80s. Crews have lots of experience with T-72.
    2.) Fuel consumption.
    3.) T-72B is better armored, and auto loader is a bit less exposed.
    4.) Urban combat makes the T-80s advantages (missile use, more advanced fire control) minimal.

    Take your pick.

    Replacing with 6TD is neither cheap not easy, and is especially non applicable in this scenario.
    Syria needs tanks it can fight with, for cheap.


    Oh, you meant Syria...

    I was thinking more of just simple export Smile
    My bad...

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:58 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Give some T-80s and BMP-2s to Syria and maybe even bulgaria Razz ?

    There is a fear from the west that Russia-Iran oil for goods deal inculudes Syria also and if you look at Russian plans to withdraw 14 000 armour this year, much of it could end up in Syria as it should in that case. Excellent deal for Russia.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:44 am

    There is a fear from the west that Russia-Iran oil for goods deal inculudes Syria also and if you look at Russian plans to withdraw 14 000 armour this year, much of it could end up in Syria as it should in that case. Excellent deal for Russia.

    And excellent deal for Syria.

    Of the 14,000 vehicles withdrawn this year only a small percentage will be MBTs... for every MBT there are dozens of other vehicles.

    Personally I think a BTR-80 or BRDM-3 would be fun... the latter being the one with the fully retractable 5 tube launcher for the AT-4/AT-5 missile system.

    A Shilka would be a hoot, and an OSA would be fun too.

    A Scud missile truck would be fun... especially if you remodelled it into a campertruck with a fake missile that does not raise that can be used for extra internal volume.


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    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:51 pm

    thanks for the replies. does anyone an the article about the withdrawal of the 14,000 vehicles?

    I wonder if they will upgrade any of the older stuff and sell as export to poorer countries, if they will just focus on selling modern stuff?

    Id imagine that Syria, and some of the poor custom union countries may get some aswell as Tajkistan army more upto date vehicles or just more vehicles for when the pull out in Afhgan happens.


    I suppose they can also be used as bargaining chips with poorer countries or to sweeten deals.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:18 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:thanks for the replies. does anyone an the article about the withdrawal of the 14,000 vehicles?

    I wonder if they will upgrade any of the older stuff and sell as export to poorer countries, if they will just focus on selling modern stuff?

    Id imagine that Syria, and some of the poor custom union countries may get some aswell as Tajkistan army more upto date vehicles or just more vehicles for when the pull out in Afhgan happens.


    I suppose they can also be used as bargaining chips with poorer countries or to sweeten deals.

    Here is the LINK

    Than you have this link

    Russia to Supply Arms to Kyrgyzstan in 2014

    and I guess some of withdrawn arms will end up in Kyrgyzstan ...

    and this link

    Moscow to rearm Tajikistan’s army

    so yes, I think on withdrawn weapons will be applied modernization and weapons transfered to its destination

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  eehnie on Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:50 am

    Mobile warfare that seems to be out of the Russian reserve:

    Being in charge of the defense of some of the less advanced countries, and in the case of having some of them (not all, of course), this is the old mobile warfare that I would sale for fast use, without buy new units and without expend money on upgrades or repairs:

    BM-13
    SU-100
    T-34
    BM-24
    BTR-40
    BTR-152
    BM-14
    BRDM-1
    PT-76
    BTR-50
    SA-9
    GT-MU

    Il-28
    MiG-15
    Tu-16
    MiG-17

    This is the old mobile warfare that I would keep, without spend money on upgrades basically because they are too old:

    FROG-1
    ZSU-57-2
    FROG-2
    FROG-3/5
    ASU-85
    IS-10/T-10
    SS-12/22
    FROG-7
    T-54
    T-62
    T-55

    MiG-19
    Yak-27
    Su-9
    Su-11
    Yak-28
    Su-7
    Yak-38
    Su-15

    Some of the warfare of this group was not exported, but I wanted to put all them together. Also I wanted to include the aircrafts in all the groups.

    And this would be the old mobile warfare that I would keep and where I would be open to upgrades:

    T-64

    MiG-21

    Mobile warfare that seems to be in the Russian reserve:

    I would be open to buy every type of vehicle that Russia wants to quit from its reserve warfare, at the right price, except the Be-12 and the Il-38, the alone of the current mobile warfare of Russia that would go to the first group when retired.


    Last edited by eehnie on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    MT-LB another soviet hero

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:50 am

    when people think of soviet hero's (in terms of equipment etc) most will automatically think T-55, T-72, BMP-1, BM-21, Mig-21 and Mig-25 etc etc,

    But one piece of equipment that often gets forgotten about and many people even over look it, is the MT-LB. Why is it a Soviet hero? i think it has to be said one word comes to mind versatility and the fact its still in wide spread use and in vast numbers, its been used in just about every form of armour vehicle variant known to man. Its also still being purchased by countries, Iraq recently placed an order for roughly 500 MT-LB's armed with ZU-23-2 23.

    A brief description of the vehicle taken from source - The crew, a driver and a commander/gunner sit in a compartment at the front of the vehicle, with the engine behind them. A compartment at the rear enables up to 11 infantry to be carried or a cargo of up to 2,000 kg. A load of 6,500 kg can be towed. The vehicle is fully amphibious, being propelled by its tracks in the water.

    A small turret at the front of the vehicle fits a 7.62 mm PKT machine gun with 360 degree manual traverse and an elevation of -5 to +30 degrees. The vehicle is lightly armoured against small arms and shell splinters with a thickness of 3 to 10 mm of steel. The infantry compartment has two hatches over the top, which open forwards. There are four firing ports - one in either side of the hull, the other two in the rear twin doors of the infantry compartment.

    The driver is provided with a TVN-2 infra-red periscope, which in combination with the OU-3GK infra-red/white light search light provides a range of about 40 m. All vehicles include an NBC system.

    Below is a list of some of its uses:

    Artillery tractor
    Ambulance
    Arctic (climate) vehicle
    Ground surveillance radar vehicle
    Anti-tank version armed with AT-6
    NBC reconnaissance
    Engineer vehicle, with an hydraulic dozer blade and an extendable hydraulic arm with a bucket and armoured recovery and repair.
    Command vehicle
    Comms and SIGINT vehicle
    Artillery observer vehicle
    Mine-laying systems vehicle
    Electronic warfare system vehicle

    and more common versions known to many

    Anti air Strela-10 (SA-13 Gopher) system
    Artillery in the following forms of:
    2S1 122mm howitzer system,
    Chosta 120mm mortar system,
    system armed with the 82mm automatic mortar system 2B14 Podnos.

    its also spawned the MT-LBu which shared some similar roles

    it was also used as an APC and a form of cheap IFV having various turrets attached such as:
    14.5mm
    GSh-23V 23 mm
    AGS-17/AGS-30
    NSV/Kord 12.7 mm
    GSh-30K 30 mm
    ZSU 23-2
    ZSU 23-2 + Igla SAM system (anti air system)
    Kornet ATGM system
    turret from BTR 80
    and a various combinations of the above

    so as you can see the list of uses are almost endless. I think despite its thin armour this vehicle used in APC/IFV form is a cheap decent alternative to more expensive IFV, for armed forces on budget this could be a great alternative and Russia has 1,000's in storage to sell. I have to say again that the key strength and success of this vehicle has been down to its versatility and as an added bonus its cheap.

    it would be nice to see other peoples views on the MT-LB and do you think its worthy to be included in the long list of Soviet hero's??

    some pics below including some different variants

















    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:04 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : pics)

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  Book. on Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:36 am

    I like MT-LBu. 15 ton 300hp. thumbsup

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:43 pm

    Surely the strongest Sovietic designs of the post World War II were done in the 1970s. There is still a good number of them that remain in production and very actual, then it would be too early to select the bests.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  MonkeymodelBananaRepublic on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:16 am

    I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago?

    When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles?

    When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust?

    If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials...

    Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks?

    Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes"

    With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ?

    I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army?

    Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well?

    How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc

    Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  franco on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:25 am

    I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago? Junking or storage for possible sales.

    When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles? Understand 55 & 62 to junk. T-64 storage for possible sale.

    When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust? Out in the open with at most a tarp. This includes used equipment. Just starting to build vehicle shelters.

    If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials...

    Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks? Most are junk. BMP-1 & 2's are not popular.


    Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes"

    With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ? Really don't see it.

    I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army? What reserve army are you talking about?

    Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well? Not sure what you are talking about.

    How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc ... Junk is junk. A T-62 would be 40-50 years old.

    Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:51 am

    You generally get bare minimum return when scrapping tanks... you can't just take the hull and melt it down and suddenly have 40 tons of high quality steel to sell on the open market.

    Building shelters would cost more money than scrapping them will recover and then what do you do with the shelters when the contents are scrapped?

    Reserve forces are soldiers from the 90s and 80s and 70s that can still fight that will be called up when needed.

    Equipping them with weapons and equipment they likely trained on makes more sense than having to train them on the new stuff.

    There is no point in using old tank hulls to make new IFVs when the new tank based vehicles will have tank based everything anyway.

    Units that don't require tank level protection will operate in lighter vehicles.... for a reason.

    Note in terms of tanks being kept or not it is not an accident that the scrapped tanks had 100mm rifled guns and 115mm smoothbore guns and the tanks to be retained have 125mm guns... Re-gunning with new model guns would allow new model ammo to be used by all tanks... obviously new comms and APS and ERA etc would also be added and new sights etc.


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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:47 am

    MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago?

    When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles?

    When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust?

    If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials...

    Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks?

    Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes"

    With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ?

    I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army?

    Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well?

    How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc

    Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so

    This is how Object 187s look today, now imagine how look those 2k+ of T55s and T62s that RuMOD has in reserve.



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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  eehnie on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:04 am

    Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so. They are ver interesting questions. I myself, I'm trying to find the answer to some.

    I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army? About the warfare, the active force includes the warfare working every day in the defense of Russia. The reserve includes the warfare owned by the Russian Armed Forces that is stored and out of the daily work (as consequence nothing to do with other security forces outside the Armed Forces that you mentioned). The reserve warfare is used in conflicts when the Russian gouvernment wants not to touch its active force and need not it. I look less about the soldiers and its status.

    When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust? For the warfare stored since years ago, the conditions have not been good. This begins to change for a little more modern warfare that begins to be stored recently.

    If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials... The cost was very high for the big numbers of vehicles stored. Also to scrape them has a cost that was not affordable for all at the same time. The reserve warfare is to be used if needed, must be useful.

    Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well? The reserve warfare is used many times by former veteran soldiers that worked with them before.

    I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago? It is a very interesting question. There are not many news about. I think the war in Donbass had some effect, but I think the plan has been developed, and must be close to be completed

    When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles? I think the plan is just to scrape all them, and I think the plan was developed mostly before the war in 2014, because we have not seen these tanks to be used in the war of Donbass. If any, the Donbass was the right place to see some of them, but it happened not. The numbers of T-55, T-62 and T-64 that keep The Military Balance in 2016 for the numbers of these tanks in the reserve, is the same that they had in 2012. Even it is very rare to see them including again some BTR-50 in 2016 after years out. I do not think they are realistic numbers. Other sources better updated on the oldest warfare like warfare.be have all or almost all them as scraped.

    With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ? Russia stoped in 2010 the development and procurement of most of the programs like this, this included. They do for other countries.

    Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes" A good number of countries use older Russian tanks than the T-72, but massive sales were not in the plan. Surely too big numbers and too late for it.

    How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc With higher investment on maintenance surely these vehicles would remain longer, but it requires more money. It is clear that every vehicle scraped has been exhausted and can not be used more. As example Russia does some subast with unarmoured transport vehicles (trucks and cars) of different age.

    Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks? The BMP-1 was not between the warfare decommissioned earlier this decade, but is between the oldest remaining. Surely the condition is not as good as should. Basically the plan should be decommission (sale or scrape) in the following years when the procurement of new IFVs (Kurganets-25) advance, and more BMP-2 become stored. I do not expect more reductions of the mobile warfare in the following 10 years.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  MonkeymodelBananaRepublic on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:25 pm

    Thank you for the informative replies!

    The weathering on object 187 is terrible and its only 30 years old, I can understand the poor condition tanks built before mid 1980s must be in. My country has less than 100 tanks and these are taken care of religiously, its hard to imagine leaving thousands of MBT out to rust or let them go. The scales of industry are unimaginable. So it would appear that as best can made out that over the last 2 years t55 & t62 have been scraped or left to their fate in junkyards. Wikipedia is very wrong in its webpage list of russian ground forces equipment, its saying there are still thousands in storage. Not a super high quality source i know, but only one i can find in english, for some reason warfare.be and warfare.ru dont work on my browser so i cannot see numbers they are listing for different pieces of equipment.

    t64 is being given in small numbers to donbass and otherwise at this stage kept in storage for reserve forces to use for future hybrid conflicts similar to ukraine i suppose? I havent heard of any sales the last 2 years of t64s, only 50 or so to the congo and they were from ukraine I think. I think uzbekistan has something in the order of almost 1,000 t64 inherited from USSR. It sounds like BMP1 for now are still being used in small numbers but will then go for scraping and junkyards before the end of this decade with arrival of new platforms. With such large numbers of old soviet vehicles where are these junkyards, they must be colossal in their size!? Are they located in the middle of no-where in russia or are they close to populated areas? My country does not have military junkyards to my knowledge.

    My numbers are not good - I think these 3 types of MBT added together are only 6,000 vehicles. What happened to the other 8,000 vehicles were there any notable sales to central asia or africa of this second hand equipment? North korea and afghanistan might have use for some of this stuff? From what I have seen sales to central asia have mostly been new items, not second hand e.g. T90, new t72s, new aircraft, bmp3s as there is a much larger profit to be made and it keeps arms industry working (reasonable).

    Will the MTLBs be kept for future or are they slated to be pulled as well?

    I wonder, once the syrian war is over the country will need replacement armaments and it will be bankrupt. It might be a good place to sell reserve equipment to afterall they would be familiar with it and i imagine prices that russia could get for them would be small and thus affordable for syria. Currently is russia supplying syria with some of its reserve vehicles as replacements for syrian losses? In the media i have only seen russia supplying brand new weapons like the yaks and t90s.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  Militarov on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:47 pm

    MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:Thank you for the informative replies!

    The weathering on object 187 is terrible and its only 30 years old, I can understand the poor condition tanks built before mid 1980s must be in. My country has less than 100 tanks and these are taken care of religiously, its hard to imagine leaving thousands of MBT out to rust or let them go. The scales of industry are unimaginable. So it would appear that as best can made out that over the last 2 years t55 & t62 have been scraped or left to their fate in junkyards. Wikipedia is very wrong in its webpage list of russian ground forces equipment, its saying there are still thousands in storage. Not a super high quality source i know, but only one i can find in english, for some reason warfare.be and warfare.ru dont work on my browser so i cannot see numbers they are listing for different pieces of equipment.

    t64 is being given in small numbers to donbass and otherwise at this stage kept in storage for reserve forces to use for future hybrid conflicts similar to ukraine i suppose? I havent heard of any sales the last 2 years of t64s, only 50 or so to the congo and they were from ukraine I think. I think uzbekistan has something in the order of almost 1,000 t64 inherited from USSR. It sounds like BMP1 for now are still being used in small numbers but will then go for scraping and junkyards before the end of this decade with arrival of new platforms. With such large numbers of old soviet vehicles where are these junkyards, they must be colossal in their size!? Are they located in the middle of no-where in russia or are they close to populated areas? My country does not have military junkyards to my knowledge.

    My numbers are not good - I think these 3 types of MBT added together are only 6,000 vehicles. What happened to the other 8,000 vehicles were there any notable sales to central asia or africa of this second hand equipment? North korea and afghanistan might have use for some of this stuff? From what I have seen sales to central asia have mostly been new items, not second hand e.g. T90, new t72s, new aircraft, bmp3s as there is a much larger profit to be made and it keeps arms industry working (reasonable).

    Will the MTLBs be kept for future or are they slated to be pulled as well?

    I wonder, once the syrian war is over the country will need replacement armaments and it will be bankrupt. It might be a good place to sell reserve equipment to afterall they would be familiar with it and i imagine prices that russia could get for them would be small and thus affordable for syria. Currently is russia supplying syria with some of its reserve vehicles as replacements for syrian losses? In the media i have only seen russia supplying brand new weapons like the yaks and t90s.

    Look even worse inside:




    Now when its about numbers of reserve, some broad estimates are that only about 3k of T-55s and T-62s remain with about same amout of T-64s. Rest seem to be mainly scrapped , turned into targets on proving grounds, some canibalised completely and sold for spares around the world.

    Scrapping the tanks is actually expencive job. You need metalworks with big enough cranes and furnaces that can lift whole body of the tank to the melting "pot"  because cutting them is verrryyy expencive. They just disasemble them and then lift piece by piece without cutting, if cutting is required it kinda gets horribly expencive.

    Price of T-55 and T-62 on the market is 120-150 USD per ton, hence they are so cheap its not even worth scrapping them.

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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:50 pm

    MonkeymodelBananaRepublic wrote:Thank you for the informative replies!

    The weathering on object 187 is terrible and its only 30 years old, I can understand the poor condition tanks built before mid 1980s must be in. My country has less than 100 tanks and these are taken care of religiously, its hard to imagine leaving thousands of MBT out to rust or let them go. The scales of industry are unimaginable. So it would appear that as best can made out that over the last 2 years t55 & t62 have been scraped or left to their fate in junkyards. Wikipedia is very wrong in its webpage list of russian ground forces equipment, its saying there are still thousands in storage. Not a super high quality source i know, but only one i can find in english, for some reason warfare.be and warfare.ru dont work on my browser so i cannot see numbers they are listing for different pieces of equipment.

    t64 is being given in small numbers to donbass and otherwise at this stage kept in storage for reserve forces to use for future hybrid conflicts similar to ukraine i suppose? I havent heard of any sales the last 2 years of t64s, only 50 or so to the congo and they were from ukraine I think. I think uzbekistan has something in the order of almost 1,000 t64 inherited from USSR. It sounds like BMP1 for now are still being used in small numbers but will then go for scraping and junkyards before the end of this decade with arrival of new platforms. With such large numbers of old soviet vehicles where are these junkyards, they must be colossal in their size!? Are they located in the middle of no-where in russia or are they close to populated areas? My country does not have military junkyards to my knowledge.

    My numbers are not good - I think these 3 types of MBT added together are only 6,000 vehicles. What happened to the other 8,000 vehicles were there any notable sales to central asia or africa of this second hand equipment? North korea and afghanistan might have use for some of this stuff? From what I have seen sales to central asia have mostly been new items, not second hand e.g. T90, new t72s, new aircraft, bmp3s as there is a much larger profit to be made and it keeps arms industry working (reasonable).

    Will the MTLBs be kept for future or are they slated to be pulled as well?

    I wonder, once the syrian war is over the country will need replacement armaments and it will be bankrupt. It might be a good place to sell reserve equipment to afterall they would be familiar with it and i imagine prices that russia could get for them would be small and thus affordable for syria. Currently is russia supplying syria with some of its reserve vehicles as replacements for syrian losses? In the media i have only seen russia supplying brand new weapons like the yaks and t90s.

    even if Russia wants to sell its old t-55/62/64, BMPs, MTLBs etc they must find customers to buy it. You cant expect that russia offers for example to Uzbekistan to sell them old stuff and they just say yes we buy it. Why to do it? Are they going to have a war to need even old tanks?? of course no
    North Korea is a different case. There is embargo from UN and Russia also support it. The only equipment they have sold to N.Korea after the USSR era are some old BTRs and in very small numbers. And they have copied those types and produse their own tanks on old soviet type tank basis.
    Afghanistan has taken old equipment from a lot of countries but i think its in the form of donation. I doubt that they can give money even to buy sth old. Their Mi-17s are with US payment.
    And what we havent consider enough is that old T-55, BMP-1 almost exist in all these countries we discuss. Afghanistan, african countries already have them from soviet era. Look the Nicaragua example, they recently took T-72s from Russia, they didnt take T-55/T-62

    So for this old stuff the options are scraping or donation in small numbers is my conclusion


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    Re: Soviet era reserve vehicles.

    Post  eehnie on Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:20 am

    I do not know if the pictures of the object 187 are from 2016 or before. It is necessary to take into account that these are prototypes of a tank that was not accepted and entered not in service. I really do not think that the stored T-55 or T-62 since the 1980s would be in worse condition. I doubt it.

    In the reports of 2016 of sales and subasts of material and scrap rests of the Russian Armed Forces I see:

    - Trucks and cars, subasted in use, as spare parts for civil vehicles, or as scrap. Many of them, some not as old. It seems that every thing older than the Ural-4320 or the Kamaz-4310 (and their variants) is being retired. And is logical. In unarmoured trucks and cars there is not sense to keep a reserve of vehicles like for the armoured vehicles, because in case of need, civil vehicles can be incorporated.
    - Some (not many) rests of scrap of engineering vehicles based mostly on civilian platforms, AT-T, T-55, T-54, and very few on the T-64, but not the tanks themselves that seem to have been scrapped before. This would be in line with the data of warfare.be (100 T-55 and the T-62 and T-64 finished).
    - I see not rests of scrap from pieces of towed artillery, something very habitual before. Also the scrapping in this chapter seems to be finished. Only some ammunition scrapped.
    - Some rests of scrap of some warfare in use. I understand they are broken parts replaced or not useful parts of canivalized units (some thing of MT-LB, BMP-2, 2S1 and BMP-3).

    According with this link the process of elimination of the T-55, T-62 T-64 and other old armoured vehicles begins in 2011.

    http://stat.economy.mil.ru/economy/news/more.htm?id=11010744@egNews

    For land warfare is more difficult to see, but between the ships scrapped in 2016 according to the same reports, we can see that all the ships which decommission data can be determined easily, have been decommissioned between 2009 and 2015. At this point the land and sea decommissioned warfare remains not too long without scrapping. Russia is improving on this.

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