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    Russian Naval Aviation: News

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    George1
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:42 pm

    i wonder why russia hasnt started any program for the replacement of old Tu-142 and Il-38
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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:44 am

    Su-25UTG attack aircraft

    The carrier based Su-25UTG is not an attack aircraft... it is a training aircraft used to train pilots to land fixed wing aircraft on carriers.

    The strike capability of the Kuznetsov consists of 12 Granit missiles in vertical silos in the deck.

    The future strike capability of the Kuznetsov will include the Mig-29K2 and perhaps eventually the PAK FA-K naval variant unless they use the new light 5th gen fighter as a basis for a naval fighter instead.

    i wonder why russia hasnt started any program for the replacement of old Tu-142 and Il-38

    The Tu-142 will likely be replaced with a mix of HALE and PAK DA, while Il-38 will either be replaced by the A-42 or modification of the Tu-214 or similar aircraft... the former offers the ability to land on water, while the latter would be cheaper to buy and operate.


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    AlfaT8
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:12 am

    runaway wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    i wonder why russia hasnt started any program for the replacement of old Tu-142 and Il-38

    The Tu-142 will likely be replaced with a mix of HALE and PAK DA, while Il-38 will either be replaced by the A-42 or modification of the Tu-214 or similar aircraft... the former offers the ability to land on water, while the latter would be cheaper to buy and operate.

    Tu-142 its a good aircraft, just upgrading the electronics and it will service for another 20 years. By the way i also think a stealth recon plane based on future PAK DA is a good and probably choice.

    Russian Pilots to Train in Enhanced Il-38N Aircraft in 2014
    Link

    Well i guess that's that.
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    runaway
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  runaway on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:19 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Well i guess that's that.

    Why? The Tu-142 is long range, Il-38 is short to medium.


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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:12 pm

    runaway wrote:

    Tu-142 its a good aircraft, just upgrading the electronics and it will service for another 20 years.

    It might, but you don't see anyone ordering production of 50 year old aircraft.  We need new designs for new lines.  We can't let America dominate the market.  That is why we lose so many Indian contracts.


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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:59 am

    If PAK DA is a subsonic flying wing then a non stealthy version could be very useful for an MPA role with long range... a cheap non stealthy model or semi stealthy model would be useful for a range of roles including with in the wing radar antenna arrays it would be useful for AWACS roles, with weapon payloads replaced with extra fuel as a tanker aircraft... with an enormous radar and dozens or hundreds of high speed long range anti aircraft missiles it could be used as a Mig-31 replacement... loitering around likely flight paths of incoming threats, or cooperating with ground based SAM units to deal with cruise missile and bomber threats...

    Of course the Tu-142 is still an excellent aircraft and despite its propellers it is a very capable machine... at low and medium level it is actually a faster aircraft than a B-52.


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    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:58 pm

    IMO it would be an extremely good idea to start developing a Ka-62 ASW variant also capable of carrying the X-35 and maybe even the Kalibr to replace the aging Ka-27 airframes, and also to have a variant similar in concept to the exceptional for its time UH-60 DAP but carrying much more advanced weapons like door mounted Yak-B guns and 2A42s as well, ataka and hermes missiles and rocket pods. It wont be as armored as the Ka-29 but would be a more powerful faster gunship.

    Why aren't there already such design proposals for this type of helo?
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    TR1
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:09 pm

    Because the Ka-62 is not at all in the same weight class as the Ka-27.

    The attack Blackhawk has had really mixed reviews in service btw. From what I read in latin American service, it is not a particularly successful conversion.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:36 am

    Yes and meanwhile the Ka-29 fulfills the job of an transport/attack helo better than the Mi-24.

    Any replacement should be done by the same design philosophy. These aircraft will not only be coming in hard and fast, but they will be LANDING straight afterwards, and will have a squad of troops on-board so any vulnerability could be catastrophic.

    The Ka-62 has a disadvantage in its tail rotor; take it out and you've taken out the aircraft + crew + squad.
    The Ka-29 has no such vulnerability and also has better armour in order to withstand enemy fire at close ranges and protect the men onboard.

    And that's not going into what TR1 mentioned - they aren't in the same weight class.

    The Ka-29 can take 16 men or 10 stretchers.
    It has a maximum load of 4 tons on its external sling (enabling some light vehicles to be carried).
    Overall it has up-to 6 tons of carrying capacity including almost 2 tons of weaponry alone over 4 pylons (not counting the 12.7mm Yak-B gatling gun mounted in the fuselage)

    The Ka-62 can take 14 men or 6 stretchers.
    It's external sling is only rated for 2.75 tons (limiting it to only the very lightest vehicles or cargos).
    And as its maximum carrying capacity is only 3 tons - if it uses its sling at max. capacity it's not going to have much power left for anything else. Even just carrying it's full compliment of 14 men & their gear; it's going to have substantially less spare capacity left for its weapons load-out than the Ka-29 would; and at 2 pylons compared to 4 - less space too.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:43 am

    I have heard there is an upgraded Ka-27M they are working on with an AESA radar fitted as standard.

    New lighter composite armour, new electronics and of course new engines.

    Earlier there was a report of a Ka-45 with a new shaped and new systems but have heard little about it since.


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    Viktor
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:55 am

    Concrat for new Su-30SM and YAK-130 for the Russian Navy was signed at the end of 2013.

    MO at the end of 2013, signed a contract for the supply of aircraft for the Navy

    [quote]The question whether it was true that in December 2013 a contract was signed for the supply of Russian naval aviation first batches of Su-30cm and trainer aircraft Yak-130 Borisov said: "The truth."

    Who dares to speculate about numbers? Very Happy 
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:39 pm

    Viktor wrote:Concrat for new Su-30SM and YAK-130 for the Russian Navy was signed at the end of 2013.

    MO at the end of 2013, signed a contract for the supply of aircraft for the Navy

    The question whether it was true that in December 2013 a contract was signed for the supply of Russian naval aviation first batches of Su-30cm and trainer aircraft Yak-130 Borisov said: "The truth."

    Who dares to speculate about numbers? Very Happy 

    Excellent news. Russian navy will need at least 80 Su-30SM, 6 for training and 1 squadron (12 planes) for every European fleet, 2 squadrons for Pacific fleet (1 for Vladivostok, 1 for Kamchatka). I hope air force will also buy additional Su-30SM to those 60 they have already ordered.
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    George1
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:15 pm

    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Concrat for new Su-30SM and YAK-130 for the Russian Navy was signed at the end of 2013.

    MO at the end of 2013, signed a contract for the supply of aircraft for the Navy

    The question whether it was true that in December 2013 a contract was signed for the supply of Russian naval aviation first batches of Su-30cm and trainer aircraft Yak-130 Borisov said: "The truth."

    Who dares to speculate about numbers? Very Happy 

    Excellent news. Russian navy will need at least 80 Su-30SM, 6 for training and 1 squadron (12 planes) for every European fleet, 2 squadrons for Pacific fleet (1 for Vladivostok, 1 for Kamchatka). I hope air force will also buy additional Su-30SM to those 60 they have already ordered.

    these aircrafts will be part of naval aviation ?
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:22 pm

    George1 wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Concrat for new Su-30SM and YAK-130 for the Russian Navy was signed at the end of 2013.

    MO at the end of 2013, signed a contract for the supply of aircraft for the Navy

    The question whether it was true that in December 2013 a contract was signed for the supply of Russian naval aviation first batches of Su-30cm and trainer aircraft Yak-130 Borisov said: "The truth."

    Who dares to speculate about numbers? Very Happy 

    Excellent news. Russian navy will need at least 80 Su-30SM, 6 for training and 1 squadron (12 planes) for every European fleet, 2 squadrons for Pacific fleet (1 for Vladivostok, 1 for Kamchatka). I hope air force will also buy additional Su-30SM to those 60 they have already ordered.

    these aircrafts will be part of naval aviation ?

    Yes, they will replace old Su-24 in naval aviation. They should not be mixed with those for air force.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:30 pm

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/46050/

    Russian Pacific fleet receive 6 Forpost (Searcher 2) UAVs in Kamchatka air base.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:31 pm

    Interesting article on bmpd wich is in line with medo thoughts

    Purchase of Su-30cm and Yak-130 aircraft for the Russian Navy Marine and problems with the Su-35S

    According to bmpd blog Russian MoD contracted 5 Su-30SM and 5 YAK-130 for Russian Navy by the end of 2013. But this is the sentence that caught my eye.

    According bmpd, was contracted five Su-30cm and five Yak-130, and further possible purchase for Marine aviation several dozen Su-30cm and a certain amount of the Yak-130

    and this is the part in line what medo was saying. Several dozen indicate at least 60 Su-30SM and possibly even more Su-30SM on order for RuAN and nice amount of YAK-130. All in all we

    might be seeing another 100+ fighter on order.  cheers 
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:05 pm

    Well I am not sure about 60, the translation is "several tens of planes", could be ~30, which was the number floated earlier. They are buying MiG-29Ks so the budget needs to be balanced between the two.
    How many Su-24s does Naval Aviation even operate? It is a couple dozen IIRC.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:19 pm

    Viktor wrote:Interesting article on bmpd wich is in line with medo thoughts

    Purchase of Su-30cm and Yak-130 aircraft for the Russian Navy Marine and problems with the Su-35S

    According to bmpd blog Russian MoD contracted 5 Su-30SM and 5 YAK-130 for Russian Navy by the end of 2013. But this is the sentence that caught my eye.

    According bmpd, was contracted five Su-30cm and five Yak-130, and further possible purchase for Marine aviation several dozen Su-30cm and a certain amount of the Yak-130

    and this is the part in line what medo was saying. Several dozen indicate at least 60 Su-30SM and possibly even more Su-30SM on order for RuAN and nice amount of YAK-130. All in all we

    might be seeing another 100+ fighter on order.  cheers 

    Maybe those 5 Su-30SM are ordered for this year additionally to 14 Su-30SM, which they need to complete a regiment in Far East. Maybe in next years Irkut will increase production to whole regiment per year, where 1 squadron will go to air force and 1 squadron to navy.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:21 pm

    TR1 wrote:Well I am not sure about 60, the translation is "several tens of planes", could be ~30, which was the number floated earlier. They are buying MiG-29Ks so the budget needs to be balanced between the two.
    How many Su-24s does Naval Aviation even operate? It is a couple dozen IIRC.

    60 ordered Su-30SM are for air force. All planes for navy will be new order.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:36 am

    TR1 wrote:Well I am not sure about 60, the translation is "several tens of planes", could be ~30, which was the number floated earlier. They are buying MiG-29Ks so the budget needs to be balanced between the two.
    How many Su-24s does Naval Aviation even operate? It is a couple dozen IIRC.

    Few: 1-4
    Several: 5-7
    Dozen: 12

    So several dozen = 60 planes at minimum (5x12)  Very Happy
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:38 am

    But the exact wording was "tens" in Russian, not dozens. "Neskolko" means several- that could be anywhere from 20-40-60 planes.
    They are replacing the Su-24s, of which there are only like 2 dozen in service. What would the Naval Aviation be replacing with 60 SMs, let alone more?
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:42 am

    http://lenta.ru/news/2014/01/17/su30sm/

    Well it looks like the number is in between our guesses:

    MOD wants to sign contracts for around 50 Su-30SM and 10 Yak-130 for the VMF.

    Curious why VMF won't just use the VVS Yaks....and where will these be based.

    A lot of work for Irkut, even with plans to phase out Flanker production by end of decade.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:51 am

    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/21448481/sushki-dlya-flota

    More details.

    Total cost of the deals is estimated to be around 2 billion dollars.

    Seems like a pretty good deal cost wise. Huge deal for Irkut.

    First planes will be delivered by the end of 2015, if everything goes to plan.
    The SMs will be based in Crimea (guess they worked things out with the Ukrainians? Why do I have a feeling that will be a problem in 5 years time), Kamchatka, and Kaliningrad.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GJ Flanker on Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:08 pm

    2 bil. US-$, maybe it will be split like this:

    10 Yak-130 x 20 mil./Yak-130 = 200 mil. US-$
    50 Su-30SM x 36 mil./Su-30SM = 1.800 mil. US-$
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:03 pm

    50 Su-30SM are only 4 squadrons (4x12), they need at least 2 more squadrons, 1 for Vladivostok and 1 for Murmansk. I hope air force will also buy additional 60 Su-30SM. With increasing production Irkut could build around 200 fighters till 2020.

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