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    Russian Naval Aviation: News

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  JohninMK on Thu May 19, 2016 2:18 pm

    What was so special about the Mi-14 compared with something like a Sea King or other sea optimised medium lift helicopter?

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Russian Defense Ministry plans to renew the production of Mi-14 Haze nuclear-capable amphibious anti-submarine helicopters, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said Thursday.

    “Yes, work is already being done in regard to this issue,” Borisov told RIA Novosti at the HeliRussia-2016 exposition in Moscow.

    The production of the Mi-14s was halted in 1980 and were removed from service in 1996 apparently under US pressure.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160519/1039881389/russia-military-helicopter.html#ixzz496TELiyf
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Militarov on Thu May 19, 2016 3:47 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What was so special about the Mi-14 compared with something like a Sea King or other sea optimised medium lift helicopter?

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Russian Defense Ministry plans to renew the production of Mi-14 Haze nuclear-capable amphibious anti-submarine helicopters, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said Thursday.

    “Yes, work is already being done in regard to this issue,” Borisov told RIA Novosti at the HeliRussia-2016 exposition in Moscow.

    The production of the Mi-14s was halted in 1980 and were removed from service in 1996 apparently under US pressure.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160519/1039881389/russia-military-helicopter.html#ixzz496TELiyf


    It was famous in NATO as "nuclear capable" simply due to fact it could carry Skat anti submarine depth bombs with nuclear warhead so i assume they were retired due to that reason. But on other hand it could be fitted to basically any major sized ASW helicopter so its just propaganda line as usually for wide public.

    But its very similar to Sea King in most of other aspects, being amphibious etc. Not all Sea King variants tho are advised to land on water as they got removed boyancy equipment.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  max steel on Fri May 20, 2016 10:57 pm

    All nuclear anti-submarine weapons were withdrawn from service by the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, and China in or around 1990. They were replaced by conventional weapons such as the Mark 54 Torpedo that provided ever-increasing accuracy and range as ASW technology improved.

    Are russians planning to revive nuclear anti-sub depth bombs also ?
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 12:21 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Helicopters Developing New Shipborne Chopper to Replace Ka-27

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039501009/russian-helicopters-new-replace-ka27.html#ixzz48TZu02Dm
    George1 wrote:Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160514/1039618244/russian-navy-ka52-ka60.html
    What about Ka-40?




    With its cabin structure which looks like a complete departure from the Ka-27 series and with possibly a rear opening/ramp like the Mi-8/17, it would be perfect for troop transport and insertion.

    Co-axial rotors demand higher ceiling for hangers which might not be sometimes desirable. So the likes of Ka-60 have openings. But there are other prospective models to cater for the larger needs like the Mi-38 variant.


    For the Ka-31AEW replacement, I would love to see the Ka-40/Ka-60/Mi-383 with radar panels (like 2m x 1m or as per fuselage size) installed/integrated on the side fuselage.
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 12:38 pm

    Austin wrote:New Russian Naval Helicopter Previewed
    by Vladimir Karnozov
    - May 17, 2016, 7:28 AM

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-05-17/new-russian-naval-helicopter-previewed

    From the above article
    The Ka-28 and Ka-31 are export versions, and the Ka-29 is a land-attack version for support of the marines. The Ka-31 is in service with the Indian and Chinese navies. An improved radar has been fitted to the Ka-31, for longer-range detection range of sea-skimming cruise missiles, resulting in the Ka-31R version. Kamov has also produced a few Ka-31SV versions, for over-land applications such as the location of artillery fire. To date, no firm orders for either new version of the Ka-31 have been announced.
    In the case of Syrian conflict I was thinking how to track the terrorists firing their projectiles and was thinking we need to have a airborne Zoopark like stuff probably based on a baloon or something like that. Didn't knew Kamov had such a variant.

    http://survincity.com/2011/08/a-rare-photograph-of-the-first-prototype/
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun May 22, 2016 1:53 pm

    Civilian version of the MINOGA project (Replacement for Ka-32)






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    Militarov

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    Concept of new naval helicopter from Kamov.

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 22, 2016 2:05 pm

    Dima wrote:
    Austin wrote:New Russian Naval Helicopter Previewed
    by Vladimir Karnozov
    - May 17, 2016, 7:28 AM

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-05-17/new-russian-naval-helicopter-previewed

    From the above article
    The Ka-28 and Ka-31 are export versions, and the Ka-29 is a land-attack version for support of the marines. The Ka-31 is in service with the Indian and Chinese navies. An improved radar has been fitted to the Ka-31, for longer-range detection range of sea-skimming cruise missiles, resulting in the Ka-31R version. Kamov has also produced a few Ka-31SV versions, for over-land applications such as the location of artillery fire. To date, no firm orders for either new version of the Ka-31 have been announced.
    In the case of Syrian conflict I was thinking how to track the terrorists firing their projectiles and was thinking we need to have a airborne Zoopark like stuff probably based on a baloon or something like that. Didn't knew Kamov had such a variant.

    http://survincity.com/2011/08/a-rare-photograph-of-the-first-prototype/

    Chinese also have own target detection and designation variant on their Mi-8 variants.
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 7:08 pm



    This is not the high-speed Kamov project, but the successor to the Ka-27 & 32. I think this is the closest to how the real Ka-40 might look like. I'd searched for this specific image online but couldn't get it. Thanks for posting.
    Similar to the present Ka-27 series yet very different. To be honest, I love it. Cool

    It would be good to have a 2-3m x 1-1.5m fixed radar panel on either side of the fuselage in the AEW variant. Such a configuration would be much better than the rotating one on the current Ka-31. In addition, smaller radar can be accommodated in the nose and a similar one can be installed at the rear. Just my humble wish. Very Happy
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    George1

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    An-140 Navy

    Post  George1 on Wed May 25, 2016 9:34 am

    Samara "Aviacor" handed over to the MoD an aircraft An-140 for the needs of the Navy

    This is the 9th An-140 delivered in overall to MoD


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:34 am

    George1 wrote:Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160514/1039618244/russian-navy-ka52-ka60.html

    For me the strongest option is the Ka-52, and the second best would be the Ka-31 (variant of the Ka-27).

    Not sure if I see the Ka-60/62 as a combat helicopter. Surely I would not order it. In the current ships that have helicopters, there is not need of an smaller (and less powerful) combat helicopter. And in the current ships that have not helicopters, if there is some space, but is not big enough for a Ka-52 or a Ka-31, it is likely to be used for drones of different role and size.

    About new designs, I would rule out to begin the design of new projects of combat helicopters that are not unmanned.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:24 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    George1 wrote:Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160514/1039618244/russian-navy-ka52-ka60.html

    For me the strongest option is the Ka-52, and the second best would be the Ka-31 (variant of the Ka-27).

    Not sure if I see the Ka-60/62 as a combat helicopter. Surely I would not order it. In the current ships that have helicopters, there is not need of an smaller (and less powerful) combat helicopter. And in the current ships that have not helicopters, if there is some space, but is not big enough for a Ka-52 or a Ka-31, it is likely to be used for drones of different role and size.

    About new designs, I would rule out to begin the design of new projects of combat helicopters that are not unmanned.

    ASW helicopter does not equal combat helicopter. Also size is being dictated by ships size. There are ASW variants of fairly small helicopters like AW159 Wildcat, AS565 Panther, Westland Lynx, Bell 212...
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:06 pm

    In my comment combat helicopters was refered to all the forms of combat roles, including ASW.

    Of course there are smaller helicopters doing this role but are fairly less powerful, and even more fragile. I do not see advantages of their use. Also I would expect the number of ships that currently have not space for a Ka-31 or Ka-52 but have space for a Ka-60 to be very small. The difference of size is not as big, and the coaxial rotor design of the Ka-31 and Ka-52 reduces the rotor diameter from what would be necessary for its size.

    To see it approximately with some numbers from the public data:

    Rotor diameter:
    14.50m Ka-50/52
    14.50m Ka-31
    13.50m Ka-60/62

    Disc area diameter (the diameter of the total area sweept by the main rotor of an helicopter):
    20.51m Ka-50/52 (330.3m2 disc area)
    ??.??m Ka-31 (I found no data but must be almost the same than for the Ka-50/52)
    13.50m Ka-60/62 (143.1m2 disc area)

    This want not to be a precise calculus of the space needed by helicopter, but maybe enough to have a proper idea about the space required by every model.

    Surely the Ka-60/62 can have more advantage in operational costs (by moving less weight), and it is useful for some non-combat roles like transport operations where is not needed as big takeoff weight. But in shipborne combat roles to use the Ka-60/62 would lead likely to lower shipborne air power by ship except in very few cases.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Militarov on Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:08 pm

    eehnie wrote:In my comment combat helicopters was refered to all the forms of combat roles, including ASW.

    Of course there are smaller helicopters doing this role but are fairly less powerful, and even more fragile. I do not see advantages of their use. Also I would expect the number of ships that currently have not space for a Ka-31 or Ka-52 but have space for a Ka-60 to be very small. The difference of size is not as big, and the coaxial rotor design of the Ka-31 and Ka-52 reduces the rotor diameter from what would be necessary for its size.

    To see it approximately with some numbers from the public data:

    Rotor diameter:
    14.50m Ka-50/52
    14.50m Ka-31
    13.50m Ka-60/62

    Disc area diameter (the diameter of the total area sweept by the main rotor of an helicopter):
    20.51m Ka-50/52 (330.3m2 disc area)
    ??.??m Ka-31 (I found no data but must be almost the same than for the Ka-50/52)
    13.50m Ka-60/62 (143.1m2 disc area)

    This want not to be a precise calculus of the space needed by helicopter, but maybe enough to have a proper idea about the space required by every model.

    Surely the Ka-60/62 can have more advantage in operational costs (by moving less weight), and it is useful for some non-combat roles like transport operations where is not needed as big takeoff weight. But in shipborne combat roles to use the Ka-60/62 would lead likely to lower shipborne air power by ship except in very few cases.

    Main rotor sweep R does not matter much as navalised platforms mostly have folding rotor blades when stored, and outside on helipad you will have enough space most likely on any ship as 3 sides are not limiting you.

    However what does matter is helicopter hangar, and weight that helipad can take. Max takeoff weight of Ka-27PL is almost double compared to Ka-60, 12t vs 6,4t. On some ships you might even be able to have two Ka-60s instead of one Ka-32 in same hangar.

    UK also wanted to switch to Merlin-only naval arm, and it proved to be wrong, as Merlins had issue operating from small vessels, they are far more expencive to buy, operate and maintain. So Merlins shall stick to major sized ships, carriers and shore, while Wildcats will do the rest.

    US Navy SH-60 Seahawk for an example is alot more comparable to Ka-60 than Ka-27 variants in terms of weight and size.

    When its about Ka-52K i dont think it will do much of ASW role, but rather strike and ASuW.
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:13 pm

    When the diffierence is between 1 or 0 helicopters, it is necessary the space for takeoff and landing.

    As said I do not think that the Ka-60/62 would make a big difference in the number of ships that can access to have 1 helicopter.

    In other cases of ships with more helicopters it would be necessary to analyze the difference between size, the difference in combat power and the difference in range, to see if to be able to have (as example) 5 Ka-60 instead of 4 Ka-52 or Ka-31 is an improvement on the combat power of the ship or not. In a first preview, it seems to me that the difference in size (related to the space needed in the ship) is lower than the difference in weight (related to the armament carried by every helicopter). It means that the advantage can be on the side of the Ka-52 and the Ka-31.
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:33 pm

    http://russianplanes.net/id190351

    Su-33 b/n 88 is in Zhukovsky. It seems they are testing something new in it. It would be good if they modernize it to Su-27SM level with N-001VEP radar.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:29 pm

    Run Silent, Run Scared: Russian Sub Hunter to Tote Powerful New Bomb

    Russian engineers are working to adapt the all-new Zagon-2 antisubmarine corrected air bomb for use by Mi-14 helicopters, RIA Novosti wrote citing Techmash Concern’s CEO Sergei Rusakov.

    “The Zagon-2 antisubmarine bomb developed by the Scientific Research Institute of Engineering was originally intended for use by Ka-28 helicopters but we are now looking for ways to use it on other types of aircraft, including the Mi-14,” Rusakov said.

    The Zagon-2 antisubmarine corrected air bomb is designed to engage submarines on the sea surface, under periscope and deep down.

    When dropped on underwater targets the 120-kilogram Zagon-2 bomb descends on a parachute, which is released at the moment the bomb splashes down. The bomb then sinks down under gravitational g-force and is steered towards the target by active sonar target location and a motion control system.

    It can also be dropped from Il-38 and Tu-42M anti-submarine planes.

    Dubbed as “a killer of submarines” the Mil Mi-14 is a nuclear-capable shore-based amphibious helicopter armed with a torpedo, twelve 64kg or eight 120kg depth bombs.

    The Mi-14 can also carry a 1 kiloton nuclear anti-submarine bomb weighting 1,600kg, capable of scuttling any underwater target within a radius of 800 meters.

    The Mi-14 features a watertight weapons bay allowing internal carriage of a single torpedo or eight depth charges, and search radar fitted under its nose.

    The Mi-14 gained its nickname of “a killer of submarines” in the late 1980s when it found and sank a NATO sub which had strayed into Soviet territorial waters.

    Under strong pressure from the United States, all of Russia’s Mi-14 helicopters were decommissioned in 1996.

    With the Russian Navy undergoing massive re-equipment, the Defense Ministry plans to renew the production of Mi-14 nuclear-capable amphibious anti-submarine helicopters in Kazan.

    http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160624/1041877132/russia-helicopter-bomb.html


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    IL-38 May

    Post  nastle77 on Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:06 am

    IL-38 what kind of ASW torpedoes it carried ?

    And what was its typical weapons load ? Most sources in english Ive seen just mention load carrying capacity without the typical operational weapons load
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:17 pm

    100th Anniversary of Naval Aviation and a skills competition at Yeisk:

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2022159.html
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    airstrike

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    Russia to modernize its carrier-based Su-33 jets

    Post  airstrike on Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:30 pm

    Russia to modernize its carrier-based Su-33 jets

    http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/01/russia-to-modernize-its-carrier-based-su-33-jets/
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:03 pm

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2097090.html

    In Gromov center Russia test modernized Su-33, which receive Gefest SVP-24 complex. There are no other informations about modernization of other equipment. To effectivelly work with SVP-24, Su-33 for sure receive satellite navigation and new data link to operate inside network.

    But to receive real multirole fighter, they should modernize Su-33 radar to N001VEP with extended range and modes to operate against ground and sea targets.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:26 pm

    medo wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2097090.html

    In Gromov center Russia test modernized Su-33, which receive Gefest SVP-24 complex. There are no other informations about modernization of other equipment. To effectivelly work with SVP-24, Su-33 for sure receive satellite navigation and new data link to operate inside network.

    But to receive real multirole fighter, they should modernize Su-33 radar to N001VEP with extended range and modes to operate against ground and sea targets.

    So Su-33s will become multi-role and will not be withdrawn


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:29 pm

    George1 wrote:
    medo wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2097090.html

    In Gromov center Russia test modernized Su-33, which receive Gefest SVP-24 complex. There are no other informations about modernization of other equipment. To effectivelly work with SVP-24, Su-33 for sure receive satellite navigation and new data link to operate inside network.

    But to receive real multirole fighter, they should modernize Su-33 radar to N001VEP with extended range and modes to operate against ground and sea targets.

    So Su-33s will become multi-role and will not be withdrawn

    There is not reason to retire them.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:34 pm

    eehnie wrote:

    There is not reason to retire them.

    i guess MiG-29Ks and Su-33s dont all fit in A.Kuznetsov


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:48 pm

    George1 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:

    There is not reason to retire them.

    i guess MiG-29Ks and Su-33s dont all fit in A.Kuznetsov

    It is possible to use both. One can be better for some missions the other for other. Even it is possible to use both at same time if the aircraft carrier is near enough of some land airfield.

    The Su-33 is still an aircraft very useful, and with some improvements can be better still.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:19 am

    George1 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:

    There is not reason to retire them.

    i guess MiG-29Ks and Su-33s dont all fit in A.Kuznetsov

    So you have spare if combat losses occur. Kuznetsov could take 26 Su-33 and 33 helos according to wiki. So if you leave 12 Su-33 you can probably take 24 Mig-29k leaving some helos.

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