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    Russian Naval Aviation: News

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Sun May 15, 2016 4:02 pm

    Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160514/1039618244/russian-navy-ka52-ka60.html


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    eehnie

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun May 15, 2016 11:42 pm

    For procurement of new units of helicopters in the short-mid term, I see right the option of variants of the current models in production.

    For procurement in the long term I see right the option of a new helicopter of next generation with significant changes improving the concept of helicopter (surely the most important of them can be the change to unmanned platforms).

    Also the Mi-14 can be a good option to take into account in the selection process, surely in the new units there are interesting updates.


    Last edited by eehnie on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 15, 2016 11:45 pm

    George1 wrote:Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160514/1039618244/russian-navy-ka52-ka60.html

    Actually they would need 2, depending on ship size. Ideally that new Ka-31 replacement we keep hearing about + Ka-60.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Mon May 16, 2016 3:38 am

    Militarov wrote:

    Actually they would need 2, depending on ship size. Ideally that new Ka-31 replacement we keep hearing about + Ka-60.

    i agree, or new one + Ka-60


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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 16, 2016 4:28 am

    Ka-60 will be kinda hard since right now Russia is just getting its production of VK-2500 going for its current helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28. The current ones used for it are French and based from a contract back in 2011 but obviously that wont work now. So Ka-60 development for military purposes will be pushed back for a couple more years to improve the VK-2500 to Mark III in order to get it powerful enough for the Ka-60.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Militarov on Mon May 16, 2016 4:46 am

    sepheronx wrote:Ka-60 will be kinda hard since right now Russia is just getting its production of VK-2500 going for its current helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28.  The current ones used for it are French and based from a contract back in 2011 but obviously that wont work now.  So Ka-60 development for military purposes will be pushed back for a couple more years to improve the VK-2500 to Mark III in order to get it powerful enough for the Ka-60.

    Well they mentioned K-226 navalised variant but i am not fan of that idea. Mi-14 restart project was also mentioned but its still too big for certain ships, that new replacement for Ka-27 family is also an option but it wont be ready for some years most likely.

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon May 16, 2016 5:40 am

    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Ka-60 will be kinda hard since right now Russia is just getting its production of VK-2500 going for its current helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28.  The current ones used for it are French and based from a contract back in 2011 but obviously that wont work now.  So Ka-60 development for military purposes will be pushed back for a couple more years to improve the VK-2500 to Mark III in order to get it powerful enough for the Ka-60.

    Well they mentioned K-226 navalised variant but i am not fan of that idea. Mi-14 restart project was also mentioned but its still too big for certain ships, that new replacement for Ka-27 family is also an option but it wont be ready for some years most likely.


    what is wrong with 226?  Ka-226 is not bad option for  small missile/patrol ships. Eventually accompanied by drones like Fregat. About Mi-14 is silence now I guess is dropped out from top priority list now...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 16, 2016 4:13 pm

    Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    Actually strictly speaking the Ka-31 is an AEW helicopter, or radar picket helo, and the Ka-60 is a transport helo, while the Ka-52 is an attack/CAS helo.

    The Ka-27 is the current ASW helo, the Ka-29 is the current troop transport helo, and the Ka-52 is the potential new attack/CAS/AShW helo.

    The modular Ka-226T helo has huge potential for smaller vessels as it can be used for a wide variety of roles with different modules attached.

    Also the Mi-14 can be a good option to take into account in the selection process, surely in the new units there are interesting updates.

    The Mi-14 is a very capable land based ASW helicopter...

    Actually they would need 2, depending on ship size. Ideally that new Ka-31 replacement we keep hearing about + Ka-60.

    The Ka-60 looks interesting, but it is a light 2.5 ton payload helo.

    A new replacement for the Helix models would be a good thing, but for the moment on a helicopter carrier like a Mistral or Russian equivalent the mix of Ka-52s for attack and Ka-29s for troop transport would be fine... a few Ka-27s for ASW would be useful too and some lighter helos like Ka-226s would be handy.

    Ka-60 will be kinda hard since right now Russia is just getting its production of VK-2500 going for its current helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28. The current ones used for it are French and based from a contract back in 2011 but obviously that wont work now. So Ka-60 development for military purposes will be pushed back for a couple more years to improve the VK-2500 to Mark III in order to get it powerful enough for the Ka-60.

    Not sure what you are smoking but I don't think the new 2,700hp engines for the 10-12 ton attack helos like Mi-28 and Ka-52 would be suitable for a Ka-60 that has a TOW of 6.5 tons... unless you are suggesting a single engined helo... From memory the Ka-60 had engines of about 1,200hp each that were Russian... it is the Ka-226T that has French engines AFAIK.


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    George1

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Mon May 16, 2016 5:02 pm

    well when they say for new naval helicopter i think they mean the standard ASW Helicopter for russian navy ships. So i t must be one it cant be 2 or combination (i exclude multi-role naval platforms that will take years to be constructed)


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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon May 16, 2016 5:30 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Ka-60 will be kinda hard since right now Russia is just getting its production of VK-2500 going for its current helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28.  The current ones used for it are French and based from a contract back in 2011 but obviously that wont work now.  So Ka-60 development for military purposes will be pushed back for a couple more years to improve the VK-2500 to Mark III in order to get it powerful enough for the Ka-60.

    The VK-2500 is too big for the KA-60/62. It uses smaller engines.
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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon May 16, 2016 6:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The Ka-27 is the current ASW helo, the Ka-29 is the current troop transport helo, and the Ka-52 is the potential new attack/CAS/AShW helo.


    Actually they would need 2, depending on ship size. Ideally that new Ka-31 replacement we keep hearing about + Ka-60.

    The Ka-60 looks interesting, but it is a light 2.5 ton payload helo.



    both Ka-60 and Ka-29 can have 2t internal payload...Ka-29 16 troops Ka-60 like 14 but civilians then maybe 10-12 troops, not that much different to this class of tasks

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 16, 2016 6:38 pm

    Maybe wiki is wrong but due to development issues of Saturn engines, they had to use French. And so thus Russia doesn't produce the smaller engine. So if they can bypass using one or if it is just not technically possible, then they will have to get to work on those Saturn engines.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Werewolf on Mon May 16, 2016 7:17 pm

    VK-2500 for KA-60? Why not go really big and install One D-136 engine?

    It is just as big as the cargo room+. We could probably fly to the moon.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 16, 2016 7:21 pm

    I got no clue regarding sizes, just stating fact that Russia isn't producing suitable engine for the Ka-60 atm, meaning it is a no go for the military, end of discussion. Care to carry this on nitpicking semantics and technicality, be my guest but isn't going to change the point about Saturn engines not existing for the helicopters thus no mil orders.

    Russia so far only produces one type of helicopters engines that are not kits from motor sitch, and I think you guys are capable of knowing which one that is. So unless they can make the engine tiny or actually get the Saturn -600 engines working properly, I think it will have to be a different helicopter


    Last edited by sepheronx on Mon May 16, 2016 7:38 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    medo

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Mon May 16, 2016 7:23 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Ka-60 will be kinda hard since right now Russia is just getting its production of VK-2500 going for its current helicopters Ka-52 and Mi-28.  The current ones used for it are French and based from a contract back in 2011 but obviously that wont work now.  So Ka-60 development for military purposes will be pushed back for a couple more years to improve the VK-2500 to Mark III in order to get it powerful enough for the Ka-60.

    Well they mentioned K-226 navalised variant but i am not fan of that idea. Mi-14 restart project was also mentioned but its still too big for certain ships, that new replacement for Ka-27 family is also an option but it wont be ready for some years most likely.


    what is wrong with 226?  Ka-226 is not bad option for  small missile/patrol ships. Eventually accompanied by drones like Fregat. About Mi-14 is silence now I guess is dropped out from top priority list now...

    As far as I know Ka-226 is only meant for Border Guard to be used on 22460 patrol ships. I'm not sure if NAVY will buy them as well.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 17, 2016 7:16 am

    Wasn't there some news report about Russia building larger and smaller engines to fill gaps in engine production?

    Russia simply cannot rely on foreign small engines.

    What happened to the RD-600 that was a 1,300hp engine?


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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 17, 2016 7:24 am

    RD-600 had apparent issues but that is all I have heard and so in 2011 they contracted a French company for the engines. Back then, Russia had no issues with Motor Sich, now they got real major issues with all foreign suppliers and the French company can only provide on account that these are not for military use. Technically though, Russia is making a big push for domestic production of engines, but it was only recent (really recent, like last year/this year) where VK-2500 engine production actually started in Russia. Of course others will follow suite, but it will take time. I imagine Klimov and Saturn will end up working on building all types of helicopter engines, but this is something Russia screwed itself over due to reliance on Motor Sich. But, thankfully sanctions happened so it was a reality check for the Russian industry and authorities that they have to actually do it themselves.

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Austin on Wed May 18, 2016 5:09 pm

    New Russian Naval Helicopter Previewed
    by Vladimir Karnozov
    - May 17, 2016, 7:28 AM

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-05-17/new-russian-naval-helicopter-previewed

    Russian Helicopters confirmed that a next-generation naval helicopter is being developed with funding from the Russian Ministry of Defense. During a press briefing that preceded the eighth annual HeliRussia exposition taking place this week, the company also discussed modifications to the existing line of Kamov naval helicopters.

    “We have long been lobbying for development of a next-generation rotorcraft for the navy. Today, the R&D effort is ongoing. Kamov has completed the outline design. The project awaits decisions by the defense ministry,” said Andrei Shibitov, deputy general manager for manufacturing and innovations at Russian Helicopters. He declined to confirm previous reports that a first flight could occur in 2018.

    Shibitov also played down previous reports that new naval rotorcraft will be based on the Kamov Ka-226 or the Ka-60. “This is a principally new platform with indigenous engines,” he said. But the design will not be made public until the defense ministry permits it, he added.

    The Ka-60 medium-lift helicopter first flew in 1998, as a potential replacement for the Mil Mi-2 series. Prototypes were subsequently displayed on various occasions. But although the Ka-60’s two NPO Saturn 1,300-hp RD-600V turboshafts gained certification in December 2003, no production orders were forthcoming. The Ka-60 then provided the basis for a civilian version (designated Ka-62), which was displayed in mockup form from 2012. After repeated delays it made its first flight on April 26, 2016. The Ka-62 would be powered by a pair of Turbomeca Ardiden 3G engines each developing 1,680 hp.

    At the press briefing, Andrei Boginsky, deputy minister for industry and trade, said that the French engine is economical and could be license-produced in Russia. But he also suggested that a foreign engine is not acceptable for “certain customers,” presumably meaning the Russian military. Boginsky said that the RD-600V still provides an alternative, if it can be “reworked for higher performance and suitability to both military and civilian customers.” A higher-power version of the Russian engine that produces 1,500 hp is being developed.

    Shibitov mentioned the major ongoing modification and refit program for the Ka-27/28/29/31 series being performed at the Russian Helicopters KUMAPE plant in Kumertau. The Russian Navy’s Ka-27 is being modernized as the Ka-27M involving replacement of the radar and antisubmarine warfare suite, enabling use of the Kh-35 antiship missile and modern torpedoes. The Navy conducted Ka-27M operational trials in 2012-2013, and approved the new radar. The modernized helicopter is expected to serve for another 10 to 15 years.

    The Ka-28 and Ka-31 are export versions, and the Ka-29 is a land-attack version for support of the marines. The Ka-31 is in service with the Indian and Chinese navies. An improved radar has been fitted to the Ka-31, for longer-range detection range of sea-skimming cruise missiles, resulting in the Ka-31R version. Kamov has also produced a few Ka-31SV versions, for over-land applications such as the location of artillery fire. To date, no firm orders for either new version of the Ka-31 have been announced.

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  JohninMK on Thu May 19, 2016 5:48 pm

    What was so special about the Mi-14 compared with something like a Sea King or other sea optimised medium lift helicopter?

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Russian Defense Ministry plans to renew the production of Mi-14 Haze nuclear-capable amphibious anti-submarine helicopters, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said Thursday.

    “Yes, work is already being done in regard to this issue,” Borisov told RIA Novosti at the HeliRussia-2016 exposition in Moscow.

    The production of the Mi-14s was halted in 1980 and were removed from service in 1996 apparently under US pressure.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160519/1039881389/russia-military-helicopter.html#ixzz496TELiyf
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Militarov on Thu May 19, 2016 7:17 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What was so special about the Mi-14 compared with something like a Sea King or other sea optimised medium lift helicopter?

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Russian Defense Ministry plans to renew the production of Mi-14 Haze nuclear-capable amphibious anti-submarine helicopters, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said Thursday.

    “Yes, work is already being done in regard to this issue,” Borisov told RIA Novosti at the HeliRussia-2016 exposition in Moscow.

    The production of the Mi-14s was halted in 1980 and were removed from service in 1996 apparently under US pressure.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160519/1039881389/russia-military-helicopter.html#ixzz496TELiyf


    It was famous in NATO as "nuclear capable" simply due to fact it could carry Skat anti submarine depth bombs with nuclear warhead so i assume they were retired due to that reason. But on other hand it could be fitted to basically any major sized ASW helicopter so its just propaganda line as usually for wide public.

    But its very similar to Sea King in most of other aspects, being amphibious etc. Not all Sea King variants tho are advised to land on water as they got removed boyancy equipment.
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    max steel

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  max steel on Sat May 21, 2016 2:27 am

    All nuclear anti-submarine weapons were withdrawn from service by the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, and China in or around 1990. They were replaced by conventional weapons such as the Mark 54 Torpedo that provided ever-increasing accuracy and range as ASW technology improved.

    Are russians planning to revive nuclear anti-sub depth bombs also ?
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 3:51 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Helicopters Developing New Shipborne Chopper to Replace Ka-27

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039501009/russian-helicopters-new-replace-ka27.html#ixzz48TZu02Dm
    George1 wrote:Russia's next naval (ASW) helicopter options:

    1. Ka-52
    2. Ka-31
    3. Ka-60
    4. New design

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160514/1039618244/russian-navy-ka52-ka60.html
    What about Ka-40?




    With its cabin structure which looks like a complete departure from the Ka-27 series and with possibly a rear opening/ramp like the Mi-8/17, it would be perfect for troop transport and insertion.

    Co-axial rotors demand higher ceiling for hangers which might not be sometimes desirable. So the likes of Ka-60 have openings. But there are other prospective models to cater for the larger needs like the Mi-38 variant.


    For the Ka-31AEW replacement, I would love to see the Ka-40/Ka-60/Mi-383 with radar panels (like 2m x 1m or as per fuselage size) installed/integrated on the side fuselage.
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    Dima

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Dima on Sun May 22, 2016 4:08 pm

    Austin wrote:New Russian Naval Helicopter Previewed
    by Vladimir Karnozov
    - May 17, 2016, 7:28 AM

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-05-17/new-russian-naval-helicopter-previewed

    From the above article
    The Ka-28 and Ka-31 are export versions, and the Ka-29 is a land-attack version for support of the marines. The Ka-31 is in service with the Indian and Chinese navies. An improved radar has been fitted to the Ka-31, for longer-range detection range of sea-skimming cruise missiles, resulting in the Ka-31R version. Kamov has also produced a few Ka-31SV versions, for over-land applications such as the location of artillery fire. To date, no firm orders for either new version of the Ka-31 have been announced.
    In the case of Syrian conflict I was thinking how to track the terrorists firing their projectiles and was thinking we need to have a airborne Zoopark like stuff probably based on a baloon or something like that. Didn't knew Kamov had such a variant.

    http://survincity.com/2011/08/a-rare-photograph-of-the-first-prototype/
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun May 22, 2016 5:23 pm

    Civilian version of the MINOGA project (Replacement for Ka-32)






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    Militarov

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    Concept of new naval helicopter from Kamov.

    Post  Militarov on Sun May 22, 2016 5:35 pm

    Dima wrote:
    Austin wrote:New Russian Naval Helicopter Previewed
    by Vladimir Karnozov
    - May 17, 2016, 7:28 AM

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-05-17/new-russian-naval-helicopter-previewed

    From the above article
    The Ka-28 and Ka-31 are export versions, and the Ka-29 is a land-attack version for support of the marines. The Ka-31 is in service with the Indian and Chinese navies. An improved radar has been fitted to the Ka-31, for longer-range detection range of sea-skimming cruise missiles, resulting in the Ka-31R version. Kamov has also produced a few Ka-31SV versions, for over-land applications such as the location of artillery fire. To date, no firm orders for either new version of the Ka-31 have been announced.
    In the case of Syrian conflict I was thinking how to track the terrorists firing their projectiles and was thinking we need to have a airborne Zoopark like stuff probably based on a baloon or something like that. Didn't knew Kamov had such a variant.

    http://survincity.com/2011/08/a-rare-photograph-of-the-first-prototype/

    Chinese also have own target detection and designation variant on their Mi-8 variants.

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