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    Su-27: News

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    medo
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:07 pm

    As far as I know, all Su-27SM have Al-31FM1 engines, same as Su-30M2.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Berkut on Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:09 pm

    medo wrote:As far as I know, all Su-27SM have Al-31FM1 engines, same as Su-30M2.
    No.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:15 pm

    So only new build Su-27SM have Al-31FM1 engines? Anyway, I remember, that I read in the time of Su-27SM prototype, that it will have more powerful engines than standard Su-27.

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    Why the SU-27 is largely superior to the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18

    Post  nemrod on Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:40 am



    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:44 pm

    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:23 pm

    max steel wrote:
    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Considering the article was written in 1992, it makes sense that the author believed that the F-22 would have replaced all legacy fighters by now, and in his opinion make the SU-27 a non-threat, sadly for him that didn't happen. Razz

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:09 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Considering the article was written in 1992, it makes sense that the author believed that the F-22 would have replaced all legacy fighters by now, and in his opinion make the SU-27 a non-threat, sadly for him that didn't happen. Razz

    I think the author meant that since the Cold War is over, America is unlikely to face Flankers as a major threat again.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:39 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Considering the article was written in 1992, it makes sense that the author believed that the F-22 would have replaced all legacy fighters by now, and in his opinion make the SU-27 a non-threat, sadly for him that didn't happen. Razz

    I think the author meant that since the Cold War is over, America is unlikely to face Flankers as a major threat again.
    Don't think so, the opening statements and the phrase "just as well" at the end, seem to be pointing out that both F-22 deployment and the new relations as factors that would render the Flanker a non-threat.Neutral

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Giulio on Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:42 pm

    Hello! I apologize, I did not follow the discussion, but I think that the Su-27 is a generation before the F-22, but the Sukhoi fighter has set the standards for the next fighter generation ...

    Please, has someone some pictures about Su-27 with external fuel tanks? I tried but I have not found a single one. I think that the Su-27 has three external stations able to carry drop tanks (like the MTB-200 ?)Thanks.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:48 am

    Giulio wrote:
    Please, has someone some pictures about Su-27 with external fuel tanks? I tried but I have not found a single one. I think that the Su-27 has three external stations able to carry drop tanks (like the MTB-200 ?)Thanks.


    So do i.

    Well Su-27S family was actually not designed to carry external tank. Until Su-27SMK Upgrade appeared in 1990's

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:03 pm

    Most early Su-27s are not fitted for external fuel tanks... the vast majority of the aircraft in Russian service don't operate with all of their internal fuel tanks with fuel in them... they normally operate less than one third full of fuel during normal operations.


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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:17 pm

    does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:20 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    i think about 100 have been upgraded to Su-27SM level


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:42 pm

    im curious on what airfoil used for Su-27 ? Anyone can give me a clue on it ?

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Berkut on Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:28 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:40 pm

    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:41 pm

    There was 53 Su-27SM. I think the first 5 were in Lipetsk training facility and than 48 serve in two Far East regiments. All the rest are Su-27SM3, 12 new build and now 36 are ordered for modernization. I don't know, how much it is cheaper, but Su-30M2 (equal to Su-27SM3) are new build multirole fighters, which could serve for another 30 to 40 years and their structure is already constructed for more powerful AL-31FM1 engines, while old Su-27 need reinforcements in their structures to use those more powerful engines. Su-30M2 work together with Su-27SM(3) and ideally in my opinion would be a three squadron regiment with two Su-27SM squadrons and one Su-30M2 squadron, which will operate as trainer, command post and dedicated ground attack fighter. With creating of four Su-27SM regiments, RuAF will need four Su-30M2 squadrons, what is around 50 planes, so they will have to order 30 more. I think around 2020 RuAF will receive around 200 Su-30SM and Su-35, which will replace the rest of old Su-27 fighters.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Manov on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:43 pm

    so we have more or less 90 Su-27SM and SM3, a 60 Su-30SM order, a 48 and a possible  similar order of Su-35 (96) and 16 (or 24? idk) Su-30M2.


    That gives us more or less 262 Modern Flankers (replacing all legacy flankers) It is indeed a great number in the context of the Armed forces modernization

    Eventually Pak Fa will come.

    110 Mig-31BM is also great too

    Around 120 Su-25sm to 2020 (sm3 standard)  its also excellent

    the contract for 124 Su-34 also replaces Su-24m and mr

    60 Gefest Su-24m2

    The weak part is the light fighter force

    34+16 Mig-29 SMT

    30 Mig-35

    (it is needed at least an additional 100 Mig-35 order)


    RuNavy

    12 Su-30SM

    24 Mig-29K  (i hope they will order some more)

    12 (?) Su-33 (with an upgrade to carry Kh-25MP and Kh-31A/P)


    Things look great, i hope they will keep up the pace.

    In this way RuAF becomes and extremely powerful multirole air force. Lets hope the weapons procurement for this aircraft are just as well.

    I dont know how many legacy frames they are going to keep in service after 2020


    Last edited by Manov on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:43 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:50 pm

    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.

    I think Russia made only one Su-27UBM prototype, but not modernize any as UBs have too much flying hours and are worn out. It have not to be mixed with Belarus Su-27UBM and Kazakhstan's Su-27UBM1 modernized in Belarus.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:56 pm

    Manov wrote:so we have more or less 90 Su-27SM and SM3, a 60 Su-30SM order, a 48 and a possible  similar order of Su-35 (96) and 16 (or 24? idk) Su-30M2.


    That gives us more or less 262 Modern Flankers (replacing all legacy flankers) It is indeed a great number in the context of the Armed forces modernization

    Eventually Pak Fa will come.

    110 Mig-31BM is also great too

    Around 120 Su-25sm to 2020 (sm3 standard)  its also excellent

    the contract for 124 Su-34 also replaces Su-24m and mr

    60 Gefest Su-24m2

    The weak part is the light fighter force

    34+16 Mig-29 SMT

    30 Mig-35

    (it is needed at least an additional 100 Mig-35 order)


    RuNavy

    12 Su-30SM

    24 Mig-29K  (i hope they will order some more)

    12 (?) Su-33 (with an upgrade to carry Kh-25MP and Kh-31A/P)


    Things look great, i hope they will keep up the pace.

    In this way RuAF becomes and extremely powerful multirole air force. Lets hope the weapons procurement for this aircraft are just as well.

    I dont know how many legacy frames they are going to keep in service after 2020


    Read 16 Su-33 upgrading plus the Naval Aviation will also receive 30-50 Su-30SM's of which 12 have already been ordered.

    Total ordered Su-30M2 is 20.

    The last production version of the Mig-29 all upgraded apparently to Mig-29S (~60) plus a few Mig-29UB's are being upgraded to Mig-29UBM.

    There were 60 Su-25SM upgrades followed by 80 Su-25SM2 and SM3 upgrades in progress. There were at least 2 Su-25UB's upgraded to Su-25UBM.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:00 pm

    medo wrote:
    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.

    I think Russia made only one Su-27UBM prototype, but not modernize any as UBs have too much flying hours and are worn out. It have not to be mixed with Belarus Su-27UBM and Kazakhstan's Su-27UBM1 modernized in Belarus.

    I have heard of two UBM's but believe that the intent of the Su-30M2 is be a training aircraft for both the Su-27SM2/SM3 and the Su-35S.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:55 pm

    Su-33 Northern Fleet Navy Flankers Enter Into Kola Arctic Service

    The fleet of aircraft entered into service in defense of the air borders of the Kola area of the Arctic region following a ceremony on August 1; the aircraft is a naval fighter jet based on the Su-27.

    A fleet of Su-33 navy flankers have entered service in the Kola zone of the Russian Arctic, the Northern Fleet of the Russian navy announced on Monday.

    "Pilots of the shipborne fighter aviation regiment of the Northern Fleet have begun service guarding the air borders of the Kola Arctic region using the deck-based Su-33 fighter jet – the naval equivalent of the multi-role Su-27 fighter jet," stated a spokesman for the Northern Fleet on Monday.

    "The aircraft were introduced into service in a ceremony held on August 1."

    According to the statement, the navy flankers had been employed in defense of Northern Fleet warship units on long campaigns. From now on, in between campaigns, the Su-33 aircraft will be employed in the air defense of the Kola area of the Russian Arctic.

    The Su-33 is a single-seat ship-based fighter, designed to defend naval ships from aerial threats; the aircraft were brought into service on board the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov.

    The aircraft are manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and first entered into official service in 1998.

    A naval derivative of the land-based Su-27 fighter jet, it has a reinforced undercarriage and folding wings for landing on navy aircraft carriers, and is equipped with probe-and-drogue refueling capabilities.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150803/1025335094.html#ixzz3hkgLVGxw


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:52 am

    SO I'm trying to find out how many Su-27 were operational with PVO and VVA back in 1990

    I do have only one source yefim Gordon who states that 350 or so were operational in 1990

    another one I found was
    Deliveries of the Su-27 fighters to the Soviet Air Force and Air Defence Forces started in 1985. Most of the series produced aircraft were T-10S design, hence the designation of Su-27S. Since 1989 all new manufactured aircraft had their air-to-ground weapons capability removed, carrying the factory designation T-10P, thus making the "semi-official" designation Su-27P.
    The first batch of 20 Su-27s were handed over from 22 June 1985 to the ADF (PVO) fighter regiment based at Dzemgi AB in the Far East. From 1986 the re-equipment of fighter units was accelerated. By 1990, the European part of the Soviet Union had received 367 Su-27 fighters (138 for the Air Force and 229 for the ADF fighter regiments). 67 of the Soviet Air Force aircraft were stationed in Poland. It was then estimated by Western experts that the total number of Su-27s in existence was 500.
    •Fomin, Andrei (2000). Su-27 Flanker Story, RA Intervestnik, Moscow, Russia
    http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-27/su-27_operators.htm#sources

    How reliable is this ? Does anyone have more information on this ?
    Thanks

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:26 am

    nastle77 wrote:SO I'm trying to find out how many Su-27 were operational with PVO and VVA back in 1990

    I do have only one source yefim Gordon who states that 350 or so were operational in 1990

    another one I found was
    Deliveries of the Su-27 fighters to the Soviet Air Force and Air Defence Forces started in 1985. Most of the series produced aircraft were T-10S design, hence the designation of Su-27S. Since 1989 all new manufactured aircraft had their air-to-ground weapons capability removed, carrying the factory designation T-10P, thus making the "semi-official" designation Su-27P.
    The first batch of 20 Su-27s were handed over from 22 June 1985 to the ADF (PVO) fighter regiment based at Dzemgi AB in the Far East. From 1986 the re-equipment of fighter units was accelerated. By 1990, the European part of the Soviet Union had received 367 Su-27 fighters (138 for the Air Force and 229 for the ADF fighter regiments). 67 of the Soviet Air Force aircraft were stationed in Poland. It was then estimated by Western experts that the total number of Su-27s in existence was 500.
    •Fomin, Andrei (2000). Su-27 Flanker Story, RA Intervestnik, Moscow, Russia
    http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-27/su-27_operators.htm#sources

    How reliable is this ? Does anyone have more information on this ?
    Thanks

    Don't believe you will get exact figures but the general consensus is that there was ~500 at the break up of the USSR and ~350-400 stayed in the Russian Air Force. Basically the information those sources are giving you.

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