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    Su-27: News

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    mack8
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Sat May 16, 2015 8:03 pm

    According to an insider quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html
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    Cyberspec
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat May 16, 2015 9:28 pm

    mack8 wrote:According to an insider  quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ  between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html

    Well that's a change from previous statements that there won't be any more SM upgrades once all the contracts were fullfiled....assuming this report is confirmed.

    BTW, apparently red 64 (below) from the BMPD link is a recent one upgraded to SM3....believed to have undergone modernisation with another Su-27 sometime between 2012-2014, which apparently implies it was separate from the 2011 contract....so who knows, perhaps they don't publicly announce all the numbers undergoing upgrades

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Sun May 17, 2015 9:04 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    mack8 wrote:According to an insider  quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ  between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html

    Well that's a change from previous statements that there won't be any more SM upgrades once all the contracts were fullfiled....assuming this report is confirmed.

    BTW, apparently red 64 (below) from the BMPD link is a recent one upgraded to SM3....believed to have undergone modernisation with another Su-27 sometime between 2012-2014, which apparently implies it was separate from the 2011 contract....so who knows, perhaps they don't publicly announce all the numbers undergoing upgrades


    According to this previous article there are presently 62 including the 12 built a couple of years ago.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1251939.html
    This new order would make it a total of 98 by 2020.
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    mack8
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Sun May 17, 2015 10:26 am

    Well that's a change from previous statements that there won't be any more SM upgrades once all the contracts were fullfiled....assuming this report is confirmed.

    BTW, apparently red 64 (below) from the BMPD link is a recent one upgraded to SM3....believed to have undergone modernisation with another Su-27 sometime between 2012-2014, which apparently implies it was separate from the 2011 contract....so who knows, perhaps they don't publicly announce all the numbers undergoing upgrades


    Yes, borts 63 and 64 are upgraded to SM3 standard from old Su-27P or S airframes, have been delivered last year.
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    medo
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Sun May 17, 2015 11:52 am

    I find this information for 36 Su-27SM quite interesting. It seems Russian MoD made some contracts with KnAAPO quietly and come publicly known later. Similar was for 16 Su-30M2. Could be, that MoD already made contracts for new batch of Su-35 fighters, but could come to public later, most probably at the time of MAKS, which I think will be this year. I doubt KnAAPO will stop Su-35 production. Also, I think with more Su-27SM in plan, they could also order more Su-30M2 fighters.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:54 pm

    I never could find information on what exactly is upgraded in Su-27SM. I know it has glass cockpit and the radar is modernized (N001V), but did it receive any more upgrades? For example, FBW is still the old SDU-10? Or did it receive the more modern SDU-10M? And what about engines?
    Regarding Su-27SM3, the easiest (if not only) way to distinguish from Su-27SM is the extra dorsal antenna. Does anyone know what is this antenna for?
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Berkut on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:54 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:And what about engines?

    Su-27SM under the second contract (referred to as SM(2)) got Al-31FM1's. SM3's uses vanilla Al-31F's as far as i know.

    Svyatoslavich wrote:Regarding Su-27SM3, the easiest (if not only) way to distinguish from Su-27SM is the extra dorsal antenna. Does anyone know what is this antenna for?

    Compare to Su-35S. Wink Same antenna, think i had the exact system pinned down but cant remember now.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:07 pm

    As far as I know, all Su-27SM have Al-31FM1 engines, same as Su-30M2.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Berkut on Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:09 pm

    medo wrote:As far as I know, all Su-27SM have Al-31FM1 engines, same as Su-30M2.
    No.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:15 pm

    So only new build Su-27SM have Al-31FM1 engines? Anyway, I remember, that I read in the time of Su-27SM prototype, that it will have more powerful engines than standard Su-27.
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    Why the SU-27 is largely superior to the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18

    Post  nemrod on Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:40 pm



    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  max steel on Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:44 pm

    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:23 pm

    max steel wrote:
    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Considering the article was written in 1992, it makes sense that the author believed that the F-22 would have replaced all legacy fighters by now, and in his opinion make the SU-27 a non-threat, sadly for him that didn't happen. Razz
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:09 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Considering the article was written in 1992, it makes sense that the author believed that the F-22 would have replaced all legacy fighters by now, and in his opinion make the SU-27 a non-threat, sadly for him that didn't happen. Razz

    I think the author meant that since the Cold War is over, America is unlikely to face Flankers as a major threat again.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:39 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    max steel wrote:
    nemrod wrote:

    Even the F-22 now is not able to confront the SU-27. From the book Su-27 Flanker: Sukhoi Superfighter (Osprey Colour Series), 1992.

    http://www.amazon.com/Su-27-Flanker-Sukhoi-Superfighter-Osprey/dp/1855321521/ref=pd_sxp_redirect
    Soviet Union was ahead in fighters, and aircraft.

    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Considering the article was written in 1992, it makes sense that the author believed that the F-22 would have replaced all legacy fighters by now, and in his opinion make the SU-27 a non-threat, sadly for him that didn't happen. Razz

    I think the author meant that since the Cold War is over, America is unlikely to face Flankers as a major threat again.
    Don't think so, the opening statements and the phrase "just as well" at the end, seem to be pointing out that both F-22 deployment and the new relations as factors that would render the Flanker a non-threat.Neutral
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Giulio on Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:42 am

    Hello! I apologize, I did not follow the discussion, but I think that the Su-27 is a generation before the F-22, but the Sukhoi fighter has set the standards for the next fighter generation ...

    Please, has someone some pictures about Su-27 with external fuel tanks? I tried but I have not found a single one. I think that the Su-27 has three external stations able to carry drop tanks (like the MTB-200 ?)Thanks.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:48 am

    Giulio wrote:
    Please, has someone some pictures about Su-27 with external fuel tanks? I tried but I have not found a single one. I think that the Su-27 has three external stations able to carry drop tanks (like the MTB-200 ?)Thanks.


    So do i.

    Well Su-27S family was actually not designed to carry external tank. Until Su-27SMK Upgrade appeared in 1990's
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:03 am

    Most early Su-27s are not fitted for external fuel tanks... the vast majority of the aircraft in Russian service don't operate with all of their internal fuel tanks with fuel in them... they normally operate less than one third full of fuel during normal operations.


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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:17 am

    does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:20 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    i think about 100 have been upgraded to Su-27SM level


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:42 am

    im curious on what airfoil used for Su-27 ? Anyone can give me a clue on it ?
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Berkut on Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:28 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:40 pm

    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:41 pm

    There was 53 Su-27SM. I think the first 5 were in Lipetsk training facility and than 48 serve in two Far East regiments. All the rest are Su-27SM3, 12 new build and now 36 are ordered for modernization. I don't know, how much it is cheaper, but Su-30M2 (equal to Su-27SM3) are new build multirole fighters, which could serve for another 30 to 40 years and their structure is already constructed for more powerful AL-31FM1 engines, while old Su-27 need reinforcements in their structures to use those more powerful engines. Su-30M2 work together with Su-27SM(3) and ideally in my opinion would be a three squadron regiment with two Su-27SM squadrons and one Su-30M2 squadron, which will operate as trainer, command post and dedicated ground attack fighter. With creating of four Su-27SM regiments, RuAF will need four Su-30M2 squadrons, what is around 50 planes, so they will have to order 30 more. I think around 2020 RuAF will receive around 200 Su-30SM and Su-35, which will replace the rest of old Su-27 fighters.
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:43 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.

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