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    Su-27: News

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    Werewolf
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:46 pm

    Dorfmeister wrote:
    Alex555 wrote:http://rt.com/news/248837-us-reconnaissance-aircraft-intercepted/

    "One side of the story" doesn't mean something from a russian source.

    Everybody is screaming about "propaganda": truth must lie between both version of the story. Where were both planes precisely? Which space were they in? Transponder on both planes on/off? Who was the "dirty" player (coming too close or being to dangerous)? Us? Russians? Etc...

    So, to sum up: factual and proved elements (from both side, so we can have an educated guess) and no smokey theory (no matter which side they came from).

    Don't wanna be the troll here (I have no interest in the question of who's the best in the universe, sorry) but this story is pathetic and the loss of life which could have happened here must be well documented so such situations cannot happen again.

    (To mods: feel free to cut and move to other topic if more appropriate. All my apologies for being off topic)  Wink  


    Sure so this is between US and Russia, but don't dare to post the russian source, maybe post a British or Belgian source, because those are such reliable sources and are absolutley not biased when it comes to russia or US.

    TR1
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:52 am

    franco wrote:Does anyone have any idea of how many Su-27S were upgraded to SM2 or UBM status?

    UBM was not serially produced AFAIK.

    Su-27SM had two polks + the 5 birds @ Lipetsk.
    Su-27SM3 was 12 new builds.

    Also recently we saw a few SM3s the status of which are unclear (new build, modernization) but I don't think the program is really continuing.

    TR1
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:53 am

    Dorfmeister wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Anyway... They continue to lie and distort the truth I just don't take their word for anything any more.

    No wish to enter a debate here, but we only get one side of the story... It might be interesting to hear the "other side" to have a better picture, no?

    Just my two cent Wink

    On this forum shilling the Russian line = looking at things from both perspectives.

    russia russia russia russia russia russia russia russia russia

    TR1
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:54 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Pentagon to protest “unsafe and unprofessional” intercept by Russian Su-27

    (archival photo-not the same incident)



    "On the morning of April 7, a US RC-135U, making regular flight in international airspace, was intercepted by the Russian Su-27 in a dangerous (distance - 6m) And unprofessional manner", - told RIA Novosti representative of the US defense department. According to him, "the US is preparing to raise the issue through appropriate diplomatic official channels."

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20150411/1057914677.html#ixzz3WxkI91kE

    Russian diplomatic response "Go and screw yourselves Yankee bastards...  next time we be shooting you down...yes?"

    And the next time a Russian An-24 crosses the Finnish or (one of the) Baltic state borders, they can also shoot it down.

    I mean, makes sense right?


    sepheronx
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:06 am

    Russia’s Su -27 fighter jet forced US spy plane to alter course - Defence Ministry

    Big_Gazza
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:29 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Pentagon to protest “unsafe and unprofessional” intercept by Russian Su-27

    (archival photo-not the same incident)



    "On the morning of April 7, a US RC-135U, making regular flight in international airspace, was intercepted by the Russian Su-27 in a dangerous (distance - 6m) And unprofessional manner", - told RIA Novosti representative of the US defense department. According to him, "the US is preparing to raise the issue through appropriate diplomatic official channels."

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20150411/1057914677.html#ixzz3WxkI91kE

    Russian diplomatic response "Go and screw yourselves Yankee bastards...  next time we be shooting you down...yes?"

    And the next time a Russian An-24 crosses the Finnish or (one of the) Baltic state borders, they can also shoot it down.

    I mean, makes sense right?


    Its called humour. They still have that in Freedomistan don't they?

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:28 am

    Sounds like a storm in a tea cup....this sort of thing is once again becoming a regular occurence.

    If they want to play the safety card they should turn on their transponder and identify themselves instead of trying to sneak up

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:18 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Pentagon to protest “unsafe and unprofessional” intercept by Russian Su-27

    (archival photo-not the same incident)



    "On the morning of April 7, a US RC-135U, making regular flight in international airspace, was intercepted by the Russian Su-27 in a dangerous (distance - 6m) And unprofessional manner", - told RIA Novosti representative of the US defense department. According to him, "the US is preparing to raise the issue through appropriate diplomatic official channels."

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/world/20150411/1057914677.html#ixzz3WxkI91kE

    Russian diplomatic response "Go and screw yourselves Yankee bastards...  next time we be shooting you down...yes?"

    And the next time a Russian An-24 crosses the Finnish or (one of the) Baltic state borders, they can also shoot it down.

    I mean, makes sense right?


    Its called humour.  They still have that in Freedomistan don't they?
    Humor is supposed to be funny, or so I thought.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:31 pm

    The US military has a long history of trying to get air defences of foreign countries to give away secrets like communications frequencies, and scramble codes, and indeed radar positions and frequencies.

    First they can get such information by flying in near international air space, but soon the other side gets cagey and the US needs to start changing tactics like flying directly towards enemy air space with transponders turned off to provoke a reaction... eventually they enter enemy airspace briefly to get signals intel... which often ended in the deaths of US aircrew when commands to land are ignored...

    The US has never been above sacrificing a few air men for the ability to kill billions efficiently... Sad

    TR-1 wrote:
    And the next time a Russian An-24 crosses the Finnish or (one of the) Baltic state borders, they can also shoot it down.

    I mean, makes sense right?

    Would only make sense it if was the same... in other words rather than being a mistake, it was an intentional provocation by an Elint aircraft... by all means force it to land and make an international incident out of it.


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Alex555 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:34 pm

    Off Topic
    Dorfmeister wrote:"One side of the story" doesn't mean something from a russian source.
    We have a statement of
    representative of the US defense department
    In RT there was a quotation of spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry
    Like Werewolf said this is between US and Russia, so i think this is another side of the story. Wink

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:40 pm

    Alex555 wrote:Off Topic
    Dorfmeister wrote:"One side of the story" doesn't mean something from a russian source.
    We have a statement of
    representative of the US defense department
    In RT there was a quotation of spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry
    Like Werewolf said this is between US and Russia, so i think this is another side of the story. Wink  

    Some people are so indoctrinated that everything from russia must be propaganda, like this dorftrottel.

    max steel
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  max steel on Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:02 pm

    “Russian air defense radars spotted an unidentified air target over the Baltic Sea making steady progress toward the national border.”

    The Sukhoi Su-27 dispatched to intercept the target identified it as a US Air Force reconnaissance aircraft RC-135U and reported the aircraft’s type and tail number to headquarters. After the Su-27 made several fly-bys around the spy plane, the RC-135U altered course and moved away from Russian border.  "No emergency situation was reported during the fly-by of the American reconnaissance aircraft.”

    Also according to the Russian, "the aircraft had its transponder turned off." However, according to Flightradar24 the transponder was on.


    Does US spy aircraft already have a laser missile defense against A2A missiles fitted to them that SU-27 going to find their cockpit fried by a laser pod in self defense . Russian A2A cant take down a US recon plane because of laser pod ?

    mack8
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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Wed May 13, 2015 4:22 pm

    Upgraded Su-27P and Su-34 delivered to units in Crimea and Rostov-on-Don.
    http://www.rg.ru/2015/05/12/reg-ufo/istrebitel-anons.html
    Any images of those upgraded Su-27P, someone said they are upgraded to SM3 standard so that would make them what, Su-27PM3? (some months ago there was info about 2 or even 4 -can't recall exactly-  Su-27Ps being sent at KnAAZ for upgrade, so these may be the ones)

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Wed May 13, 2015 6:31 pm

    Apparently these are the upgraded ones, 07 and 30 - but they don't seem to have the L-150 so what upgrade standard they are it's not clear. Also, new to me is Su-30M2 bort 45.



    http://russianplanes.net/city/Novosibirsk_-_Tolmachyovo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Wed May 13, 2015 8:48 pm

    They are not modernized to SM standard. Most probably capital repairs with some minor upgrades.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 14, 2015 12:50 pm

    Does US spy aircraft already have a laser missile defense against A2A missiles fitted to them that SU-27 going to find their cockpit fried by a laser pod in self defense . Russian A2A cant take down a US recon plane because of laser pod ?

    DIRCMs are useful against optically guided missiles like IR guided weapons like the R-73 and R-27T and R-27ET but useless against SARH and ARH missiles like R-27R, R-27ER and R-77 respectively.

    The Su-35 will have DIRCMS too.


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Thu May 14, 2015 9:56 pm

    Nice pics of the same birds:





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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 15, 2015 11:15 am

    What a beautiful aircraft... Very Happy


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Sun May 17, 2015 2:03 am

    According to an insider quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 17, 2015 3:28 am

    mack8 wrote:According to an insider  quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ  between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html

    Well that's a change from previous statements that there won't be any more SM upgrades once all the contracts were fullfiled....assuming this report is confirmed.

    BTW, apparently red 64 (below) from the BMPD link is a recent one upgraded to SM3....believed to have undergone modernisation with another Su-27 sometime between 2012-2014, which apparently implies it was separate from the 2011 contract....so who knows, perhaps they don't publicly announce all the numbers undergoing upgrades


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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Sun May 17, 2015 3:04 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    mack8 wrote:According to an insider  quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ  between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html

    Well that's a change from previous statements that there won't be any more SM upgrades once all the contracts were fullfiled....assuming this report is confirmed.

    BTW, apparently red 64 (below) from the BMPD link is a recent one upgraded to SM3....believed to have undergone modernisation with another Su-27 sometime between 2012-2014, which apparently implies it was separate from the 2011 contract....so who knows, perhaps they don't publicly announce all the numbers undergoing upgrades


    According to this previous article there are presently 62 including the 12 built a couple of years ago.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1251939.html
    This new order would make it a total of 98 by 2020.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Sun May 17, 2015 4:26 pm

    Well that's a change from previous statements that there won't be any more SM upgrades once all the contracts were fullfiled....assuming this report is confirmed.

    BTW, apparently red 64 (below) from the BMPD link is a recent one upgraded to SM3....believed to have undergone modernisation with another Su-27 sometime between 2012-2014, which apparently implies it was separate from the 2011 contract....so who knows, perhaps they don't publicly announce all the numbers undergoing upgrades


    Yes, borts 63 and 64 are upgraded to SM3 standard from old Su-27P or S airframes, have been delivered last year.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Sun May 17, 2015 5:52 pm

    I find this information for 36 Su-27SM quite interesting. It seems Russian MoD made some contracts with KnAAPO quietly and come publicly known later. Similar was for 16 Su-30M2. Could be, that MoD already made contracts for new batch of Su-35 fighters, but could come to public later, most probably at the time of MAKS, which I think will be this year. I doubt KnAAPO will stop Su-35 production. Also, I think with more Su-27SM in plan, they could also order more Su-30M2 fighters.

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:54 am

    I never could find information on what exactly is upgraded in Su-27SM. I know it has glass cockpit and the radar is modernized (N001V), but did it receive any more upgrades? For example, FBW is still the old SDU-10? Or did it receive the more modern SDU-10M? And what about engines?
    Regarding Su-27SM3, the easiest (if not only) way to distinguish from Su-27SM is the extra dorsal antenna. Does anyone know what is this antenna for?

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Berkut on Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:54 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:And what about engines?

    Su-27SM under the second contract (referred to as SM(2)) got Al-31FM1's. SM3's uses vanilla Al-31F's as far as i know.

    Svyatoslavich wrote:Regarding Su-27SM3, the easiest (if not only) way to distinguish from Su-27SM is the extra dorsal antenna. Does anyone know what is this antenna for?

    Compare to Su-35S. Wink Same antenna, think i had the exact system pinned down but cant remember now.

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