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    Su-27: News

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:35 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:There are a lot of Su-27's in reserve and what not in Russia.  Upgrading them all with latest electronics and capabilities to be able to defeat modern American aircraft is ideal and probably very cheap to do.

    What's good about them is that many are mid-80s up to early-90s builds. They flew very little in the 90s and 00s. So their air-frames have a two decade breathing room compared to, say.. F-15E in USAF. Russia should use every single one of them as they are still top of the line jets.

    It's a pity Ukraine ended up with quite a lot of them after USSR collapsed.

    Exactly.  Upgrading them would prove to be much useful and cheap.  Which means a lot of money saved can then be poured into building newer jets like Su-57.

    As for Ukraine, they left them to be dilapidated and so many of them are barely flyable and capable.

    Since Russia undertook all the USSR debt and responsibilities, they should have withdrawn and kept all top notch equipment. Su-27, MiG-29, Su-25, Mi-24P are among some good examples. Third world republics like Uzbekistan got to have Flankers for free. Kazakhstan and even Belarus (that sold frickin Flankers to USA in the 90s).

    Anyhow, Russia's policy on Flanker consolidation is 100% right on the money.
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:47 pm

    medo wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:Some months ago, there was a news talking about upgrading Su-27s to Su-27SM3 (that have been newly built sofar) instead of Su-27SM. Do you have any update on that?

    Contract to modernize 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard was signed and the first group of Su-27 jets is now in KNAAPO, where they are going through modernization. Unfortunately there is no info, when they will be finished and delivered back to RuAF.


    Planned for delivery of first 4 this year.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:53 am

    franco wrote:
    medo wrote:
    kopyo-21 wrote:Some months ago, there was a news talking about upgrading Su-27s to Su-27SM3 (that have been newly built sofar) instead of Su-27SM. Do you have any update on that?

    Contract to modernize 36 Su-27 to Su-27SM3 standard was signed and the first group of Su-27 jets is now in KNAAPO, where they are going through modernization. Unfortunately there is no info, when they will be finished and delivered back to RuAF.


    Planned for delivery of first 4 this year.


    PLease read again the bmpd article about the Su-27SM(3) supposed contract:

    mack8 wrote:According to an insider  quoted by bmpd, there is a contract for 36 Su-27S/P to be upgraded to SM3 standard by KnAAZ  between 2016-2020!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1304532.html

    A new contract for the modernization of the Su-27?
    Bmpd May 17th 2015
    The well-known participant of the web forum forums.airforce.ru under the nickname "Azochen Wei" informs about the information about the new agreement on modernization for the Ministry of Defense of Russia of 36 fighters of 36 Su-27S (P) in the variant Su-27SM (3) in the period 2016-2020 . Works will be carried out by the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant named after Yu.A. Gagarin (a branch of OAO Sukhoi Company):



    It is not a affirmation , It is a question "???"
    There is not any contract for 36 Su-27SM(3)
    "A insider" , "a well known" fórum, etc... this are rumors
    "An insider" does not sign contracts,
    Contracts are signed by the Ministry of Defense and are published in the official government newspaper


    TODAY , It appears that only 4 su-27SM3 have been signed for this year, and is suposed the total will be 10 at least , or 12 as much, if other sqdn. of Su-27SM is necesary in Kaliningrad (as only 10 SM´s available), when Chkalovsk at Kaliningrad Oblast , it is reopened
    Only 10 Su-27P have been reserved for send to KnaAPO for Su-27SM(3) modernization. As I explained before, no more are needed if no more bases are opened
    The information about 36, was in the date when Putin asked Lukasheko for open a regiment at Baranovichi, even a detachment of Su-27P from Besovets was deployed in Belarus.
    However, Belarus rejected the proposition and now wants SU-30SM , for have its own units


    SU-27SM3 simply are not necesary, in fact, with new SU-35 and Su-30SM are outdated
    The 12 SU-27SM(3) were a "emergency purchase" of KnaaPO remnants, because most Su-27 of Krymsk (3 squadrons at that time) was obsolete and unserviceable , and the Su-35 program was delayed
    If SU-35 program had started a just a little earlier , then , today would have a SU-35 squadron at Krymsk , instead the SU-27SM(3) one


    The count is simple. In next 4 years Rusia willl receive at least 40 SU-35 (2017 and 2018 will receive only 10 because China will get other 10)
    By 2020 there will be 6 Su-27/35 regiments or 12 squadrons in the VVS:
    -2 complete regiments (Dzemgi and Vladivostok) : 4 squadrons of Su-35S
    -3 regts mixed SU-35 and Su-27SM (Besovets,Belbek and Khotilovo,that probably will be dislocated, as happens with 22 IAP,and SU-27/35 will retrun to Dorokhovo) Then 3 sq. of Su-35 and 3 sq. of Su-27SM
    -1 regiment at Krymsk with one sqdn. of new SU-27SM(3) and one modernized sqdn. of SU-27SM(3)

    Total: 8 new sq. (7 SU-35 & 1 Su-27SM(3) ) and 4 modernized (1 SU-27SM(3) and 3 SU-27SM)
    The 4 modernized sqdns. and the new sq. of Su-27SM(3) will be replaced for 5 sqdn  of Su-35 in 2021-2025 until reached 12 Su-35 sqdns = 144. Other 20-24 planes for training/display/test , total 165-170
    The 2 SU-27SM(3) sqdns. , both new and modernized could be used then by the navy at Kaliningrad or sent to outstanding bases (Latakia, Kant , etc...)


    This year KnaAPO will hand over 10 SU-35 and 4 Su-27SM(3)  to VVS
    Because of the China hurry , KnaAPO cannot hand over 14 Su-35 to Russian VVS, as the year 2015 ,
    If KnaAPO could hand over 14 Su-35 for Russia and 6 for China , China would get 24 in 4 years, instead three years, and in that case no SU-27SM(3) would be modernized for Russia

    Su-27SM(3) had been necesary 10-15 years ago but today is not necesary , because its skills already has the SU-30SM and/or Su-35, or even better.


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:58 am

    .
    Well there is no shortage of really good off-the-shelf equipment that they could easily install on Su-27 and they have loads of them available so why not?
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:51 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:There are a lot of Su-27's in reserve and what not in Russia.  Upgrading them all with latest electronics and capabilities to be able to defeat modern American aircraft is ideal and probably very cheap to do.

    What's good about them is that many are mid-80s up to early-90s builds. They flew very little in the 90s and 00s. So their air-frames have a two decade breathing room compared to, say.. F-15E in USAF. Russia should use every single one of them as they are still top of the line jets.

    It's a pity Ukraine ended up with quite a lot of them after USSR collapsed.

    How many is "a lot of" ?

    Sorry to say , but most of out of service SU-27S´s was scrapped or are parked waiting for scrapping

    Today , Russia airforce has:
    -60 modernized (12 SU-27SM3 new built & 2 refurbised , and 46 Su-27SM)
    -About 80 not modernized , and this includes about 45-50 Su-27P , 25 SU-27UB and half a dozen Su-27S still in flight)

    -10 Su-27P are waiting for modernization
    -other 10 SU-27P are parked at repair plants
    -One squadron of 14 are "in reserve" at Lipestk together with other squadron of Mig-31 and about 100 Mig-29 (4020 ARB-air reserve base) , as Lipestk already only uses Su-30/35.
    This planes are SU-27SM, SU-27S/P and UB´s including two old Su-30 (SU-27PU) used at Lipestk before

    -In the Airforce bases, like Krymsk, were about 25 SU-27S parked since the base was closed for overhaul in 2011.This airplanes are going to be scrapped and recycled
    You can look in Google  >>   https://www.google.es/maps/@44.959485,38.0010409,191m/data=!3m1!1e3
    -Also can find a lot of planes at Besovets, about 35 SU-27S out of order and waiting the same destination
    -Also in ARZ´s as Pushkin , Kubinka or Krasnodar you can find several derrelictic planes, stripped and used their parts as spares

    All the other SU-27S were scrapped and some has been used as "monuments" in some cities throughout Russia

    When Su-35 replace SU-27S/P , about 60 Su-27P could remain "in reserve" if are not scrapped, and after 2025 other 45 SU-27SM



    PapaDragon wrote:.
    Well there is no shortage of really good off-the-shelf equipment that they could easily install on Su-27 and they have loads of them available so why not?


    Simply not
    Modernize a Su-27 in KnaAPO is time and resources lost for Su-35 and Su-57 assembly lines. The Su-30M2/MK2 production line already was closed last year

    The airforce reform is clear, one base- one regiment of two squadrons , this means, VKS will have 6 complete regiments in 2025 just receiving one squadron of Su-35 by year
    For more planes , you need open more bases for more regiments and train new pilots , and this takes time

    Su-35 will be accompanied later as superiority fighter by Su-57, and for this it is necessary to rebuilt several bases without use today, about one base every two years, to receive the new Su-57 regiments in the period 2020-2030 and beyond , depending if VKS gets 4 , 5  or 6 SU-57 regiments
    SU-27SM / SM3 only serves to accompany the Su-35 from here to 2025, it is an amortized airplane
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:57 pm

    You mean 6 regiments of Su-57s by 2030?

    Hmmm... so there should be more than 600 new 'Flankers' by the end of 2025? I mean the combined total of Su-30SMs, Su-34s, Su-35s and Su-57s? 200-300 Su-30SMs, 200 Su-34s and more than 200 Su-35s and Su-57s (combined).
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:18 pm

    Kimppis wrote:You mean 6 regiments of Su-57s by 2030?

    Hmmm... so there should be more than 600 new 'Flankers' by the end of 2025? I mean the combined total of Su-30SMs, Su-34s, Su-35s and Su-57s? 200-300 Su-30SMs, 200 Su-34s and more than 200 Su-35s and Su-57s (combined).

    I said exactly : to receive the new Su-57 regiments in the period 2020-2030 and beyond , depending if VKS gets 4 , 5  or 6 SU-57 regiments
    And Su-57 is not a "Flanker"

    It depends of the rate of Su-57  planes handed over.
    You need at least one dozen for training/test in Astrakhan & Lipestk (excluding prototypes)
    This dozen is supossed to be deployed in 2019 and 2020
    Then , if KnaAPO can hand over 10 planes per year , in 2030 it will have 4 regiments
    If KnaAPO can produce 12 planes per year , in 2030 you will have 5 SU-57 regiments (and time enough for rebuilt 5 airbases and train the pilots)
    The 6th after 2030

    About the Su-35 , this year and the next , VKS will receive only 10 because China gets other 10
    In 2019 - 2020 the production should be 14 Russia and 6 Indonesia , then VKS in 2020 will have 7 squadrons of Su-35 and other 20 planes (Kubinka, Lipestk, Akhtubinsk)
    Later, 2021-2025 , is enough with one squadron of 12 planes per year for get the 12 squadrons in 6 regiments. The other 8 produced each year will be exported
    If VKS wants the 7th regiment in  North ,Central district or Kaliningrad is unkonow today, but is possible after 2025

    The Su-30SM will reach 100 planes this year and 116 planes in 2018 (88 VKS and 28 Navy)
    Navy needs more planes, it was said "about 50" in 2020
    This means navy need 10 in 2019 and 10 in 2020 for get 4 squadrons (48)
    Keep this rate, in 2025 Navy will have about 100 (one regiment each fleet)
    The VKS only need about 8 planes in period 2019-2025 for reach 145 planes , enough for 4 regments , the  "two seaters" of 6 SU-35 regiments and 20 planes more (Kubinka, Lipesk Astrakhan)
    This means 18 SU-30SM per year , similar rate than now. The rest of production of IAPO can be exported

    About the Su-34 , this year will be 107 in VKS and the next 123. A new contract for 3 more regiments of Su-34M  , at rate 12 per year 2019-2024 will send the total to about 195-200 about 2025. NAPO will also export other 6-8 planes per year

    The SU-30M2 will go to training units after Su-35 regiments get their Su-30SM "two seaters"

    This means to receive 50 planes in 2018:
    10 Su-35
    16 Su-30SM
    16 Su-34
    8 Mig-35

    2019 and 2020 58 planes per year:
    6 SU-57
    14 Su-35
    18 SU-30SM
    12 Su-34M
    8 Mig-35

    2021-2025 54 planes per year:
    12 Su-57
    12 Su-35
    18 SU-30SM
    12 Su-34M

    After 2025 :
    12-18 Su-57 per year
    And perhaps other regiment of Su-35
    Replacement for Mig-31BM starts 2030
    Replacement for Su-25SM/SM(3) starts 2030


    Then the total will be in 2025:
    200 Su-34
    240-250 Su-30SM (140-150 VKS & 100 in Navy)
    166 Su-35
    24 SU-27SM(3)
    75 Su-57

    705-720 planes
    630-640 "Flankers"

    In 2030:
    200 SU-34
    240-250 Su-30SM (140-150 VKS & 100 in Navy)
    166-190 SU-35 (6 - 7 regiments)
    135-165 Su-57 (5 regiments if 6th, then after 2030)

    740-805 planes


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:01 pm

    Haha, yeah, Su-57 is only a Flanker if you really "stretch" the definition of the term, hence 'Flankers'. 'New multirole/tactical aircraft' is probably a better term for those planes.

    Then the total will be in 2025:
    200 Su-34
    240-250 Su-30SM (140-150 VKS & 100 in Navy)
    166 Su-35
    24 SU-27SM(3)
    75 Su-57

    So it seems our predictions are very similar, thanks.

    But surely Su-57 will remain in production long after 2030? Maybe they'll develop a new version with a different designation (like Su-35), but still. Atleast until the late 2030s. Of course, that is far in the future at this point.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:19 pm

    Today Russia is not the same as in nineties and early 2000, when they faced acute money shortage. Many Su-27 are in reserve, but could be modernized and reactivated as MiG-31 was with MiG-31BM modernization of more than 100 jets. MiG-31s were in worse condition than any Su-27 as they were practicaly no more in use, because they were too expensive. In both Chechen wars Su-24 and Su-25 were the work horses, so Su-27 airframes don't have so many flying hours and overstressed structure. Spare parts are still in production, same are engines, for foreign and domestic customers.

    With producing larger number of Su-35 and Su-57, RuAF will not need that many Su-27 squadrons, but that doesn't mean they will scrapped them as they did in the nineties, when US give money for scrapping retired jets. They could still overhaul and modernize them and deliver/sell them to allies like Syria or Novorussia. After war multirole Su-27SM jets will be excellent for restoring of Syrian AF and with new engines they will have quite a lot of service life in front of them and they will be fully compatible with RuAF.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:34 pm

    Kimppis wrote:Haha, yeah, Su-57 is only a Flanker if you really "stretch" the definition of the term, hence 'Flankers'. 'New multirole/tactical aircraft' is probably a better term for those planes.

    Then the total will be in 2025:
    200 Su-34
    240-250 Su-30SM (140-150 VKS & 100 in Navy)
    166 Su-35
    24 SU-27SM(3)
    75 Su-57

    So it seems our predictions are very similar, thanks.

    But surely Su-57 will remain in production long after 2030? Maybe they'll develop a new version with a different designation (like Su-35), but still. Atleast until the late 2030s. Of course, that is far in the future at this point.  

    Hello:

    "Flanker" is all the family of Sukhoi based in the prototypes T-10
    All are basicly the same plane, only diference is "one seater" as Su-27 , Su-35 , Su-37  or two "seater" as Su-30 , Su-34

    The Su-57 are based on prototype T-50 , is a totally diferent plane , but yes , its is a Sukhoi

    About the numbers , are consistent with what MoD has done until now
    There are not as many planes as in 2014 or 2015 but it is a sustained effort of more than one decade until 2025

    The Su-57 will start "large-scale" production from 2020. I dont think will produce large numbers , at least while Su-35 are still producing , and only one decade of production is very little
    It will depends of how many planes wants the VKS, I think similar number to that of Su-35 , in that case probably production willl end in 2032 or 2033 for VKS of Russia

    After that will come the fighters of 6th generation


    medo wrote:Today Russia is not the same as in nineties and early 2000, when they faced acute money shortage. Many Su-27 are in reserve, but could be modernized and reactivated as MiG-31 was with MiG-31BM modernization of more than 100 jets. MiG-31s were in worse condition than any Su-27 as they were practicaly no more in use, because they were too expensive. In both Chechen wars Su-24 and Su-25 were the work horses, so Su-27 airframes don't have so many flying hours and overstressed structure. Spare parts are still in production, same are engines, for foreign and domestic customers.

    With producing larger number of Su-35 and Su-57, RuAF will not need that many Su-27 squadrons, but that doesn't mean they will scrapped them as they did in the nineties, when US give money for scrapping retired jets. They could still overhaul and modernize them and deliver/sell them to allies like Syria or Novorussia. After war multirole Su-27SM jets will be excellent for restoring of Syrian AF and with new engines they will have quite a lot of service life in front of them and they will be fully compatible with RuAF.

    Sorry to say not again:

    Read previous post , there are not Su-27 "in reserve" most of retired airplanes habe been scrapped and recycled to recover material like gold, silver and other rare metals of which there are many kilograms in each airplane.
    In 2020 it will only be able to count on some 60 Su-27P , and the production lines are at full capacity, there is no place or money to do anything with them

    Mig-31 was the only plane modernized because there are not any similar now for replace them
    The planes Su-24 and Su-25 are tactical bombers , attack airplanes, the Su-27 is a superiority fighter , has a totally different role
    You can not compare an air force of a medium country that must have all airplanes of one type , and for that reason all  multirole, with the air force of a superpower , and giant country like Russia
    Russia has a very different military doctrine than Italy Francia or Sweden

    SU-27SM was only adding some ground attack capability to the Su-27 and doing it a little "multirole"
    Today that much improved capacity has the Su-30SM, so that more Su-27SM are not necessary
    In addition the airplanes do not sail without pilots , you cannot fly the retired planes
    New pilots are training with new planes

    I agree that they could sell or donate planes to Novorussia or Syria, there are a lot of MiG-29´s just retired, for example 6 go to Servia
    I would sell the "Algerian" Mig-29SMT cheaply to Syria and give some MiG-29´s to Novorussia


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:14 pm

    Do you think Russia will keep overall orders of Su-35 low because of Su-57? I would wager that Su-35 would be more ideal for Russia as it is relatively cheap and very capable, along with being a single seater thus less taxing on number of pilots needed per plane (just 1). I noticed MiG-35 isn't mentioned in your list, neither is MiG-31. Unless you aren't counting interceptors and the pity order.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:32 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Do you think Russia will keep overall orders of Su-35 low because of Su-57? I would wager that Su-35 would be more ideal for Russia as it is relatively cheap and very capable, along with being a single seater thus less taxing on number of pilots needed per plane (just 1). I noticed MiG-35 isn't mentioned in your list, neither is MiG-31. Unless you aren't counting interceptors and the pity order.

    We are counting Sukhois , because this is a Sukhoi topic
    But I have mentioned Mig-35 in the list of planes received each year
    The Mig-31 it is clear that the modernization is near to complete in a couple or 3 years
    MiG-35 only will be purchased in low numbers, 16-18 for Yerevan and 6-8 for Kubinka ( It is logical if you want to exhibit for export)
    It is only a political purchase, necesary to give oxigen to MiG , expecting for export orders

    Orders of Su-35 are not high or low, simply is about one squadron per year , you cannot buy all planes in 5 years, no money enough , no pilots enough , and not necesary
    The planing of each airplane project  , it is a sustained effort of more than two decades including developement phase , about 15 years of production

    What VKS would like as I see:
    Air defence:
    200 Su-57
    200 Su-35
    110 Mig-31BM (+40 Navy)
    Frontal aviation:
    200 Su-30SM (+ 100 Navy)
    200 Su-34
    24 Mig-35 that really dont want (+24 Mig-29K Navy)
    And the SU-25 modernization

    What VKS will have as it seems:
    Air defence:
    135-165 Su-57
    165-190 Su-35
    110 Mig-31BM (+ 40 Navy)
    Frontal aviation:
    150 Su-30SM (+100 Navy)
    200 Su-34
    50 Su.29SMT
    24 Mig-35 (+24 Mig-29K Navy)
    ANd the SU-25 modernization

    If VKS could get away the "Algerian" MiG-29SMT´s by selling them to some small country , then perhaps another Mig-35 regiment would be bought instead them
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:15 am

    .
    The Seven Most Dangerous Su-27s in the World: Kaliningrad's Flankers range across the Baltic


    http://warisboring.com/the-seven-most-dangerous-su-27s-in-the-world-2/
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:23 pm

    Two Su-27SM3 form KnAAPO to West
    With numbers Nº68 and Nº69 , coluld be for Krymsk ,as the numbers of 14 Su-27SM3 bases at Krymask are 51-65 (excluding Nº60 that it is a Su-30M2)
    The plannig for 2017 should be 4 , so the Nº66 and Nº67 could be the next or well were already travel without previous news


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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:42 pm

    Had read a couple of months back that there were two in Kaliningrad but wasn't sure of the source nor can I locate it now.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:36 pm

    franco wrote:Had read a couple of months back that there were two in Kaliningrad but wasn't sure of the source nor can I locate it now.

    The Su-27P of Kaliningrad are operated by Russian Navy
    These Su-27SM3 are of the RuAF (ВВС РОССИЯ)

    Kaliningrad was waiting two Su-27P that have been repaired in Pushkin ARZ Nº20
    Nº97 RF-33752 https://russianplanes.net/images/to211000/210765.jpg
    Nº98 RF-33753 http://forums.airforce.ru/attachments/matchast/79223d1496604977-imgp1881.jpg

    Also received recently one more Su-27UB Nº102 RF-33757 , and past year Su-27P  Nº99

    Now, there are 10 Su-27P (90-99) and 3 Su-27UB (100-102)
    There are more Su-27P in ARZ´s and also the remaining 10 Su-27SM´s of East and the other Su-27P´s of West replaced in last two years by Su-35S and Su-27SM
    Enough to raise again the 689 IAP regiment in Chkalovsk , which is near to reopen:

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4846401
    KALININGRAD, December 27. / TASS /. The An-26 military transport aircraft of the Baltic Fleet made a test landing at the military aerodrome of the Marine Aviation Chkalovsk in the suburbs of Kaliningrad, where work is being completed to modernize the air harbor.

    The AN-26 successfully completed the test landing and take-off from the updated runway of the airfield. In addition, during the flight over it, the work of the latest radio engineering means of the airfield, navigation equipment was checked, "he said.
    In the overflight of the strip and the airfield, the Su-30SM multi-purpose fighters of the Naval Aviation Fleet were also involved.
    Work on the modernization of the Chkalovsk airfield was launched in late 2013. The existing runway cover (runway) and taxiways have been replaced. At the same time, the runway itself is extended by 500 m - up to 3,100 m, which allows to take aircraft of any class.

    Also, new buildings and facilities have been built there to provide flight control, as well as aircraft parking places, modern communication and power lines have been equipped, and a drainage and drainage network has been updated. The airfield of the reconstructed airfield is equipped with modern light marking and radio engineering facilities.
    "The reconstructed Chkalovsk airfield is planned to be put into operation in the first half of 2018"  , the fleet spokesman said.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:42 pm

    So modernizing Su-27 to Su-27SM3 is not just urban legend. So after all RuAF will have around 100 multirole Su-27SM/SM3 and 20 Su-30M2, enough to equipp 5 regiments with 24 planes or 4 regiments and the rest to have in reserve.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:22 pm

    medo wrote:So modernizing Su-27 to Su-27SM3 is not just urban legend. So after all RuAF will have around 100 multirole Su-27SM/SM3 and 20 Su-30M2, enough to equipp 5 regiments with 24 planes or 4 regiments and the rest to have in reserve.

    Of course not
    The supposed contract for 36 SM3 was only a rumor of a russian fórum copied by a russian blog and later rectified.
    The contarct for 36 was never signed.
    This happened in late 2014 or 2015 when Putin wanted open a base in Belarus with two squadrons of Su-27SM3 , that now is absolutely discarded as Belarus will purchase Su-30SM
    It seems only other 10 will be modernized for complete the regiment of Krymsk , that only had 14 Su-27SM3 since 2014 that was reopened and received two modernized Su-27SM3 (Nº63 and Nº64)
    It is not clear how many have been contracted, in a russian fórum said 4 contracted with KnAAPO for 2017 , and in 2018 or also 19 should be other 6.

    The number of Su-27SM in service are 36 in tree squadrons. the other 10 does not fly in 2017 and should be repaired and send to West, probably for compkete the regiment of Belbek or pherhaps for Kaliningrad (Navy) , where is expected to reopen Chkalovks airport in 2018 and probaby rearmed the 689 IAP regiment.

    The question is that in 2020 all the Su-27S/P should be retired of VVS.
    With 98 Su-35S , and 70 Su-27SM/SM3 is enough for 6 regiments of Flankers, and this means complete Krymsk , Vladivostok and open other regiment with the surplus of Khotilovo and Besovets, and of course also the Navy regiment of Kaliningrad.
    An this is only in 2020, by 2025 the Su-27SM also will be retired and repplaced by more Su-35S ,because Su-27SM were modernized in 2004-2009



    By the way neither Su-27S/P/SM/SM3 nor Su-35 are "multirole"
    "Multirole" does not mean anything.
    To say that the role of a plane is "multirole" is a tautology.
    That's another nonsense from the Western press.
    The industry offers a plane with different capacities that each customer can use or not (upon payment)

    Su-27 was designed and created as an interceptor for the Sily PVO (Air Defense of the USSR and also of Russia until 1998).
    The little hardware for ground attack was removed in the Su-27P version to elude the limitations of the FACE treaty, which does not mean that the other versions , previous and subsequent , do not have their interceptor capacity intact or even improved as the case of Su-35S
    Su-35S is the Su-27 of XXI century that replaces Su-27 1:1 in all aspects.
    Su-27/35 is faster and better than other airplanes of the russian inventory, for that plays the role of Air Defence in the polulated áreas.
    In Siberia and the North the airplane is the MiG-31
    Does not understan this is does not understand the russian air force that  is very diferent to the western standard.

    In modern western terminology Su-27/35 this is "air superiority fighter".
    In Russian AF is the same that in soviet times given that neither the size of the country nor the defense military doctrine of this have changed.

    The role of Su-27/35 in the soviet/russian military doctrine is Air Defence
    Nowadays all the planes have a certain capacity for several tasks, (actually with the standard installation you just have to load the necesary software, and little more) but that does not mean that the customer are going to use them or pays the full package ,
    However Russia has airplanes enough for not to use Su-35 for sink the USA carriers despite it is "capable". They have Tu-22 , Su-24M and now Su-30SM for that role.

    ROLE means that mission plays a plane in a certain air force.
    Venezuela has Su-30 so this airplane need to play the role or Air Defence in that contry. This does not mean Su-30 is a Air Defence fighter despite in small air forces they use it as that

    The Sukhoi team is:

    Su-35 Fighter (Air Defence)
    Su-30SM Strike-Fighter or FGA (figther-ground attack) , fighter of the Frontal Aviation
    Su-34 Fighter-Bomber (Su-34= Su-27IB Истребитель-бомбардировщик), cataloged as a bomber (tactical) in the Russian air force

    The role of Su-30M2 in russian air force is COMBAT TRAINING. It is not even clear that it was acquired with the entire package
    ANd this is a bad translation of "UB" as "two seater"
    UB=УБ
    У=учение=teaching  Б=боевой = of combat/of battle
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 am

    Su-27S/P are single role fighters and could do only air defense tasks. Su-27SM/SM3 and Su-35 are multirole jets. Of course, they are air defense fighters first and this is their primary taks. But Su-27S/P could not do anything else. On the other hand, Su-27SM/SM3 and Su-35 could do SEAD/DEAD missions if needed. They could do anti-ship attacks if needed. They could strike ground targets if needed including with long range guided missiles if needed. Su-30M2 and Su-30SM could also work as trainers. This is why they are multirole. They could do other tasks if needed, not only their primary task of air defense. This doesn't make them less air superiority/air defense fighters. Su-30SM in Syria also do the job of flying command post and coordinate the work of whole strike group as well as Su-34 and Su-30SM is also air superiority fighter and their primary mission in Syria was air protection. This doesn't mean, that they could not strike terrorist targets on the ground and to do the work of flying command post.
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:03 pm

    Article from BMPD on the Su-27SM3 upgrades;

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3028364.html

    According to that article there are 16 aircraft already with these 2 additional aircraft being the first of 6 sent for upgrading.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:33 pm

    If I understood it correctly, sounds like the program might have been canceled as they had a preliminary agreement in 2015 to upgrade another 36 aircraft but no additional aircraft are known to have been transfered for upgrade....it's probably more cost effective to just build new Su-35's and Su-30's
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:17 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:If I understood it correctly, sounds like the program might have been canceled as they had a preliminary agreement in 2015 to upgrade another 36 aircraft but no additional aircraft are known to have been transfered for upgrade....it's probably more cost effective to just build new Su-35's and Su-30's

    On the long term it is. They will have more su 35 and 30 in future than 27 so the maintenance and suply of spare parts will be cheaper for 35 and 30 than for su 27. For the short term it is ok to have some su 27 but for the long term they should build more su 30 than upgrade a lot of 27.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:26 am

    franco wrote:Article from BMPD on the Su-27SM3 upgrades;

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3028364.html

    According to that article there are 16 aircraft already with these 2 additional aircraft being the first of 6 sent for upgrading.

    • Two prototypes of Su-27SM(3) were upgraded to KnAAPO (KnAAZ) in 2008-2010 to test the previously modernized Su-27SM fighters (serial numbers 38001 and 38002).

    • In August 2009, during the MAKS-2009 airshow, the Sukhoi Company signed a contract for the supply to the Ministry of Defense of Russia of 12 new Su-27SM(3) fighters built on KnAAZ in 2010-2011 (the aircraft were being built from the reserve to those not delivered in PRC car kit sets of Su-27SK fighters).

    • Then the Russian Air Force made an attempt to implement the modernization program for the Su-27SM variant (3) part of the Su-27 fighter fleet. In August 2012, two Su-27P fighters (serial numbers 36309 and 36411) were commissioned at KnAAZ for experimental upgrading, and the completion of them to the level of Su-27SM(3) was completed by early 2014.


    It was reported that the results of the operation of these "pilot" modernized sides 36309 and 36411 "were generally appreciated positively," and on April 16, 2015, Sukhoi reached a preliminary agreement with the Russian Ministry of Defense on the modernization of 36 Su-27S (P) in the version of Su-27SM (3) in the period 2016-2020. At the same time, the assigned resource (after modernization) of the modernized aircraft was to be 2000 hours, and the calendar resource (from the date of issue) was to be 30 years with a phased extension of up to 40 years.

    Supposedly, the Su-27SM (3) fighters to be upgraded under the contract of 2015 were supposed to be re-equipped for the second squadron of the 3rd mixed aviation regiment (12 aircraft), as well as for the rearmament of the 38th Fighter Aviation regiment of the 27th mixed aviation division of the 4th Air Force and Air Defense Army (24 aircraft).

    As part of the implementation of this agreement, in May 2015 four Su-27S fighters from the same 3rd mixed aviation regiment (serial numbers 34102, 36412, 36413 and 36514) were delivered to KnAAZ for modernization, and two Su-27 (serial numbers 33205 and 33206) for modernization were then transported to KnAAZ from the "settler" of the JSC "20th Aircraft Repair Plant" (St. Petersburg, Pushkin).
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:21 am

    Moscow, January 11th. The Ministry of Defense will revive the 689th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (GVIAP) in the Kaliningrad Region and equip it with modernized Su-27SM fighters (SM3) and the newest Su-35 fighters. This is reported by Izvestiya .

    According to the publication, part is created to protect the Kaliningrad region. Aviation, if necessary, will be able to deliver point strikes against the enemy's water and ground targets. Also, the air regiment will solve the air defense task in the interests of the Baltic Fleet.

    The legendary 689th GIAP was famous during the Great Patriotic War, when it was commanded three times by Hero of the Soviet Union Alexander Pokryshkin. The revived air regiment will be placed in the airport of Chkalovsk in the Kaliningrad region.

    According to the publication, the part will be formed on the basis of the squadron that is part of the 72nd airbase. Initially, the air regiment is armed with modernized Su-27SM fighters (SM3), in the long run it will receive a squadron of the newest super-maneuverable Su-35s.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:51 pm

    So, now it becomes more clear. from initial order for 36 Su-27SM3 only 6 will be modernized. This mean, that there is no need for 20 Su-30M2 trainers for Su-27SM jets. For two Su-27SM regiments they need 8 Su-30M2 (2x4) and the rest 12 Su-30M2 could form combat squadron for regiment in Krymsk, which could have two squadrons. One squadron of 12 new build Su-27SM3 for air defense duties and one squadron of new build Su-30M2 for strike duties. They could equip those Su-30M2 with Hibiny ECM pods and T220 targeting pod and get very potent strike platform against ground and naval targets to operate over Caucasus region and over eastern Black Sea.

    I'm not sure, why would RuAF sent some Su-27SM3 to Kaliningrad, when NAVY already equip their squadron with Su-30SM. I more see a job for those 6 or 8 extra Su-27SM3 in Hmeimim in Syria after war. Planes could be constantly there, only pilots and personal could rotate.

    RuAF still have some number of standard Su-27 and Su-27UB jets, which will slowlly be replaced by newer Su-35. I wonder, if they could overhaul some of them and upgrade with Gefest SVP-24 like they did with Su-33. Russia will sooner or later recognize Novorussia (DNR and LNR) and they will sooner or later create their air force and a squadron or two of upgraded Su-27 and maybe Su-24M2 would be good start for them.

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