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    Su-27: News

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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:43 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:50 pm

    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.

    I think Russia made only one Su-27UBM prototype, but not modernize any as UBs have too much flying hours and are worn out. It have not to be mixed with Belarus Su-27UBM and Kazakhstan's Su-27UBM1 modernized in Belarus.
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:00 pm

    medo wrote:
    franco wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Berkut wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:does anyone know if all Russian Su-27 have now been upgraded to SM level as the upgrade program started back in 2010 and apart from Wiki havent found any real numbers. Or have they halted it in favour of Su-30 and Su-35.

    45-48 under the original Su-27SM contract. 12 more ordered under 2009 contract, Su-27SM3 standard, new frames. 2 more SM3's in 2014, these were standard operational frames upgraded. 36 more SM3's ordered this year, these are also upgrades of existing vanilla S/P frames.


    thanks and thanks to George1 as well, so it looks like they continue to upgrade, despite Su-30 and Su-35 coming into service, i suppose its cheaper to upgrade Su-27 to Sm level than it is to buy new Su-30 as their isnt much in it in differences to either aircraft, and it also makes sense to continue to sell Su-30 to other countries than sell Su-27Sm, i am surprised the Su-34 hasn't had any orders from outside of Russia yet.

    The original order was for 26 Su-27SM which appear to be retiring and replaced by the Su-35S.
    There are today 50 Su-27SM2 upgrades, 12 new built Su-27SM3 plus a few Su-27UB upgraded to Su-27UBM.
    There are plans to upgrade another 36 Su-27P's to Su-27SM2 standard.

    I think Russia made only one Su-27UBM prototype, but not modernize any as UBs have too much flying hours and are worn out. It have not to be mixed with Belarus Su-27UBM and Kazakhstan's Su-27UBM1 modernized in Belarus.

    I have heard of two UBM's but believe that the intent of the Su-30M2 is be a training aircraft for both the Su-27SM2/SM3 and the Su-35S.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:55 pm

    Su-33 Northern Fleet Navy Flankers Enter Into Kola Arctic Service

    The fleet of aircraft entered into service in defense of the air borders of the Kola area of the Arctic region following a ceremony on August 1; the aircraft is a naval fighter jet based on the Su-27.

    A fleet of Su-33 navy flankers have entered service in the Kola zone of the Russian Arctic, the Northern Fleet of the Russian navy announced on Monday.

    "Pilots of the shipborne fighter aviation regiment of the Northern Fleet have begun service guarding the air borders of the Kola Arctic region using the deck-based Su-33 fighter jet – the naval equivalent of the multi-role Su-27 fighter jet," stated a spokesman for the Northern Fleet on Monday.

    "The aircraft were introduced into service in a ceremony held on August 1."

    According to the statement, the navy flankers had been employed in defense of Northern Fleet warship units on long campaigns. From now on, in between campaigns, the Su-33 aircraft will be employed in the air defense of the Kola area of the Russian Arctic.

    The Su-33 is a single-seat ship-based fighter, designed to defend naval ships from aerial threats; the aircraft were brought into service on board the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov.

    The aircraft are manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and first entered into official service in 1998.

    A naval derivative of the land-based Su-27 fighter jet, it has a reinforced undercarriage and folding wings for landing on navy aircraft carriers, and is equipped with probe-and-drogue refueling capabilities.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150803/1025335094.html#ixzz3hkgLVGxw


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    nastle77

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:52 am

    SO I'm trying to find out how many Su-27 were operational with PVO and VVA back in 1990

    I do have only one source yefim Gordon who states that 350 or so were operational in 1990

    another one I found was
    Deliveries of the Su-27 fighters to the Soviet Air Force and Air Defence Forces started in 1985. Most of the series produced aircraft were T-10S design, hence the designation of Su-27S. Since 1989 all new manufactured aircraft had their air-to-ground weapons capability removed, carrying the factory designation T-10P, thus making the "semi-official" designation Su-27P.
    The first batch of 20 Su-27s were handed over from 22 June 1985 to the ADF (PVO) fighter regiment based at Dzemgi AB in the Far East. From 1986 the re-equipment of fighter units was accelerated. By 1990, the European part of the Soviet Union had received 367 Su-27 fighters (138 for the Air Force and 229 for the ADF fighter regiments). 67 of the Soviet Air Force aircraft were stationed in Poland. It was then estimated by Western experts that the total number of Su-27s in existence was 500.
    •Fomin, Andrei (2000). Su-27 Flanker Story, RA Intervestnik, Moscow, Russia
    http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-27/su-27_operators.htm#sources

    How reliable is this ? Does anyone have more information on this ?
    Thanks
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:26 am

    nastle77 wrote:SO I'm trying to find out how many Su-27 were operational with PVO and VVA back in 1990

    I do have only one source yefim Gordon who states that 350 or so were operational in 1990

    another one I found was
    Deliveries of the Su-27 fighters to the Soviet Air Force and Air Defence Forces started in 1985. Most of the series produced aircraft were T-10S design, hence the designation of Su-27S. Since 1989 all new manufactured aircraft had their air-to-ground weapons capability removed, carrying the factory designation T-10P, thus making the "semi-official" designation Su-27P.
    The first batch of 20 Su-27s were handed over from 22 June 1985 to the ADF (PVO) fighter regiment based at Dzemgi AB in the Far East. From 1986 the re-equipment of fighter units was accelerated. By 1990, the European part of the Soviet Union had received 367 Su-27 fighters (138 for the Air Force and 229 for the ADF fighter regiments). 67 of the Soviet Air Force aircraft were stationed in Poland. It was then estimated by Western experts that the total number of Su-27s in existence was 500.
    •Fomin, Andrei (2000). Su-27 Flanker Story, RA Intervestnik, Moscow, Russia
    http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-27/su-27_operators.htm#sources

    How reliable is this ? Does anyone have more information on this ?
    Thanks

    Don't believe you will get exact figures but the general consensus is that there was ~500 at the break up of the USSR and ~350-400 stayed in the Russian Air Force. Basically the information those sources are giving you.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:05 pm

    George1 wrote:Su-33 Northern Fleet Navy Flankers Enter Into Kola Arctic Service

    The fleet of aircraft entered into service in defense of the air borders of the Kola area of the Arctic region following a ceremony on August 1; the aircraft is a naval fighter jet based on the Su-27.

    A fleet of Su-33 navy flankers have entered service in the Kola zone of the Russian Arctic, the Northern Fleet of the Russian navy announced on Monday.

    "Pilots of the shipborne fighter aviation regiment of the Northern Fleet have begun service guarding the air borders of the Kola Arctic region using the deck-based Su-33 fighter jet – the naval equivalent of the multi-role Su-27 fighter jet," stated a spokesman for the Northern Fleet on Monday.

    "The aircraft were introduced into service in a ceremony held on August 1."

    According to the statement, the navy flankers had been employed in defense of Northern Fleet warship units on long campaigns. From now on, in between campaigns, the Su-33 aircraft will be employed in the air defense of the Kola area of the Russian Arctic.

    The Su-33 is a single-seat ship-based fighter, designed to defend naval ships from aerial threats; the aircraft were brought into service on board the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov.

    The aircraft are manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and first entered into official service in 1998.

    A naval derivative of the land-based Su-27 fighter jet, it has a reinforced undercarriage and folding wings for landing on navy aircraft carriers, and is equipped with probe-and-drogue refueling capabilities.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150803/1025335094.html#ixzz3hkgLVGxw

    I predicted this scenario for some time as only logical. I think, when Kuznetsov carrier will return from repairs, MiG-29K/KUB will be stationed there and Su-33 will take defensive duties as ground based fighters. Considering Su-33 were built in mid nineties and have low number of carrier operation hours as Kuz went rarely on the sea, Su-33 could still serve for 15 to 20 years as ground based fighter, considering it have stronger undercarriage and structure for carrier operations and better anti corrosion protection. I think NAVY should modernize them with new Zhuk-MS or N001VEP radar and new displays in cockpit and bring it to Su-27SM3 standard.
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    nemrod

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:21 pm

    max steel wrote:
    Read the last line which flanker is he talking about Su-27 or F-22 ?
    Iam sorry Max, I missed your question. Sorry. As it was said, the article was written in 1992, the beginning of dark era for humanity, but the sunshine for the western oligarchy. Yetlsin, the best western friend, as Gorbatchov were in power. Hence the beginning of the disaster for Russia, and its ally. See now Ukraine, Georgia, russian baltic regions etc...As the Su-27 were in US hands, they no longer feared Russia, as they destroyed Yougoslavia, without a mere russian reaction. Do not forget that this article was at first western article, and not a friendly article.


    nastle77

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  nastle77 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:07 am

    Were any SU-27 also assigned to the strategic aviation by the end of the 1980s ? In addition to PVO and VVS ?
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:19 am

    nastle77 wrote:Were any SU-27 also assigned to the strategic aviation by the end of the 1980s ? In addition to PVO and VVS ?

    I never heard of any nor see the purpose for such a thing.

    nastle77

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  nastle77 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:40 am

    franco wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Were any SU-27 also assigned to the strategic aviation by the end of the 1980s ? In addition to PVO and VVS ?

    I never heard of any nor see the purpose for such a thing.
    For the purpose of escorting bombers of the long range aviation
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    medo

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  medo on Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:07 pm

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    nemrod

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  nemrod on Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:43 am

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    mack8

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:44 am

    According to KnAAZ insider, the plan for re-delivery of upgraded in-service Su-27P/S to SM3 standard is 12 in 2017 and 8 each in 2018, 2019 and 2020, total 36.
    http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/3582-su-27-istoriya-serii-197/
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:53 am

    That's it? Wow. How many are there are total? Guess they want to phase out the old aircrafts and only few get upgraded....
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    mack8

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  mack8 on Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:04 am

    There's a recent article on VKS in CA or AFM, can't remember, there are some numbers there, i have to check it again. A previous article from the last year was talking of i think 120 un-upgraded Su-27P/S still in service, but the number now must be significantly lower.

    PS: Found it, the article claims that there are about 70 un-upgraded Su-27S/UB still in service, how accurate that figure is i don't know. But it seems that in about 2020 there will still be about 65 Su-27SM/SM3 upgraded or bought previously plus these 36 let's call them "Su-27SM4", and presumably still a number of legacy UBs, unless they will all be replaced by the 20 Su-30M2. To that we can add hopefully about 96 Su-35S and well over 100 Su-30SMs. Presumably then the T-50S will start replacing the oldest Su-27SMs.

    On another note, any details of how much life/hours have been added to the initial 55 Su-27SMs upgraded in the 2000s, is it ten or 15 years?
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:36 am

    mack8 wrote:There's a recent article on VKS in CA or AFM, can't remember, there are some numbers there, i have to check it again. A previous article from the last year was talking of i think 120 un-upgraded Su-27P/S still in service, but the number now must be significantly lower.

    PS: Found it, the article claims that there are about 70 un-upgraded Su-27S/UB still in service, how accurate that figure is i don't know. But it seems that in about 2020 there will still be about 65 Su-27SM/SM3 upgraded or bought previously plus these 36 let's call them "Su-27SM4", and presumably still a number of legacy UBs, unless they will all be replaced by the 20 Su-30M2. To that we can add hopefully about 96 Su-35S and well over 100 Su-30SMs. Presumably then the T-50S will start replacing the oldest Su-27SMs.

    On another note, any details of how much life/hours have been added to the initial 55 Su-27SMs upgraded in the 2000s, is it ten or 15 years?

    I believe it is measured more in flight hours which is 2,000-2,500. The first 2 dozen or so upgraded were only to SM standard and are presently being replaced with the Su-35S out East. An article at the first of the year stated there were presently 50 at SM2 level and apparently no more S's for upgrading (only 100-150 built). Then you have the 36 27P's to be upgraded to SM2 along with the 12 new built SM3's. Only a couple of 27UB's have been upgraded to 27UBM with the 30M2 being bought for that role for both the 27's and 35's. By my count for 2020;

    - 86 27SM2
    - 12 27SM3
    - 2 27UBM
    - 5 27M
    - 20 30M2
    - 120-135 30SM
    - 90-100 35S

    EDIT: my understanding is that the 27P conversations start in 2016 not 2017.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:55 am

    AFAIK, officially there is no Su-27SM2. There's only SM and SM3

    There is probably minor differences between various Su-27SM aircraft depending on the year they were upgraded which led to the unofficial SM2 designation
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:01 am

    Cyberspec wrote:AFAIK, officially there is no Su-27SM2. There's only SM and SM3

    There is probably minor differences between various Su-27SM aircraft depending on the year they were upgraded which led to the unofficial SM2 designation

    My understanding is that the SM2 is the same standard as the SM3 but a rebuild not a new build as the SM3.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:11 am

    I think they are all upgraded (existing) Su-27's....but some are freshly assembled from previously produced kits/components (from the 1990's I believe)
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    franco

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  franco on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:14 am

    Cyberspec wrote:I think they are all upgraded (existing) Su-27's....but some are freshly assembled from previously produced kits/components (from the 1990's I believe)

    Those are the SM3's.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:22 am

    Interesting.  So with upgrades like SM, would you think that such upgrades require minimal work?  And how much does an SM upgrade cost per Su-27?

    veeta

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  veeta on Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:28 am

    franco wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:AFAIK, officially there is no Su-27SM2. There's only SM and SM3

    There is probably minor differences between various Su-27SM aircraft depending on the year they were upgraded which led to the unofficial SM2 designation

    My understanding is that the SM2 is the same standard as the SM3 but a rebuild not a new build as the SM3.

    No, SM2 was cancelled it was scheduled to have IBRIS-E but cut due to costs.
    The only Su-27SM versions in the inventory are SM and SM3, both with N001VP, SM3 being new builds whilst SM being upgrades to similar spec.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Su-27: News

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:43 am

    veeta wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:AFAIK, officially there is no Su-27SM2. There's only SM and SM3

    There is probably minor differences between various Su-27SM aircraft depending on the year they were upgraded which led to the unofficial SM2 designation

    My understanding is that the SM2 is the same standard as the SM3 but a rebuild not a new build as the SM3.

    No, SM2 was cancelled it was scheduled to have IBRIS-E but cut due to costs.
    The only Su-27SM versions in the inventory are SM and SM3, both with N001VP, SM3 being new builds whilst SM being upgrades to similar spec.
    Which is a darn shame since the Irbis-e would have given it great performance increases, to one of the best jets out there.  Should have gone with some other upgrade like Bars-R or something else if price is that much an issue.
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    franco

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    Su-27SM upgrade

    Post  franco on Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:17 am

    sepheronx wrote:Interesting.  So with upgrades like SM, would you think that such upgrades require minimal work?  And how much does an SM upgrade cost per Su-27?

    Not a clue about costs but these upgrades are extensive as they are also air frame extensions. A new plane is good for 4-5,000 flight hours and a rebuild adds another 2-2,500 flight hours plus more advanced engines, electronics and weapons availability. There are also simple upgrades such as was given the 24M's to improve weapons efficiency.

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