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    New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:52 am

    I wonder if expertise in ICBM financially helps Russia. They don't seem to sellable weapons so their only purpose seems to be prestige and ensuring MAD. But MAD is already assured because Russian ICBMs are all far more advanced than any US nuclear carrier system.

    Also could the sarmat help Russian foreign policy?

    Its not that there shouldn't be ICBM development, but investing vast amounts of money in an area where Russia is already 30-40 years ahead technologically to any other nuclear country seems to be a bit excessive. Wouldn't all these rubles be put to better use in investing in for example, the Russian aircraft or ship industry and only start developing new ICBMs in the 2030s?
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    franco

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  franco on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:05 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I wonder if expertise in ICBM financially helps Russia. They don't seem to sellable weapons so their only purpose seems to be prestige and ensuring MAD. But MAD is already assured because Russian ICBMs are all far more advanced than any US nuclear  carrier system.  

    Also could the sarmat help Russian foreign policy?

    Its not that there shouldn't be ICBM development, but investing vast amounts of money in an area where Russia is already 30-40 years ahead technologically to any other nuclear country seems to be a bit excessive. Wouldn't all these rubles be put to better use in investing in for example, the Russian aircraft or ship industry and only start developing new ICBMs in the 2030s?

    The SS-18 which this weapon is to replace has about 5 years of life left.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:18 am

    franco wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I wonder if expertise in ICBM financially helps Russia. They don't seem to sellable weapons so their only purpose seems to be prestige and ensuring MAD. But MAD is already assured because Russian ICBMs are all far more advanced than any US nuclear  carrier system.  

    Also could the sarmat help Russian foreign policy?

    Its not that there shouldn't be ICBM development, but investing vast amounts of money in an area where Russia is already 30-40 years ahead technologically to any other nuclear country seems to be a bit excessive. Wouldn't all these rubles be put to better use in investing in for example, the Russian aircraft or ship industry and only start developing new ICBMs in the 2030s?

    The SS-18 which this weapon is to replace has about 5 years of life left.

    But all western ICBMs are from the 60s and there are no plans to replace them.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:21 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:............
    But all western ICBMs are from the 60s and there are no plans to replace them.

    Different defense doctrine.

    USA relies on SSBNs for nuclear deterrence, Russia puts heavier emphasis on land based ones in comparison.
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    GarryB

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:22 am

    Western ICBMs were not made in the Ukraine, and are not currently facing a deployed ABM system located in Europe, soon Asia and the US...


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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:18 am

    GarryB wrote:Western ICBMs were not made in the Ukraine, and are not currently facing a deployed ABM system located in Europe, soon Asia and the US...

    US ABM systems feature very shitty missile technology decades behind the S-400. And even if it did destroy a few ICBMs, there is no gaurantee that most won't make it and even a single nuclear blast on US soil is unacceptable for American politicians, so the ABM is a waste of money that doesn't stop MAD. Even if you're gonna lecture me about the madness of neocons, they're inherently cowards and don't wanna lose credibility by causing a second nuclear crisis. That makes the Sarmat, kinda redundant.

    In short, the ABM is similar to the bomber gap and star wars, worthless money sinks that benefit Russia, but Russia shouldn't waste money also.


    Last edited by KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:20 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:............
    But all western ICBMs are from the 60s and there are no plans to replace them.

    Different defense doctrine.

    USA relies on SSBNs for nuclear deterrence, Russia puts heavier emphasis on land based ones in comparison.

    And NATO SLBMs are obsolete tridents that have no replacements for now, so the NATO nuclear triad is behind Russia's in absolutely every area. Russia should continue with the Bulava and up the production of the Yars and barguzin, but lay off the sarmat for a while.

    I ask again, how does Ballistic missile technology help Russia monetarily?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:02 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:.......
    And NATO SLBMs are obsolete tridents that have no replacements for now, so the NATO nuclear triad is behind Russia's in absolutely every area. Russia should continue with the Bulava and up the production of the Yars and barguzin, but lay off the sarmat for a while.

    I ask again, how does Ballistic missile technology help Russia monetarily?

    I have no idea where this myth of Trident obsolescence comes from but even if it is somehow true US submarines that carry them are most definitely not obsolete and those Tridents will certainly be hitting targets should they be launched.

    As for monetary benefits of ballistic missile development those projects are tops secret so there is no way to know.

    My guess for Sarmats would be rocket engine, thermal resistant materials and composites. But that is just a guess. We won't know correct answer for another several decades.

    You also need new missiles to replace Satans and carry new hypersonic glide vehicles.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:09 am

    I will tell you the monetary gain by these:

    1) Your nation is secured from being invaded and destroyed. Having heavy ICBM's will guarantee that it can bypass any current and future ABM system while Yars and Bulava may bypass at some point or another and others may get knocked out.
    2) The production of new materials creates plenty of jobs - more jobs, more money circulating the economy, more people buying goods. Don't build stuff, company goes out of business, scientists leave, various facilities working on the project by supplying parts that many of parts can be used in other goods (the materials, guidance systems, etc) have left the country or found other kind of employment, and less money circulating the economy.
    3) Why ask these questions all the time?
    4) People know that you cannot be messed with so they will continue to work with you, as per evident of the sanctions. So all in all, they cant bully you around like they are doing with Iran and North Korea.
    5) other shit.

    I can't believe we are even discussing this.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:46 am

    miketheterrible wrote:I will tell you the monetary gain by these:

    1) Your nation is secured from being invaded and destroyed.  Having heavy ICBM's will guarantee that it can bypass any current and future ABM system while Yars and Bulava may bypass at some point or another and others may get knocked out.
    2) The production of new materials creates plenty of jobs - more jobs, more money circulating the economy, more people buying goods.  Don't build stuff, company goes out of business, scientists leave, various facilities working on the project by supplying parts that many of parts can be used in other goods (the materials, guidance systems, etc) have left the country or found other kind of employment, and less money circulating the economy.
    3) Why ask these questions all the time?
    4) People know that you cannot be messed with so they will continue to work with you, as per evident of the sanctions.  So all in all, they cant bully you around like they are doing with Iran and North Korea.
    5) other shit.

    I can't believe we are even discussing this.
    1.North Korea doesn't have Sarmat, yet noone will invade it
    2. Nobody except the Russian government will buy the ICBMs, therefore, no profit. I wish there weren't treaties so that Russia could sell ICBMs to enemies of the western empire.
    3. It pisses me off when the Russian navy and Air force(PAK FA numbers, PAK DA, A-50, targeting pods, GLONASS, etc) and other vital industries(gas turbines) are underfunded to develop ICBMs.
    4. The EU doesn't want to cooperate with Russia over Ukraine and the US dared kill SAA soldiers. So Russia will continue to be bullied with sarmat or not. Or do you think westerners will stop making color revolutions and lift sanctions magically when sarmat comes into service?
    5. Like what? The only thing I can think of is space exploration technology, but russia by now has independently developed them from their ICBM programs.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:06 am

    You are aware of the fact the need for it? And the fact that North Korea keeps developing different type of missiles for same purpose as well.

    Also, once the missiles are purchased and operating, that will increase funding for other weapon systems as they will be able to divert procurement funds at that point.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:41 am

    miketheterrible wrote:You are aware of the fact the need for it? And the fact that North Korea keeps developing different type of missiles for same purpose as well.

    Also, once the missiles are purchased and operating, that will increase funding for other weapon systems as they will be able to divert procurement funds at that point.

    And we see that no matter what NK does western policy towards it doesn't change.

    By the time sarmat is in service completely it'll already be 2025.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:47 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:You are aware of the fact the need for it? And the fact that North Korea keeps developing different type of missiles for same purpose as well.

    Also, once the missiles are purchased and operating, that will increase funding for other weapon systems as they will be able to divert procurement funds at that point.

    And we see that no matter what NK does  western policy towards it doesn't change.

    By the time sarmat is in service completely it'll already be 2025.

    And? What is your fucking problem? You are not even making a point. You don't even have an argument. You are just trying to compare strategic weapons that prevent an enemy from attacking you, to fighter jets.

    Sorry, but you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. You will just go in circles talking as if you know what you are saying. When you do not. More intelligent and capable people are involved in this and it gets done. Nuclear forces is what guarantees Russias sovereignty.
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    GarryB

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:07 am

    US ABM systems feature very shitty missile technology decades behind the S-400. And even if it did destroy a few ICBMs, there is no gaurantee that most won't make it and even a single nuclear blast on US soil is unacceptable for American politicians, so the ABM is a waste of money that doesn't stop MAD. Even if you're gonna lecture me about the madness of neocons, they're inherently cowards and don't wanna lose credibility by causing a second nuclear crisis. That makes the Sarmat, kinda redundant.

    Politicians are dumb fucks that believe what Lockheed Martin tell them... when LM takes that trillion dollar cheque of course they will guarantee that their ABM system will work as promised. A few fake tests will prove it.

    It does not matter what the US thinks or does not think... Russian missiles have to penetrate ABM systems... shitty ineffective ones now, but in ten years time better systems that are more mature and capable.

    What else do you think the people making Sarmat should be doing? Creating fast food franchises for new Russian crap food... ie take normal food and add cheese and fat and salt and sugar...

    In short, the ABM is similar to the bomber gap and star wars, worthless money sinks that benefit Russia, but Russia shouldn't waste money also.

    Russia isn't spending enormous amounts of money because of the US ABM systems popping up everywhere... even without them Russia would still be replacing the SS-18 and SS-19 ICBMs that are the bulk of their ICBM force and largely made in the Ukraine.

    I ask again, how does Ballistic missile technology help Russia monetarily?

    It is not about making money... it is about remaining secure.

    1.North Korea doesn't have Sarmat, yet noone will invade it

    North Korea has been invaded by Japan and the UN and China in the last 70 odd years... and with a moron like trump in power who would rule out another attack?

    2. Nobody except the Russian government will buy the ICBMs, therefore, no profit. I wish there weren't treaties so that Russia could sell ICBMs to enemies of the western empire.

    Why the fuck would Russia want anyone else to have their ICBMs... are you stupid?

    The technology developed designing and making ICBMs is useful in a range of technology areas... precise fluid pumps, new heat resistant strong materials, etc etc etc.

    3. It pisses me off when the Russian navy and Air force(PAK FA numbers, PAK DA, A-50, targeting pods, GLONASS, etc) and other vital industries(gas turbines) are underfunded to develop ICBMs.

    It is ICBMs that keep the peace and prevent morons like Trump going too far (with regard to Russia).

    4. The EU doesn't want to cooperate with Russia over Ukraine and the US dared kill SAA soldiers. So Russia will continue to be bullied with sarmat or not. Or do you think westerners will stop making color revolutions and lift sanctions magically when sarmat comes into service?

    Hahahahahaha... you are funny... do you think PAK FA or PAK DA or Armata or ten new super carriers would make them start actually respecting Russia and stop them being ass holes.

    THEY ARE ASS HOLES... THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE... THAT WONT CHANGE... EVER.




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    George1

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:06 pm

    The ballistic missile test "Sarmat" was postponed

    As Ivan Safronov and Alexandra Djordjevic write in the article "Sarmat" will be held at the booth, "published in today's issue of Kommersant, the Ministry of Defense will launch the newest liquid intercontinental ballistic missile RS-28 Sarmat not earlier than the fourth quarter of 2017. The reason for the postponement of the terms is the need to conduct additional tests at the stands of the Krasnoyarsk machine-building plant.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2704103.html


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    eehnie

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  eehnie on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:38 pm


    Habitually, the missiles are named as a different weapon, but in fact they are the ammunition.

    The weapon really is the launcher, in the case of the SS-18, the silo system, and it need ammunition. Improvements on ammunition are being done for all the weapons, and more if the previous ammunition is becouming coming to the end of its life.

    Habitually the weapons of critical importance are the weapons exported not. And are not exported because Russia wants not other countries to have them, even being friends. The reasons are to keep some military advantage and to avoid the use against Russia of these weapons. As consequence, I do not agree with the point that not exported weapons give not a benefit to Russia. In fact the benefit is bigger, and the not exported critical weapons are the last to suffer the cuts. And more in a situation where Russia has large stocks of conventional weapons proved capable in recent wars and some delay in procurement of new conventional weapons makes not a difference.

    In overall terms I consider mobile platforms to be better, but for there is not mobile platform that resists missiles of this size, then, this is the right way to follow for Russia.

    PS: If North Korea has not been invaded at this point is because its two big neighbors and their military forces.
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    gaurav

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  gaurav on Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:55 pm

    The ballistic missile test "Sarmat" was postponed

    They are saving costs on sarmat.

    Sarmat had 4 different versions (from very small warheads to very big payloads (few in number)).

    They had 4 missiles(some regiment for testing , but testing was stopped after Trump came into power).
    The situation remains the same.

    Fro 2 years there has been no update of Sarmat. It has almost disappeared.
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    George1

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:04 pm

    The ballistic missile "Sarmat" is scheduled to be thrown before the end of 2017

    As Ivan Safronov and Alexandra Jorodzhevich write in the article "Sarmat got to the launch," published in the newspaper Kommersant, until the end of the year, the Russian Defense Ministry plans to hold two ballistic tests of the liquid intercontinental ballistic missile RS-28 "Sarmat" at the Plesetsk cosmodrome ". The timing of these tests was repeatedly postponed due to the unavailability of both the silo launcher and the ICBM itself. Now, according to Kommersant sources, the problems have been resolved: the future missile program will be adjusted based on the analysis of the "throw" of the RS-28.

    The fact that the Ministry of Defense plans to hold before the end of 2017 the ballistic tests of ICBM "Sarmat", "Kommersant" told interlocutors close to the department and the missile industry. According to one of them, the program provides for the launch of a missile from a silo installation from the Plesetsk landfill. "The main purpose is to check the performance of the missile systems at the time of the exit from the mine and the inclusion of the first stage of Sarmat with subsequent operation for about five seconds," the source said. He clarified that if the ball rolling test is completed regularly, the second one will take place in the same year.

    The development of engines for the RS-28 Sarmat missile was carried out by Energomash, which received a technical assignment for the development of a prospective propulsion system in early 2013. The product was named PDU-99. The production was decided by the decision of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation to the enterprise of PJSC "Proton-PM". In 2014 four models of the product were shipped at the appointed time, but in March 2016 it was noted that the development of the production of a liquid-propellant rocket engine for ICBMs lagged behind the deadlines "in connection with the novelty of the product." The first successful fire tests of the first stage engine took place in August 2016.

    However, the problems with the timing were preserved. Recall, as previously reported "Kommersant" (see the issue of July 3), testing the newest liquid rocket "Sarmat" was planned to be held in 2016, but the terms were constantly shifted "to the right." The next attempt was scheduled for March 2017, but by that time experts had not managed to equip the mine launcher at the Plesetsk space center. The launch was postponed to April, but then during the "strength" tests at the Krasnoyarsk machine-building plant problems arose with the rocket itself. The troubleshooting was given about two months: "Interfax" reported that the tests were postponed to June. But even then they were not carried out - they were transferred to the fourth quarter of 2017, after a test cycle at the stands.

    Military expert Alexei Leonkov recalls that when the Ministry of Defense adopted the strategic missile of the PC-20V ​​Voevoda missile silo, which was intended to replace the RS-28 Sarmat, more than 30 ballistic tests were carried out, and not all of them were successful. "Since these are three-stage missiles, there should be many trials, so that each stage worked like a clock, because no difficulty in flight can not be eliminated," the expert told Kommersant. However, according to him, the generation following the "Vojevoda" generation will require a smaller number of "shots", which means that further terms, perhaps, will not move any more. As the expert noted, before the flight-design tests, several throwing and several test tests (to defeat the target zone and to the maximum range) should take place. Successful tests of the newest missile are also significant because Sarmat is called upon to perform the functions of a carrier of hypersonic weapons, which should become one of the key factors for the breakthrough of the existing and prospective ABM system.

    As they say in the Ministry of Defense, the missile should be adopted into service in 2019-2020. After that, the military deployed it in Uzhur (Krasnoyarsk Territory) and Dombarovo (Orenburg region) divisions of the Strategic Missile Force.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2908282.html


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