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    New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

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    kvs

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  kvs on Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:32 am

    gaurav wrote:Users who know Russian .. etc can they translate what is written in the first 2 paragraphs of the SARMAT ICBM poster

    -----------------

    Sarmat: Russian strategic rocket complex of the 5th generation and silo based

    The rocket is 2 stage with a block to deliver combat blocks. Liquid rocket engines are "sunk" into the fuel tanks,
    fuel tanks - carrying with collocated dividing [....]

    ------------------

    I don't know the final word in the 2nd paragraph and it is poorly written and confusing. Sounds like the height of the rocket
    is minimized with the arrangement of engines and tanks (they must use heat shielding of some sort). Combat blocks must
    be MARVs that deliver the non-ballistic glider warheads.
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    gaurav

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  gaurav on Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:15 am

    kvs wrote:Sarmat: Russian strategic rocket complex of the 5th generation and silo based

    Thanks for the translation .. Posters cant be translated from websites ..
    That is the only problem of posters .. yu need to know Russky  to complete translation ..


    Liquid fuel technology seems to be the order of the day for Russky Strategic forces..

    Russian media is becoming more open nowadays.. detailing optimization/packaging technology techniques ..
    which the Americans can only dream about ..

    I never thought Russian media would detail such critical details .. they used to do in much twisted /opaque manner ..

    That solid fuel Bulava .. has a liquid fuel third stage from which the 4rth stage MARV are separated ..
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:01 am

    Liquid fueled engines (hypergolics) have better efficiency (ISP) than solids, so are a good choice for a heavy ICBM where range and throw-weight are to be maximised.

    Sarmat is shaping up to a formidable weapon system, and well deserving of its moniker "Son of Satan"...  Its nice to know that Washington will soon have another good reason to sleep fitfully...
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    Rmf

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Rmf on Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:16 pm

    kvs wrote:
    gaurav wrote:Users who know Russian .. etc can they translate what is written in the first 2 paragraphs of the SARMAT ICBM poster

    -----------------

    Sarmat: Russian strategic rocket complex of the 5th generation and silo based

    The rocket is 2 stage with a block to deliver combat blocks. Liquid rocket engines are "sunk" into the fuel tanks,
    fuel tanks - carrying with collocated dividing [....]

    ------------------

    I don't know the final word in the 2nd paragraph and it is poorly written and confusing. Sounds like the height of the rocket
    is minimized with the arrangement of engines and tanks (they must use heat shielding of some sort). Combat blocks must
    be MARVs that deliver the non-ballistic glider warheads.


    starting with submarine launched missiles , makeyev developed integrated engine - that is rocket engine is inside fuel tank and also had no interstage, thus reducing height and some weight .
    most of engine is imersed in fuel and cooled inside fuel tank at the bottom -turbine and pipes ,only small part of nozzle is protruding outside of fuel tank in the first and second stages.

    http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/East_Europe_3/Shtil/Versions/Shtil.htm

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Austin on Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:09 am

    some known information from Sarmat from official/unofficial sources so far

    1 ) Sarmat will weigh 20 % less compared to SS-18 , I can easily say the weight reduction is achieved via use of carbon-carbon composite over Maragning Steel of 80's SS-18.

    Use of Carbon Composite means they can also achieve different range for different weight/payload ....Fuel Mass Effeciency of Carbon Composite is far far higher over Maragning steel.

    2 ) Throw Up weight of 10 T for Sarmat compared to 8 T of  SS-18   ( composite afford higher weight due to weight saved )

    3 ) Trajectory of North Pole/South Pole making it easier to shape trajectory SRF feels without have to worry about energy.

    Liquid Fuel can afford precise trajectory shaping in its entire flight and engines can be stopped and started in flight as many times as one needs something not possible with solid fuel missile.

    Isp of Liquid Fuel is higher compared to solid fuel , affording higher throwup weight.
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    GarryB

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:21 am

    That solid fuel Bulava .. has a liquid fuel third stage from which the 4rth stage MARV are separated ..

    Liquid engines have the obvious benefit of being able to be shut down and restarted multiple times and also throttled up or down as needed... this is important for the final stage as it is a manouvering phase and also a period where being able to control the IR signature of the weapon is also important too.


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    Viktor

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Viktor on Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:42 pm

    Navalized version of the Sarmat would be an interesting possibility given Russian 5th generation subs are bound to finnish their development during 2020.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:54 am

    Viktor wrote:Navalized version of the Sarmat would be an interesting possibility given Russian 5th generation subs are bound to finnish their development during 2020.

    A navalised version of a Sarmat? Its a 200T missile.... It require a vessel the size of Pr 941 Akula SSBN to launch the 84T R-39/SS-N-20, so what would you need to carry a naval Sarmat????

    Sorry, it simply isn't practical.
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    GarryB

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:48 am

    Liner is already sophisticated and capable, as is Bulava...


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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  gaurav on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:29 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:A navalised version of a Sarmat? Its a 200T missile.... It require a vessel the size of Pr 941 Akula SSBN to launch the 84T R-39/SS-N-20, so what would you need to carry a naval Sarmat????

    I think the weight of Skif R-29 missile is around 40 tons. Bulava weights is around 36 tons.
    THe LIner which is effectively R-29RMU2 missile also weighs around 40 tons.
    NO submarine can launch 84 tons of missile. All the missiles are in the same category.
    Only this sarmat is in the range of 200 tons.IF it is 200T then it really is a monster no other words for that

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    kvs

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  kvs on Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:45 pm

    For some reason silo missiles are seen as more vulnerable than mobile or submarine based. I think this is overblown. No first strike
    can take out silo missiles unless some sabotage is done to command and control that prevents a response launch. There is plenty of time
    for the silo missiles to be launched in response to a first strike attack. The response time of the Sarmat is so small that even some
    attack from Poland or Romania will have no time to reach these silo missiles before they are launched.

    The problem is that the delusional, hubris filled idiots in charge of the USA are beginning to believe that their ABM systems will stop
    any Russian ICBMs. So no matter how good the Sarmat is they will think it isn't effective. Russia needs to target the ABM systems with
    short range nuclear missiles that have very short flight times. Maybe the idiots in Washington will then not feel so comfortable in starting
    a nuclear war.
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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  gaurav on Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:53 pm

    This missile is a monster it cannot be stopped by any ABM .. it can carry 50 or more nuclear warheads.. so many nukes exploding on any country
    would destroy the whole country ..

    U.S is seriously becoming confused/madlike after a WAVE of advances in Russian missile technology.It does not know what to do.

    I think this missile is a signal to U.S elections .. so that whoever comes to office may realize that a single launch will end the world as we see it ..

    There is yet another missile and we dont know what that is.. yasen-m missile .. sources say that they are very heavy missiles (I mean heavy compared to submarine launched missiles ..

    We yet dont know what they are.. as soon as yasen-M start coming online we may come to know .what those missiles are

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    GarryB

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:10 am

    Thanks to the US withdrawing from the 1972 ABM treaty they can no position any ABM system they want around the silos.

    The original ABM treaty stated each country (USSR and US) could have one ABM system that could defend a capital city or an ICBM field.

    It also limited OTH radar to the countries borders so they could not be used as battle management systems for your own air space.

    Improvements in long range radar technology and ABM missiles means silos should be rather well protected these days. A heavy silo would need a direct hit from a powerful warhead to defeat them and even an SA-17 could damage an incoming warhead to make it fail to detonate properly... the closing speed of a faster missile like S-300V4 or S-400 or S-500 or Nudel would ensure the survival of the silos... after being reloaded a second attack could be launched... Twisted Evil


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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:28 am

    GarryB wrote: It also limited OTH radar to the countries borders so they could not be used as battle management systems for your own air space.

    Agreed, and this is debatably the most significant aspect of benefit to Russia of Yankistani treachery. It's no longer necessary to clandestinely build a strategic war-fighting radar at Krasnoyarsk as they did in the Cold War - now they can build war-fighting radars ANYWHERE they desire, and the US can do squat about it.
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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:51 am

    Well the US could not do much about that anyway... it would look rather silly the US complaining that the Soviets had a radar at Krasnoyarsk... which is at least within 900km of a border... with Mongolia I think... the US radars at Fylingdales in the UK and Thule in Greenland were no where near any US border... not even close.


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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Benya on Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:44 am

    The new Russian "Doomsday weapon" nears service entry


    The new Russian-made RS-28 Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile to be operational in 2018.

    The first-stage engine for Russia’s Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) has passed firing trials, a source in the Russian defense and industrial sector told TASS. The RS-28 Sarmat is the next generation of intercontinental ballistic missile for Russian armed forces which is in development by the Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau since 2009.

    The first-stage engine for Russia’s Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) has passed firing trials, a source in the Russian defense and industrial sector told TASS. The RS-28 Sarmat is the next generation of intercontinental ballistic missile for Russian armed forces which is in development by the Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau since 2009.Information about the new Russian-made RS-28 Sarmat Intercontinental Ballistic Missile

    The missile’s pop-up tests may take place in late 2016, the source added."The final stage of the firing trials was successful. Technical imperfections have been removed," the source said.

    According to the source, work on the technical documentation is currently under way and is planned to be completed in November.


    Information about the new Russian-made RS-28 Sarmat Intercontinental Ballistic Missile

    "According to the most optimistic forecasts, the Sarmat ICBM’s pop-up tests will be held in November-December 2016," the source added.

    According to the source, even in this case, the development flight tests of the advanced intercontinental ballistic missile may start no sooner than the end of the first quarter of 2017.

    According to the source, work on the Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile is no less than seven months behind the schedule.

    The Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile is designed to replace the R-36M2 Voyevoda ICBM. The advanced missile’s payload is expected to equal ten tons, compared to 8.75 tons its predecessor has. The Sarmat ICBM is planned to be made operational in late 2018.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/september_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/the_new_russian-made_rs-28_sarmat_intercontinental_ballistic_missile_to_be_operational_in_2018_11909161.html



    So, it is already said that launch tests were postponed to later this year. 1,5-2 years after initial tests it will enter service. Not bad, not bad at all  thumbsup .
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    archangelski

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  archangelski on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:25 am

    Picture of RS-28 :

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2201715.html
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    kvs

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  kvs on Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:44 pm

    archangelski wrote:Picture of RS-28 :

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2201715.html

    I guess we will have to wait for some time before its dimensions are compared to "Satan". It looks like it has a very similar aspect
    ratio. If it is shorter than the SS-18 then it must be narrower too.

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  Austin on Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:59 pm

    Sarmat official image and specs released

    http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-unveils-new-secret-sarmat-heavy-intercontinental-ballistic-missile.html

    Interesting

    The bottom great area is the solid fuel motor that will be like cold start throw up/gas generator to thow the missile out of silos , Pretty much big 1st 2nd and 3rd stage and 4th stage PBV is also clearly seen , quite massive and 10 T throw up weight is 2 T more then SS-18 that very high throw up weight that brings up possibility of interesting payload for comparision Topol-M throw up weight is 1.2 T
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    zg18

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  zg18 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:21 pm

    Austin wrote:Sarmat official image and specs released

    http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-unveils-new-secret-sarmat-heavy-intercontinental-ballistic-missile.html

    Interesting

    The bottom great area is the solid fuel motor that will be like cold start throw up/gas generator to thow the missile out of silos , Pretty much big 1st 2nd and 3rd stage and 4th stage PBV is also clearly seen , quite massive and 10 T throw up weight is 2 T more then SS-18 that very high throw up weight that brings up possibility of interesting payload for comparision Topol-M throw up weight is 1.2 T

    Yeah, very impressive.
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    GarryB

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:01 am

    When they retire it it will be very useful for satellite launches too... Smile


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    jhelb

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  jhelb on Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:45 am

    archangelski wrote:Picture of RS-28 :

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2201715.html

    Sarmat looks exactly like the RS-32M2.

    Also, for a missile that is apparently 32m how come the weight is only 100 tons, which is half the weight of Rs-20?
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    zg18

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  zg18 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:34 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    archangelski wrote:Picture of RS-28 :

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2201715.html

    Sarmat looks exactly like the RS-32M2.


    Also, for a missile that is apparently 32m how come the weight is only 100 tons, which is half the weight of Rs-20?

    Obviously, it weighs well over 100 metric tons.

    If pic isn`t disinformation, Sarmat is an advanced (r)evolution of R-36M2. After all, between R-36M2 mod.5 and Sarmat is almost 40 years of development of materials & technology.
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    RTN

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  RTN on Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:17 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    Obviously, it weighs well over 100 metric tons.

    If pic isn`t disinformation, Sarmat is an advanced (r)evolution of R-36M2. After all, between R-36M2 mod.5 and Sarmat is almost 40 years of development of materials & technology.

    Are there any pictures available of Sarmat's Project 4202 warhead?
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    zg18

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    Re: New Russian heavy ICBM - Sarmatian

    Post  zg18 on Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:38 pm

    RTN wrote:
    zg18 wrote:
    Obviously, it weighs well over 100 metric tons.

    If pic isn`t disinformation, Sarmat is an advanced (r)evolution of R-36M2. After all, between R-36M2 mod.5 and Sarmat is almost 40 years of development of materials & technology.

    Are there any pictures available of Sarmat's Project 4202 warhead?

    Unfortunately no.

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