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    Nelson Mandela

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    GarryB
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:49 am

    That wealth stolen by Castro wasn't given to any people. It was nationalized which means it belonged to the state, not to any "people".

    The Castro government is made up of cuban nationals. The nationalising of industry means instead of working for some white rich guy the workers are working for the government/people.

    Whether you like communism or not at the end of the day instead of foreign colonial white people owning everything and squandering their wealth on themselves, it now belongs to the Cuban people and can be squandered any way they see fit.

    I'll agree that at the end of the day it makes very little difference to the factory worker, but at least the money goes to healthcare and education which it wasn't before.

    The main difference between normal countries and communist ones is that in a normal (= free market) country every person who has some brains and works diligently can climb up the social ladder.

    I know lots of people who worked hard all their lives and now really struggle to make ends meet in retirement.

    BTW communism and democracy have nothing to do with economies except that the communism model involves a planned economy. China is currently a communist state with a form of free market economy.

    Communist countries are different - no one no matter how smart or hard working he/she is, can't breach a certain threshold - the best doctors earn just a little more than janitors working in the same hospital. And people can only dream about creating their own companies.

    And see that is the thing... if you think communism is bad because there is less of a gap between rich and poor then I am sorry... I can't agree with you.
    Chris Rock has a comedy routine where he talks about how his black neighbours are rap artists and actors... top echelon type talented people able to afford nice houses. His white neighbour is a dentist.

    If you think fair is a situation where a few can have too much most can have enough and a few can have too little, then again I disagree.

    Embargoes always work in both sides - US embargo on Cuba or Iran hurts the US as much as it hurts Iran and Cuba.

    Rubbish. A ten billion dollar trade relationship between the US and Cuba would mean very little to the US, but would be incredibly important to Cubas economy.

    More importantly the embargo extends to other countries... If you are an international company wanting to trade in the US (and which one does not want to trade in a market with lots of money) then you can't trade with Cuba because you will get sued in the US.

    the result is that a company has to choose between trading in the tiny cuban market or the huge US market... what do you think happens?


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    TR1
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:49 am

    It's all the fault of cuban exiles in Florida, they are screwing over the rest of the US, who would love to visit the island or buy some Cuban cigars.

    GarryB
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:20 am

    Very true... I have seen US documentaries showing cuban exiles and their leader had lived in the US for something like 40 years but had not bothered to learn english... ah well.

    When the mob ran cuba it was bars and casinos so they aren't exactly missing out on much assuming they don't want their daughters to be prostitutes and their sons card dealers or drink mules.


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    George1
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:36 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    andalusia wrote:Why do conservatives in America call Mandela a terrorist and communist? I know Mandela thanked Castro and other communist leaders for their anti-apartied support despite their governments oppressing their own citizens.
    Because he destroyed their white utopia called apartheid.  

    Also 75% of ANC was communist and it had connections with other liberation left-wing and marxist movements in southern african countries

    kvs
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:29 am

    George1 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    andalusia wrote:Why do conservatives in America call Mandela a terrorist and communist? I know Mandela thanked Castro and other communist leaders for their anti-apartied support despite their governments oppressing their own citizens.
    Because he destroyed their white utopia called apartheid.  

    Also 75% of ANC was communist and it had connections with other liberation left-wing and marxist movements in southern african countries

    It was communist because communism was an idea that helped these people liberate themselves from oppression. It is routine
    for all the expat anti-communists from eastern Europe to completely frame the discussion about what communism is. These
    are mostly Nazi loyalists who were recruited by Washington to facilitate its imperialist ambitions. South African communism
    had nothing to do with Soviet communism. If they got assistance from the USSR, then they did the right thing since they were
    facing meddling by the USA to support various colonial dictatorships.

    Latin America is another example of Washington's support for butchers who would kill people who wanted real freedom and
    democracy by the tens of thousands. Of course they were leftists. The rightists were the oppressors.

    A formula that has not been tried on this planet is democratic communism. Where there are no oligarchs pulling the strings
    and where all the pathologies of a single party state are absent. There is absolutely no reason why a pluralist communist
    system would not be possible. I have heard people assert that this is impossible. But I have never seen a justification for
    the claim.

    The problem is that human beings become corrupted by easy access to jobs, health care and anything else. They lose appreciation
    for these things. This is the tragedy of the commons. But being sodomized by oligarchies is no achievement either. I don't
    know, it looks like no system will work for humans.

    George1
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:41 am

    Nelson Mandela is the reason that Athens, Greece awarded 2004 Summer Olympics by IOC


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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  Mattke on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:14 am

    Under Apartheid everyone in South Africa had a job and crime rate was very low. Today theres totally anarchy. Progress, ?

    KiloGolf
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:39 am

    George1 wrote:Nelson Mandela is the reason that Athens, Greece awarded 2004 Summer Olympics by IOC

    Nobody's perfect after all lol1

    sepheronx
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:36 pm

    Mattke wrote:Under Apartheid everyone in South Africa had a job and crime rate was very low. Today theres totally anarchy. Progress, ?

    There is currently anti ANC riots and some people dead. So no, the transition was a failure. Has been for a long time. My boss, his dad and uncle were outside of the bar they were in, that blew up by so called "revolutionaries" of Nelson Mandela. His uncle and couple family members still live in Durbin, SA and apparently it is slowly falling into a shithole besides some few segregated white (walled and barb wired) communities.

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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  Godric on Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:50 pm

    Mattke wrote:Under Apartheid everyone in South Africa had a job and crime rate was very low. Today theres totally anarchy. Progress, ?

    South Africa is going to be the new Zimbabwe ie giving white farmers farmlands to blacks ... these people know nothing about farming that's what happened in Zimbabwe and now they can't feed themselves ... in the 1970s Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) had the most fertile land in Africa it was very prosperous and now look at it ... it's a 3rd world country now and the same fate awaits South Africa if the ANC continue down this route

    kvs
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  kvs on Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:09 am

    Godric wrote:
    Mattke wrote:Under Apartheid everyone in South Africa had a job and crime rate was very low. Today theres totally anarchy. Progress, ?

    South Africa is going to be the new Zimbabwe ie giving white farmers farmlands to blacks ... these people know nothing about farming that's what happened in Zimbabwe and now they can't feed themselves ... in the 1970s Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) had the most fertile land in Africa it was very prosperous and now look at it ... it's a 3rd world country now and the same fate awaits South Africa if the ANC continue down this route

    There were threads about the crimes against white farmers in South Africa in the defunct militarypohtos forum. The murders were
    horrific and it is clear that the "ghetto black" loser culture goes all the way back to Africa. They feel over entitled but are not
    prepared to work to succeed. Basically professional victims waiting for welfare.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:07 am

    You guys gotta check out this documentary, it is so hilarious



    made me laugh more when someone posted this:


    Godric
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  Godric on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:13 am

    kvs wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    Mattke wrote:Under Apartheid everyone in South Africa had a job and crime rate was very low. Today theres totally anarchy. Progress, ?

    South Africa is going to be the new Zimbabwe ie giving white farmers farmlands to blacks ... these people know nothing about farming that's what happened in Zimbabwe and now they can't feed themselves ... in the 1970s Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) had the most fertile land in Africa it was very prosperous and now look at it ... it's a 3rd world country now and the same fate awaits South Africa if the ANC continue down this route

    There were threads about the crimes against white farmers in South Africa in the defunct militarypohtos forum.  The murders were
    horrific and it is clear that the "ghetto black" loser culture goes all the way back to Africa.  They feel over entitled but are not
    prepared to work to succeed.  Basically professional victims waiting for welfare.

    yes I saw those pictures as well as I said their is a parallel with what is happening in South Africa and what happened in Zimbabwe ... I believe Eugène Terre Blanche leader of the AWB was murdered on his own farm as well ... the ANC's own anthem includes the lyrics "shoot the Boer"

    KiloGolf
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    Re: Nelson Mandela

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:50 am

    Interesting fact is that Zulus were/are not exactly indigenous/native in the areas that they live in South Africa. Their ancestors arrived in many areas of South Africa pretty much the same time as the Europeans did, in search of fertile lands among other things.



    Also note some Russian volunteers fought on the side of Boers

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