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    Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

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    GarryB
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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:39 am

    People here think the US military is fighting for freedom.

    And whose freedom do they think they are fighting for?

    Do they think the people of Libya and Iraq and Syria are now safer from dictatorships than they were 20 years ago?

    Do they wonder why their government puts Putin down for passing laws against talking to minors about homosexual lifestyles yet says nothing about the Saudi government that executes homosexuals for having sex?

    Freedom of speech and other freedoms are about truth and justice... not spin and revenge.

    Is it true that the Soviet Union wanted to take over the world with Communism? I have always been told this here but wanted the opinions of people on this forum especially Russians.

    Every country wants every other country to be more like them, but the Soviet Union was never in any position to impose communism on the world.
    Kruschevs famous remarks "we will bury you" were misinterpreted in the west as aggressive... ie will will kill you and then bury you, or more gruesome... we will bury you alive. What he was actually trying to say was that consumerism and western democracy would die before communism and that the Soviets would be left to make sure the body is buried.

    we are going to be here after you are dead.

    What is the Soviet point of view of the Vietnam and Korean Wars and how did they view the American involvement in it?

    Both cases were the results of colonialism... Korea was split because half was "liberated" by the Soviets and the other half was influenced by the Japanese occupiers. the Korean war was an attempt by north koreans to unify the country.

    In Vietnam it was the French that were the colonial occupiers... the vietnamese kicked the french out and then the Americans came in thinking they could do better.
    For the Vietnamese it was not about democracy of communism... it was about being run by a foreign power (France or US) or being a sovereign country.\



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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Svyatoslavich
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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Is it true that the Soviet Union wanted to take over the world with Communism? I have always been told this here but wanted the opinions of people on this forum especially Russians.

    Every country wants every other country to be more like them, but the Soviet Union was never in any position to impose communism on the world.
    Here I disagree. The great majority of countries don't want to impose any economical or political, not even religious, system to any other. The USSR, as a true exponent of Marxist ideology, believed that Communism was only possible if it was implemented worldwide. And so they did, and took every oppotunity to "export" it.
    And now, since at least a quarter century, we have neocons dominating US foreign policy. Despite they call themselves "conservatives", they are in fact almost Marxist: the only difference being that they don't believe in Communism or planned economy, but rather in democracy and free market that are the perfect systems, and once all countries adopt it the world will be free, fair and thriving. This idea exists at least since late 19th century in the US (Manifest Destiny, American Exceptionalism), but receive a new development and boost with neoconservatism.

    GarryB
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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:27 am

    The great majority of countries don't want to impose any economical or political, not even religious, system to any other.

    I was not suggesting that every country wants to force its neighbours to be more like it, but most countries are more friendly to countries that have similar languages, religion, culture etc.

    The USSR, as a true exponent of Marxist ideology, believed that Communism was only possible if it was implemented worldwide. And so they did, and took every oppotunity to "export" it.

    No more than the west did... in fact the west did rather more to try to spread their particular version of democracy than the Soviet Union ever did. Usually the only success the Soviets had in "spreading" communism was amongst countries oppressed by colonialism... in places like vietnam or Korea or Cuba where foreigners had pretty much taken over and owned everything of value and the natives were second class citizens in their own country...

    but rather in democracy and free market that are the perfect systems, and once all countries adopt it the world will be free, fair and thriving.

    except in the real world such things don't actually work. Concepts like trickle down where very rich people are good for the economy because they have to spend money so when they do poor people will benefit. Problem is it is bollocks. Rich people hang on to money more than poor people do. Free market economies where the market forces make the rules means big fish consume small fish and big multination companies control governments and votes don't matter any more because they don't just bribe one party... they bribe everyone so they get their way over the little guy... the opposite of democracy.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    andalusia
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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  andalusia on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:28 pm

    http://thomasmullen.blogspot.com/2010/05/fighting-for-our-freedom.html

    http://www.salon.com/2014/11/09/you_dont_protect_my_freedom_our_childish_insistence_on_calling_soldiers_heroes_deadens_real_democracy/

    http://fff.org/2014/05/27/american-soldiers-did-not-die-defending-our-freedom/

    under no circumstance does the military "protect freedom," just as the police cannot "protect and serve" everybody: the military is used to enforce order, and that order can be just about anything whether it's Constitutional or not, and I could make a long list demonstrating both, but suffice it to say that it's not foreigners who are attacking, limiting, and rescinding the rights and liberties guaranteed by the national charter, it's the incumbent officials and the people who support them. And anyone who tries to tell me that the military is what gave us "Freedom" in the American Revolution is promptly full of shit, especially when the United States technically did not officially EXIST until 1789!

    the US military does not hold "keeping the peace" to be of much importance compared to its military and financial interests.  In fact, its quite the opposite: in the last 50 years the US has disrupted the peace on several occasions in several countries in order to expand its influence, or to make sure various countries have the "proper" government, i.e. a government that knows whose interests are to be served first and foremost.  This has been demonstrated time and time again, most recently in Iraq.

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