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    Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

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    andalusia
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    Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  andalusia on Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:11 pm

    This past Monday November 11, 2013 here in America, people celebrated Veterans Day. It was repeated that American troops are fighting for our freedom. I always wanted to know do people in other countries view U.S. troops in such a positive light or are they viewed as bad guys?

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/08/will-american-troops-be-fighting-for-our-freedom-in-iran/

    http://original.antiwar.com/tom-mullen/2010/05/13/fighting-for-our-freedom/

    http://www.examiner.com/article/no-troops-really-aren-t-fighting-for-your-freedom

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:00 pm

    Neither heroes nor villains really. Just them cowboy Americans coming in to blow stuff up again Cool 

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Viktor on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:28 pm

    Of course not. US solders are fighting for US interest and if those interest mach at point of time with national interest of those countries those two can easily be misinterpreted.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:18 am

    It is hard to blame the soldiers themselves, they are merely instruments of their government.

    If they are fighting for freedom why did they not go to Bahrain to assist the freedom movement?

    Why do they not fight against the Saudi Royal family... an unelected dictatorship... look it up... they became royal in the 1920s because the British and the French needed someone local to control Europes oil fields in the middle east.. which is exactly what they have been doing for the last 90 odd years.

    Iran is more of a democracy than Saudi Arabia or Kuwaite, yet US troops invade Iraq and condemn Iran...

    The problem with the US is that it says it is all about freedom and democracy, yet its foreign policy shows it cares little about such things.

    It actually prefers dictators because they are stable and more predictible and easier to control.

    To return to your original question I would ask you when the last time was that US troops actually fought a war for the freedom of America... US civil war?

    Maybe in response to Japans preemptive self defence in 1941 in Pearl Harbour?


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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:29 pm

    Lack of democracy in a given country hss a lot more to do with the mentality of this society than with the US. The reason why theere is no democracy in SA, Kuwait etc. is that nobody wants it there, not even the locals. They want sharia with all it's draconian rules.

    There are cases when US friendly government brought MORE freedom - I guess nobody disputes the fact that West Germany was more democratic and cared for human rights more than the Third Reich did. Same with Japan.

    Many pro-US dictatorships ahd no problem with their transition to democracy - Taiwan and South Korea were both pro-US dictatorships yet their switched their type of government swiftly without any violence or social convulsions (common in Muslim countries)

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  macedonian on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:28 pm

    No.
    Can't blame most of the soldiers though.
    They do as they're told.
    Not many care about what they are actually fighting for, all they do is follow orders (just the way the US Government wants)...

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:51 pm

    US troops fight for oil

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:36 pm

    flamming_python wrote:US troops fight for oil
    Now you should prove your claim using measurable data (amount of oil imported to the US from various countries, price that US paid for a fixed quantity). Such data are available in the web and can be found quickly so you shouldn't have any problems.

    Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.


    Last edited by As Sa'iqa on Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  TR1 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:55 pm

    When it comes to Iraq, they fight for nothing at all.

    Stupid war is stupid. Didn't even get oil out of it.

    Generally though for US interests, like any nation. And just like any nation, those interests are misguided half the time.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:37 am

    When it comes to Iraq, they fight for nothing at all.
    Are you kidding?

    It is a simple formula... take a country with oil that doesn't do as it is told when it is told and impose sanctions on it for 10 years and then bomb the crap out of it.

    It doesn't matter if US companies get the oil contracts or not... if Iraq wants to rebuild it has to pump oil which drives down the international price... America doesn't need oil as such... it just needs the price to be low because cheap energy is great for the economy.

    It is not democracy and freedom that determines US foreign policy... it is a countries laws regarding big powerful western companies going in and digging up the gold and oil and mineral wealth and paying a pittance to the local people... and generally leaving a mess.

    Iran has nationalised oil so it is a bad guy... Russia nationalised lots of things including oil and is a bad guy... anyone in the Russian opposition parties that suggests privatisation of oil and energy will find cash support from most western governments flowing like water down the Volga.

    The huge irony is that big international corporations that benefit from this are not actually in US interests either. Twisted Evil 


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    Do people in other countries believe U.S. troops fight for freedom?

    Post  andalusia on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:47 am

    I was wondering Garry B what is the image of American troops in other lands. Are they seen as bad guys like Americans see Russian troops? I do not believe American troops fight for freedom.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:04 pm

    andalusia wrote:I was wondering Garry B what is the image of American troops in other lands. Are they seen as bad guys like Americans see Russian troops? I do not believe American troops fight for freedom.
    Propaganda is a wonderful concept as there are a lot of uneducated and plainly stupid people in the world, and as so, they were successful in demonizing Russians to the point that you will still hear the same stupid comments about how soviets won second world war by raping, pillaging and winter weather. Or how completely incompetent they are, or even to the point where countries think they eat children and oppress poor muslims.

    This was by large due to American propaganda, and thus I don't belive they fight for freedom as freedom would not need propaganda to demonize the enemy becuse they wouldnt need to convince people unless they know they are wrong.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Regular on Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:17 pm

    Oath is an oath. No one cares why they fight for. Most of US soldiers I know are cynics.
    USA fights wars because of ideology, agenda and influence even if there are zero profit. Tax payers will cover it anyway. Dangerous mix if You ask me.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:45 pm

    Regular wrote:Oath is an oath. No one cares why they fight for. Most of US soldiers I know are cynics.
    USA fights wars because of ideology, agenda and influence even if there are zero profit. Tax payers will cover it anyway. Dangerous mix if You ask me.
    People are to blame as they are the sole reason that the politicians that do what they do are in power. No one says a thing. You may hear some protest, but in the grand scheme of things, it is simply a wisper in the whole crowed. People are complacient. If they truely cared for what is so called "right" or "wrong" (completely depends on context and perspectives), then they wouldnt serve in the army, wouldn't raise their gun, and wouldnt be forced to travel. Although, I understand that it is a job and everyone needs something to put food on the table and their gullet. But they ultimately are reaponsible for real change in their society. Simply put, men and woman are risking their lives so that their leaders whom they voted in can cause the conflicts that they do, just so that they have a job to survive.

    It takes two to tango. People are reaponsible for whom they put into power, unless the US is a dictatorship, which would throw the whole concept of them fighting for freedom a joke.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:32 am

    The US finds itself at the top of the heap and its military, along with is economic and political power are used heavily to keep it there and to push down any rivals that might threaten its position.

    Most people I know are glad there are no US troops in NZ and see them as very well equipped, but trigger happy guys looking for adventure.

    They seem very much to not really care who their enemy is or what they might have done to deserve what they are doing to them.

    My nephew who served in Afghanistan found them to be generous... he said the Kiwis used the same callsigns as the Americans so if there were problems and several allies called for help the Kiwi forces would get the same priority as US forces for US support (artillery and evac).

    He also said that while Kiwi forces were building relationships with locals and rebuilding schools and getting water and electricity services for the locals that the US and UK just went on operations to kill Afghans and didn't seem to care too much which side they were on... collateral damage... seems once you have a word for it it becomes OK.


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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Regular on Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:34 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Regular wrote:Oath is an oath. No one cares why they fight for. Most of US soldiers I know are cynics.
    USA fights wars because of ideology, agenda and influence even if there are zero profit. Tax payers will cover it anyway. Dangerous mix if You ask me.
    People are to blame as they are the sole reason that the politicians that do what they do are in power. No one says a thing. You may hear some protest, but in the grand scheme of things, it is simply a wisper in the whole crowed.  People are complacient. If they truely cared for what is so called "right" or "wrong" (completely depends on context and perspectives), then they wouldnt serve in the army, wouldn't raise their gun, and wouldnt be forced to travel. Although, I understand that it is a job and everyone needs something to put food on the table and their gullet. But they ultimately are reaponsible for real change in their society. Simply put, men and woman are risking their lives so that their leaders whom they voted in can cause the conflicts that they do, just so that they have a job to survive.

    It takes two to tango. People are reaponsible for whom they put into power, unless the US is a dictatorship, which would throw the whole concept of them fighting for freedom a joke.
    How can You blame single American if they have zero power in affecting all those agencies and "almighty" senate? And I'm not talking about NWO - You don't have to be lunatic to imagine that someone has the grip on the power in USA. Not Obama, not the people. Remembering the date, JFK was too strong and it didn't end good for him.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:40 am

    You can't blame the son when a father is a murderer and a gang member, but if that son lives a life of privilege because of his fathers criminal activity and doesn't "know" what his father is doing then you have to blame the son for probably not wanting to know, or knowing and not caring as long as he goes to the best schools and lives in a nice house.

    The actions of the US government and the US military are on behalf of all US citizens.

    I don't agree with the "if you don't vote you are not allow an opinion" argument... often in a modern western democracy there are only two choices anyway... centre and rightwing... whatever that actually means.

    Now sure how you label me... I support a womans right to choose in the case of abortions, I support the death penalty but only for bankers and lawyers, I believe gun control is all about being able to hit your target with one shot... and I think the most rabid animal rights advocates should be locked in cages with lions... left, right, etc etc... meaningless really.


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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Regular on Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:22 pm

    Same with me. It makes me wonder who will get my vote in elections. Right-wingers tend to do better job while they are in office, but their elitist stance sickens me. Not to mention retarded foreign policy. When it comes to left... incompetence, corruption, turncoats, populists show up. Liberals are too extreme to me even if some of their ideas sound amazing.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:56 pm

    Regular wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Regular wrote:Oath is an oath. No one cares why they fight for. Most of US soldiers I know are cynics.
    USA fights wars because of ideology, agenda and influence even if there are zero profit. Tax payers will cover it anyway. Dangerous mix if You ask me.
    People are to blame as they are the sole reason that the politicians that do what they do are in power. No one says a thing. You may hear some protest, but in the grand scheme of things, it is simply a wisper in the whole crowed.  People are complacient. If they truely cared for what is so called "right" or "wrong" (completely depends on context and perspectives), then they wouldnt serve in the army, wouldn't raise their gun, and wouldnt be forced to travel. Although, I understand that it is a job and everyone needs something to put food on the table and their gullet. But they ultimately are reaponsible for real change in their society. Simply put, men and woman are risking their lives so that their leaders whom they voted in can cause the conflicts that they do, just so that they have a job to survive.

    It takes two to tango. People are reaponsible for whom they put into power, unless the US is a dictatorship, which would throw the whole concept of them fighting for freedom a joke.
    How can You blame single American if they have zero power in affecting all those agencies and "almighty" senate? And I'm not talking about NWO - You don't have to be lunatic to imagine that someone has the grip on the power in USA. Not Obama, not the people. Remembering the date, JFK was too strong and it didn't end good for him.
    You can blame the citizens as the government in power is the reflection of the people. This goes for Russia too. I don't doubt for a moment that there are indeed other powers behind the scenes who pull some strings, but ultimately, it is the fault of the citizens for not wanting to know more, not asking more questions and not saying "No" to what the government does. MP.Net is a good example of gun totting patriots who honestly believe they fight the good fight for freedom and all that, who will not even question their own government as to why they are sending them to a country to die.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:52 am

    sepheronx wrote:MP.Net is a good example of gun totting patriots who honestly believe they fight the good fight for freedom and all that, who will not even question their own government as to why they are sending them to a country to die.
    Heh, I don't think they're that dumb. I think they are just cynical enough not to care. Right-wingers and gun-nuts tend to be distrusting and cynical towards people and government alike

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:58 am

    It is amusing the contrast between europe and the us... it seems to me europe tends to like big government and doesn't trust big companies, while in the us big government is feared as being communist (americans generally don't understand the difference between socialism and communism).

    At the end of the day big business and "free" market economies tend to not work very well... price fixing is normal.

    Personally I think the western style judicial system is fundamentally flawed... it is seen as a game where the prosecution wants a conviction and the defence wants to get the person off scot free.

    Perhaps if it was about giving the defendant a fair trial... which includes a decision of guilty for those that are should be seen as the best result rather than the way it is now where if you have money you can pretty much get away with anything.

    Lobbying is much the same where companies with deep pockets can influence the way laws are written to suit them... there was never a real example of true communism, but there was also never a real example of true democracy either.


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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Airbornewolf on Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:41 pm

    andalusia wrote:I was wondering Garry B what is the image of American troops in other lands. Are they seen as bad guys like Americans see Russian troops? I do not believe American troops fight for freedom.

    the motivations and image of the U.S troops is not exactly easily explained. ive met several branches and units of american forces in Afghanistan of a wide variety.

    they do seem to have a habit of coming up with the reason of "fighting terrorism", "serve my country" or some fundamental misjudged and misinformed comment like that. we where actually shocked by the level of ignorant patriotism these guys have and are clueless to the obvious going on.
    the only american forces that know whats going on are the more elite units. like Delta's and green berets, these guys have spend like 2 years fighting in Iraq and then when they think they go home they are told they get two more years in Afghanistan. these guys seriously don't care why they are there and just want to do their job and go home alive. and as far as i could tell their airforce is relaxed and friendly to others as well. at least the radio contact i had with their aircraft was very friendly.

    that said, we had "disagreements" with the american military on regular occasion. besides their general stupidity and lack of self-initiative and logic thinking the american millitary is famous for its cowboy-like approach in operations. they always treat other country millitary's as if they are children, are so over-confident over their superiority over "a bunch of terrorist peasants" that it often results in them sending troops in engagements with heavy casualties as a result or...propably my "favourite". their complete lack of restraint to use "appropriate violence". what can be done with some thinking and strategy and leave the village standing the yanks love to just create some mushroomclouds and nothing but smoking craters with airstrikes. ...while the assholes film with a smile how buildings including residents get wiped out.

    no,... im not really a fan of american troops in general. and neither are a lot of my former collegue's.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Viktor on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:08 pm

    Really great inside .... tnx

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  Airbornewolf on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:57 pm

    you are welcome Wink.

    there is a huge difference between the E.U millitary and the U.S Millitary. again, not all of them are bad. some are truly good soldiers and real professionals. but i think just 10% of the good nowadays makes up of the total u.s millitary. the better troops in the U.S army already left a long time ago with the poor respect their troops receive of their own government. the rest they got now to fill the ranks could be labeled as the stereotypical view most of us have. i admit i expected more of them at the time i was deployed.

    i visited the U.S too and experienced how they handle "veterans". its indeed true they will give you a hand and "thank you for your service" under the assumption i "defended freedom" witch i personally found very offensive. how can a civilian just simply assume to know what i went trough?. or have the ignorance to assume just because im a NATO soldier i share their views?. or what i did there in Afghanistan for that matter. there are soldiers that spend their whole deployment in the safety of their base counting socks in a magazine or whatever. while others go out daily and encounter IED's and ambushes. and when confronting with such questions why they actually behave like they do its like they hit a brick wall. suddenly, it does not conform to their safe, isolated misconception about how they interpreted things going on in the world from CNN, FOX or other bullshit media.

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    Re: Do people in other countries believe US troops fight for freedom?

    Post  andalusia on Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:13 am

    Just thought it was a good idea to reboot this thread.  I find it interesting about the perceptions of American military abroad. People here think the US military is fighting for freedom.  

    Is it true that the Soviet Union wanted to take over the world with Communism? I have always been told this here but wanted the opinions of people on this forum especially Russians. What is the Soviet point of view of the Vietnam and Korean Wars and how did they view the American involvement in it? We here see it as a bad thing that these countries were being threatened by Communism how did you guys view it?

    Here is a good article about US troops being worshiped at pro events:

    http://www.salon.com/2013/11/11/stop_thanking_the_troops_for_me_no_they_dont_protect_our_freedoms/

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