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    Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:20 am

    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Meh, i rather they make it themselves.  They could try after all since it seems Russian tech companies are willing (mikran, elvees, mcst, etc).
    Like I said, they will both make them and receive them. This prevents over-production and means that proven components will be used. It also allows the Russian manufactures to spend more time and money on other projects rather than forcing them to expand. It is a none-problem.

    That being said, I see where you're coming from... Maybe sometime in the near-future, production and the components will be "all-Russian".

    Well, the number 1 big thing is keeping competition as you would say. So importing from China, S.Korea and Taiwan is fine by me as well. As long as they try to produce themselves as well.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  kvs on Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:33 am

    The sanctions are a gift for Russia. They will dislodge the last of the Yeltsin era atrophy as Russia is forced to get its act together. There are many wankers in the west who really believe Russia has not capacity for technological development. Let them live in their bubble of delusion.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  kvs on Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:16 am

    http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Design-completed-for-prototype-fast-reactor-0209147.html



    Russia has completed the design for the BRES-300 lead cooled fast neutron breeder reactor.    Russia is the world leader in
    such designs and has had lead-bismuth cooled reactors on its nuclear submarines.   But don't bother looking this up on wiki where some
    experimental design from Belgium that has not been built yet gets most of the attention.

    The advantage of using lead as a coolant is that it boils 1740 Celsius.   In other words, it is physically impossible to have a meltdown since the
    passive cooling will never let the fuel assembly get anywhere near this temperature.   Sodium coolant is OK, but it has a much lower boiling point.

    http://www.crines.titech.ac.jp/projects/gif/2_1_4.pdf

    Lead is transparent to neutrons so it is the ideal coolant for a fast breeder reactor.

    Owing to the low neutron moderation by heavy lead, it is possible
    to expand the fuel lattice without affecting the reactor neutronics,
    to increase the coolant flow section in fuel assemblies, and to
    raise the level of power removed by natural lead circulation. The
    lead circuit itself giving off its heat continuously to naturally
    circulating air and thereby to the atmosphere, will never be
    overheated by residual heat.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:35 am

    kvs wrote:http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Design-completed-for-prototype-fast-reactor-0209147.html



    Russia has completed the design for the BRES-300 lead cooled fast neutron breeder reactor.    Russia is the world leader in
    such designs and has had lead-bismuth cooled reactors on its nuclear submarines.   But don't bother looking this up on wiki where some
    experimental design from Belgium that has not been built yet gets most of the attention.

    The advantage of using lead as a coolant is that it boils 1740 Celsius.   In other words, it is physically impossible to have a meltdown since the
    passive cooling will never let the fuel assembly get anywhere near this temperature.   Sodium coolant is OK, but it has a much lower boiling point.

    http://www.crines.titech.ac.jp/projects/gif/2_1_4.pdf

    Lead is transparent to neutrons so it is the ideal coolant for a fast breeder reactor.

    Owing to the low neutron moderation by heavy lead, it is possible
    to expand the fuel lattice without affecting the reactor neutronics,
    to increase the coolant flow section in fuel assemblies, and to
    raise the level of power removed by natural lead circulation. The
    lead circuit itself giving off its heat continuously to naturally
    circulating air and thereby to the atmosphere, will never be
    overheated by residual heat.

    Is it true, spent rods and depleted uranium can be put in front of a reactor and become useful again? Maybe this will have it's uses if the START treaty falls apart. attack

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  kvs on Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:54 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Is it true, spent rods and depleted uranium can be put in front of a reactor and become useful again? Maybe this will have it's uses if the START treaty falls apart. attack

    That is the whole idea behind a breeder reactor. Spent fuel is reprocessed and placed together with fresh fuel rods. Over a period of time it is enriched by neutron absorption. For example "useless" Uranium 238 becomes Plutonium 239. This really is the modern equivalent of alchemy. But we are not going to be breeding gold from lead anytime soon Smile

    As noted in the PDF I linked, breeder reactors with closed fuel cycles get 100 times more energy out of a kilogram of Uranium ore than conventional single cycle reactors. There is also much less and much shorter lived waste from breeders. Breeder reactors can burn the so-called "waste" piling up in the obsolete reactors deployed around the world today.

    Breeder reactors give Russia nuclear energy independence due to its lack of large Uranium reserves Smile

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:42 am

    kvs wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Is it true, spent rods and depleted uranium can be put in front of a reactor and become useful again? Maybe this will have it's uses if the START treaty falls apart. attack

    That is the whole idea behind a breeder reactor.  Spent fuel is reprocessed and placed together with fresh fuel rods.   Over a period of time it is enriched by neutron absorption.   For example "useless" Uranium 238 becomes Plutonium 239.   This really is the modern equivalent of alchemy.   But we are not going to be breeding gold from lead anytime soon Smile

    As noted in the PDF I linked, breeder reactors with closed fuel cycles get 100 times more energy out of a kilogram of Uranium ore than conventional single cycle reactors.   There is also much less and much shorter lived waste from breeders.   Breeder reactors can burn the so-called "waste" piling up in the obsolete reactors deployed around the world today.  

    Breeder reactors give Russia nuclear energy independence due to its lack of large Uranium reserves Smile

    It's interesting that the new breeder reactors Russia is developing has many of the same advantages as LFTR reactors have (using spent rods as fuel, exponentially better fuel efficiency, exponentially smaller amounts of waste created), now it makes a lot of sense that the Russians chose this path over LFTR, as this path should still allow the capability to produce warheads if deemed necessary (for better or worse that is something that LFTR's are not capable of).

    BTW you mentioned about problems with Russia's uranium reserves, I believe I read somewhere that Russia still maintains an enriched uranium stockpile to produce 40,000 warheads rapidly. Whether that claim is accurate Russia is also a significant member of the Eurasian Customs Union, and so is Kazakhstan (also a CSTO member) the world leading uranium producing country (which produces nearly twice the amount of uranium ore as the second largest producer, Canada), who's President Nazarbayev was the guy who first proposed the Customs Union, so no worries of uranium shortage either way. russia

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  Mike E on Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:36 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Is it true, spent rods and depleted uranium can be put in front of a reactor and become useful again? Maybe this will have it's uses if the START treaty falls apart. attack

    That is the whole idea behind a breeder reactor.  Spent fuel is reprocessed and placed together with fresh fuel rods.   Over a period of time it is enriched by neutron absorption.   For example "useless" Uranium 238 becomes Plutonium 239.   This really is the modern equivalent of alchemy.   But we are not going to be breeding gold from lead anytime soon Smile

    As noted in the PDF I linked, breeder reactors with closed fuel cycles get 100 times more energy out of a kilogram of Uranium ore than conventional single cycle reactors.   There is also much less and much shorter lived waste from breeders.   Breeder reactors can burn the so-called "waste" piling up in the obsolete reactors deployed around the world today.  

    Breeder reactors give Russia nuclear energy independence due to its lack of large Uranium reserves Smile

    It's interesting that the new breeder reactors Russia is developing has many of the same advantages as LFTR reactors have (using spent rods as fuel, exponentially better fuel efficiency, exponentially smaller amounts of waste created), now it makes a lot of sense that the Russians chose this path over LFTR, as this path should still allow the capability to produce warheads if deemed necessary (for better or worse that is something that LFTR's are not capable of).

    BTW you mentioned about problems with Russia's uranium reserves, I believe I read somewhere that Russia still maintains an enriched uranium stockpile to produce 40,000 warheads rapidly. Whether that claim is accurate Russia is also a significant member of the Eurasian Customs Union, and so is Kazakhstan (also a CSTO member) the world leading uranium producing country (which produces nearly twice the amount of uranium ore as the second largest producer, Canada), who's President Nazarbayev was the guy who first proposed the Customs Union, so no worries of uranium shortage either way. russia

    All of them? LFTR's still have big advantages over the lead-cooled designs... In fact, lead-cooling was hugely researched in the 50's by the West, but it was deemed to be of too much trouble to be of any real worth... It is an improvement over modern-day designs, but LFTR's? I don't see why Russia would care for that ability, as they already have the capability to produce thermonuclear devices by the truck load... - That is a somewhat well-known conspiracy theory here in MURICA', that we didn't go for LFTR's because they couldn't refine nuclear material into weapons-grade "yellow cake". If this is true or not I don't know... (LFTR's should be much safer and more efficient, never mind cleaner than lead-cooled designs. There are many other advantages as well.)

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:05 am

    Mike E wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Is it true, spent rods and depleted uranium can be put in front of a reactor and become useful again? Maybe this will have it's uses if the START treaty falls apart. attack

    That is the whole idea behind a breeder reactor.  Spent fuel is reprocessed and placed together with fresh fuel rods.   Over a period of time it is enriched by neutron absorption.   For example "useless" Uranium 238 becomes Plutonium 239.   This really is the modern equivalent of alchemy.   But we are not going to be breeding gold from lead anytime soon Smile

    As noted in the PDF I linked, breeder reactors with closed fuel cycles get 100 times more energy out of a kilogram of Uranium ore than conventional single cycle reactors.   There is also much less and much shorter lived waste from breeders.   Breeder reactors can burn the so-called "waste" piling up in the obsolete reactors deployed around the world today.  

    Breeder reactors give Russia nuclear energy independence due to its lack of large Uranium reserves Smile

    It's interesting that the new breeder reactors Russia is developing has many of the same advantages as LFTR reactors have (using spent rods as fuel, exponentially better fuel efficiency, exponentially smaller amounts of waste created), now it makes a lot of sense that the Russians chose this path over LFTR, as this path should still allow the capability to produce warheads if deemed necessary (for better or worse that is something that LFTR's are not capable of).

    BTW you mentioned about problems with Russia's uranium reserves, I believe I read somewhere that Russia still maintains an enriched uranium stockpile to produce 40,000 warheads rapidly. Whether that claim is accurate Russia is also a significant member of the Eurasian Customs Union, and so is Kazakhstan (also a CSTO member) the world leading uranium producing country (which produces nearly twice the amount of uranium ore as the second largest producer, Canada), who's President Nazarbayev was the guy who first proposed the Customs Union, so no worries of uranium shortage either way. russia

    All of them? LFTR's still have big advantages over the lead-cooled designs... In fact, lead-cooling was hugely researched in the 50's by the West, but it was deemed to be of too much trouble to be of any real worth... It is an improvement over modern-day designs, but LFTR's? I don't see why Russia would care for that ability, as they already have the capability to produce thermonuclear devices by the truck load... - That is a somewhat well-known conspiracy theory here in MURICA', that we didn't go for LFTR's because they couldn't refine nuclear material into weapons-grade "yellow cake". If this is true or not I don't know... (LFTR's should be much safer and more efficient, never mind cleaner than lead-cooled designs. There are many other advantages as well.)

    The main case would be that they can take a bunch of waste material, and make it useful for rapid warhead making over night if the need arose. There's no guarantee that START will last forever.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:37 am

    The Russians have made a lot of deals over the last two and a half decades with the US to dispose of nuclear material from withdrawn nuclear weapons where the material is sold to the US to create uranium for nuclear civilian power production.

    the US on the other hand has been stockpiling its old warheads.

    On the balance of things I would say the US has far more weapons grade material and much greater means to produce more right now.

    With the introduction of fast breeder reactors however Russia will suddenly get rather more electrical energy production capacity and an opportunity to no only make more fuel or weapons grade material for itself, but also rather more fuel for all the new nuclear power clients it is creating.

    A quick rummage through this website shows large numbers of new countries looking at nuclear energy and Russia is their source... having the ability to supply fuel and process it rapidly makes a lot of sense.

    As well as the capacity to make lots of little tactical nuclear warheads for all those thousands of land attack cruise missiles that could be entering service from 2015 onwards on all those new and upgraded ships and subs.


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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  navyfield on Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:54 pm

    this would be reasonable claim if russia had those ships ,but it doesnt nor it will have them in numbers for a loong time, but like you said their slow contruction time is not important Laughing ....

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:10 am

    this would be reasonable claim if russia had those ships ,but it doesnt nor it will have them in numbers for a loong time, but like you said their slow contruction time is not important


    Hahahahahaahahahahaahhahahhahhaahhhahahahhaahhahahha...

    So you comment is that my prediction that production and upgrade of ships and subs for the Russian Navy will start to increase after 2015 would be reasonable if the Russian Navy already had those ships.

    So production and upgrades wont increase numbers after 2015 because they have not been produced now in 2014 already.

    A whiny girl time traveller...


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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:52 pm

    I am sorry if any missed any of the previous posts in this thread. But I would like to know about Russia's achievement in the field of renewable energy, aside from nuclear reactor.

    And the field of environment, carbon output, and similar things, too.

    After all, oil and uranium do not have unlimited amount, and I don't think the thaw of Arctic ice is good for any country with coast, including Russia.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  Mike E on Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:40 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:I am sorry if any missed any of the previous posts in this thread. But I would like to know about Russia's achievement in the field of renewable energy, aside from nuclear reactor.

    And the field of environment, carbon output, and similar things, too.

    After all, oil and uranium do not have unlimited amount, and I don't think the thaw of Arctic ice is good for any country with coast, including Russia.
    I know they have an accomplished hydro sector, but in all honesty that isn't my profession... - Your best bet would be to research on energy in Russia or something like that.

    Energy sources should also have that info...

    When it comes to NUCLEER', the "lack" (keep in mind that have large uranium reserves - said to last them a decade) of nuclear material is yet another that Thorium is the smarter option...

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:44 am

    Breeder reactors create very little actual waste and can be used to turn spent fuel rods from conventional reactors back into unspent fuel rods that can be reused...

    Perhaps instead of looking at fantastic solutions like Thorium, you should perhaps read a bit more about Breeder reactors... the Russians have clearly made their choice.


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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:15 pm


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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:20 pm

    Bravo to russian scientists Very Happy !http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/09/ultrahard-fullerite-is-almost-twice-as.html

    Novel Carbon Materials in Troitsk, the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology (MIPT), National University of Science and Technology (MISiS), and Moscow State Univ. (MSU) have developed a new method for the synthesis of an ultrahard material that exceeds diamond in hardness. An article recently published in the journal Carbon describes in detail a method that allows for the synthesis of ultrahard fullerite, a polymer composed of fullerenes, or spherical molecules made of carbon atoms.

    In their work, the scientists note that diamond hasn’t been the hardest material for some time now. Natural diamonds have a hardness of nearly 150 GPa, but ultrahard fullerite has surpassed diamond to become first on the list of hardest materials with values that range from 150 to 300 GPa.

    BTW hows the situation in russia with carbon nanotube production? I know China is starting large scale research and production of it while the US is planning to use it in the military. IMO it would be a huge leap forward for the russian R&D department to start this too, giving both industrial and military benefits.

    The future of materials isn't mining for more naturally occuring rare elements but but synthetic materials of low atomic number elements.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:Breeder reactors create very little actual waste and can be used to turn spent fuel rods from conventional reactors back into unspent fuel rods that can be reused...

    Perhaps instead of looking at fantastic solutions like Thorium, you should perhaps read a bit more about Breeder reactors... the Russians have clearly made their choice.
    What about a thorium-breeder combination? What a Face Sort of like a multifuel engine?

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  kvs on Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:12 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Breeder reactors create very little actual waste and can be used to turn spent fuel rods from conventional reactors back into unspent fuel rods that can be reused...

    Perhaps instead of looking at fantastic solutions like Thorium, you should perhaps read a bit more about Breeder reactors... the Russians have clearly made their choice.
    What about a thorium-breeder combination? What a Face  Sort of like a multifuel engine?

    Reactors using Thorium are breeder reactors. In the Thorium reactor process it is converted to Uranium 233, which is an unstable
    isotope and can sustain a reaction. The attraction of Thorium is that there is about three times more of it that can be mined compared
    to Uranium.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  kvs on Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:44 am

    KommisarBojanchev must have seen this information elsewhere,

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/next-generation/lockheed-martin-claims-fusion-power-in-10-years-should-we-believe-them-17318225?click=pm_latest

    The video at the linked site spends way too much time talking about the benefits of fusion energy and almost no
    time as to the concept that LM thinks will work when all the others have so far failed.

    It looks like the LM fusion reactor is a tokomak variant and they are trying to get high temperatures (in the hundreds
    of millions of degrees) to overcome Coulomb repulsion.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:00 pm

    The attraction of Thorium is that there is about three times more of it that can be mined compared
    to Uranium.

    Why bother when a standard breeder reactor uses Uranium, as used in the reactors the Russians are selling around the world?

    A current breeder reactor can be used to reprocess spend uranium rods from exported reactors and sent back to clients to be reused... recycling Uranium means it doesn't matter how much there is of it...


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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  kvs on Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:11 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The attraction of Thorium is that there is about three times more of it that can be mined compared
    to Uranium.

    Why bother when a standard breeder reactor uses Uranium, as used in the reactors the Russians are selling around the world?

    A current breeder reactor can be used to reprocess spend uranium rods from exported reactors and sent back to clients to be reused... recycling Uranium means it doesn't matter how much there is of it...

    India is pushing the Thorium reactor angle since it has large deposits. But you are right, with breeder reactors you get over 50 times
    more energy from Uranium compared to convention single cycle reactors.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:52 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The attraction of Thorium is that there is about three times more of it that can be mined compared
    to Uranium.

    Why bother when a standard breeder reactor uses Uranium, as used in the reactors the Russians are selling around the world?

    A current breeder reactor can be used to reprocess spend uranium rods from exported reactors and sent back to clients to be reused... recycling Uranium means it doesn't matter how much there is of it...

    Thorium and MSR's in general have dozens upon dozens of other advantages as well. However, the ease of mining and producing reactor-ready Thorium is its main attraction. It is cheaper, will last far into the future, and shouldn't experience shortages.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:57 am

    Mike E wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    The attraction of Thorium is that there is about three times more of it that can be mined compared
    to Uranium.

    Why bother when a standard breeder reactor uses Uranium, as used in the reactors the Russians are selling around the world?

    A current breeder reactor can be used to reprocess spend uranium rods from exported reactors and sent back to clients to be reused... recycling Uranium means it doesn't matter how much there is of it...

    Thorium and MSR's in general have dozens upon dozens of other advantages as well. However, the ease of mining and producing reactor-ready Thorium is its main attraction. It is cheaper, will last far into the future, and shouldn't experience shortages.

    Heavy water is more copious, but the problem is that fusion thermonuclear power plant is not ready... yet.

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:35 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    The attraction of Thorium is that there is about three times more of it that can be mined compared
    to Uranium.

    Why bother when a standard breeder reactor uses Uranium, as used in the reactors the Russians are selling around the world?

    A current breeder reactor can be used to reprocess spend uranium rods from exported reactors and sent back to clients to be reused... recycling Uranium means it doesn't matter how much there is of it...

    Thorium and MSR's in general have dozens upon dozens of other advantages as well. However, the ease of mining and producing reactor-ready Thorium is its main attraction. It is cheaper, will last far into the future, and shouldn't experience shortages.

    Heavy water is more copious, but the problem is that fusion thermonuclear power plant is not ready... yet.
    MSR's are by no means complex... They could be developed and produced within two decades tops. The problem is that they are receiving very little funding, and when they are, it is always within a single country and not a group.

    Fusion is still a dream IMHO. LM's recent "announcement" has already been debunked. If Fusion is developed, I'd like to see dense plasma fusion more than its alternatives. - Focus Fusion is an interesting idea, although very controversial...

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    Re: Νew Technologies and Innovation Development in Russia

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:50 am

    They could be developed and produced within two decades tops.

    They are an undeveloped technology... fast breeder reactors are in operation in Russia now.

    Unless Russia has a lot of Thorium and a real shortage of Uranium why invest in such a similar technology?

    Russia can keep the existing breeder reactors for itself and use them to process spent fuel rods from export partners to reprocess into fuel again and sell them back to their clients... a double win... normally when you take back spent fuel rods you have to dispose of them... in this case they can re-enrich them and sell them back to the client. Not only that in times of tension they have the potential to enrich large amounts of Uranium to weapons grade quality if they need warheads fast.

    Win win situation it seems to me, with no more investment costs or risk.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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