Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Share

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:52 am

    True, but then the MBT is an offensive weapon... for defence layers of ATGMs and RPGs and Helicopters armed with ATGMs and of course the sensible use of mine fields and anti tank structures is cheaper and easier to put together and maintain.

    MBTs can be incorporated into those defences as mobile gun platforms too, but they are not as critical... in fact often towed guns prevent lines of defence from moving when put under pressure...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:11 am

    True... - That being said, even the most offensive weapons should have defensive capability.

    d_taddei2
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 748
    Points : 908
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    Russia and the T-55

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:25 pm

    Hi all, does anyone know if Russia still has T-55 tanks in storage/reserve????? and if so how many and what are they likely to do with them?

    I think if they have they would be ideal to upgrade like Eygpt has done (Ramses) which brings them up closer to modern standards and sell them to poor countries or countries with a small budget. I know some people will say the have the T-72 to sell but surely it makes sense to get rid of the older stuff first.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:52 am

    The main problem is that while a T-55 is relatively cheap the old T-72s are also fairly cheap too and the costs of upgrading a T-55 is very similar to the costs of an upgraded T-72 because all the expensive bits you add to a T-55 are similar to the expensive bits you add to a T-72 to upgrade it.

    If you don't already have the T-55s it doesn't make sense to buy them and then upgrade them, because for a little bit more you can do the same with old model t-72s and end up with a much better protected vehicle.

    A late model T-72 actually has very good base armour... if you add ARENA and some Relikt you actually have a fairly well protected tank.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Morpheus Eberhardt
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1967
    Points : 2092
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:07 am

    Buy T-72s and convert T-55s to BTR-Ts.

    d_taddei2
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 748
    Points : 908
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:42 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Buy T-72s and convert T-55s to BTR-Ts.


    I agree, its shame i thought the BTR-T was a good idea, but it seems the T-72 has taken that role with the BMP-T, i still think the chassis still has some use, i know some countries who had the SA-3/ S-125 upgraded and while doing so had some mounted on top of T-55's. I like what Eygpt has done with theirs. They could be turned into TOS-2 and sold to foreign markets the T-55 chassis would be ideal for poorer nations as it highly likely they still have them in service and could easily repair them all they would have to learn is how to operate and look after the TOS part.

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Mike E on Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:37 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Buy T-72s and convert T-55s to BTR-Ts.


    I agree, its shame i thought the BTR-T was a good idea, but it seems the T-72 has taken that role with the BMP-T, i still think the chassis still has some use, i know some countries who had the SA-3/ S-125 upgraded and while doing so had some mounted on top of T-55's. I like what Eygpt has done with theirs. They could be turned into TOS-2 and sold to foreign markets the T-55 chassis would be ideal for poorer nations as it highly likely they still have them in service and could easily repair them all they would have to learn is how to operate and look after the TOS part.
    The T-55 is a great simple chassis for just about any kind of tracked vehicle, as is the T-72. I think these older chassis should be used for BTR-T's and TOS's etc.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15490
    Points : 16197
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:58 am

    The Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will take over every vehicle role... from heavy BTR-T (which is the APC and IFV variants of the armata) to BMPT (again armata) and all the other vehicles in the unit will be armata based in the heavy units.

    If you have T-55s in abundance I would split the upgrades to include some heavy APCs and some tank destroyers... with a T-72 turret with a 57mm main gun and Kornet EM missiles.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:00 am

    GarryB wrote:The Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will take over every vehicle role... from heavy BTR-T (which is the APC and IFV variants of the armata) to BMPT (again armata) and all the other vehicles in the unit will be armata based in the heavy units.

    If you have T-55s in abundance I would split the upgrades to include some heavy APCs and some tank destroyers... with a T-72 turret with a 57mm main gun and Kornet EM missiles.
    Well meaning russia has once again best Tank,IFV, APC well and BMPT which is unique anyway, not to mention IFV was already best.

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  TR1 on Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:27 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will take over every vehicle role... from heavy BTR-T (which is the APC and IFV variants of the armata) to BMPT (again armata) and all the other vehicles in the unit will be armata based in the heavy units.

    If you have T-55s in abundance I would split the upgrades to include some heavy APCs and some tank destroyers... with a T-72 turret with a 57mm main gun and Kornet EM missiles.
    Well meaning russia has once again best Tank,IFV, APC well and BMPT which is unique anyway, not to mention IFV was already best.

    I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

    Mike E
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2789
    Points : 2853
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Mike E on Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:00 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The Armata and Kurganets and Boomerang and Typhoon will take over every vehicle role... from heavy BTR-T (which is the APC and IFV variants of the armata) to BMPT (again armata) and all the other vehicles in the unit will be armata based in the heavy units.

    If you have T-55s in abundance I would split the upgrades to include some heavy APCs and some tank destroyers... with a T-72 turret with a 57mm main gun and Kornet EM missiles.
    Well meaning russia has once again best Tank,IFV, APC well and BMPT which is unique anyway, not to mention IFV was already best.

    I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".
    TBH the next gen of armored vehicles is coming at a terribly slow rate. 

    The US has the A3 Abrams and nothing even close to advanced development to replace that. Along with what is basically recycled crap to replace the legendary M113 etc. I mean they are still talking about a 80 ton Bradley-replacement if that tells you anything...

    Germany has been talking about a Leo 3 but they seem to be prefer just upgrading the Leo 2 chassis. All their current vehicles except for maybe the Leo 2 will be in service till the 30's at least (Boxer, Puma etc are inter-gen).

    And most other countries are doing the same thing... The Armata family should be the first true "next gen family" of armored vehicles. Kinda like the T-80 of next gen if you get what I mean.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:16 am

    TR1 wrote:
    I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

    They don't have to replace every single BMP2 and T-72, no country could afford replacing 7000 tanks with such new vehicle that will burn through 40 years military budget for procurement.

    collegeboy16
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1207
    Points : 1234
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:26 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    TBH the next gen of armored vehicles is coming at a terribly slow rate. 

    The US has the A3 Abrams and nothing even close to advanced development to replace that. Along with what is basically recycled crap to replace the legendary M113 etc. I mean they are still talking about a 80 ton Bradley-replacement if that tells you anything...

    Germany has been talking about a Leo 3 but they seem to be prefer just upgrading the Leo 2 chassis. All their current vehicles except for maybe the Leo 2 will be in service till the 30's at least (Boxer, Puma etc are inter-gen).

    everyone with designs for next gen AFVs are gonna be looking real hard at what the Russians will field in the coming years, and so there is real pressure on the them not to fck it up- any mistake made is another potential advantage for those taking notes.

    ive read about the leo 3 being a french-german joint effort, leoclec or sumthin. tho whatever they produce would cost like an attack helo

    Mike E wrote:
    And most other countries are doing the same thing... The Armata family should be the first true "next gen family" of armored vehicles. Kinda like the T-80 of next gen if you get what I mean.
    more like T-72, if talking about MBT which is sanitized version of the monster that is T-95.

    d_taddei2
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 748
    Points : 908
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:56 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

    They don't have to replace every single BMP2 and T-72, no country could afford replacing 7000 tanks with such new vehicle that will burn through 40 years military budget for procurement.


    exactly the T-72, BMP-2, BTR 80A/82 will be around for some time yet,
    i would imagine they will replaced units using older equipment first.
    i.e units still using BMP-1 first, theirs roughly 650 of them still in service, and 10,000 in reserve, Russia really needs to start selling these off to poorer nations.
    BMP-2 about 1,850 in service and 6,500 in reserve.
    1,100 BTR 80/80A/82 in service. Some BTR 60 and 70's are still in service in small numbers, nearly 4,000 BTR 60's in reserve these really need to sold of soon.
    T-72's in service roughly 2,200 (of various variants) and 8,000 in reserve.
    As for T-80 these are slowly being phased out 1,400 in service, 3,000 in reserve, these should be sold off i think and just keep T-72 in reserve.
    And of course the T-90 and BMP-3 roughly 700 of each in service will still be service for a long time.
    And MT-LB theirs roughly 1,500 in service, and 5,000 in reserve, these will also be replaced at a slow rate. And i haven't even covered the replacement of artilley units and the BMD's in airbourne units.

    Walther von Oldenburg
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 895
    Points : 952
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 25
    Location : Oldenburg

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:20 pm

    How far can T-55 modernization go? This tank is very old but maybe by doing heavy armor upgrades and replacing the turret with 4x 30-40mm guns and Kornet launchers it woud make a decent infantry support vehicle.

    There is a fine modernization called T-55M6 that replaces the old 100mm gun with the 125mm gun of T-72 and brings protection to T-80U level:

    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3599
    Points : 3634
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:50 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:How far can T-55 modernization go? This tank is very old but maybe by doing heavy armor upgrades and replacing the turret with 4x 30-40mm guns and Kornet launchers it woud make a decent infantry support vehicle.

    There is a fine modernization called T-55M6 that replaces the old 100mm gun with the 125mm gun of T-72 and brings protection to T-80U level:

    You understand that the tank you have posted has a stretched chassis and 6th wheel? You also understand that there is probably nothing left of the T55. It's a T72 turret, engine and autoloader (hence the stretching of the chassis). That's something I have hard time understanding. At that point i'd buy surplus T72's.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    How far can T-55 modernization go?

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:22 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:How far can T-55 modernization go? This tank is very old but maybe by doing heavy armor upgrades and replacing the turret with 4x 30-40mm guns and Kornet launchers it woud make a decent infantry support vehicle.

    There is a fine modernization called T-55M6 that replaces the old 100mm gun with the 125mm gun of T-72 and brings protection to T-80U level:

    You understand that the tank you have posted has a stretched chassis and 6th wheel? You also understand that there is probably nothing left of the T55. It's a T72 turret, engine and autoloader (hence the stretching of the chassis). That's something I have hard time understanding. At that point i'd buy surplus T72's.

    Pretty much that. The only genuine T-55 that reached its most final form of modernisation and a very deep one was AGM model and at that point it was already better to buy T-72S.

    d_taddei2
    Captain
    Captain

    Posts : 748
    Points : 908
    Join date : 2013-05-11
    Location : Scotland UK

    T-55 upgrades.

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:48 am

    I think firstly the T-55 deserves big thank you and praise despite its age it has proven invaluable to the Syrian Arab Army, and the mainstay MBT in the conflict, i like how they have put simple upgrades liked caged armour/rocket screens, even then filling the cages with sandbags is simple but effective.

    I have always said that what the Egytians and Iranians did with theirs was fantastic upgrading them to Ramses II(Egyptian) and T-72Z(Iranian), although still no match for T-90 etc, this is still a capable tank which would be ideal against IFV, buildings etc, although in numbers even newer MBT would have to watch out.

    The T-54/T-55 chassis of course has been used for many uses, such as ZSU-23-4, ZSU-57-2, bridge layer, recovery, etc etc, But there so much more uses it could have and has had than the Soviet uses. The Israeli converted them into heavy APC The Achzarit which was good. Then you have various countries have mounted Sa-2, SA-3, and Sa-5 on T-55 chassis yet again another good use.

    Then there was the BTR-T which was a great idea a real shame these upgrade kits haven't been bought yet. Other uses i think would be good would be
    are the following:

    T-55 chassis with mounted with Twin barrel self loading 120mm mortar turret (a bit like Finnish/Swedish AMOS)

    T-55 chassis with mounted with single barrel self loading 160mm mortar turret (twin barrel would be nice)

    T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading D-44 85mm artillery guns

    T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading M1942 (ZiS-3) 76mm artillery guns

    T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading D-48 85mm anti-tank guns.

    T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading D-30 122-mm howitzer

    T-55 chassis with mounted with twin barrel self loading M-46 130mm artillery gun (now this would be nice)   Very Happy  

    you could also mount 4x M1939 (61-K) 37mm anti aircraft guns or even 4x S-60 57mm in the same sort of style as the ZSU-23-4, just imagine if you have a ZSU-23-4 upgraded with 4x S-60 57mm and 4 SA-24 or Verba now this would be scary  Twisted Evil

    but any of these upgrades could also be mounted on the highly versatile MT-LB, or even older chassis of T-34 a good use of T-34 in storage. You could also mount these on T-62, T-64, BMP-1, BMP-2 and BTR-50 and some could be mounted on BTR 60, 70, 80. Syrians and Cubans already use T-34 as self propelled artillery chassis for D-30 and M-46.

    the good thing about all these is the use of older equipment, all the above are pretty useful, just imagine a twin barrelled M-46 130mm shells raining down on the enemy,  Twisted Evil

    I know some might think the older stuff to be of no use but even twin barrelled self loading 76mm and 85mm artillery is still pretty useful against ground troops and light armour, a group of 12 vehicles they could fire for just 1 minute then move (shoot and scoot tactic).  
    see the following details for each gun and see what you think,

    Zis-3, 76mm, range=13km, rate of fire 25 rounds a minute, (so with twin barrel thats 50 rounds a minute)

    D-44, 85mm, range=15km, rate of fire 20 rounds a minute, (so with twin barrel thats 40 rounds a minute)

    so when you take this into account and then if you used them in groups of 12 vehicles thats a pretty impressive 600 x76mm shells in 1 mintue, and
    480 x85mm shells in 1 minute, not bad really and against light armour or troops out in the open this is almost as deadly as BM-21, and this is cheaper to fire, could be a useful system to provide instant artillery support for ground troops, i know when i was in the forces artillery wasn't always available using these would provide them with there own dedicated artillery, and of course they could if needed be used in direct fire role. (changed your mind yet lol)

    as for the other artillery systems and Mortar systems the twin 120mm and single/twin 160mm mortars and twin artillery guns 122mm and 130mm
    i dont think i even have to mention the devastation that this would have.

    and as for the twin D-48 85mm anti tank gun this would be ideal for taking out IFV, as well against buildings and providing direct fire support for ground troops. I remember a T-34-85 in May 1995 a Serb T-34-85 attacked an UNPROFOR outpost/Bunker manned by British Royal Engineers in Bosnia, injuring them.

    So whats your views on these sytems and do you have any useful upgrades either on T-54/T-55 or other platforms such as T-34, MT-LB, BMP, BTR, Trucks, tanks etc etc.


    When i was in Cambodia i saw a destroyed T-54/T-55 armed with 16 tube BM-14 (140mm) see pic below.


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : pic)

    Sponsored content

    Re: T-55 and BTR-T your views

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:14 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:14 am