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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

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    nemrod
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  nemrod on Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:27 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    A waste of time and money ?...Hardly, the technology developed for the Type 30 engines alone would be worth the program cost, fitting Mig-31BM's with a fully developed Type 30 engines as wells as the nose mounted X-band AESA, and the leading edge L-band AESA could increase the useful lifespan of those birds by additional 20 years if their airframes are kept in good shape.

    The great question is :
    Can Russia afford it ? In my view, Russia cannot afford it, neither US nowadays. You will developp a fighter, where only 30% of its fleet is ready in the best case, but in the reality around 10% are ready. F-22 is optimized only against poor third world countries, not against Russia, China or India.
    Around 50 billions $ -it is not small amount of money, it is not nothing. - for the Pak T-50. Moreover, the AESA radar technology is not US origin, it is japanese origin. The PESA radar if I remember was soviet origin. Why must Russia follow US failling path ?
    Thrust engine if I remember, Russia is still the leader, no use to mention air to air missiles, the final decisive moment in fight is still dogfight, regarding that Russia, is not the last.
    Why will have Russia to follow the same F-22, and F-35's disastrous path ?

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:39 am

    nemrod wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    A waste of time and money ?...Hardly, the technology developed for the Type 30 engines alone would be worth the program cost, fitting Mig-31BM's with a fully developed Type 30 engines as wells as the nose mounted X-band AESA, and the leading edge L-band AESA could increase the useful lifespan of those birds by additional 20 years if their airframes are kept in good shape.

    The great question is :
    Can Russia afford it ? In my view, Russia cannot afford it, neither US nowadays. You will developp a fighter, where only 30% of its fleet is ready in the best case, but in the reality around 10% are ready. F-22 is optimized only against poor third world countries, not against Russia, China or India.
    Around 50 billions $ -it is not small amount of money, it is not nothing. - for the Pak T-50. Moreover, the AESA radar technology is not US origin, it is japanese origin. The PESA radar if I remember was soviet origin. Why must Russia follow US failling path ?
    Thrust engine if I remember, Russia is still the leader, no use to mention air to air missiles, the final decisive moment in fight is still dogfight, regarding that Russia, is not the last.
    Why will have Russia to follow the same F-22, and F-35's disastrous path ?

    What makes you think the PAK FA program is automatically heading towards disaster? Why don't we just look at satellite guided warheads: The U.S. developed GPS guidance for warheads first, and they ended up creating shells that cost $50-80,000 per shell, while Russia created GLONASS guided shells that only cost additional $1,000 per shell. Thats easily 50-80 times cheaper than the U.S. equivalent, and the PAK FA is designed to be stealthy, but not to the point of sacrificing all other aspects of the fighter plane. Do you really think that Su-35 just developed out of nowhere? It's a product that took several decades of experimentation and solutions, to develop the plane in to what it is today. Lets just look at aircrafts developed in the 1950's and then compare it to now. Over time the problems with stealth planes will have been overcome with smarter and better solutions.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:27 am

    Can Russia afford it ? In my view, Russia cannot afford it, neither US nowadays. You will developp a fighter, where only 30% of its fleet is ready in the best case, but in the reality around 10% are ready. F-22 is optimized only against poor third world countries, not against Russia, China or India.

    A better question is can they afford not to continue to develop new technology?

    Without programs like the PAK FA they would not be working on data fusion and communications technology and by the way that article is bullshit... even Armata, Typhoon, boomerang, and kurganets will have data fusion... the Mi-28N and Ka-52 have data fusion, even the MiG-35 and Su-35 have data fusion.

    the main mistake is thinking that the PAK FA is the F-22.

    The Russians are not going to build 1,000 of these planes... most likely they will end up with 250 to 300 at the most, more likely less.

    Moreover, the AESA radar technology is not US origin, it is japanese origin. The PESA radar if I remember was soviet origin. Why must Russia follow US failling path ?

    AESA can do a few things that PESA can't. Both are a huge step forward with electronic scanning being near instantaneous so that widely separated targets can be continuously 'scanned' with no mechanical delay.

    Why will have Russia to follow the same F-22, and F-35's disastrous path ?

    The Russians aren't stupid... they saw the mistakes the US made and so far they are not repeating them.

    Weapon system development is measure/countermeasure. stealth isn't perfect but in some areas it makes things harder for the enemy... so if it is sensible and affordable it makes sense.

    Russia can't afford not to be at the forefront of aeronautical technology...


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:39 pm

    Something is happening thumbsup


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  mack8 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:17 pm

    Nice, it's said to be static test airframe T-50-7. Looks like it has metal cowlings for the engines. Wonder what other changes it has.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:22 pm

    mack8 wrote:Nice, it's said to be static test airframe T-50-7. Looks like it has metal cowlings for the engines. Wonder what other changes it has.

    and some more news from bmpd blog

    In Zhukovsky delivered new prototype T-50 ground tests

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:56 am

    Rolling Eyes When they developed RAM for the B-2, obviously it was a aircraft specific RAM

    Nope.

    When they develop RAM it is not for the aircraft it is to be painted onto, it is for the radars that will be used against the aircraft.

    A B-2 has RAM designed to reduce the performance of high frequency radar, but they can't paint it on thick enough to effect longer wave radar signals.

    With larger aircraft the shaping can be used to a degree, but very long wave radar don't even discriminate shape so shaping and mm thick RAM is irrelevant.


    Radar absorbers are loosely classified as "resonant" or "broadband". Resonant RAM is effective only for a discreet frequency or a set of discreet frequencies. Broadband RAM is effective over an entire band of frequencies.


    Which brings us back to... the point... development of the PAK FA can be applied to the existing fleet of aircraft... Rolling Eyes




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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:23 pm



    With English subtitles

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:35 pm

    Nice, now hopefully during this year Russia and India will come to understanding to advance the project to the next stage thumbsup

    Russia, India Complete Draft Project for Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:17 pm

    Russia and India have completed preliminary design fighter FGFA
    This was in the program "General Staff", "Russian news service," said Regional Director for International Cooperation of the United Aircraft Corporation Andrew Marshankin. According to him, "already have the documentation and understanding of the scope of the next stage of design."
    Other details regarding the export version FGFA representative of the KLA did not disclose, reports Lenta.ru. Meanwhile, Marshankin said that most likely the Indian version FGFA will double in contrast to the single Russian T-50. This need is due to the fact that "in the harsh conditions of modern warfare is extremely difficult to simultaneously maneuver and fire on the enemy."
    In the development of promising fighter FGFA involved a Russian company "Dry" and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. The share of India's participation in the project was set at 40 percent. Two-seater FGFA will be armed with the Indian guided missile Astra, and supersonic cruise missile "Brahmos" joint development with Russia.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:32 pm

    PAK-FA cannon being tested on Su-30SM

    Russian fifth-generation aircraft T-50 cannons will get better

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:03 am

    I would suspect that on the PAK FA the pilot just needs to lock the target and pull the trigger and manouver the aircraft. The sensors will detect when the cannon shells will hit the target and only fire the gun when a hit is a certainty... making the gun more effective than a close in AAM in many ways.

    (Note the MiG-29 already has this capability... and has had it since it entered service in the 1980s.)


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Kyo on Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:55 pm

    Russia and India have agreed to accelerate the implementation of the project to create a fifth generation fighter - media
    01/22/2015 18:14:45
    Delhi. January 22. Interfax-AVN - India questioned the feasibility of a new R & D project of the fifth-generation fighter, as this may lead to delays in timing of this aircraft into service.
    "India agreed to accelerate the implementation of the project to create a fifth generation fighter with Russia," - said the Indian news portal NDTV, Commenting the results of the visit of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in Delhi.
    According to the publication, in the course of negotiations, the Indian side expressed its doubts about the advisability of signing a contract to conduct R & D on new fifth-generation fighter, taking into account the fact that some of his prototypes - Single PAK FA - is already being tested in Russia.
    Under the contract signed in 2012, each party must make under $ 5.5 billion on research and development project, including the development, infrastructure, building prototypes and conducting their flight tests.
    NDTV also notes that India's Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar in the negotiations expressed their strong desire to take a new fighter for the Air Force in India much earlier than originally designated date of commencement of supply - 2024 - 2025 years.
    India plans to build 127 new fighter aircraft factory Aviation Corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in Nashik. The cost of the project to create a new fighter is estimated at $ 25 billion.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:40 am

    Upgraded 30-mm gun for the fighter T-50

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:49 am

    hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:03 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

    I'd kill to see that too, but let's be honest, it will not be anything intersting (aside from RAM application). We know how NIIPs AESA face looks like.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:59 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

    I'd kill to see that too, but let's be honest, it will not be anything intersting (aside from RAM application). We know how NIIPs AESA face looks like.

    Would be nice to see a PAKFA version of Vitebsk with DIRCM's that probably could also work as painters for targets for Morphei Anti Missile Missile capabilities.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:51 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:hmm any updates on PAKFA's avionics suite ?

    would love to hear more about PAKFA's AESA and perhaps image of PAKFA opening her nose Very Happy

    I'd kill to see that too, but let's be honest, it will not be anything intersting (aside from RAM application). We know how NIIPs AESA face looks like.

    Would be nice to see a PAKFA version of Vitebsk with DIRCM's that probably could also work as painters for targets for Morphei Anti Missile Missile capabilities.

    PAK-FA already had mockups/test articles of DIRCM, in the locations that otherwise were fitted with IRST/DAS like modules. Very intersting but it seems like they are serious about putting DIRCM on it from the start. Won't be Vitebsk though, something entirely new.

    EDIT: 101KS-O, wasn't it? Too lazy to check right now.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:08 am

    Date is fixed sealed and .... farely close Very Happy

    Air Force Commander: new fighters T-50 will enter the army from 2016

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:48 am

    Viktor wrote:Date is fixed sealed and .... farely close Very Happy

    Air Force Commander: new fighters T-50 will enter the army from 2016

    so that means that contract must be signed in 2015

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  szo on Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:23 pm

    T-50 for Iran and South Korea?


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:47 pm

    I really hope not, especially for South Korea which is US vassal, they will without doubt get their hands on it.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:24 pm

    Werewolf wrote:I really hope not, especially for South Korea which is US vassal, they will without doubt get their hands on it.

    I can see US Gov bribing an Indian pilot with 300 millions USD $ and a nice apartment in miami to defect with their Pak-FA to pakistan so they get their hands on it..  Historically US have stolen many Russian planes in the past to learn everything about its technology  and Russia do nothing to avoid that. So how much time it will take USA to steal a pak-fa?  no even 1 year.. after any foreign nation gets one.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:27 pm

    I won't take anything from Deviant art related to arms info really seriously.

    That chart above is clearly fan-art.

    Nonetheless some (perhaps) Lots of ppl out there will think it's real.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #1

    Post  Rmf on Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:48 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:I really hope not, especially for South Korea which is US vassal, they will without doubt get their hands on it.

    I can see US Gov bribing an Indian pilot with 300 millions USD $ and a nice apartment in miami to defect with their Pak-FA to pakistan so they get their hands on it..  Historically US have stolen many Russian planes in the past to learn everything about its technology  and Russia do nothing to avoid that. So how much time it will take USA to steal a pak-fa?  no even 1 year.. after any foreign nation gets one.
    so thats why it will be a dual -seater? Razz

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