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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

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    Firebird

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Firebird on Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I personally think that the western hud tends to overload the pilot with lots of informations he does not need - i hope Russians will not follow in American footsteps.
    The main goal of the technology in 5th gen fighters is to process information and display it in a simple way to the pilot while hiding non relevant information to prevent information overload

    They are working on helmet mounted displays both for fighters and helicopters and I suspect they will keep such things secret for the moment.

    I was also thinking that it would be much harder for a SAM to hit it at that height. Also whether key rival AAMs would have reduced or zero capability when the PAK FA is at max height. I know a fair number of missiles cant function that high up.
    And even the ones that do have very thin air to work with... this means blast waves of explosions are much less effective so fragmentation is relied on rather more for a kill. The thinner air means after burning up a lot of energy to climb up to those heights the small control surfaces of the missiles will have less bite in the air so will have reduce manouver capability... and also the height gives the pilot more time to react to an attack than if they were lower down.

    At 23km up there are no clouds to hide behind and no weather to be a problem either.

    [One problem with attacking such planes is that normal missiles cant function at that height.
    Missiles fast enough to get up to those heights  should have some method of manouvering at that height.

    Also keep in mind that a hypersonic bomber with people in it will not be able to turn much... remember that the g forces of a turn greatly increase with speed... a helicopter travelling at 150km/h might not be able to pull more than 2-3gs, while travelling at 1,500km per hour a sudden 90 degree turn might result in 200gs... if it was possible.

    Has there ever been a true fighter aircraft that used a full pressure g-suit?
    The Mig-25 and Mig-31 use a pressure suit... but very few real pressure suits are actually full pressure suits... one of the biggest problems with the Apollo-Soyuz docking was that they each operated at different pressures and that the connector had to stabilise each side so they could connect.

    Neither operated at full Earth sea level air pressure as the higher the pressure the stronger the pressure vessel needs to be, which adds weight and complicates breathing gasses used.

    BTW nice vids guys...
    Thanks for your info Gary. I'm thinking that for a missile to get that high up (from the air or ground) thats difficult. Especially when you consider how thin the air is up there.

    Add on the fact that the Pak fa is high up, it has extended range with its own missile strikes.

    It will be interesting to see how the Pak Fa and 5G Ru planes integrate with other new weaponry over the next 2 decades or so. Drones with AI, lasers, energy weapons, hypersonics. It will be a very different world from the Soviet era. I hope it can be made to pay in peacetime too...
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    Zivo

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Zivo on Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:03 am



    Practice for MAKS 2013?
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    nemrod

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  nemrod on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:05 pm

    Zivo wrote:

    Practice for MAKS 2013?
    This aircraft seems to be wonderfull, I hope, I hope this aircraft will honour its glorious ancestors as Mig-15, Mig-17, Mig-19, Mig-21, Mig-23, Mig-25, Mig-29, Mig-31, Su-15, Su-17, and Su-27's familly.
    I hope he will keep all its promesses.


    SU Pak T-50 cobra
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    Sujoy

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:50 am

    PAK FA Helmet-mounted display

    Scientific and Production Enterprise "Star" is developing a pilot helmet fighter T-50 (PAK FA) with the display on the glass. On this, as reported by "Interfax" , said CEO and chief designer of the NPP "Star" Sergei Pozdnyakov. According to him, the new helmet is developed on the basis of a protective helmet ZS-10.

    "Helmet in terms of suspension and convenient adjustment worked, you need to integrate the helmet display. This system makes the Ryazan Instrument Plant. Prototypes of us are now on », ─ Pozdnjakov said, adding that the" Star "will hold an ergonomic evaluation of the helmet, and centrifuge tests in the wind tunnel. The entire system will be sent to the assembly for flight tests in 2014.

    Earlier it was reported that the company "Radio-electronic technology" (KRET) show at MAKS-2013 display system for targeting fighter T-50. This helmet-mounted display system with a modified image processing algorithms allow pilots of combat aircraft to see targets in all weather conditions, day and night. Details of the prospective system are still unknown.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/08/26/hud/
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    coolieno99

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  coolieno99 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:52 am

    PAK-FA T-50 fighters performing at MAKS 2013 air show


    Austin

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:58 pm

    India to customise Russia's FGFA planes


    The Indian version of an Indo-Russian fifth-generation fighter plane is going to be lighter weight, more powerful and less visible to enemy radars that the original Russian version, according to a senior executive at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

    Under a joint project with Russia to build a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) India will modify and customise the prototype Russia has developed independently.

    “While the Russian version of the FGFA is all-metal, ours will have wings and empennage (vertical and horizontal stabilisers) made of composite materials,” said S. Subrahmanyan, Managing Director of MiG Complex at HAL.

    “The use of composites will reduce the plane’s weight and give it lower signature. Our version will also have more advanced Indian-made avionics,” Mr. Subrahmanyan told The Hindu at the Moscow Air Show-2013. He is leading a HAL delegation to the biannual air show being held this year from August 27 to September 1.

    “Thanks to these improvements we will get a better and more powerful platform,” Mr. Subrahmanyan said.

    The FGFA is going to be India’s biggest and most ambitious defence project and the largest joint venture with Russia. Earlier this year the two sides completed the preliminary design of the FGFA and are now negotiating a detailed design contract. Mr. Subrahmanyan said he hopes the contract could be signed before the end of the current year.

    Four Russian prototypes of the fifth-generation fighter, codenamed T-50 or PAK-FA, have performed more than 200 test flights since January 2010. The Russian Air Force plans to begin inducting the plane in 2015.

    HAL is to get three Russian prototypes for re-design and testing in 2015, 2016 and 2017, and will hand over the first series produced aircraft to the IAF in 2019, Mr. Subrahmanyan said.

    The FGFA project will take the Indian expertise in aviation technologies to a much higher level.

    “We’ve moved from license production and technology transfer to co-design and co-development,” Mr. Subrahmanyan said. He pointed out that India supplies avionics for Su-30 Russia is building for Malaysia and Indonesia.

    “Co-design offers far greater scope for knowledge sharing compared with license production. In co-design projects all Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) are jointly held by parties involved,” Mr. Subrahmanyan added.

    India is currently working on two co-design defence projects with Russia – the FGFA and the Multi-role Transport Aircraft, which is already in detailed design stage.

    With the West, India has so far had only one co-design project – the Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv, developed with assistance from Germany’s MBB.
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    TR1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:39 pm

    That sounds like 100% BS for internal consumption.

    Guarantee there won't be such differences.

    Russian version all metal? LOL! Thats just incorrect.

    More advanced Indian electronics? Please....
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:03 am

    T-50 pictures in hangar.
    Some interesting close-ups.

    http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/429658.html?nojs=1

    and

    http://aviator-ru.livejournal.com/364094.html
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    NickM

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  NickM on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:54 pm

    Austin wrote:“Thanks to these improvements we will get a better and more powerful platform,” Mr. Subrahmanyan said.
    These Indians with their low aptitude take tremendous pleasure in making a fool of themselves . As they say in the UK that these Indians are the best specimen of God's perfect Asshole.
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    SOC

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  SOC on Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:55 pm

    Looking at some of the high resolution photos of 054 it seems to be of a significantly different (i.e. "better") build quality than 051.
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    TR1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:20 pm

    SOC wrote:Looking at some of the high resolution photos of 054 it seems to be of a significantly different (i.e. "better") build quality than 051.
    You sure its not lighting + 051 being flogged around more?
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    TR1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  TR1 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:21 pm

    NickM wrote:
    Austin wrote:“Thanks to these improvements we will get a better and more powerful platform,” Mr. Subrahmanyan said.
    These Indians with their low aptitude take tremendous pleasure in making a fool of themselves . As they say in the UK that these Indians are the best specimen of God's perfect Asshole.
    Yeah Russian officials never say stupid shit.

    Oh wait.
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    SOC

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  SOC on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:48 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    SOC wrote:Looking at some of the high resolution photos of 054 it seems to be of a significantly different (i.e. "better") build quality than 051.
    You sure its not lighting + 051 being flogged around more?
    Could be, but I'm pretty sure I'm seeing a much better surface finish quality.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:19 am

    TR1 wrote:That sounds like 100% BS for internal consumption.

    Guarantee there won't be such differences.

    Russian version all metal? LOL! Thats just incorrect.

    More advanced Indian electronics? Please....
    Very laughable article.

    Indian electronics? More like Intel 960M processor which isn't Indian, and majority of other Indian avionics are from Israel. They do not even create a national microprocessor, which Russia does. So Indian electronics being advanced is funny in itself since majority of their electronics are not even Indian.

    PAK FA consists of about 25% composites and consist of about 70% of the outer airframe of composites.

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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:08 am

    Have to be careful when talking about percentages of composites as composites are light.

    If you take a Hammer that weighs 2kgs and you replace the steel handle with composites like fibreglass, if the new hammer weighs 1.5kgs because the two components... hammer head and handle where the old hammer head is 1kg and the old handle is 1kg, but the new handle is .5kg lighter then it is 33.3 percent composites by weight but it could be 60% composite by volume...


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:18 pm

    I recall that in the past the Soviets made sure that there combat aircraft had a similar or identical cockpit layout, i was wondering if this practice is still continuing in Russia today? scratch

    Austin

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Austin on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:43 pm

    T-50-2 at MAKS

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    Deep Throat

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Deep Throat on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:50 pm

    SOC wrote:Looking at some of the high resolution photos of 054 it seems to be of a significantly different (i.e. "better") build quality than 051.
    Basically the same . This link by and large proves it . No difference between the two models .

    http://bastion-karpenko.ru/t-50_maks-2013/
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    coolieno99

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  coolieno99 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:50 pm

    Actually Russia has been using composites in her aircrafts for a long time. The vertical tail fin of the MiG-29 is made of composites. What's new is that they are now working on radar-absorbing composite fan blade for new jet engine to be mounted on the PAK-FA. This will eliminate the need for a radar blocker ( or a S-duct ).
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:22 am

    I recall that in the past the Soviets made sure that there combat aircraft had a similar or identical cockpit layout, i was wondering if this practice is still continuing in Russia today?
    They had standardised instruments and positions for instruments, but they were not identical.

    Getting into a Yak propeller driven trainer there is an instrument that tells you your airspeed and it is the same and in the same place as the same instrument in the Mig-25 but the one in the Yak-18 does not redline at mach 2.83 like the Mig-25 one does.

    With MFDs the new "instruments" are software and the way they display information will be standardised.

    The An-124 used lots of composites in the late 1970s.


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    Sujoy

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:20 pm


    When those pics of T 50 ( prototype 051) in its hangar were taken a press call was made to announce "greater involvement" of Russian Academy of Sciences' participation by raising the faculty from 1 ( on this date ) to 5 .

    dionis

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  dionis on Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:45 pm

    This is *written* so poorly that I can't bear to finish reading it.

    Of course little tidbits of what may as well be complete BS, like the 20 year old APG-77 is "more advanced" than the NIIP AESA, caught my eye.

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:53 pm

    dionis wrote:This is *written* so poorly that I can't bear to finish reading it.

    Of course little tidbits of what may as well be complete BS, like the 20 year old APG-77 is "more advanced" than the NIIP AESA, caught my eye.

    What are you talking about?? confused

    dionis

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  dionis on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:10 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    dionis wrote:This is *written* so poorly that I can't bear to finish reading it.

    Of course little tidbits of what may as well be complete BS, like the 20 year old APG-77 is "more advanced" than the NIIP AESA, caught my eye.

    What are you talking about?? confused
    Wrote text somewhere else and posted into the wrong thread - hah! Neutral
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:45 am

    coolieno99 wrote:Actually Russia has been using composites in her aircrafts for a long time. The vertical tail fin of the MiG-29 is made of composites. What's new is that they are now working on radar-absorbing composite fan blade for new jet engine to be mounted on the PAK-FA. This will eliminate the need for a radar blocker ( or a S-duct ).
    Not really, the blades will still have some reflection left.. and not to mention that there are still other parts of engine made of conductive metal that can be the source of RCS.


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