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    MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

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    Svyatoslavich

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:30 am

    I read in Yefim Gordon's book about the MiG-29 that North Korea bought the license to locally produce MiG-29s in the 80's, but was never able to really manufacture one on its own, the few MiG-29 they have came from the Soviet Union in kits and were just assembled there.
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    Militarov

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Militarov on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:37 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:I read in Yefim Gordon's book about the MiG-29 that North Korea bought the license to locally produce MiG-29s in the 80's, but was never able to really manufacture one on its own, the few MiG-29 they have came from the Soviet Union in kits and were just assembled there.

    They bought kits to assemble in NK, and failed basically. Licence was never part of the deal as there was not even remote chance NK would ever be able to materialise such agreement.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:14 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Svyatoslavich wrote:I read in Yefim Gordon's book about the MiG-29 that North Korea bought the license to locally produce MiG-29s in the 80's, but was never able to really manufacture one on its own, the few MiG-29 they have came from the Soviet Union in kits and were just assembled there.

    They bought kits to assemble in NK, and failed basically. Licence was never part of the deal as there was not even remote chance NK would ever be able to materialise such agreement.

    I would imagine that if they really put emphasis on aircraft production or know how to do it, as they do in rocket and missile development, I imagine it wouldn't take them long to figure it out.  Especially if they start by reverse engineering something like MiG-21's or J-7's.  Piece by piece.  It would take a long time and I know it will be difficult with probably some of them being no longer operational afterwards, but at least they can solve the issue of lack of replacements.  Hell, since there is nothing left to lose, Iran and North Korea can work together.  Heck, both would make good money together from such a development IMO. Maybe its their next thing after they are comfortable with their missiles they have designed and start actually producing the models they want.

    kopyo-21

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  kopyo-21 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:14 am

    Ideally is NK (can) copies the RD-33 engine and some avionics from its Mig-29s then uses that to make the Mig-21s :-)
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:40 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    Well, they had jets for a considerable amount of time, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to build whole ones, since they would have had to produce spare parts down to the nut and bolt.

    It would be nice to see more than just rockets and artillery.

    You know that first MiG-29s they recieved in kits, and they stood for very long time in hangars, because.. they didnt know how to assemble them. It was their tryout to liftup aircraft industry, to learn about it and it didnt go very well, at the end foreign technicians did the job (Russian-Ukrainian). So forgive me for being abit skeptical about jet engine production. Overhaul sure, they are doing it with some success for quite some time. But in general their know-how regarding that field is quite poor.

    Even if they manage somehow to build a mig 21, it's gonna be the worst fighter ever produced. Even modern us or french or russian new fighters are not perfect and have crashes. What would it be with a north korean product ?

    Their potentiel enemy is US or south Korea so it won't change anything if they have mig 21 or no. Their ressources are very very limited. They should invest in civilian projects instead.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:51 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    Well, they had jets for a considerable amount of time, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to build whole ones, since they would have had to produce spare parts down to the nut and bolt.

    It would be nice to see more than just rockets and artillery.

    You know that first MiG-29s they recieved in kits, and they stood for very long time in hangars, because.. they didnt know how to assemble them. It was their tryout to liftup aircraft industry, to learn about it and it didnt go very well, at the end foreign technicians did the job (Russian-Ukrainian). So forgive me for being abit skeptical about jet engine production. Overhaul sure, they are doing it with some success for quite some time. But in general their know-how regarding that field is quite poor.

    Even if they manage somehow to build a mig 21, it's gonna be the worst fighter ever produced. Even modern us or french or russian new fighters are not perfect and have crashes. What would it be with a north korean product ?

    Their potentiel enemy is US or south Korea so it won't change anything if they have mig 21 or no. Their ressources are very very limited. They should invest in civilian projects instead.

    It makes more sense to make missiles, and stationer radards.

    It take too much resources to make an inferior fighter, without any usable radar.

    They can make usable ground based radars and missiles instead, that can do all job better than a mig21.
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:04 pm

    They already have something that looks like s-300 but its probably a bad copy. Actually militarly they can't do anything worth money. They should try to have better relation withsouth korea instead, they have everything to win by doing this.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:55 pm

    That's basis on what?

    North Korea makes some equipment like artillery used by Iran. They make Kh-35 knockoffs, they make knockoffs of a lot of ground systems. I don't see any reasoning to believe they don't work.

    And do you really think they can have good relations with South Korea with US constantly stirring shit? You think US will allow South Korea have good relations with the north without demanding the north to give up their country?

    Some of you are beyond help when it comes to common sense or even basic thinking process.
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:24 am

    miketheterrible wrote:That's basis on what?

    North Korea makes some equipment like artillery used by Iran. They make Kh-35 knockoffs, they make knockoffs of a lot of ground systems.  I don't see any reasoning to believe they don't work.

    And do you really think they can have good relations with South Korea with US constantly stirring shit? You think US will allow South Korea have good relations with the north without demanding the north to give up their country?

    Some of you are beyond help when it comes to common sense or even basic thinking process.

    Based on history. There is a difference between making an artillery and a system like a s-300 or a mig fighter ... and like you say they make copy systems. No one knows how good they are and I would say they are not better than original. Iraqi Scud were awfull for exemple. They simply don't have enough smart guys to do the work.

    Relations between south and north korea are more complicated than you seem to "know". I said they should not they will.

    North and south Koreas can reach an agreement if they really want to. But I agree US are not helpfull. That's why I said they should try to have good relations with south Korea not US.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:36 am

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:That's basis on what?

    North Korea makes some equipment like artillery used by Iran. They make Kh-35 knockoffs, they make knockoffs of a lot of ground systems.  I don't see any reasoning to believe they don't work.

    And do you really think they can have good relations with South Korea with US constantly stirring shit? You think US will allow South Korea have good relations with the north without demanding the north to give up their country?

    Some of you are beyond help when it comes to common sense or even basic thinking process.

    Based on history. There is a difference between making an artillery and a system like a s-300 or a mig fighter ... and like you say they make copy systems. No one knows how good they are and I would say they are not better than original. Iraqi Scud were awfull for exemple. They simply don't have enough smart guys to do the work.

    Relations between south and north korea are more complicated than you seem to "know". I said they should not they will.

    North and south Koreas can reach an agreement if they really want to. But I agree US are not helpfull. That's why I said they should try to have good relations with south Korea not US.

    I am aware of the Korean situation. I am also aware of how a lot of technology works as well. Let me explain: even if lets say a knockoff of S-300 exists in North Korea, and lets say performance is half of the modern systems, it may not be entirely bad: https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/kn-06/

    If it flew 150km's from the launcher, then there is a chance that the missile may have a 90km~ range for engagement of enemy aircrafts. Maybe even higher (120km possibly). Their Strela's look like local modernization and production of parts and missiles, so it clearly gives North Korea an edge in being able to create them when needed so the logistics must be there and so a war of attrition doesn't exactly work against NK.

    I wouldn't knock the systems. Yeah, they may not be as fancy looking or maybe not as modern in the sense of subcomponents as South Korean stuff, but they most likely work and that is something must be taken into account. Plus with their missile and artillery systems, they can cause severe devastation which is why South Korea and Japan are not interested in an actual conflict.

    And South Korea and North Korea were trying very hard to cooperate with each other. Hence why Hyundai has a plant in Pyongyang. Thats why North korea was gaining a lot of investments, even in their special economic zone were a Rail line is being built by Russia from Russia through NK to SK. Why there was SK investments and Chinese investments. Guess who is pushing hard to prevent these nations from cooperating? USA. Guess who is keeping the war rhetorics up? USA. Guess who prevents South Korea from actually trying to have some kind of normal relations with NK? USA. So unless USA is removed from the scene entirely, there will never be any proper relations between the two Koreas. On top of that, its obvious that South Korea has no real say and is a vassal state since USA kept their bases in SK. As well, it was the USA that broke majority of the agreements anyway back in 2001 when the agreements were made between NK and USA/SK in nuclear weapons production and the USA was to give up their constant exercises and what not at the borders. Sure enough, even USA couldn't keep themselves from being big time fucking assholes and so which forced NK's hand to restart nuclear weapons production.

    Sorry to say buddy, but you need a bit more experience I think in understanding foreign relations and politics. Cause its rather a amateur mistake to think that these two nations can have normalization of relations if the USA is in the scene.

    kopyo-21

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  kopyo-21 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:30 am

    The NK's budget is very tightly limited so they have kept focussing on what can well thread around: nuclear & IBM. I think if they have enough money to invest for aerospace industry, they at least can copy/produce Mig-21s or F-7s, not mention about the quality yet.

    Regarding to Mig-29, I still think Russia should keep its design to continuosly modernize and upgrade further (like F-16 family) instead of launching Mig-35. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing argument with Mig-35's performance but just think that Mig-29s with all improment would be better than it.

    For example, thank to the airframe design and lower thrust RD-33 engines, Mig-29s consume much less fuel than Mig-35s. With full internal fuel of ~4,500L (9-13) and 3 fuel tanks (2,820L in total), Mig-29s can fly 2,900km (3 fuel tanks contribute 1,400km). While with full internal fuel of 6,250L and 3 fuel tanks (3,515L in total), Mig-35s can fly 3,000km (3 fuel tanks contribute 1,000km). The Mig-35s is heavier, bigger, higher thrust and better thrush-to-weight ratio so consume more fuel. However the Mig-29's thrust-to-weight ratio as well as its maneuver capabilities still are well adequate for modern wars today.

    What they need to do with new Mg-29s are to replace new engines (keep max thrush at 8,300 kgf), remove the auxiliary air intakes to accommodate more fuel, replace main wings to add more hard points and fuel, strengthen the landing gears and airframe to increase the external load and max take-off weight, etc. The higher used composites will help it keep the empty weight at 11 tons like the 9-13 version. With all changes, the new Mig-29s suppose to have ferry range of 3,600-3,800km. New Mig-29 also can equip AESA radar, advanced elec-optronic, ECM, targeting pod and fifth-generation weapons, etc like Mig-35s.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:30 pm

    I'd say for DPRK (and other smaller countries) investing in producing UCAVs to leapfrog conventional 4, 4.5 gen types operated by wealthy countries would be the way to go.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:18 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:I'd say for DPRK (and other smaller countries) investing in producing UCAVs to leapfrog conventional 4, 4.5 gen types operated by wealthy countries would be the way to go.

    UAV's are one thing, manned aircrafts are another. Placing your entire bet on an aircraft that relies on just computers is a real bad idea. We seen what happened with RQ-160. It's fine to use as disposable, but it can also be used against you too through hacking methods.

    But yeah, having a unmanned aircraft is ideal for NK for some tasks, but manned is much needed in the future too for all nations. And those MiG-29's are long in the tooth. Not mentioning their other jets.
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:47 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:I'd say for DPRK (and other smaller countries) investing in producing UCAVs to leapfrog conventional 4, 4.5 gen types operated by wealthy countries would be the way to go.

    UAV's are one thing, manned aircrafts are another. Placing your entire bet on an aircraft that relies on just computers is a real bad idea. We seen what happened with RQ-160. It's fine to use as disposable, but it can also be used against you too through hacking methods.

    But yeah, having a unmanned aircraft is ideal for NK for some tasks, but manned is much needed in the future too for all nations. And those MiG-29's are long in the tooth. Not mentioning their other jets.

    Good for what ?

    In a conventional war they will lose in the first week. The only thing that make them survive is that they can reach Seoul with artillery and that China could go into war with them. Their military don't matter at all. Drones or not, they don't have the capabilities to fight by their own US/south korea. Their missiles could be destroyed by S-300 VM if south korea was smart enough to buy them.

    And now that they are getting nuks even Chian could fuck them and let US attack them because they won't be their puppet anymore.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:I'd say for DPRK (and other smaller countries) investing in producing UCAVs to leapfrog conventional 4, 4.5 gen types operated by wealthy countries would be the way to go.

    UAV's are one thing, manned aircrafts are another. Placing your entire bet on an aircraft that relies on just computers is a real bad idea. We seen what happened with RQ-160. It's fine to use as disposable, but it can also be used against you too through hacking methods.

    But yeah, having a unmanned aircraft is ideal for NK for some tasks, but manned is much needed in the future too for all nations. And those MiG-29's are long in the tooth. Not mentioning their other jets.

    Good for what ?

    In a conventional war they will lose in the first week. The only thing that make them survive is that they can reach Seoul with artillery and that China could go into war with them. Their military don't matter at all.  Drones or not, they don't have the capabilities to fight by their own US/south korea. Their missiles could be destroyed by S-300 VM if south korea was smart enough to buy them.

    And now that they are getting nuks even Chian could fuck them and let US attack them because they won't be their puppet anymore.

    They have had nukes for years. And if US even attempted, South Korea and Japan will be hit hard, something both those nations don't want, thus they will press hard against US.

    Reason why China supported NK was a buffer zone. They already stated to US they will defend NK if the US attacks first.
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:44 pm

    They have had nukes for years. And if US even attempted, South Korea and Japan will be hit hard, something both those nations don't want, thus they will press hard against US.

    Reason why China supported NK was a buffer zone. They already stated to US they will defend NK if the US attacks first.

    They were not able to send nuks on japan. Even on south korea its doubtfull. They have to make mini nuks for that. According to many official statements of CIA they are not able to do this.

    Once they will have true modern nuks capabilities they won't be a buffer zone for China anymore. Asian countries are not friends between them. They used to annexe each other. No one will die for the other if they don't have to. So most probably they will say to china "it was nice to meet you but we have take some distance".

    Idem for japan and USA. That's why USA and China don't really do whatever those countries want. China doesn't veto all sanctions against north korea and USA don't give all the military equipment to japan. They don't want them to be self sufficiant. North korea having nuks will change their relations with china. It's already happening for the olympic games, north ans south get close without the help of china or USA.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:48 pm

    Isos wrote:
    They have had nukes for years. And if US even attempted, South Korea and Japan will be hit hard, something both those nations don't want, thus they will press hard against US.

    Reason why China supported NK was a buffer zone. They already stated to US they will defend NK if the US attacks first.

    They were not able to send nuks on japan. Even on south korea its doubtfull. They have to make mini nuks for that. According to many official statements of CIA they are not able to do this.

    Once they will have true modern nuks capabilities they won't be a buffer zone for China. Asian countries are not friends between them. They used to annexe each other. No one will die for the other if they don't have to. So most probably they will say to china "it was nive to meet you bit we have take some distance".

    Idem for japan and USA. That's why USA and China don't really do whatever those countries want. China doesn't veto all sanctions against north korea and USA don't give all the military equipment to japan. They don't want them to be self sufficiant. North korea having nuks will change their relations with china. It's already happening for the olympic games, north ans south get close without the help of china or USA.

    Do you really believe what you type? China and Russia are both certain of NK nukes.

    You don't know the culture nor history, that's obvious. You also don't know what China has demanded or stated do you?

    And btw, US just threatened the norks today as is. US stated they will be holding drills with SK after Olympics. Things will go back to status quo.

    China was the one who supported NK in the conflict in the 50's. They will do it again too so long as NK doesn't start it. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.
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    Militarov

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Militarov on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:01 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    They have had nukes for years. And if US even attempted, South Korea and Japan will be hit hard, something both those nations don't want, thus they will press hard against US.

    Reason why China supported NK was a buffer zone. They already stated to US they will defend NK if the US attacks first.

    They were not able to send nuks on japan. Even on south korea its doubtfull. They have to make mini nuks for that. According to many official statements of CIA they are not able to do this.

    Once they will have true modern nuks capabilities they won't be a buffer zone for China. Asian countries are not friends between them. They used to annexe each other. No one will die for the other if they don't have to. So most probably they will say to china "it was nive to meet you bit we have take some distance".

    Idem for japan and USA. That's why USA and China don't really do whatever those countries want. China doesn't veto all sanctions against north korea and USA don't give all the military equipment to japan. They don't want them to be self sufficiant. North korea having nuks will change their relations with china. It's already happening for the olympic games, north ans south get close without the help of china or USA.

    Do you really believe what you type? China and Russia are both certain of NK nukes.

    You don't know the culture nor history, that's obvious. You also don't know what China has demanded or stated do you?

    And btw, US just threatened the norks today as is. US stated they will be holding drills with SK after Olympics.  Things will go back to status quo.

    China was the one who supported NK in the conflict in the 50's. They will do it again too so long as NK doesn't start it. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.

    They did make nuclear warheads that work, basic template exists, but their miniaturisation to be easy to deliver via missiles they developed is still an issue. Too bulky i guess would be the term Smile

    I personally dont think China would support today NK they did back in 50s, times changed, China is not anymore purely Red state, their economy relies on massive exports to Western world. What would happen if they intervened directly in NK in case of conflict between US/SK? I dont think they would rush on white horses to help Kim really, even China doesnt like many of NK moves though last 10-15 years, Hell they even banned certain technologies and components from export to NK.

    Again its my two cents on the matter.
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:03 pm

    Yes they know they have nuks but they don't help them to get them or make them easier to develop them.

    And if you look at russian and chinese radars they are scanning each other and north korea. A neighbour country having nuks isn't a good news for anyone.

    They have to protect north korea only because of US expension. If there was no US expension or if tomorrow somehow US call back their troops from south korea and japan its China who will invade them for sure.

    No one knows what will happen on the long term. So if north korea have modern nuk weapons and south korea very good economy and they are again on country, it will be very bad for china and USA.

    You make that sound like chinese give a shit about north korea. They just support them to counter USA.

    And btw, US just threatened the norks today as is. US stated they will be holding drills with SK after Olympics. Things will go back to status quo.

    That's short term. On the long term it's not the same at all. South korea has to do what US wants. No choice.
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    Isos

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Isos on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:07 pm

    I personally dont think China would support today NK they did back in 50s, times changed,

    Nothing changed. USSR proposed a nuk attack on china to USA during their border crisis. Communist alliances are bullshit. Who would go for a WW3 to protect a dictator like kim.
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    franco

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  franco on Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:29 am

    IMO the question here is does either China or even Russia want an USA controlled united Korea on their borders. This question dominates all political and military strategic planning.
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    gaurav

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    I also interfere in this DPRK discussion

    Post  gaurav on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:34 am

    China was the one who supported NK in the conflict in the 50's.
    They will do it again too so long as NK doesn't start it. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.

    1953 Soviet help

    1953 it was the soviet air force , where as today it is Russ air force. Chinese are a force to day not then.
    MiG-15: Jet that shocked the West .
    Take the air battles of April 12,Single day 1951 in which the Americans lost 25 strategic bombers and around 100 airmen.
    That was called a “Black Day” and a week of mourning was declared in the USAF. And yet the Americans claimed they shot down 11 MiGs that day.

    “In reality,” says Kramrenko, “all our fighters made it home safely and only three or four MiGs had holes from the bombers’ machine gun fire.
    This was based on the fact that the Americans counted shot-down enemy planes based on camera gunshots. I guess the American pilots had
    counted me as shot down – and no less than two or three times.” The Americans, therefore, ‘downed’ more MiGs than the number that fought in Korea.

    The Russian side had a more foolproof system of recording kills. Pilots had to provide a clear and distinct camera shot and conformation
    from a search group, which was supposed to bring the debris of a downed enemy plane.
    A similar controversy involved the Australians, who dispatched their 77th Squadron of Gloster Meteors to South Korea.
    On a cold December day while flying combat patrol, the Russians led by Kramarenko encountered as many as 20 of these British built aircraft.

    It turned out to be black day for the Australians as the MiGs tore into the Gloster formations. Within seconds there were a dozen fires on the
    ground below – the wreckage of these hapless planes. There was a sole survivor who broke out of this hell to head home.
    Let him go home to his aerodrome and tell of the fate of the rest of his comrades who had wanted to wipe out a Korean town,
    AGAIN CNN/MSNBC ..
    Despite receiving such a mauling, the Australians believed they had shot down a MiG in this dogfight while losing only three of their aircraft.
    The Russians never encountered any more Glosters over the skies of Korea. In reality, the Australians were kept out of harm’s way by the Americans.

    The last restriction was crippling – it meant Russian pilots were prevented from giving chase to enemy aircraft. Since aircraft are
    at their most vulnerable while fleeing (because they have either run out ammunition, are low on fuel, or experiencing technical
    trouble), it meant Russian pilots were denied easy kills. Hundreds of western fighters were able to escape into South Korea
    because the Russians turned back as they neared the coastline or the border.

    Despite such limitations, Russia came out on top. According to Karamarenko, during the 32 months that Russian forces
    were in Korea, they downed 1250 enemy planes. “Of that number the (Russian) corps’ anti-aircraft artillery shot
    down 153 planes and the pilots killed 1097,” he writes. In comparison, the Soviets lost 319 MiGs and Lavochkin La-11s.

    The Russians nicknamed the B-29s “Flying Shacks” as these lumbering birds burned so easily and well.

    Former USAF pilot Lt-Col Earl McGill sums up the battle in 'Black Tuesday Over Namsi: B-29s vs MiGs':
    "In percentages, Black Tuesday marked the greatest loss on any major bombing mission in any war the United States
    has ever engaged in, and the ensuing battle, in a chunk of sky called MiG Alley, still ranks as perhaps the greatest jet air battle of all time."

    But most importantly, the bravery and skills of the Russian detachment to Korea may have prevented another world war.
    Kramarenko explains: “The B-29 was a strategic bomber, in other words, a carrier of atomic bombs. In a Third World War –
    on the brink of which we were – these bombers were meant to strike at the cities of the Soviet Union with nuclear bombs.
    Now it turned out these huge planes were defenceless against jet fighters, being far inferior to them in speed and armament.”

    But the situation in 2018 is very different. We really dont know how many missiles /weapons NK has .. and what is the political
    situation in U.S vis a vis the deep state
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:59 am

    gaurav wrote:But the situation in 2018 is very different. We really dont know how many missiles /weapons NK has .. and what is the political
    situation in U.S vis a vis the deep state

    Seems they have enough to deter this dysfunctional US government.. a lot of I Huff ...and...I Puff.

    Also, another problem they have is that the South Koreans don't look like they're too keen on sacrificing themselves for the sake of Trump's ego
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:44 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    gaurav wrote:But the situation in 2018 is very different. We really dont know how many missiles /weapons NK has .. and what is the political
    situation in U.S vis a vis the deep state

    Seems they have enough to deter this dysfunctional US government.. a lot of I Huff ...and...I Puff.

    Also, another problem they have is that the South Koreans don't look like they're too keen on sacrificing themselves for the sake of Trump's ego

    This

    Simple fact is, NK has enough weapons to really ruin SK's day and people generally do not want to die, especially when its someone else creating the situation in the first place.

    While SK and NK were communicating and willing to work with each other, the American's are trying to divert that from happening and are wanting a conflict to continue. They see this so they are wanting to prevent any work being done between NK and SK.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:13 pm

    Having read a lot about DPRK armed forces as well visiting country I can clearly say they wouldn't be a push over. Ok there navy and airforce isn't great and the navy could hold out for a short period their airforce is bad and could really only be useful in ground attack role.

    As for the army this is where there strength is. Not only is it massive the DPRK has the largest bunker system in the world then you have all the natural caves. 80% of the country is mountainous and their is large paddy fields which would be a nightmare for vehicles. They have also designed roads to be easily blocked by blasting huge concrete pillars strategically placed. They also have enough ammo food fuel in storage for at least 6 months of intense warfare and share a border with Russia and China which I am sure would secretly support them in war situation. Every man and woman spend hours every week training right up to retirement age. And you also have the youth groups being trained aswell. They also have shitloads of artillery pieces and most are protected by bunkers and they also build a lot of fakes to make it hard for foreign air forces to accurately target the real equipment. They have a large special forces as well. They also have the most dense air defence in the world--- ok the systems might be outdated but a lot are anti aircraft guns which cant be intercepted what you have is a shit storm of rounds flying in the air not great for any airforce. Then you have their nukes, various missiles and chemical and biological weapons. This all adds up to a nightmare. All these reasons are why they haven't been attacked not to mention that south Korea would be saturated in missiles and artillery some nuclear, chemical and biological. Mass death on South Korean soil. It's a million times worse than Vietnam.

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    Re: MIG-21, MIG-25, MIG-29SMT. Your views

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