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    FYROM inter-ethnic violence

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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 2:02 pm

    OK, after we've had that beautiful explanation on how everything works smoothly in the Balkans, and after I went from being a pseudo-Macedonian, to a pseudo-Serb really, and then transformed into a pseudo-Bulgarian concluding that I'm neither of those - but an Albanian, and later a Gypsy...Now that I'm back to being a not-so-proper Macedonian™, let me continue with the topic at hand:

    The word on the street is that America is indeed asking for the Government to step down on one hand, and that the Russian Embassy's staff has tripled in the recent weeks (no info on why).
    Local news reports about the terrorist attack vary from "The Government hired the Albanian mafia to do a terror attack" (opposition media) to "Al-Qaeda's most active and dangerous cell in the Balkans liquidated" (Government media). The between is that it's really a move by America through proxies to destabilize the situation because of the Turkish Stream. Take your own pick, whichever seems logical...

    The west is now questioning the government:

    West questions Macedonian government's commitment to democracy

    Reuters wrote:SKOPJE, May 11 (Reuters) - Western powers on Monday questioned the Macedonian government's commitment to democracy and European values over its failure to address allegations of abuse of power, piling pressure on leader Nikola Gruevski following a weekend of bloodshed.

    The unusually strong rebuke follows months of damaging opposition disclosures from taped conversations involving Gruevski and his closest allies that the West says raise serious questions about the state of democracy in the ex-Yugoslav republic.
    Gruevski's government on Saturday ordered a police operation at dawn against what it called ethnic Albanian "terrorists" in the northern, ethnically-mixed town of Kumanovo, triggering a gun battle in which eight police and 14 alleged gunmen died. The bloodshed recalled an ethnic conflict in 2001 that took Macedonia to the brink of civil war before Western diplomacy intervened. But it also drew accusations from the country's Albanian minority and Gruevski's political opponents that the government was trying to create a diversion. The West called for a thorough investigation of what went on, and the ambassadors of the United States, the European Union, Britain, Germany, France and Italy met Gruevski on Monday for talks scheduled prior to the weekend violence. In a statement read out by U.S. ambassador Jess Baily, the envoys criticised Skopje's failure to address the "many allegations of government wrongdoing arising from the disclosures" published by opposition leader Zoran Zaev.

    Seems the same PowerPoints are circulating in the State Department merely being sent to different US Embassies on how to make a color revolution...just change name, date - and Presto, you've got yourself a color revolution!
    The questions remain the same: Democracy™. Human Rights™. Government legitimacy...etc.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 12, 2015 2:17 pm

    macedonian wrote:OK, after we've had that beautiful explanation on how everything works smoothly in the Balkans, and after I went from being a pseudo-Macedonian, to a pseudo-Serb really, and then transformed into a pseudo-Bulgarian concluding that I'm neither of those - but an Albanian, and later a Gypsy...Now that I'm back to being a not-so-proper Macedonian™, let me continue with the topic at hand:

    The word on the street is that America is indeed asking for the Government to step down on one hand, and that the Russian Embassy's staff has tripled in the recent weeks (no info on why).
    Local news reports about the terrorist attack vary from "The Government hired the Albanian mafia to do a terror attack" (opposition media) to "Al-Qaeda's most active and dangerous cell in the Balkans liquidated" (Government media). The between is that it's really a move by America through proxies to destabilize the situation because of the Turkish Stream. Take your own pick, whichever seems logical...

    The west is now questioning the government:

    West questions Macedonian government's commitment to democracy



    Reuters wrote:SKOPJE, May 11 (Reuters) - Western powers on Monday questioned the Macedonian government's commitment to democracy and European values over its failure to address allegations of abuse of power, piling pressure on leader Nikola Gruevski following a weekend of bloodshed.

    The unusually strong rebuke follows months of damaging opposition disclosures from taped conversations involving Gruevski and his closest allies that the West says raise serious questions about the state of democracy in the ex-Yugoslav republic.
    Gruevski's government on Saturday ordered a police operation at dawn against what it called ethnic Albanian "terrorists" in the northern, ethnically-mixed town of Kumanovo, triggering a gun battle in which eight police and 14 alleged gunmen died. The bloodshed recalled an ethnic conflict in 2001 that took Macedonia to the brink of civil war before Western diplomacy intervened. But it also drew accusations from the country's Albanian minority and Gruevski's political opponents that the government was trying to create a diversion. The West called for a thorough investigation of what went on, and the ambassadors of the United States, the European Union, Britain, Germany, France and Italy met Gruevski on Monday for talks scheduled prior to the weekend violence. In a statement read out by U.S. ambassador Jess Baily, the envoys criticised Skopje's failure to address the "many allegations of government wrongdoing arising from the disclosures" published by opposition leader Zoran Zaev.

    Seems the same PowerPoints are circulating in the State Department merely being sent to different US Embassies on how to make a color revolution...just change name, date - and Presto, you've got yourself a color revolution!
    The questions remain the same: Democracy™. Human Rights™. Government legitimacy...etc.


    Yeah well, We're having real trouble with Kosovars right now. It's schizophrenia among Albanians. Our MFA says they're totally opposed to violence and condemn calls by Russia about attacks being sponsored by Albania, on one hand the Minister called it a terror attack. The Spokesman says it is an incident...Kosovars say this is an attack on civilians.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue May 12, 2015 2:30 pm

    macedonian wrote:OK, after we've had that beautiful explanation on how everything works smoothly in the Balkans, and after I went from being a pseudo-Macedonian, to a pseudo-Serb really, and then transformed into a pseudo-Bulgarian concluding that I'm neither of those - but an Albanian, and later a Gypsy...Now that I'm back to being a not-so-proper Macedonian™


    All we DEMONSTRATED is that you are no Macedonian since there is no Macedonian that is no Greek and you are not Greek.
    We further said that this manifested by the fact that every single neighbor of your pseudo country claims a minority there and rightly so since,
    like we proved there are no Macedonians there but a crazy amalgam of Serbs, Bulgarians, Gipsies, Albanians and who knows what else.
    So what we see is this pseudo-nation degrading into it's true ingredients and this retarded Slavs manage to alienate themselves to their only historic allies the Greeks.
    This is probably too much for you to understand.


    Last edited by Hannibal Barca on Tue May 12, 2015 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 2:31 pm

    My Balkan (Moj Balkane)



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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 2:39 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:
    macedonian wrote:OK, after we've had that beautiful explanation on how everything works smoothly in the Balkans, and after I went from being a pseudo-Macedonian, to a pseudo-Serb really, and then transformed into a pseudo-Bulgarian concluding that I'm neither of those - but an Albanian, and later a Gypsy...Now that I'm back to being a not-so-proper Macedonian™

    All we DEMONSTRATED is that you are no Macedonian since there is no Macedonian that is no Greek and you are not Greek.
    We further said that this manifested by the fact that every single neighbor of your pseudo country claims a minority there and rightly so since,
    like we proved there are no Macedonians there but a crazy amalgam of Serbs, Bulgarians, Gipsies, Albanians and who knows what else.
    So what we see is this pseudo-nation degrading into it's true ingredients and this retarded Slavs manage to alienate themselves to their only historic allies the Greeks.
    This is probably too much for you to understand.
    Yes, it's not very gentlemanly to argue with the intellectually and morally challenged, so I'll leave you to your monologue...

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Yeah well, We're having real trouble with Kosovars right now. It's schizophrenia among Albanians. Our MFA says they're totally opposed to violence and condemn calls by Russia about attacks being sponsored by Albania, on one hand the Minister called it a terror attack. The Spokesman says it is an incident...Kosovars say this is an attack on civilians.
    You said it...
    My opinion hasn't changed...Kosovo will continue to be a sore point, and it'll export only stuff like this. Not to mention that it was a bad precedent for it to secede from Serbia. Serbs just can't afford to let the Kosovo issue go (nor should they IMHO), it's akin to suicide for any politician who does (though signing the Brussels agreement, they did a step in that direction). And - as we can see - it's not only Serbia that is affected.
    Add to the mix the returning fanatics from Syria and Iraq, and you have a recipe for a disaster.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 2:43 pm

    BTW, does anyone here remind anyone of the IsraelStronk crew over on mp.net that denied that there are really Palestinian people?
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 12, 2015 2:49 pm

    macedonian wrote:BTW, does anyone here remind anyone of the IsraelStronk crew over on mp.net that denied that there are really Palestinian people?

    Bloo, Zeev, GBX, Squidoo, ocasionnally Hollis and the rest of the Retardo crew. Pick your special needs kid.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 2:54 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    macedonian wrote:BTW, does anyone here remind anyone of the IsraelStronk crew over on mp.net that denied that there are really Palestinian people?

    Bloo, Zeev, GBX, Squidoo, ocasionnally Hollis and the rest of the Retardo crew. Pick your special needs kid.

    Seems there's another to add to the mix...If you're Mac..Palestinian - you have to be Gree...Israeli because there never were any Mac..Palestinians other than Gre..Israelis.
    All people that "settle" other people's lands also seem to have the same excuse (it's always centuries old historical one)...and they all act tougher than tough...and listen to no arguments, nor offer any - strange stuff.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 3:03 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Edit: He's Greek? What the hell?

    LOL Very Happy 4B sign from Palaiologos dynasty is used both by Serbs and Greeks. In English it means "King of Kings Reigning over those who Rule" (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων)
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 3:06 pm

    When knowledgeable @KoTeMoRe is confused about this , it`s no surprise Balkan is an enigma to outsiders.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 3:10 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Edit: He's Greek? What the hell?

    LOL Very Happy  4B sign from Palaiologos dynasty is used both by Serbs and Greeks. In English it means "King of Kings Reigning over those who Rule" (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων)
    Yes, a rather misplaced avatar in this case, since the Orthodox Church condemned as a modern ecclesial heresy the very "ethnophyletism" he's showing here (using that avatar no less).
    But seeing how his other "arguments" were also very intellectual, one doesn't feel very surprised him not knowing the actual meaning...
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 3:14 pm

    macedonian wrote:Yes, a rather misplaced avatar in this case, since the Orthodox Church condemned as a modern ecclesial heresy the very "ethnophyletism" he's showing here (using that avatar no less).
    But seeing how his other "arguments" were also very intellectual, one doesn't feel very surprised him not knowing the actual meaning...

    To be fair , "ethnofyletism" is natural consequence of lost Konstantinopol patriarchy legitimacy over believers , being seen as tool of Ottoman Sultan power.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 3:26 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    macedonian wrote:Yes, a rather misplaced avatar in this case, since the Orthodox Church condemned as a modern ecclesial heresy the very "ethnophyletism" he's showing here (using that avatar no less).
    But seeing how his other "arguments" were also very intellectual, one doesn't feel very surprised him not knowing the actual meaning...
    To be fair , "ethnofyletism" is natural consequence of lost Konstantinopol patriarchy legitimacy over believers , being seen as tool of Ottoman Sultan power.
    Fair conclusion.
    Though in a metaphysical sense natural doesn't always mean what it seems to mean.
    Anyway, that's why The Church reacted and condemned ethnophyletism as a heresy. Though to this day It can't seem to get rid of it, even among the clergy. But, at least they now know that what they're doing is not merely improper, but far...far worse - a heresy...
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 12, 2015 3:56 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Edit: He's Greek? What the hell?

    LOL Very Happy  4B sign from Palaiologos dynasty is used both by Serbs and Greeks. In English it means "King of Kings Reigning over those who Rule" (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων)

    Sure, sure, but Greeks are far more subtle than that when it comes to Albanians. We're "lost" link, not "Turkish" import. He saying Albanians being so, distinctively makes me wonder whenever the guy is Greek? You know Greek Nationalists have special Arvanit theory about Albania. Not Turkish import. So what exactly is going on here.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  George1 on Tue May 12, 2015 4:04 pm

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 4:13 pm

    That seems the most likely assessment of the situation to me as well.
    Not to mention that people like Korybko and a Serbian analyst called Lazanski (among many Macedonian analysts) also predicted this would happen months ago.
    We'll see what happens next, seems that the "Op" is botched, and our guys did some good work (sadly with the mentioned losses).

    But the Angloamericans NEVER give up, so I don't think this will be the end of it.

    The government here does seem determined to stay in power though, and as much as I hate them, as long as they've chosen Russia as our ally - they have my full support.
    So, interesting times ahead.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 4:42 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    zg18 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Edit: He's Greek? What the hell?

    LOL Very Happy  4B sign from Palaiologos dynasty is used both by Serbs and Greeks. In English it means "King of Kings Reigning over those who Rule" (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων)

    Sure, sure, but Greeks are far more subtle than that when it comes to Albanians. We're "lost" link, not "Turkish" import. He saying Albanians being so, distinctively makes me wonder whenever the guy is Greek? You know Greek Nationalists have special Arvanit theory about Albania. Not Turkish import. So what exactly is going on here.

    Who knows , i know that Arvanite guy from mp.net wrote about being criticized by Macedonian Albanians for being Orthodox , "Islam is faith of Albanians" kinda story.

    This is no provocation , but how Christians in Albania view that flavor of Albanian nationalism mixed with dose of Islamism , i know that strain is quite strong in Macedonia , that would certainly not be in your interest?

    I`m curious.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 4:45 pm

    Honestly , i don`t know how Albanians stick together as one people with all religious and dialectal (Gheg - Tosk) differences , that is quite un-Balkanic....
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 4:59 pm

    zg18 wrote:Honestly , i don`t know how Albanians stick together as one people with all religious and dialectal (Gheg - Tosk) differences , that is quite un-Balkanic....
    Ha ha, yes very un-Balkanic of them...But not all do. We have some that are Orthodox, we call them Shkreti which feel more or less Macedonian. Also out of the Muslim-Macedonian minority more than 80% feel Macedonian and were always active as soldiers in battle. But for proper Albanians in Albania religion isn't as big as nationality IMHO. The minister of Defense (and at a different time, a PM as well) Pandeli Majko is an Orthodox Christian, but supported the Albanian insurgency in Macedonia even when they were blowing-up Churches (the Lesok incident). After that brief war, our PM at the time gave him an Icon as a birthday present during his official visit to Ohrid, and the guy shed a tear...go figure...
    The Gheg - Tosk division is far more interesting, since (and I don't want to sound ignorant here KoTeMoRe, sorry if I do) the Tosk look very Italian to me. Fatos Nano and the like. The Gheg just look...well...different.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 pm

    @Macedonian , Gheg and Tosk are far more different than Serbian-Macedonian , not to mention Croatian-Serbian triangle. By Albanian standards , people living from Macedonia , Bulgarian Shopluk , Serbia, Bosnia ,Montengro and Croatia up to Kajkavian belt would constitute a single nation. That is of course in Slavic case a Science-Fiction.

    So yeah, for people who are almost always underestimated by it`s neighbours , that is quite remarkable achievement.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 12, 2015 5:25 pm

    zg18 wrote:Honestly , i don`t know how Albanians stick together as one people with all religious and dialectal (Gheg - Tosk) differences , that is quite un-Balkanic....

    Well basically because of Communism. Uncle Enver mashed up everything. Now we can't unthread some threads, I personally would like clear cut. So my son dates a Northern Albanian girl. I loathe them. Then it was fun times, since we were all stuck under the red eye. Now we have no qualms hacking eachother. But this is within Albania. Kosovars on the other side, look like people from the Moon. Macedonian Albanophones like people from Mars. And then you have exiles, who aren't people at all.

    Geg/Toskë is indeed about a perceived Christian Rift. From Korça down you have originally orthodox people (before the conversions), From Korça and up you have mainly catholic people originally. Then you have the Epirotes, orthodox almost impossible to tell them out from Greeks, Moreans that were a mixed bag, with a lot moving out of Greece and keeping a Griko/Arberesh cult in southern Italy. But there is also about who's what. Toskë people (like myself) are generally more sleuth and usually more down to biz. Northerners have this in group/out group logic that sends us all 50 years aback when their head starts to jam. See the whole Kanun revival. It took the communists 10 years to stop that crap with very heavy hands, and now it's all over the country and even Europe. It's worse than the Sicilian Faide.

    On Pandeli (Gabeli) Majko (means Gyspy) and his we ought to defend Albanians everywhere, that's the usual knee jerk reaction, his native region Gjirokastra usually has given Albania notable people with a VERY distinctive chauvinist method (Enver Hoxha being from the same neighbourhood albeit 50 years earlier).

    However Pandeli is a sham, former commie, then socialist? then just crap. Don't ming his babbling.

    We won't speak about the Cam question since there's basically nothing to discuss. It's one of those things we better ask ourself if it is worth the headache.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Tue May 12, 2015 5:34 pm

    That's exactly what I meant Zagrebosamnaest Very Happy .
    Remarkable indeed. The Vlach minority also did play a large part in Albania's overall development (especially intellectual). (again, correct me if I'm wrong KoTeMoRe)
    As is the case with all other Balkan countries.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:...Toskë people (like myself)...
    Somehow I knew it...LOL

    KoTeMoRe wrote:However Pandeli is a sham, former commie, then socialist? then just crap. Don't ming his babbling.
    Yeah, I knew that too...just wanted to illustrate my point.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:We won't speak about the Cam question since there's basically nothing to discuss. It's one of those things we better ask ourself if it is worth the headache.
    Yes, I think we've had enough of that for now...let's not bring the "intellectual" back to the thread.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 5:42 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    zg18 wrote:Honestly , i don`t know how Albanians stick together as one people with all religious and dialectal (Gheg - Tosk) differences , that is quite un-Balkanic....

    Well basically because of Communism. Uncle Enver mashed up everything. Now we can't unthread some threads, I personally would like clear cut. So my son dates a Northern Albanian girl. I loathe them. Then it was fun times, since we were all stuck under the red eye. Now we have no qualms hacking eachother. But this is within Albania. Kosovars on the other side, look like people from the Moon. Macedonian Albanophones like people from Mars. And then you have exiles, who aren't people at all.

    Geg/Toskë is indeed about a perceived Christian Rift. From Korça down you have originally orthodox people (before the conversions), From Korça and up you have mainly catholic people originally. Then you have the Epirotes, orthodox almost impossible to tell them out from Greeks, Moreans that were a mixed bag, with a lot moving out of Greece and keeping a Griko/Arberesh cult in southern Italy. But there is also about who's what. Toskë people (like myself) are generally more sleuth and usually more down to biz. Northerners have this in group/out group logic that sends us all 50 years aback when their head starts to jam. See the whole Kanun revival. It took the communists 10 years to stop that crap with very heavy hands, and now it's all over the country and even Europe. It's worse than the Sicilian Faide.

    On Pandeli (Gabeli) Majko (means Gyspy) and his we ought to defend Albanians everywhere, that's the usual knee jerk reaction, his native region Gjirokastra usually has given Albania notable people with a VERY distinctive chauvinist method (Enver Hoxha being from the same neighbourhood albeit 50 years earlier).

    However Pandeli is a sham, former commie, then socialist? then just crap. Don't ming his babbling.

    Thank you for interesting and honest answer.

    I mean , Albania should do more effort to familiarize neighbours about itself. News from Albania , honestly are perceived like news from India or South Africa.

    Second problem , are Kosovo Albanians , with all respect to them , they are not doing Albanians from Albania like you any favor in the region (you are perceived through them by others) , and they are not of good reputation (Kanon of Leka Dukagjini , kanun , vendetta , organized crime , position of women , arranged marriages from childhood etc.).

    I`m sorry if sound too uncomfortably honest , but , what the hell , even forums like this we can use to understand each other and raise awareness about certain things.
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 12, 2015 5:47 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    zg18 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:Edit: He's Greek? What the hell?

    LOL Very Happy  4B sign from Palaiologos dynasty is used both by Serbs and Greeks. In English it means "King of Kings Reigning over those who Rule" (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων)

    Sure, sure, but Greeks are far more subtle than that when it comes to Albanians. We're "lost" link, not "Turkish" import. He saying Albanians being so, distinctively makes me wonder whenever the guy is Greek? You know Greek Nationalists have special Arvanit theory about Albania. Not Turkish import. So what exactly is going on here.

    Who knows , i know that Arvanite guy from mp.net wrote about being criticized by Macedonian Albanians for being Orthodox , "Islam is faith of Albanians" kinda story.

    This is no provocation , but how Christians in Albania view that flavor of Albanian nationalism mixed with dose of Islamism , i know that strain is quite strong in Macedonia , that would certainly not be in your interest?

    I`m curious.

    Cakmak? Wasn't he Gorazhdi? Anyway, this is typical of the kind of shit we've been shoveling out since the "democrazy" years. Thank God, people IN Albania started to understand how deeply the whole Saudi/Qatari sugartrap can hurt the nation and went on with arrests and outright killings. But we can't control the northern border properly. There is no point trying to explain Kosovars, Islam is a foreign body within "Albanity". It's too late, these people are beyond salvation. I'm hearing for school books to call Ottomans, Imperialists, not Turks, while we had no qualm calling them so. Islam being totally suppressed from the cursus etc. This is something that will bite us all in the back later, but you can't mess around with Uncle Asshole, because otherwise we'll have similar 'incidents' and soon Southern Albanians will "oppress" Northerners, and we'll probably be NoFlyZoned. There is a very deep link between Notherners/Kosovars and the US, it's almost caricatural.

    Said, for us in Albania, Macedonians are like Martians. They pray, they eat, they live Islam, off course with some small liberties etc, and it is a hardcore Sunni tradition, instead of the Suffi, Bektashi one we generally have in Albania. BTW the Bektashi are Shias, so that makes most of them insta-pro everything normal. As I used to say at MP.net Shias have been a blessing since they took over the mosque in Saranda. No BS about Jihad, some anto-Israeli mumbo-jumbo, but that's OK, it's Orthodox central at home, we don't like Jews that much, as non-PC as it might sound. Calm people, very oecumenic, locals from Qesarat, old converts.

    Albanians and Islam is complicated, because we can't understand most of what we read. And Islam has to be understood and practiced in Arabic. Very different from Christianism, especially orthodoxy which has been for us, Southerners a proper text, in Toskë. So this is what explains that even Enver Hoxha, would sneak some Gjirokastrit references to Orthodoxy in the middle of a PPSH plenary session. Good times.



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    zg18

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  zg18 on Tue May 12, 2015 5:55 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:Cakmak? Wasn't he Gorazhdi?

    No , the guy that lived in Thessalonika , forget his name , i think it was Bundy or something.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

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