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    FYROM inter-ethnic violence

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    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed May 20, 2015 11:22 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:I live in Grece, I am Greek PART OF WHICH WAS IS AND WILL EVER BE THE ONE AND ONLY MACEDONIA.
    Macedonians where Greeks, they were looking Greek, they were SPEAKING GREEK, they were worshiping the Greek Gods and the were participating in the Greek league of city states since the dawn of time (about 12th century BC actually)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    In the area once occupied by the ancient kingdom of Macedonia there were NUMEROUS conquerors through history...... Romans, Turks, Bulgarians.... nobody ever even thought of stealing the history and the name and the symbols and anything, you are the only shit you do it and this is A CLEAR ACT OF WAR!!! from your criminal cancerous artificial crap.

    Could you tell me what standarts there are to define countries as ''artificial'' and ''true''?

    Due to short human lifespan you may not notice immediately, but national, let alone state, landscape changes all the time: some nations split up into new, smaller ones, others fuse into one nation (iran for example).

    And what about greece? Maybe, following your logic, only crete can be considered a true greece and all other regions are imposters? Wink


    I can tell you. A country is homogenous in terms of language, religion and race meaning that they acknowledge themselves part of the same nation.
    Whenever this is not happening we call the countries created either empires or made states. Artificial lines on the map.
    Artificial states are very common and their are usually centers of unrest.
    Artificial states created en mass after the resolution of the Soviet Union, you see Orthodox and Catholics, Muslims and Christians even Buddhists, Estonians and Russians, Cossacks and Tartars with Turks etc.
    Artificial states produced after imperialistic countries left Africa.
    Artificial states created in Middle East once the French and British cut Ottoman empire in squares on the map! and you see now Sunnis and Shias killing it's other.
    Artificial states created when the "usual suspects" burnt Yugoslavia to ashes, an artificial state itself.

    Crete? What are you talking about? We are all Greeks, excluding the Muslims leaving in Thrace, we all speak Greek and we all acknowledge ourselves part of the Greek nation both by belief and as a historic fact (you can exclude the leftists here, this rats have truly no roots). I have no idea how you came with Crete as an example? Due to the Minoan civilization?

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  whir on Thu May 21, 2015 8:27 pm

    Sputnik wrote:The Fifth Column: Western NGOs Accused of Financing Macedonian Uprising
    EUROPE 17:40 21.05.2015(updated 19:26 21.05.2015)

    There is increasing concern about potential outside influence involved in recent political demonstrations in Macedonia following reports that students were offered up to $1,500 by an activist group to come up with the best ideas on how to protest against the country's government.

    The concern about overseas hands being involved in sparking protests in the country has been heightened by recent reports in Macedonian media, which claimed that activist group, Canvas (Centre for Applied Nonviolent Action and Strategies), had sent out a memo to Macedonian students encouraging them to come up with effective protest ideas.

    A woman stands next to her tent in a makeshift camp in front of the government building where protesters have said they will not leave until the government resigns, in Skopje

    The leaked memo, sent three weeks before last Sunday's mass demonstrations against Nikola Gruevski's government, purportedly shows Canvas offering students who could come up with the best protest ideas for a grant of $1,500.

    Protestors for Hire and Revolution Makers Continue reading.

    macedonian
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Fri May 22, 2015 5:31 pm

    An update:

    The government and its media are in full counter-revolution mode LOL :

    I never watch TV, but browsing through channels while looking for cartoons for my daughter - I came across a (fairly) popular TV show that broadcasts live, which urged its viewers to answer the question: "Has Macedonia another alternative, or need it follow its declared path of NATO and EU integration"?...well there was a small poll - and the results were 70% Con (NATO/EU), and 30% Pro (NATO/EU)!!! This is the very first time that polls show such a devastating anti-NATO and anti-EU sentiment! The show lets people discuss why they voted the way they did live on air, and out of the "anti" camp 90% said they thought we should re-orientate ourselves towards Russia and China (the BRICS). There were some that hailed Slavic unity and Orthodoxy, and some were pragmatic and driven by what they perceive are our interests and not by ideology. Almost ALL said that America is acting like a bully in the international arena, and the EU is simply following American orders. NOBODY was EVER ALLOWED to ask questions or talk like that before here - NEVER! Especially not on national television.

    People are either coming to their senses here...or I'm entering the Twilight Zone...this is stranger than strange.
    I mean these are not University Professors, they're either retired, housewives, or old grannies/grandpas...I was so much in shock, I ended up watching the whole thing, and I never watch TV! - especially not Macedonian TV...
    Of course it could just be that they've selected the callers (which was implied by a pro-NATO caller) but being live on air I'm not sure how they could do that...and the pro-NATO/EU people were left to say their thoughts live too, so...

    On the political front - the Government and Opposition are still discussing things over in Belgium with EU bureaucrats acting as "mediators".
    There's talk of a wide government coalition (including both the Position and Opposition) but judging by how both parties act on the ground, I don't see how that would work.
    I think it's just the usual EU/US diplomats working with their journos to test the air, and sense if there's any support for that.

    All in all this has been the strangest two weeks politics-wise here since...as far back as I can remember.
    And I'm (moderately) optimistic.

    Neutrality
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Neutrality on Fri May 22, 2015 6:02 pm

    macedonian wrote:An update:

    The government and its media are in full counter-revolution mode LOL :

    I never watch TV, but browsing through channels while looking for cartoons for my daughter - I came across a (fairly) popular TV show that broadcasts live, which urged its viewers to answer the question: "Has Macedonia another alternative, or need it follow its declared path of NATO and EU integration"?...well there was a small poll - and the results were 70% Con (NATO/EU), and 30% Pro (NATO/EU)!!! This is the very first time that polls show such a devastating anti-NATO and anti-EU sentiment! The show lets people discuss why they voted the way they did live on air, and out of the "anti" camp 90% said they thought we should re-orientate ourselves towards Russia and China (the BRICS). There were some that hailed Slavic unity and Orthodoxy, and some were pragmatic and driven by what they perceive are our interests and not by ideology. Almost ALL said that America is acting like a bully in the international arena, and the EU is simply following American orders. NOBODY was EVER ALLOWED to ask questions or talk like that before here - NEVER! Especially not on national television.

    Thank you for the update. I was thinking about the possible consequences that a failed, articifial and sponsored by foreign influences revolution could bring and I did consider that it could backfire with a massive counter-revolutionary reaction. After your post seems I was right. The Macedonian people are very well aware now that someone from the outside is trying to push the country into chaos. Sense of collectivism and sovereignty seem to be stronger than ever. This failed attempt will have an effect on the surrounding countries.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Fri May 22, 2015 6:44 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Thank you for the update. I was thinking about the possible consequences that a failed, articifial and sponsored by foreign influences revolution could bring and I did consider that it could backfire with a massive counter-revolutionary reaction. After your post seems I was right. The Macedonian people are very well aware now that someone from the outside is trying to push the country into chaos. Sense of collectivism and sovereignty seem to be stronger than ever. This failed attempt will have an effect on the surrounding countries.

    NP Neutrality.
    Gotta say though - we're not out of the woods just yet. Americans/Westerners never give up easily (if ever).
    And I wouldn't say that people are all too aware (at least I don't/didn't think they are) - that's why I was gobsmacked by that TV show.
    Now I'm reading a column in the oldest newspaper here - and the journo (she's also the chief editor) is even bashing America and directly and openly calling the Americans the sponsors of color revolutions both here (where she says it was a botched one, but as I said I'm not sure the process is over) and in Syria, Libya, Chile, Vietnam, Venezuela etc...I am amazed by the comments on that article too - though not many in number - ALL of them are anti-NATO/EU, and praising the journalist for finally calling a spade a spade. Some even say that they are party members of the ruling government party, and if the PM backs away from this "fight" - they'll leave the party forever! (here's a Link >> to that artcile, but it's in Macedonian).

    As I said - I've never witnessed this here, never. Going against NATO/EU just wasn't ever allowed.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Airbornewolf on Fri May 22, 2015 8:32 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    NP Neutrality.
    Gotta say though - we're not out of the woods just yet. Americans/Westerners never give up easily (if ever).
    And I wouldn't say that people are all too aware (at least I don't/didn't think they are) - that's why I was gobsmacked by that TV show.
    Now I'm reading a column in the oldest newspaper here - and the journo (she's also the chief editor) is even bashing America and directly and openly calling the Americans the sponsors of color revolutions both here (where she says it was a botched one, but as I said I'm not sure the process is over) and in Syria, Libya, Chile, Vietnam, Venezuela etc...I am amazed by the comments on that article too - though not many in number - ALL of them are anti-NATO/EU, and praising the journalist for finally calling a spade a spade. Some even say that they are party members of the ruling government party, and if the PM backs away from this "fight" - they'll leave the party forever! (here's a Link >> to that artcile, but it's in Macedonian).

    As I said - I've never witnessed this here, never. Going against NATO/EU just wasn't ever allowed.


    its good to hear the Media connects the dots between events going on in the world. even its an opinion among many, at least people hear this version. witch is to my own as well the "correct" view on events. trying to instigate an color revolution and replace the Macedonian government with an zombie-pro NATO one. first they "herald" the democratic revolution and then immediately after turn it into an Meat shield against any NATO/US enemy or anything that threatens its interests.

    i am not sure tough, did the Macedonian people had an bad aftertaste as well with the NATO double standards with the Kosovo war?. or was it not so closely followed in the time?. just an thought, it might have given people an reminder to give these "Western voices of support" to the opposition an ugly reminder of events then next door in Kosovo at the time.  where NATO bombed Civilian infrastructure in Serbia to try to force it on its knees so Kosovo could get "the right on self determination" (just quotations, because if Kosovo had that right so has Crimea). i was just thinking, if i lived there in Macedonia at that time and seeing what the same West did with Ukraine last years i'd go pretty mad too if i got the feeling my country was next.

    i can only make assumptions why the U.S decided to instigate these "revolutions" there and now. my guest guesses are 1. to prevent the Turkish stream pipeline be built trough Greece, Macedonia, Serbia. or  2. prevent and stop growing russia influence into europe, and ultimatly the EU switching to Russia. the U.S has an policy detailed in "operation Gladio" if the U.S can not have it in Europe, no one will and rather see it burned to the ground.

    its good to hear the polls point to an overwhelming majority being against NATO and seeing the U.S as for what it is. and the EU can not be trusted as long Brussel's EU HQ exists. its the proxy-command center for U.S operations in europe as you noticed.

    personally i honestly hope on an bloodless ending into this Western-led meddling in Macedonia. but as you pointed out, "No" is something the U.S and NATO does not have in their dictionary. altough,..the EU has to think an second time after Greece and Serbia voiced their discontent at Brussels and "suggested" the U.S was probably involved. i found it positive both country's where quick to judge the situation in Macedonia.

    but if the U.S/NATO is going in against macedonia with their proxy insurgent forces, i really hope the macedonian people realise what will be the result if "they" succeed. its an Macedonia in flames and no one out of the West will come to help or rebuild. look at Ukraine's east, the only ones helping there are Russian relief convoy's. everything NATO's touched so far is still an country of smoking ruins and conflict. supporting the Macedonian government and the State's anti terror and intelligence institutions is critical to stop NATO's attempts. of course the ruling government might be unpopular and in the peace-time conditions have an almost retarded policy. but this is an serious external threat to the security and integrity of Macedonia, if they do not walk away from this and support the security with deeds and not just words. and rally the majority of the people against this very real threat they are not doing half-bad. but that of course we will have to see how they handle it.

    as you mentioned Macedonian, i find it personally an good sign so many rally behind the idea of turning to BRICS, Slavic unity and Orthodoxy. it can very well turn out an combining unifying factor if this unfolds in an negative manner. Greece South, Serbia North, both populations do not got an great opinion of NATO in general. hell, in Crete returning from Afghanistan i almost got beaten up when i was out with my squad when they (temporarily) mistaken us for the U.S servicemen that where stationed there. and Serbians are not too keen on NATO either, and i do not blame them after NATO bombed their power plants, hospitals and other critical civilian infrastructure in the Kosovo war.
    im just thinking support from both North and South of Macedonia's borders might be bigger than NATO's idiot strategists might realize. it would not exactly be the first time they would evaluate that: "local resistance is higher than anticipated".

    as an Western European im very sorry to say, but Macedonian's future and those of other's that appreciate their sovereignty and stability in eastern europe is NOT with NATO and the EU. its with BRICS. with Brussels you get privatized, before you know you are kicked off of your land your family had for generations by some EU millionaire. NATO installs weapon's and forces aimed at Russia in its drive to isolate the Bear. and leave the population in poverty to the corrupt IMF.

    I keep an eye on the thread Macedonian!, thanks for the update!.i hope the Macedonian's security forces guys that fell at Kumanovo will be remembered for their sacrifice to their country. but also fighting against this subversive NATO insurgency.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  whir on Sat May 23, 2015 10:00 am

    "Business Insider wrote:A tiny European country is making Russia extremely nervous
    ELENA HOLODNY MAY 22, 2015, 1:45 PM

    The political turmoil in a tiny Balkan republic is making Russia extremely nervous — especially because the state is an integral part of Moscow's latest gas-pipeline deal.

    Last weekend the Republic of Macedonia was rocked by antigovernment protests and pro-government counterprotests following the release of covert recordings that allegedly show the government planning to rig votes and to cover up a murder.

    The prime minister, Nikola Gruevski, is openly friendly to Moscow. He has taken a stance against the Western sanctions on Russia and supports the proposed Russian gas pipeline that would probably go through Macedonia.

    Against this backdrop, it looks like Russia is worried about the possibility of a new anti-Moscow government, which could potentially weaken the Kremlin’s position. (Especially because Moscow has traditionally used its arsenal of gas pipelines as tools of coercion in Europe.) Continue reading.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Sat May 23, 2015 11:14 am

    Yes, excellent post Airbornewolf. Agreed!
    Paul Craig Roberts has a similar analysis on his site.

    Though, I think not only Slavic and Orthodox countries should align themselves with Russia and the BRICS, but every country that is against the unipolar world that only breeds injustice.
    Vis-a-vis the Kosovo project, I was in London when NATO bombed Serbia, and went to protest near Westminster. Not a beep about those protests was heard in the British media at the time...though they drew a large crowd (my estimate is about 30.000).

    Regarding your question - during the Yugoslavia bombing - Macedonians showed very strong solidarity with Serbia, protested and even burned down the American Embassy which had to be evacuated under strong Police presence...they had to move it in a more secure place afterwards. It didn't stop the Americans' moves though.

    What's different today (I think) is that the Americans seem to be overstretched. And Russia now is NOT the same Russia from the 90's (China isn't too). The global power seems to be shifting, and many countries want to move out of the American pressure zone. Pepe Escobar had a great text about the BRICS (especially China) now outpacing the US in South America, and similarly China did the same with the AIIB bank in Asia. The initial concept of America might've been just, but what it turned into is a global monster that bombs other countries on a whim, and kills millions of civilians in the process. Nobody in their right mind can support that. No one.

    Another thing that comes out of this, whichever way this situation here ends, is that FINALLY people are speaking against NATO and the EU. As I said, they just weren't allowed to do that before. Small wonder that uninformed people were pro-NATO when ABSOLUTELY NOBODY was ever talking about the suffering that NATO/US brings to other people. Not everyone reads alternative news, and not many old-timers are on the Internet. If anything, this is a move towards that at the very least.

    I read another interesting article by that same journo/analyst that went EVEN FURTHER THIS TIME and called everyone to prepare for war with NATO/US. I'll be honest and say I'm glad that it was a journalist and not an official that said that (though she's very close with the PM) as I've seen the effect that the NATO bombing had on Serbia. Whatever happens, I'd prefer to be free rather than a puppet to others' interests. People are now openly speaking about WHY have we sent our soldiers to Afghanistan and Iraq. I've been saying that for ages! It just wasn't in vogue to question the west - NO ONE ever did. So, at least that has changed now, and we might see political parties in the future that will have an anti-NATO and anti-EU agenda. I'd certainly vote for them.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat May 23, 2015 11:19 pm

    I wouldn't get overly excited just yet, although sounds like a important change if the government media is questioning "the EU has no alternatives" line....lets see if they back their words with deeds

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Airbornewolf on Sun May 24, 2015 12:34 am

    no problem!, i am interested how this will unfold. hopefully for the better of Macedonia of course.
    i looked up the article you mentioned, he did indeed mention something simmilar in his own wording. but its just is what it is. an subversive attempt to knock Macedonia's government out of the picture to install an Pro-western one.

    and i agree with you regarding BRICS membership, so far i only see positive developments happening. monopoly's of the West are broken for the benefit of multiple countries. like the second  "panama Canal" being dug in south america by China for use by the BRICS initiative. and as how the West behaves today it almost seems its neccesary to join BRICS's millitary association agreement to safegaurd one's country against Western "democracy" or just outright NATO millitary agression.

    thanks for the update concerning the Macedonian response during the NATO bombings of Serbia/yugoslavia. i assumed the Macedonians supported the Serbs, i did not knew you guys burned down the U.S embassy Razz. of course the police protection is just a matter of diplomatic obligation. its not good for any country when some embassy staff get's lynched while in international law they are supposed to safeguard foreign Embassy's. and of course it did not stop the U.S. they are willing to sarcifice their own troops to protect their own government. a few administrative casualties is just good propaganda for them about how "savage" these Balkan people are.

    and again i fully agree with your remark. Russia today is not the Russia in the 90's. an modern society grew out of the ashes since the fall of the USSR. both Political and Military. China as well of course i agree. and Pepe Escobar hit it right on the head with the shifting world balance of power. the U.S of course is heavily meddling with Venezuela as well, i do not think the U.S expected entire South America to Venezuela's cause either. it really is as you said, that the world is trying to get rid of this U.S pressure.

    The U.S is indeed overstretched with projecting its millitary power globally. so overstretched they began deploying their National Gaurd to posts in Asia and Europe. National guard are meant for home-defense only. its really seeing an Roman empire crumble. even so tough, sadly the U.S still seems perfectly capable wrecking things in the world.

    funny enough i asked myself plenty of times if the U.S really stuck to their ideals ever, or where the ideal's of the U.S got turned into an monstrous abomination of continuous war and death. i think during and after world war 2 this certain idea grew somewhere in Washington that America should lead "the free world". and that both WW2 and the Cold war just kept the shell on the nut as an figure of speech. and after the cold war the U.S saw itself as the winner of the cold war and the world would since then be its own little sandbox to do with as it saw fit. anyway,  because of the USSR-U.S.A standoff things just did not get as much attention as they should have. a short mention of things the U.S forces done that no other nation did since ww2.
    1. nuclear bombing of another nation's population. Japan.
    2. Vietnam, top on that list is the chemical warfare the U.S used on an massive scale there that causes health problems and birth defects till this day. but let's not rule out entire villages massacred by U.S G.I's as well.
    3. Korea, during the Korean War the U.S considered again using the nuclear bomb in North Korea when they where losing the war.
    4. Guantanamo Bay prison, no further comment of what happens there.
    5. Iraq, residing uranium poisoning by fired U.S ammunition. same as Vietnam, lots of radioactive diseases and birth defects.

    these are some of the major things that for me personally that the top in the U.S government always have been insane from the start. if i had to mention all the murderous dictators the U.S supported to keep their populations supressed with money and american hardware i'd be here all night. but really, what the U.S done trough history they still do that exactly to this day. its really jaw-dropping to see the U.S millitary in action in Afghanistan and see the same level of incompetence, arrogance, shortsightedness and just being very, very bad losers that they where trough history when you read an history book about U.S wars.
    of course nobody can support this policy that destroy's nation's and lives for just having an different opinion than Washington. again, its good that BRICS is rising to balance matter's out.
    perhaps it takes an massive millitary blow to the U.S to let it realise it can not do what it does in the world unpunished. besides a lot of huffing an puffing the U.S cant do anything in response in the conventional sense of warfare. it would mean they need to relocate their forces, that either means letting Asia or Europe go as they are stretched paper-thin everywhere.

    back to Macedonia tough, its indeed still an volatile situation in Macedonia. but its good people are catching up about what is going on. the NATO/EU/U.S history of double-standards and millitary interventions globally. i admit tough, it still sounds a bit awkward when i am saying that while not so long ago i was still part of that monstrosity of NATO and now telling people to watch out for it like its death itself.  its not too late for people there to catch up on the outside threat by NATO, the information available should be appealing to people there since NATO repeat's its policy's over and over and it happened north of Macedonia in Kosovo itself in the 90's. supporting radical scumbag's/insurgent's to do its foreign policy. to act as NATO's Shadow army. examples are the KLA, Taliban, ISIS, Right Sector/Maidan. journalists there should indeed inform about the NATO war background, inform its happening to Macedonia too and the most likely reasons why Macedonia became an target.
    of course not everyone follows events going on around the world, most just go trough their lives with toughts that remain with paying the bills, keeping an steady job and raising an family. not many are aware of an sudden threat of Conflict. but as i hear it just might be catching up with people fast enough to bring up this discussion among the Macedonian people before things might go spiraling out of hand.
    the Macedonian "tigers" unit and RDU supposedly caught the insurgent's at an good moment even with how events unfolded. the insurgent's where meanth to split into small groups to strike government targets around Macedonia. making them harder to find of course if they are everywhere in 4-5 man groups. someone in Intelligence was very perceptive there interpreting intell and someone else very quick to get the Macedonian troops in there to "neutralise" that scum before they'd split up and executed their attacks.

    Also Russia has linked the Turkish pipeline project to the recent terror attempts in Macedonia. Lavrov said that in an joint statement with an Serbian official.
    also, Serbia told in brussels in an meeting "to stop behaving like an ostrich and sticking their heads in the sand and see what really is going on in eastern europe". stating the Ukraine Scenario is now being attempted in Macedonia by outside powers.

    there is no denying that U.S/NATO is ready to see Macedonians die and the country burn to just twist Macedonia to its will trough subversive actions.
    i really can not describe it more positive than that, Macedonian troops killed 10 terrorists and captured an additional 28. thats an platoon size incursion against Macedonia. organisation, gear and manpower like that do not come out of thin air. it just cant be more of an "declaration of war" than that.
    you know?. its better late than never for people questioning what their country's are doing and for what. im still waiting for mine to finally wake up lol.  
    i fully understand your motivations to remain independent and not having to associate with NATO. and nobody should associate with it that has any sort of conscience and moral compass. like the saying goes "better to die on your feet than live on your knees".
    it would be just bullshit if Macedonia would have to live up to that saying and end up fighting against foreign NATO merc's and other sad excuses for human life. i rather have the Macedonian Intelligence, perhaps with maybe some "friendly" help from next door neighbors staging a few "accidents" cold war style with agitator's there. i mean, accidents happen all the time right?.  Cool oh no, that american NGO tripped over his cat and broke his neck falling down the stairs. so very tragic.
    .. wait, that NATO consultant got crushed by an falling Piano?. what are the odds?.
    anyway im sure your guys are more creative than that tough...

    hopefully Macedonia either get Anti-Nato/EU party's and start looking east for an mutual benificial economic/millitary co-operation. or those party's will form in the future. and in your position i'd definatly vote for them too!. so far things seem going into the right direction. hopefully things stay without further bloodshed, but i guess we just only can wait of what Macedonian's security apparatus is doing in the shadows and if they remain ahead of the NATO proxy army.

    i'd say how fast they where upon that +/- 40 insurgents in Kumanovo was impressive. hopefully those involved in that can hold on to the initiative.


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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Regular on Sun May 24, 2015 3:56 am

    Sorry for me being so dumb last few post about Macedonia. I have serbian friends who explained me what was going in Macedonia. They literally blamed everything on Albanians and at the time I had few shots so I went full Milosevic. But yeah, Macedonian, stay safe man. Thanks for insight guys

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Sun May 24, 2015 11:14 am

    Thanks again for that great post Airbornewolf, we seem to share the same opinions.
    This is especially valuable for me because you're an ex-NATO soldier, who came to see things as they really are - past the propaganda we're all being spoon-fed (both here and there).
    As I said - everyone should gravitate towards what's right and just - not just countries/peoples that share same religion and/or culture, and your post is great example of that. I truly salute that!
    BTW - that Roman Empire parallel is just SPOT ON! I've been saying the very same thing for quite some time now.

    @Regular: your post wasn't dumb mate, you just weren't informed enough as to what's truly going on here.
    I wouldn't feel bad about it since the propaganda machine is in overload in the past few decades making sure NO ONE understands what's the essence of the problem (both here, in Ukraine, Serbia/Kosovo, Syria, Iraq etc).
    It's always painted as a fight for democracy which never seems to happen in Saudi Arabia or Qatar - they seem to always fight terrorists - never "freedom fighters".
    I'm not trying to say that the Albanians aren't at all to blame, I'm saying that they are merely foot soldiers for the Americans. And not all but some. And you know, when you want to kill a snake - you go for the head, not the tail.
    And beneath that black and white picture that the usual suspects paint (the propaganda machine that is the BBC, CNN, NBC, DW, DPA, The Guardian etc) there are complexities that they exploit and never try to explain, painting a confusing picture (muddying the water) for those that want and try to understand, so that the more-than-average reader just goes berserk and ends-up not knowing who is fighting whom, and what for...and is confused as to who's on the side of justice and who is isn't. Finally, the reader just gives up caring to understand and is an easier subject for manipulation. That's their modus operandi - and it USED to work! It's failing in the past few years, but stubbornly they push on with it because there's nothing better they can come up with. That's why they feel threatened by the likes of Russia Today and PressTV...and ended up making even dumber moves because of it.

    I think that's the whole point of forums like these where a local can explain how things stand, his own view of things at least. Mine in this case.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Sun May 24, 2015 11:32 am

    Oh, when I say our country is ran by imbeciles, this is what I mean:

    Attack On Macedonian Journalist Condemned

    RFE/RL wrote:The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has joined media organizations in condemning an attack on a Macedonian journalist who has been critical of the government.
    Sase Ivanovski, the owner of the online news portal Maktel, was attacked by two unidentified people on May 22, sustaining injuries to his head and back that required medical treatment.
    Dunja Mijatovic, the OSCE's representative on freedom of the media, condemned the incident on May 23, saying it is one of a string of attacks and threats against journalists in recent months.
    Mijatovic called on Macedonian officials to conduct a complete investigation into the incident.
    Local media organizations say such attacks often result in the culprits not being detained.
    Macedonia has been stuck in a political crisis as Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski has been trading accusations with opposition leader Zoran Zaev over a wiretap scandal that apparently shows corruption within the government.

    Link >>

    Now, the fifth column journos and NGOs are using this as an attack on Putin and Russia, saying that our Government is using the same methods as their friend Vladimir. angry
    And this guy is a freekin NOBODY! No one cares what he writes, at least not the general public. This just gives ammo to the fifth column, and the imbeciles sitting in Government are guilty for it.
    Slim chance of it being a false flag too, because this is exactly how "our" PM works. The only one who could've done this as a false flag are the Americans, and I'm not sure if they'd take the risk at this point.
    I obviously put nothing past them, but even so the Govt. should have seen this coming miles away!

    Just angry

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 24, 2015 2:38 pm

    macedonian wrote:Oh, when I say our country is ran by imbeciles, this is what I mean:

    Attack On Macedonian Journalist Condemned



    RFE/RL wrote:The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has joined media organizations in condemning an attack on a Macedonian journalist who has been critical of the government.
    Sase Ivanovski, the owner of the online news portal Maktel, was attacked by two unidentified people on May 22, sustaining injuries to his head and back that required medical treatment.
    Dunja Mijatovic, the OSCE's representative on freedom of the media, condemned the incident on May 23, saying it is one of a string of attacks and threats against journalists in recent months.
    Mijatovic called on Macedonian officials to conduct a complete investigation into the incident.
    Local media organizations say such attacks often result in the culprits not being detained.
    Macedonia has been stuck in a political crisis as Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski has been trading accusations with opposition leader Zoran Zaev over a wiretap scandal that apparently shows corruption within the government.

    Link >>

    Now, the fifth column journos and NGOs are using this as an attack on Putin and Russia, saying that our Government is using the same methods as their friend Vladimir. angry
    And this guy is a freekin NOBODY! No one cares what he writes, at least not the general public. This just gives ammo to the fifth column, and the imbeciles sitting in Government are guilty for it.
    Slim chance of it being a false flag too, because this is exactly how "our" PM works. The only one who could've done this as a false flag are the Americans, and I'm not sure if they'd take the risk at this point.
    I obviously put nothing past them, but even so the Govt. should have seen this coming miles away!

    Just angry

    Radio Free Europe, the same people who claimed the Afghan Mujahadeen where freedom fighters back in 1980's.... lol1

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Mon May 25, 2015 7:19 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Radio Free Europe, the same people who claimed the Afghan Mujahadeen where freedom fighters back in 1980's.... lol1
    Yeah, I know who they are (the media arm of the CIA), it was just a matter of posting a link in English, since all others I could find were in Macedonian.
    Besides, the "Opposition Media" just recycle what's said in that article anyway.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 26, 2015 10:41 pm



    So legit...Oh and the US president said the Contras were the moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers...

    So yah the US was built by a bunch of racist Narcos...

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 27, 2015 2:52 pm

    ^^ That's a great article and pic...almost forgot about it KoTeMoRe, thanks for sharing.

    I now think that "our" government will cave-in to American pressure.
    Don't want to post rumors, but if what I've heard just now is indeed true, than it's either that or open war.
    The only thing that's left hanging now is the Russian reaction. We'll see how things unfold, and will keep you posted.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 27, 2015 3:00 pm

    That's the point with the Balkans and non-Westerners in general. We don't forget.

    As for caving in, I think the new boss will see the same realities as the old boss, and this circus will restart (think about Ukraine).

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 27, 2015 3:07 pm

    True, we don't forget.
    As for the new boss...it'll be Brushington again. I had such high hopes this time...nevermind, let it play out and we'll see what happens in the end.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Airbornewolf on Thu May 28, 2015 10:35 pm

    macedonian wrote:True, we don't forget.
    As for the new boss...it'll be Brushington again. I had such high hopes this time...nevermind, let it play out and we'll see what happens in the end.

    from where im standing and viewing information coming out of the Macedonian government.... yes i'd say there is some poor judgement calls in statements lately.

    looking to the EU for the answers, because the EU has been so good for the Neighborhood around Macedonia in the last few decades. go ask the Serb's how they feel about "European Value's" when NATO bombs hit their hospitals, factory's and power plants or the Greeks how its like living the European golden dream in wealth and be part of the caring EU family. the greek economy suffered more damage to its economy because of Brussels than an foreign invading army could do bombing and occupying Greece!.

    i know im Ranting to myself Macedonian and its nothing new for you. but still, what a moron that Prime minister. i hoped for at least some sort of awakening in the current government after being targeted by foreign subversive actions. standing there and "paying tribute" to the Fallen Macedonian troops is nice being an politician, but they better back up that sacrifice with hard action and not let it be in vain. if they knew it or not those Macedonian security troops did an excellent operation under the circumstances and stopped impending terror attacks on Macedonian targets. if Politicians do not understand that fact they should not be allowed to rule in such an volatile time.  do they really want to sacrifice their troops by inaction and poor judgement on their part like Yanukovich did with the Berkut?.

    maybe the government does not have the balls to see it trough, still.... untill it happens. it did not happen yet. i know 100,000 pro government protesters do not come out of nowhere if there is no support while the pro-U.S puppet protest barely could get 10.000 with 4 months preparation in advance.

    when asked about the russian flags in the pro government protest the premier just waved it away as "insignificant". really?. what monkey can not employ some common sense and reason to himself the question why those flags are among the Macedonian population protesting after Serbia?. after Greece?, after Ukraine?. foreign "terrorists" intercepted of 40 men strong on home ground?. border guard posts captured by Albanian insurgents!?!. its amazing.

    i mean, this is just playing dumb and stupid. there are half a dozen of reasons the current Macedonian government could get away with taking an hard tone with foreign meddling. not only could they get away with it but it should be their duty to their country to defend Macedonia against this EU policy of destruction of foreign nations.

    of course i know you guys there in Macedonia cant help it either what the Government does. its just i thought for an second the writing on the wall could not be more obvious for them after events.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Fri May 29, 2015 7:46 am

    You said it best Airbornewolf, I have nothing to add to that.

    What's even more intriguing is that now BOTH Macedonia and Serbia are drifting away from Russia. I was hoping that FINALLY those imbeciles in Government have made a proper choice, but tough luck when it comes to such corrupt and idiotic people. I'm raging about this:

    Premier: Serbia ready to reduce dependence on Russian gas

    Ap wrote:TIRANA, Albania (AP) -- In a major policy shift, the Serbian prime minister said his country will accept U.S. calls to reduce dependency on Russian gas by adding an American-backed pipeline that would bring gas to Europe from Azerbaijan.
    more >>

    Serbia Drifts Away from Russia, Commits to Decreasing Gas Reliance on Moscow

    Natgas EU wrote:As widely anticipated, Serbia continues making headlines, with Prime Minister Aleksandar Vučić saying that Belgrade will take on board Washington’s proposal to decrease its energy reliance on Russia.
    “Regarding energy safety, energy security, we are ready to diversify the sources of gas for Serbia, which is very important for our American friends as well,” he said in an interview with The Associated Press.
    Despite confirming Belgrade’s intention to maintain good ties with Moscow, his declaration marks a significant policy shift.
    more >>

    Then you have "our" PM saying that we're ready to join Turkish Stream, but ONLY AFTER Russia and the EU come to an agreement about it...which is NEVER obviously. Our politicians have no backbone! None! All it took is a little bit of pressure from the Americans, and voila - they show their true sleazy colors!
    What I've heard is that the Americans threatened their way into this...even mentioning military occupation. Even so, these people showed no integrity...NONE!
    Just makes me angry and embarrassed!

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Fri May 29, 2015 8:00 am

    You know, if I were kinda naive...and very foolish - I'd still be hoping that this is all a part of some elaborate plan agreed with Russia.
    But I'm not a young man anymore and don't believe in fairy tales.

    It's just Balkan politicians being Balkan politicians again angry

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  flamming_python on Fri May 29, 2015 11:58 am

    That's a shame.

    It just shows that these countries are as malleable to outside pressure as Bulgaria is and can't make firm sovereign decisions as to what regards their own economic development and territory. Greece, although it hasn't publically had its final say on this matter yet - is likely the same way; they're just playing tough and flirting with Russia for the leverage it gives them over their debt negotiations. I fully expect they'll ultimately fold too. Expected more from Serbia really, and Macedonia for that matter - after the recent public rallying and politicians' fiery speeches against EU/Western pressure there.

    Feel sorry for Hungary; they're the only ones with any balls there.

    No matter. Like I said, the original plan was just to build the Turk Stream to Turkey, and let the Europeans worry about how to get gas from there. Honestly it's the only workable plan and always was.
    Russia will lose a little profit and potential influence over Balkan politics, but it's really no big deal - experience has shown that spending money and energy on the Balkans is futile and that there are no reliable partners there.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Neutrality on Fri May 29, 2015 12:12 pm

    Didn't expect Serbia to be so supportive of American interest after being bombed to pieces not so long ago. Ignoring history should be a crime, Churchill was right.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri May 29, 2015 1:28 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Didn't expect Serbia to be so supportive of American interest after being bombed to pieces not so long ago. Ignoring history should be a crime, Churchill was right.

    So what is Serbia going to do? Join what transit route? Which pipeline? Nabucco is as good as dead. Azerbaijan can't sell enough to cover the needs. LNG will be overly expensive and Interconnectors will be owned by majors. So whaddabout Third Energy Package?

    It hasn't much to do with support. It's politicians doeing their thang...They're Yes Men, they can't deal in sentiments, pride or even logic. Oh well, sorry Serbia, you could have had some balls, now you're one of us eunuchs. Heheheheh, more frustration for the future, more bad blood to spill.  Nothing more to see.

    On another level, I hope Turkey loves Azerbaijan too beaucoup, cos the Azeris are about to have a colored Revolution in the next decade. One by one, they'll fall like toy soldiers.

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