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    FYROM inter-ethnic violence

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    max steel

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  max steel on Mon May 18, 2015 9:14 pm

    People Power or Western Meddling? Macedonia Unrest Reveals Differing Views




    The recent political protests in Macedonia calling for the resignation of the country's leader have divided opinion across the world, with some viewing the protests as an example of people power in action, while others say the uprising is being stoked by the West as part of larger geopolitical game.
    Anti-government protesters wave Albanian and Macedonian flags during a demonstration in Skopje, Macedonia, May 17, 2015

    Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of the Macedonian capital of Skopje over the weekend, calling for the resignation of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, with opponents accusing the PM of widespread corruption, mass spying on the population and engaging in undemocratic practices.

    The protest was the largest in a series of recent demonstrations against Gruevski's government, following the release of covert recordings that purportedly showed government officials plotting to engage in vote rigging, and even the covering up of a murder.

    Opposition political figures have accused Gruevski of being behind the malpractice, however the prime minister has denied the allegations, saying that opponents had tampered with the audio in an attempt to frame his government.

    Vladimir Pandovski, Skopje-based political analyst told Sputnik that the wiretapping scandal enveloping the government was fraudulent, and said the protests in the country were "scripted and staged."

    "Everything that is happening in Macedonia has been scripted and staged. We’ve seen this before; it’s a mix of comedy and tragedy. The so-called wiretapping scandal has been the biggest piece of comedy the public has ever seen… and honestly, no one is buying it – everyone is aware that this is an attempt to create a new Maidan, like in Ukraine."


    An Ethnic Problem or a Political One?


    Central to recent events in Macedonia has been the debate over whether the country is suffering from an increase in ethnic based tension between Macedonians and the country's significant ethnic Albanian minority, which accounts for about 25 percent of the overall Macedonian population.


    A recent shooting in the Macedonian city of Kumanovo, which claimed the lives of eight police officers and 14 ethnic Albanian fighters, has also been the source of much debate.

    Government figures said the attacks came from ethnic-Albanian terrorists calling for the creation of an Albanian state within Macedonia, sparking fears the country may be heading for another civil war, similar to the one fought between Macedonian forces and Albanian paramilitary groups in 2001.


    However, Gruevski's opponents were highly critical of the timing of the shooting, accusing the government of staging the attacks to highlight the apparent ethnic tension and to draw attention away from the government's current woes.

    To show solidarity against the claims of ethnic-based violence within the country, many people carrying both Macedonian and Albanian flags took part in Sunday's protest in Skopje.


    Dr James Ker-Lindsay, researcher in Balkan studies at the London School of Economics, told Sputnik he doesn't think Macedonia is suffering from an outburst in tension between Macedonians and Albanians.

    "I think we've got to be careful about this idea that this is necessarily an ethnic problem. What we have essentially in Macedonia is a political problem at the moment."

    Dr Ker-Lindsay believes the accusations of malpractice against the government have led many people to question whether the recent attacks were part of a separatist movement, as claimed by Gruevski.

    "At first, public opinion was all a bit skeptical about this, but as the revelations keep coming out, people are starting to turn against the government," he said.

    "What has happened is that a lot of people in Macedonia are saying 'this is just all becoming a bit too convenient'. What Macedonia needs is a transition government to be put in place and proper democratic elections held."

    Outside Intervention: The Global Power Game


    As the debate over whether Macedonia is experiencing an ethnic or political problem continues, attention has turned to the cause of the recent uprisings, and whether western interests had a role to play in sparking the turn against Gruevski's government.

    While Macedonia's main opposition leader Zoran Zaev, whose party organised Sunday's mass demonstration in Skopje, claimed the protest was an example of the Macedonian people taking a stand against the government, others have suggested that the flames for the recent uprising were stirred from outside the country as part of a strategic power game.


    The Russian Foreign Ministry, reacting to media reports of the arrest of a Montenegrin, who assisted ethnic Albanian extremists in Macedonia, released a statement saying there was:

    "Convincing proof of plans, launched from the outside, to destabilize the political situation in the country."

    As well as attempts to "push" the country into a "color revolution."

    The ministry also said that western organizers behind such rallies against the government were targeting "countries that are attracted by the NATO bait."

    Backing up the claim that outside involvement has triggered the destabilization of Macedonia, Dusan Prorokovic, an expert in Balkan affairs told Sputnik that the recent trouble and perception of ethnic tension has been stirred up by western actors.


    Prorokovic told Sputnik that the support for action against Gruevski's government was part of a geopolitical game to try and increase western influence in the region and prevent the creation of the proposed Turkish stream project, which plans to transport Russian gas to Europe via Turkey and the Balkans.

    "The concept of Greater Albania is once again relevant but it won't see any progress without the help of the North Atlantic bloc.

    "I think why all of that happened is more linked to Turkish stream and the defeat of the US in Ukraine, than to local Albanian interests."



    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150518/1022270912.html#ixzz3aWFMDwZs
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon May 18, 2015 10:07 pm

    While this article from sputnik (an excellent intelligence site btw) is a vast improvement from the usual publications, casting light in much more dimensions than the simplistic and naive approach of most journalists so far, I have to say that the latest developments strengthen those saying that we have to do with a new orange revolution in the sense that the way opposition handles this crisis so far looks like it came straight out of CIA's textbook. My feeling though is that at least for the moment Gruevski is too strong to go down, instead he will attempt to kneel to his NATO overlords trying to stay in power, according to the intelligence I get from reliable sources following the NATO summit currently taking place in Budapest.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Cyberspec on Tue May 19, 2015 1:11 am

    The pro government rally has passed drawing close to 100 000 people, more than 3 times the size of the opposition one....apparently the biggest rally ever.



    So it looks like the opposition doesn't have the required critical mass to stage a forceful change....no word either on the opposition maidan style camp either so far....I guess this will be a drawn out struggle and not a blitzkrieg.

    Any updates from the ground from our MK members?
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    kvs

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  kvs on Tue May 19, 2015 5:57 am

    Isn't it funny how street mob size contests are the new normal for democracy. This is ludicrous.
    No crowd could replace the millions of actual voters. The west would never tolerate a crowd of
    any size dictating who is in government. They would screech about "due process". It's all about
    "due process" in the west but mob street theater everywhere else.

    It is good to see the honest people in Macedonia try to actively prevent the CIA rent-a-crowd coup
    (e.g. Iran 1956, Ukraine 2014). It is time for people of the world to reject the western media, western
    NGOs and assorted other tools of western imperial power. In Ukraine these vermin robbed the majority
    of their voice. They want to do this everywhere as they restore colonial control.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 19, 2015 9:23 am

    kvs wrote:Isn't it funny how street mob size contests are the new normal for democracy.   This is ludicrous.
    No crowd could replace the millions of actual voters.   The west would never tolerate a crowd of
    any size dictating who is in government.   They would screech about "due process".   It's all about
    "due process" in the west but mob street theater everywhere else.

    It is good to see the honest people in Macedonia try to actively prevent the CIA rent-a-crowd coup
    (e.g. Iran 1956, Ukraine 2014).  It is time for people of the world to reject the western media, western
    NGOs and assorted other tools of western imperial power.    In Ukraine these vermin robbed the majority
    of their voice.  They want to do this everywhere as they restore colonial control.    

    They're not trying to prevent a coup. They're trying to avoid a civil war in the long run.
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 9:48 am

    OK, didn't want to post here in the last couple of days because of two reasons:

    First - I didn't want to continue arguing with the nazi GoldenDawn troll as it takes too much of my time and takes away from the discussion at hand (as you can see - GarryB I did take your advice even without reading it), and
    Second - I didn't want to judge how things will be moving prematurely.

    After the pro-Government rally - things are a bit clearer though, so let me share my thoughts (sorry for the long post, but it's three days worth of info):

    The most interesting stuff is that during the pro-Government rally (here in Skopje) the Prime Minister was VERY critical of "certain outside" influence, and he named America in everything but name.
    He said that "those that wanted the Ukrainian scenario for Macedonia" will fail. Again, he pointed to the Americans in everything but name. The pro-government media is blasting that "someone expected a Maidan, but didn't expect the Donbas" and: Macedonia is NOT Maidan but it's Donbas  Laughing  LOL. (Those are actual headlines) Relating to the massiveness of the pro-Government protests, as oppose to that of the opposition (roughly twice the size).
    The PM then (again in not-so-latent manner) named the Soros foundation, and the media it supports as the main propaganda machine, working for "certain intelligence centers"!
    After listening to the speeches by those on stage - I think the very next thing for the west to do will be economic sanctions against us. Either that, or just bomb us (provided that the "color revolution" thing is off).
    The pro-Government protests were interesting from other aspects as well... There were as many Serbian Flags, as there were Macedonian ones. A few Russian flags, and a few pics of Snowden too.

    What's even more interesting is the statement by the SERBIAN Prime Minister given in Brussels: He stated that "unlike other politicians/countries Serbia will not be joining the protests, and will not interfere in the internal politics of foreign countries". This is obviously a counter to the Americans and other westerners whose Ambassadors joined the pro-Opposition protests the day before. At the same time Lavrov (also from Brussels) has stated that "someone" is trying to destabilize Macedonia "from the outside" Voice of Russia - Macedonian).

    So to me it looks like what was said during the pro-Government protests, and in Brussels (both by the Serbian and Russian formins) is somehow coordinated.
    I've said previously that there were some rumors about the Russian Embassy here in Skopje tripling its staff for unknown reasons. This might be it.

    So, we'll see what the future holds, but seems we've got some interesting times ahead of us.

    At the moment, the Opposition leader and the Prime Minister are holding "European sponsored" talks in Strasbourg aimed at "diffusing the political situation"...
    The Europeans seem to be keen to avoid any bloodshed, but I'm not sure that the Americans share that conviction. I think that the Americans underestimated "our" politicos here... And that's another thing that the Prime Minister mentioned during his rally speech - that "foreign centers" have promised the Opposition leader (in an SMS message, no less) that he'll be in power within a few months, and that he (the PM) will make sure it doesn't happen! He did show some spine these days (got to give him that) but I'm not sure how long that will last. I mean the fckuer does love power, but I don't think he'll be able to stand up to the Americans (unless he's got some serious backing).
    He then went on to openly confront them, and said: more than a few months have passed - and yet they (the Opposition) are not in power. It was surreal listening to that, I never thought I'd see the day when "our" politicians stand up to Brussels and Washington...
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 9:55 am

    And another interesting read by Korybko for Sputnik.
    This one is regarding Bulgaria's pro-American actions.

    Don't know if it's been posted before.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed May 20, 2015 9:56 am

    macedonian wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:You rats treason your own people. What cleansing? You are the one abolish your Slavic blood and calling your comic DIALECT Macedonian. Macedonian! my @ss lol1
    Macedonian where always speaking Greek commie, you are speaking a DIALECT almost inseparable to Serbians and very much related to Bulgarians.
    So what you're saying is that Bulgarian and Serbian are same?
    Sorry if I'm missing something...you DID call me both a Serbian and a Bulgarian, only to call me a Turk/Albanian/Gypsy later..what do you think of me than?!
    And what do you need of Serbs and Russians? Tell us greek.

    Hannibal Barca wrote:That's why you understand them..... like you fullish acknowledged yesterday.
    Come on tell us... what you teach in your schools. What you teach your kids. Why the fcuk you have MY SYMBOL in your flag. Come one strip yourself we want to laugh, you have, as a country, no shame anyway. It is the first time ever that this happens in human history, no shame really!
    We teach our kids MACEDONIAN! THEY FIRST LEARN CYRILLIC, THEN LATIN.
    Your symbol?! In our flag?! Point to it. Just what is your symbol?!
    First time in human history...no, sorry to disappoint - Israelis do the same as you do (I've explained it time and time again here). You just can't seem to bring yourself to answer properly! Golden Dawn Nazi Fcuk!

    Hannibal Barca wrote:I know about Lavrov, I know about the Turkish stream. I respect the theory but I don't adopt it. You know why? Because I know what is taking place there. I fully understand Albanians that live there for about the same 60 years you live as well in this place.... If they want to live in Macedonia they can come in Greece, but they prefer to live there and they are the only minority that have the guts to be proud of being Albanians so I have to give them a point actually.
    What point? Are you Greek or Macedonian? What is your country? Greece or Macedonia?
    Expand on that point: Why do the Russians call us Macedonia? Do they know less than what Golden Dawn Nazi Greeks do?
    Please answer!

    Hannibal Barca wrote:As of Russian foreign policy, despite being a firm advocate of Putin, I think it's a joke. Only Americans are even worse. As an example, 2 years ago this morons in Moscow were considering their greatest national threat China... go figure!
    China is a great country, and certainly a threat to other great countries around it - yet you're grasping at straws here.
    LET ANYONE KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT COUNTRIES THAT DON'T SPONSOR YOURS!
    Now you need some money, and voila THERE'S RUSSIA. You couldn't care less about anything else, it's interest you're after ain't it?!

    I thank you for showing people what Greeks truly represent.

    (Oh, anytime you want to challenge me to show evidence of Greeks hating EVERYTHING Slavic and not just Macedonians, give us a shout - I'd be more than happy to oblige)

    A nationality that has to prove it's uniqueness by constantly bashing and stealing the history of another( Ukraine->Russia, Macedonia-> Bulgaria) is no nationality.

    Ontopic, this never would've happened if the FYROM authorities accepted "refugees" from the terrorist "state" of kosovo. All albanian communities should be integrated, while the ones who are violent and calling for islamic expansion should be evicted. Although the "human rights" NGOs will rage and squeel it won't amtter since FYROM is far more connected politically with Russia.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 9:57 am

    What is funny is how the Western MSM doesn't seem to notice many of the tapes "obtained" by the "opposition" prove links between Sami Ukshini and the current Albanian majority parties back in 2012/2013. Yet no one takes them at face value for some reason...guess why?

    Those parties are also very much sponsored by USAID and were pet projects from RFE/RL.

    We're worse than in the 1990's. Sad situation for the Balkans.

    Bojanchev:

    There was very little settlement from Kosovo. However there's little you can do to stop in and out trafic. There is even little you can do to "integrate" Albanians, since the Macedonian Albanophones are even more conservative than Kosovars.

    On a side note, for many Macedonian Albanophones the appeal of Gangland Kosovo is too great. You can make good money since 2008 in whatever illegal activity you want. FFS Albania has a big issue with the second hand car market because Kosovo dumps ubercheap stolen cars since there's no control whatsoever. We're speaking about what was MercedesLand, when you could check for your stolen Mercedes in Germany and had 50% chances it was here.

    It is Thugovo, capital Mafiashtina. For real.
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 10:04 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:A nationality that has to prove it's uniqueness by constantly bashing and stealing the history of another( Ukraine->Russia, Macedonia-> Bulgaria) is no nationality.
    Ontopic, this never would've happened if the FYROM authorities accepted "refugees" from the terrorist "state" of kosovo. All albanian communities should be integrated, while the ones who are violent and calling for islamic expansion should be evicted. Although the "human rights" NGOs will rage and squeel it won't amtter since FYROM is far more connected politically with Russia.

    Read Korybko's text that I've posted only a post before yours kid, then come back.
    And no one is bashing Bulgaria, if anything, I've said that all Slavic nations are similar. Stop that big-empire-Bulgaria propaganda, and keep to the topic at hand.
    Trust me - you don't want to go in all that, as I'll post some stuff here, and you'll leave the thread in shame.

    No can we please go back on-topic?!
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 20, 2015 11:00 am

    Macedonian, thanks for the update.

    I do hope that Korubko's view that Gruevski has FSB backing is true. I doubt he would be openly chalenging them without some sort of back up.

    In the end, I don't think the western powers really care who is in power in MK as long as they "don't stray of the path" so to speak
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 11:30 am

    Found Lavrov's statement in English:

    Moscow believes the events in Macedonia are being orchestrated from outside, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday.

    Sputnik wrote:MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Lavrov said that outside pressure is being put on current Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski for not agreeing to follow Western-backed sanctions against Russia and is being blamed for incompetency.
    “There are attempts to pressure Gruevski’s government for refusing to join in on sanctions against Russia and for backing the Turkish Stream [gas] pipeline [construction].”
    Moscow is concerned over the situation in Macedonia, Lavrov said during a speech before the Russian upper house of parliament.

    “The Macedonian events are quite brutal and are being orchestrated from outside.”
    Link >>


    And another analysis by a Serb (and former Yugoslav) diplomat:

    Unrest in Macedonia Follows ‘Regime Change’ Scenarios Used Worldwide

    Sputnik wrote:Current developments in Macedonia go along with "regime change" scenarios that have been used in Serbia and other European states and are currently being seen in Latin America, Zivadin Jovanovic, a Serbian diplomat and former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Yugoslavia told Sputnik.
    More >>

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  whir on Wed May 20, 2015 12:23 pm

    Interesting developments, thanks for the update.

    Mimicking modus operandi with mass demonstrations and public denunciation goes against the expected violence against demonstrators narrative that was being constructed last week, next phase is probably extortion.
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed May 20, 2015 2:26 pm

    I started going through this post to pick out the insults and just leave the factual elements relevant to this thread topic.

    As you can see there is nothing left.

    Of the two members out of control on this thread one refrains from being baited and has his posts unaltered... you on the other hand have let your emotions get the better of you, so I ask you the question (no comments from anyone else please) are you mature and calm enough to continue posting here without a few days break to think about things like why you come here and what benefit you get from abusing another member of this forum... you do know that macedonian didn't personally enslave all those Albanians and if he did our recent arrival from Albania might be the one getting warned... he is not.

    I will be carefully reading your next few posts on this forum and make a decision on whether to give you a break or not... either way I suggest you don't post in this thread or any like it again.

    GarryB
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 2:51 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote: OK I will whip your ass one more, and stop telling that we are arguing cause we are not. You get slaughtered and throw empty words hoping to get sympathy, like a pathetic little thug.

    Hannibal Barca wrote:So you don't pretend to be stupid, you really are!

    Hannibal Barca wrote:-I really don;t know what you doing here. You are obviously uneducated and intentionally a liar.

    Hannibal Barca wrote:American say the speak ENGLISH pricvk, not American...... and countries don;t steal national symbols from each other, only artificial vassals do so....

    Hannibal Barca wrote:you are the only shit you do it and this is A CLEAR ACT OF WAR!!! from your criminal cancerous artificial crap.

    Hannibal Barca wrote:......Russians no that Macedonians are Greeks and acknowledge that you are an artificial shit, but the do as uncle Sam please. They burn and kill their own people for fcking shake and they just watch!!!

    I'll let your own words speak for themselves.
    Among that pathetic drivel there are actually points worth answering, and points where you are actually right, but I have not the energy nor the will to get into a discussion with you.
    Good day to you.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  etaepsilonk on Wed May 20, 2015 3:46 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:I live in Grece, I am Greek PART OF WHICH WAS IS AND WILL EVER BE THE ONE AND ONLY MACEDONIA.
    Macedonians where Greeks, they were looking Greek, they were SPEAKING GREEK, they were worshiping the Greek Gods and the were participating in the Greek league of city states since the dawn of time (about 12th century BC actually)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    In the area once occupied by the ancient kingdom of Macedonia there were NUMEROUS conquerors through history...... Romans, Turks, Bulgarians.... nobody ever even thought of stealing the history and the name and the symbols and anything, you are the only shit you do it and this is A CLEAR ACT OF WAR!!! from your criminal cancerous artificial crap.

    Could you tell me what standarts there are to define countries as ''artificial'' and ''true''?

    Due to short human lifespan you may not notice immediately, but national, let alone state, landscape changes all the time: some nations split up into new, smaller ones, others fuse into one nation (iran for example).

    And what about greece? Maybe, following your logic, only crete can be considered a true greece and all other regions are imposters? Wink
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 5:17 pm

    Don't feed the troll please. Move on.

    On Topic, very poor wording from Edi Rama, the Albanian PM.

    "Nothing to do with terrorism". Worse outside Albania people speak about people being paid to attack for nothing. I justcan't understand who can be paid to die in the circumstances we saw? Sometimes I'm ashamed to have these people as "compatriots".


    Last edited by KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 5:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 5:20 pm

    Another article by Sputnik:

    Macedonia Unrest: West Giving Balkanian Country a Lesson of 'Democracy'

    Sputnik wrote:After Russia's Stroitransgaz announced it will build a gas pipeline across Macedonia, Skopje has come under heavy criticism from Washington, Brussels and numerous US-funded NGOs, which blasted the government for violating "European values."

    Sputnik wrote:It looks like the West is going to give Macedonia a lesson of "democracy," noted American writer and researcher Michael Collins, drawing a parallel between the current situation in the country and dramatic events which took place in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine.

    Sputnik wrote:"The announcement of Russian pipeline deal on March 12 put the small nation in the cross hairs of the Obama administration and Congress. Allowing Russia a backdoor to sell Europe natural gas challenged the economic and political war against Russia. The US and its puppet governments in London, Paris, and Berlin give lip service to free markets. But, when it comes to Russia, political goals trump commerce," the researcher underscored.

    More >>
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    Regular

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    Recent events in Macedonia

    Post  Regular on Wed May 20, 2015 5:29 pm

    So what do You think about protests in Macedonia?
    My opinion is that it's new Maidan in the brewing. 8 cops were recently killed by protesters. Most of the protesters seem to be albanian.
    Again, minority supported by US trying to overthrow majority

    Maybe it's time to announce curfew and wipe those remaining fucking dogs with machineguns?
    Just like this, clear one street after another.


    Last edited by Regular on Wed May 20, 2015 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Regular on Wed May 20, 2015 5:37 pm

    Macedonia is artificial as it can get. Now protests show what it actually is. In my understanding speaking with Macedonians it is because albanians and other muslim were let to move in. Now ungrateful fucks, a minority supported by US, trying to pull same scenario as in Ukraine.
    IMO, rest of Macedonia should act now, they already lost 8 cops to those scum, it's time for curfew. People should not stand by too, peaceful protests won't help. They should herd those "democartic" protesters out of the streets, send them back to Albania. Either You stand up or perish.
    This shit makes me so fucking angry.
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 5:54 pm

    As I've said time and again, I am an Orthodox Christian, and I don't believe in ethnic cleansing or that it will sort anything out.
    Besides, the Albanian population in question didn't move here from Albania - they've moved here from Kosovo, and is very different to the Albanian population in Albania.
    Most of these are very conservative/radical Muslims, wheres in Albania the population is of mixed faith.
    The trouble here is only the US, as I believe (given the chance) we can sort these people out (the terrorists and radical Islamists).
    When we had a brief war in 2001, we were threatened to be attacked by America (as one of the Generals who's now retired claimed in his memoirs). The US soldiers from Kosovo were also recorded air-dropping weapons in Macedonia.
    Than there was the OSCE (among other NGOs) that gave logistical support to the "Rebels" (as they were called then) and intelligence. Those NGOs you just can't touch for obvious reasons (getting bombed by the US again).
    So as you can see - the US prefers to fight fair (sarcasm) where one of the fighters has his hands tied behind his back, and has one leg amputated...
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 6:00 pm

    Regular wrote:Macedonia is artificial as it can get. Now protests show what it actually is. In my understanding speaking with Macedonians it is because albanians and other muslim were let to move in. Now ungrateful fucks, a minority supported by US, trying to pull same scenario as in Ukraine.
    IMO, rest of Macedonia should act now, they already lost 8 cops to those scum, it's time for curfew. People should not stand by too, peaceful protests won't help. They should herd those "democartic" protesters out of the streets, send them back to Albania. Either You stand up or perish.
    This shit makes me so fucking angry.

    Wat? Who was allowed to move in? Do you know why the Balkans are the way they are? Because FFS when "we moved in" (actually is the other way around) nobody had a problem, we were mostly christian assholes, with regular schizm. Bad Catholics/Good Orthos. Then the fukkin Turks with their cohort of Arabs, Kurds, Iranians, Mongols, Tatars came to play. Like usual everybody tried their own hand. Albanians were relatively successful in keeping every one "christian" for about 3 to 4 centuries. Expecting "help" from Divine Yurop. Help that never came. FFS those assoles didn't even lift a finger to help Vienna in the 17th century, let alone a couple of "Greeks" back in the day.

    This isn't about Albanians. It's about useful idiots and their masters. In this indeed Albanians are being upped. It's also funny HOW Albanains are NOT looked as dangerous when they clearly demonstrate to be from Albania (almost normal country) while scumbags from Thugovo stand out as genuine assholes.

    What curfew? Why? The area where those terro-idiots got caught, was never a hotbed for "Independentism". This is how they were fvcked. If you want to have real chaos, you stirr up shit near Tetovo, Debar/Dibra not in the middle of Macedonia PROPER. This was something out of a mafia setup, with guys thinking they'd be made men, and getting fvcked up instead.

    From what I saw, there were some pretty weird weapons, including a fvcking service rifle from Switzerland. Rare .50cal from US of A. Most of the rifles were M70AB's, which can be easily traced with "some help". But the swiss official rifle would be even easier.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 6:06 pm

    Regular wrote:So what do You think about protests in Macedonia?
    My opinion is that it's new Maidan in the brewing. 8 cops were recently killed by protesters. Most of the protesters seem to be albanian.
    Again, minority supported by US trying to overthrow majority

    Maybe it's time to announce curfew and wipe those remaining fucking dogs with machineguns?
    Just like this, clear one street after another.

    Don't you see that the Macedonian Police is evacuating "Albanians" without fear of 5th columnists? This is a game, not real. "Albanians" in Macedonia, have other issues. Like the fact their own fvcking faith system is leaving scores of these literally illiterate. I don't know how the folks down there can deal with so much ignorance, because in Albania we simply let them move to Kosovo proper, when they came in 2001.
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    macedonian

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  macedonian on Wed May 20, 2015 6:09 pm

    Regular wrote:So what do You think about protests in Macedonia?
    My opinion is that it's new Maidan in the brewing. 8 cops were recently killed by protesters. Most of the protesters seem to be albanian.
    Again, minority supported by US trying to overthrow majority

    Maybe it's time to announce curfew and wipe those remaining fucking dogs with machineguns?
    Just like this, clear one street after another.

    The problem with the color revolution option for the US is that, as much as people hate the Government (myself included), people HATE the opposition even more.
    These are people that don't have any ideology whatsoever, they do as told by Brusshington and take pride in that! They are your "True European" sort....with the "values" and everything.
    Once they had a PM in power, who when asked about his stance on the Kosovo issue said: "Whatever the position of Brussels and Washington, we'll follow it"!!!
    You can see why people hate them here, they don't even pretend to rule themselves, they merely preside over the plebs (us) getting directives from Brusshington.

    So unless something like the Maidan snipers happens, I don't see how the US can get the public to support them (even then it's highly dubious that it will).
    Besides, keep in mind that the idiots in government are now very cautious...they know that Washington is out to get them, and will not sit with their hands down.
    They'll try to win this, or at least weasel-out of it somehow (though after the speeches I've mentioned, I don't see how they could).

    As I said - it's now one move at a time on the board...and no one knows what happens next, or who wins the game at the end.
    Interesting times ahead.

    ___________
    Edit:

    Let me clear a thing or two:
    The Policemen were NOT killed by protesters, they were killed by terrorist that (mostly) came from Kosovo.
    Funny, it COINCIDED with the opposition protests, though the opposition and the Americans claim that the two aren't linked in any way.
    So these are two different things (protesters and terrorists)...but to me (and to many others) looks like it's all a part of the same scenario.
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    Airbornewolf

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

    Post  Airbornewolf on Wed May 20, 2015 9:28 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    Regular wrote:So what do You think about protests in Macedonia?
    My opinion is that it's new Maidan in the brewing. 8 cops were recently killed by protesters. Most of the protesters seem to be albanian.
    Again, minority supported by US trying to overthrow majority

    Maybe it's time to announce curfew and wipe those remaining fucking dogs with machineguns?
    Just like this, clear one street after another.

    The problem with the color revolution option for the US is that, as much as people hate the Government (myself included), people HATE the opposition even more.
    These are people that don't have any ideology whatsoever, they do as told by Brusshington and take pride in that! They are your "True European" sort....with the "values" and everything.
    Once they had a PM in power, who when asked about his stance on the Kosovo issue said: "Whatever the position of Brussels and Washington, we'll follow it"!!!
    You can see why people hate them here, they don't even pretend to rule themselves, they merely preside over the plebs (us) getting directives from Brusshington.

    So unless something like the Maidan snipers happens, I don't see how the US can get the public to support them (even then it's highly dubious that it will).
    Besides, keep in mind that the idiots in government are now very cautious...they know that Washington is out to get them, and will not sit with their hands down.
    They'll try to win this, or at least weasel-out of it somehow (though after the speeches I've mentioned, I don't see how they could).

    As I said - it's now one move at a time on the board...and no one knows what happens next, or who wins the game at the end.
    Interesting times ahead.

    ___________
    Edit:

    Let me clear a thing or two:
    The Policemen were NOT killed by protesters, they were killed by terrorist that (mostly) came from Kosovo.
    Funny, it COINCIDED with the opposition protests, though the opposition and the Americans claim that the two aren't linked in any way.
    So these are two different things (protesters and terrorists)...but to me (and to many others) looks like it's all a part of the same scenario.

    i am just an guy out of the Netherlands chipping in here of course, but its an policy the West/USA has followed ever since the cold war. support an minority faction with money, weapons and political power and try to force regime change. Ukraine is failing as an conflict zone for the U.S against Russia so they need a new one to "scare" the europeans for good ol' uncle sam to protect them and keep the other eastern europeans in line.

    i agree with Macedonians assessments and points, the incidents are too convenient to be separate events. create social unrest, and paint the EU and the U.S as some sort of all powerfull gaurdian angel to swear allegiance to and everything will be allright. while in reality its handing over your country and people over at the mercy of the global demon of death.

    maybe the last sentence is a bit dramatized, but name ONE country that got better after NATO intervention?. right, that is exactly ZERO.

    this whole chain of events in Macedonia is just so wrong on so many levels. terrorist attack that left 8 guys doing their jobs dead, following that Western politicians joining this sudden "protest" coming out of nowhere about "Western value's". trying to instigate social unrest among the population. Ukraine 2.0, all thats missing is Nuland giving out cookies. ...and meanwhile here in Europe all media is silent about events in Macedonia. untill things get unfavourable for the current Macedonian government and its all "their" fault.

    i do not know anything about Macedonian ethnicity (hope i spelled that right, the macedonian population) or the general feeling of them toward the government. sincerely i just hope every one involved there is aware of the artificial nature of events happening and to do everything to prevent an Ukraine 2.0. the current government needs to keep control of its security apparatus and support it to the very end. and the guys on the ground doing the anti-terror work and public order tasks need to know they got the full support of the people and the government. the alternative is the government and security system collapses and death and destruction follows by U.S/NATO supported militia's and puppet-governments.

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    Re: FYROM inter-ethnic violence

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