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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

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    flamming_python
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:08 pm

    TR1 wrote:It is definitely a stupidly priced suit.
    Just a way to siphon some money off for some people I suspect.

    I remember my eyes bulged out of my head when I read the figures circa 2011/2012 or so about how much was meant to be spent on each new conscript for the Yudashkin uniform and issued personal assortment (cup, cutlery, towels, etc...). It was approaching something like 100,000 rub if my memory doesn't fail me.

    Approaching 100,000 rub for that assortment of cheap low-quality crap? They should have just had it produced all in China; 1/10th the price and the quality might have been a little better too.

    I hope the tank suit is a little better. The fact that they are selling it commercially as well as through opaque military contracts is an encouraging sign; perhaps its quality could go half-way to matching its price. Maybe.
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    Hypersonic ICBM - Unique Russian Concept : Possible ?

    Post  Deep Throat on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:46 am

    In early 1997 engineers from the Raduga Design Bureau in Dubna came out with a unique concept for ICBMs.

    Placing several supersonic or hypersonic cruise missiles instead of a nuclear warhead in a heavy ballistic missile. The designers thought that with this weapon, the Soviet Union would have been able to engage U.S. aircraft carrier fleets anywhere in the world directly from Siberia. A ballistic missile would carry the warhead into the targeted area, and there the cruise missiles themselves would detect and strike the target.
    The idea was abandoned because of inadequacy of funds.

    QUESTION : Is such a concept possible today ? If YES, what are the pros and cons ?
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:29 pm

    Deep Throat wrote:QUESTION : Is such a concept possible today ? If YES, what are the pros and cons ?
    Guidance of these individual missiles , I suspect will emerge as a major hurdle .
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:04 am

    Actually I have suggested such an idea myself... though my design used SLBMs.

    The enormous speed of the SLBM and then the hypersonic missiles means the flight time to target is actually fairly short... a vulnerability of cruise missile carriers is that the launch platform could be engaged before missile release in addition to the fact that the missile carrier would need to be something like a Tu-160 or Tu-95 which is not easy to hide.

    the current subsonic missiles with ranges of 5,000km mean the delivery vehicle can operate outside most air defence systems but the long flight time makes targeting moving targets problematic.

    Satellite detection and tracking of targets however mean a SSBN in the Black Sea could receive target data about an attempted hijacking off the African coast with the mothership launching small attack boats towards a Russian vessel in the region... launch an SLBM and five minutes later a single hypersonic AShM is descending at mach 7 on the motherboat, while helicopters from a nearby Mistral class carrier send Ka-52Ks to deal with the individual attack boats...

    Heck... give them supercavitating noses and let them go after submarines... Twisted Evil 


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:06 am

    The main stumbling block will be the same as with Global Strike... how does everyone distinguish between a hypersonic AShM and a real SLBM... and basically they can't till it goes splash or boom, or BOOM.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    BlackArrow
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  BlackArrow on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:02 pm

    Deep Throat wrote:
    QUESTION : Is such a concept possible today ? If YES, what are the pros and cons ?
    The price is a major con naturally - as well as actually making the technology work. How are you going to guide the thing all the way from Siberia to a USN carrier target in the South Atlantic?

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Arrow on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:15 am

    What is it 3M22 missile ?
    Missile for S-500 loolks like 9M82 missile.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:59 am

    Brahmos-2.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Arrow on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:38 pm


    Brahmos-2. wrote:

    Or Zirconia ? U.S. hypersonic missile program is more advanced than the Russian?

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Arrow on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:49 pm

    We will see. X-51 has in test ? Where the Russian tests hypersonic missile ?
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    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:45 pm

    My friend, even if we could answer this questions, we would not tell them publicly  Cool 
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:01 pm

    Arrow wrote:


    Or Zirconia ? U.S. hypersonic missile program is more advanced than the Russian?

    ...I don't think so:




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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:55 am

    the us would be probably more advanced in terms of ambition- and funding ofc. Expect them to have prompt global strike a few years after S-500 is widespread tho it would be prohibitively expensive like stealth has been at first. Oth Yasens with scramjet missiles will enter soon and while not as prompt as pgs, smarter planning and positioning would allow them to functon like so.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:03 am

    When Zirconium is ready the Russian Navy will have a range of new and upgraded ships fitted with the UKSK launcher to fire it.

    From corvette to carrier and submarine... most will have the capacity to carry these hypersonic missiles...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Arrow on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:02 am

    When Zircona will be start testing ?
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:04 am

    Arrow wrote:When Zircona will be start testing ?

    I would suspect they will have tested a few components already and also had some combined tests too... in the early 1990s they tested scramjet engines on the nose of SA-5 Gammon missiles where the small scramjet engines were fitted to the nose of the missiles that were fired conventionally up to high altitude and high speed and then the scramjet is started.

    The test I read about had the scramjet operating for just over one minute with the test missile accelerating from mach 5 to mach 7 and travelling 180km.

    the photos of the launch vehicle are amusing as the tiny scramjet on the nose really looks too small to drag that huge missile from Mach 5 to Mach 7.

    Here is a photo:



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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Zircon missile

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:00 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Arrow wrote:When Zircona will be start testing ?

    I would suspect they will have tested a few components already and also had some combined tests too... in the early 1990s they tested scramjet engines on the nose of SA-5 Gammon missiles where the small scramjet engines were fitted to the nose of the missiles that were fired conventionally up to high altitude and high speed and then the scramjet is started.

    The test I read about had the scramjet operating for just over one minute with the test missile accelerating from mach 5 to mach 7 and travelling 180km.

    the photos of the launch vehicle are amusing as the tiny scramjet on the nose really looks too small to drag that huge missile from Mach 5 to Mach 7.

    Here is a photo:


    Garry,

    Did you read it on the http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html. Of course, “his” description is incorrect on many fronts.

    The vehicle shown was a test vehicle (I think called GLA). As such, the scamjet wasn’t even provided with a nozzle to produce any meaningful thrust, not that it couldn’t be provided with one; it just wasn’t needed for this test. Due to this fact, the delta V provided by the fully functioning scramjet was around zero.

    At the same time I should mention that the missiles used by the S-200 reach Mach 10, and as I remember, during these tests, part of the trajectory was flown at Mach 9.

    AW&ST had an article about these tests about 20 years ago.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:07 pm

    So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:29 pm

    sepheronx wrote:So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?

    The program stopped because of the INF treaty, yet another reason to leave the treaty.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Firebird on Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:48 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:So do you guys think that once US places bases in Ukraine, that Russia will restart Kh-90 Program?

    The program stopped because of the INF treaty, yet another reason to leave the treaty.

    Surely Yank bases in Hohol-land would be a red line?
    Just as Russian nukes in Cuba were.

    Esp given that 50% of the Ukraine HATES Uncle Sham.
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    A few words about the new heavy rocket

    Post  Viktor on Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:36 pm

    This mighty system once done will be placed under ADF jurisdiction so here are some great news Very Happy

    Excellent article in general.

    A few words about the new heavy rocket

    but here are the highlights Very Happy

    . However, the principal novelty is not to put on a high-explosive rocket or fragmentation of - too expensive and inefficient event, especially with regard to heavy missile system. As a result of the joint work of the military and professionals DIC was invited to a landmark decision. The novelty lies in the high combat effectiveness due to the merger of three technologies: classical missile, a hypersonic gliding and fundamentally new warhead.

    All these technologies exist and tested

    This will provide greater flexibility in the application of combat various conditions and the development of military conflict. rocket will be equipped with several hypersonic maneuverable units of the third generation, on which work is carried out in parallel with the now already summer products of the second generation now passing tests for other RK. The first was the "Albatross". Second-generation products that pass the test now, though, and fly, but still have a number of important childhood diseases of the new technology.

    And here is a picture that describes new Russian wonder-weapon russia



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    [Prompt Global Strikes] Russian Fear of U.S. Hypersonic Missiles Threatens New Arms Race

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:41 am

    At first, before posting I look for PGS, or Prompt Global Strikes, and I did not find such topic here. To admins and and moderators, instead of having redunding topics relating the same things, if it exists another topic about PGS, thx to move this subject in the appropriate area -if the subjet is move, please pm me and tell me where you move it-.

    My question is:
    What are the responses of russians ? SS-9 ?


    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-fear-of-u-s-hypersonic-missiles-threatens-new-arms-race/515863.html



    Russian Fear of U.S. Hypersonic Missiles Threatens New Arms Race

    By Matthew Bodner
    Feb. 12 2015 20:13
    Last edited 20:13

    Yevgeny Stetsko / VedomostiAnother piece of the Russian hypersonic puzzle may have been unveiled last week, when President Vladimir Putin signed an order uniting Russia's largest defense contractor, the Almaz-Antey air-defense concern, with several smaller military space firms.

    While conflict between the United States and Russia over Ukraine has raised talk of a new Cold War, another feature of that era has also begun to re-emerge — the missile race.

    A new arms rivalry between Russia and the United States is heating up as the two major military powers rush to develop a new class of hypersonic, non-nuclear missiles that can strike any target on the globe within one hour of launch with devastating accuracy.

    The United States is leading the chase for the new weapons, which Russia firmly believes poses a significant threat to its own nuclear missile forces.

    "Russia considers this trend as a path to obtaining [non-nuclear] means of depriving Russia of its deterrent capability," Dr. Eugene Miasnikov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Arms Control, Energy and Environmental Studies told The Moscow Times.

    Russia's sensitivity to threats to its nuclear deterrence could lead it to mistake a hypersonic missile launch as the opening moves of a larger attack, some analysts say, arguing that the weapons are so destabilizing that their mere development could spark a nuclear war between major powers.
    Hypersonic Weapons 101

    Hypersonic missiles are being developed in the United States as part of the Conventional Prompt Global Strike program, a loosely defined Department of Defense initiative to develop the capability to accurately hit targets with non-nuclear intercontinental missiles in record time.

    The idea has its roots in U.S. post-9/11 counter-terrorism strategy, when the United States decided it needed the capability to hit targets as soon as they had been located.

    To date, a reported $1 billion has been spent on the Conventional Prompt Global Strike program. A few billion dollars more would likely be needed to attain true hypersonic capability, according to James Acton, a senior associate in the Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    The most prominent example of hypersonic weapons currently in development are so-called "boost-glide" weapons.

    These are missiles that, instead of arcing into space before coming down on their target, are fired at a shallow trajectory that barely exits the atmosphere. After reaching a hypersonic speed, the missile's warhead is released and glides the rest of the way to its objective.

    As the weapon begins to glide, its relatively shallow angle of approach makes it extremely difficult to track and defend against — a detail Russia's leadership finds troubling.
    Lockheed Martin

    A computer rendering of a U.S. hypersonic test vehicle. The missile's casing is falling away to allow the black warhead to detach and plunge back into the earth's atmosphere.

    Russian Answer

    While hypersonic weapons are still in the development phase, they have already raised the prospect that Russia might pull out of Cold War nuclear arms treaties with the United States.

    President Vladimir Putin in 2013 warned that the hypersonic missile development "could negate all previous agreements on the limitation and reduction of strategic nuclear weapons, thereby disrupting the strategic balance of power."

    Nuclear arms control agreements between Russia and the United States have only gotten shakier since then.

    In July of last year, amid the tensions of the Ukraine crisis, Washington suggested Moscow had violated the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF), which bans an entire class of nuclear missiles.

    In October, Putin told Serbian newspaper Politika that he considered Western sanctions over Ukraine an attempt to "blackmail Russia" and that the West should "remember the risks that a spat between major nuclear powers incurs for strategic stability," news agency Reuters reported.

    Little information is available on the state of Russia's domestic hypersonic program, but the head of Russia's Tactical Missiles Corporation, Boris Obnosov, said last year the company is working with dozens of firms to implement a development program for a hypersonic missile. The Tactical Missiles Cooperation produces many of Russia's guided missile systems.

    Another piece of the Russian hypersonic puzzle may have been unveiled last week, when President Vladimir Putin signed an order uniting Russia's largest defense contractor, the Almaz-Antey air-defense concern, with several smaller military space firms.

    Though not directly related to the development of hypersonic missiles, the move might signal a greater focus on developing defense against the weapons.

    Almaz-Antey did not respond to a request for comment.
    Moscow's Fears

    The United States seems so far to have failed to allay Moscow's fears that the missiles are being developed to target Russia rather than terrorist hideouts, said Carnegie's Acton.

    Moscow has already worked hypersonic missiles into its long-standing grievances against the United States — including NATO expansion and the placement of missile defense systems in Europe.

    "My biggest concern is that Russia will mistake a U.S. [hypersonic] attack against a neighboring state as an attack against Russia," said Acton.

    Because the weapons do not follow ballistic trajectories, but glide and maneuver their way to the target, it is possible that Moscow would become confused about the missile's objective and believe Russia was the intended target. This would lead to a serious escalation of international tensions, and possibly provoke a counterattack.

    But now is a bad time for dialogue. In recent weeks prominent U.S. politicians have advocated arming Kiev against Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, raising the specter of a proxy war between the two former Cold War enemies.

    Miasnikov said that so long as both sides remain at odds, any developments in the U.S. hypersonic program will be construed in Moscow as a threat.

    In any case, the weapons will be inexorably linked to U.S.-Russia bilateral relations because the way Russia perceives them to threaten its nuclear forces.

    The Pentagon should work to better understand what it needs the weapons in question for, and present Russia with concrete proposals to mitigate the risk in deploying them, according to Acton.

    For Moscow's part, "[it] should respond to such an offer constructively," he said.

    Contact the author at m.bodner@imedia.ru
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:11 pm

    Themoscowtimes belongs to US an NGO camoflauged shit propaganda paper.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  nemrod on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:37 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Themoscowtimes belongs to US an NGO camoflauged shit propaganda paper.

    Thx Werewolf. I was not aware, it is a very usefull information.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Kyo on Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:47 pm

    New hypersonic fuel formula created in Russia — Defense Ministry

    The Russian Armed Forces are celebrating Fuel Service Day on Tuesday

    MOSCOW, February 17. /TASS/. Russia has created a fuel formula that will help aircraft exceed a speed of Mach 5, Deputy Defense Minister, Army General Dmitry Bulgakov said on Tuesday.
    The deputy defense minister said Russia is currently developing fuel for hypersonic aircraft.
    "The recipe has been created and the energy accumulated in this fuel will help our aircraft exceed the speed of Mach 5," he said.
    As the Russian Armed Forces are celebrating Fuel Service Day on Tuesday, the deputy defense minister also told reporters about the development of fuel in Russia for a new generation of long-range cruise missiles for the Air Force and the Navy. These developments are the prerogative of the 25th State Research Institute of Chemmotology, the deputy defense minister said.
    Specialists of this institute have used aluminum nano-particles to develop a number of rocket fuel components with a density and energy capacity boosted by almost 20%, which helps increase the payload, he said.
    Besides, the institute continues developing raw materials alternative to oil, he said. Specifically, the institute is testing a sample of synthetic oil and aviation fuel based on natural gas and research is underway to obtain motor fuel from coal, the deputy defense minister said.

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