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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    George1
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    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:52 pm

    Kalashnikov gunmaker developing hypersonic target missile for testing air defense systems dubbed Gvozdika (Carnation)

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1031079
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:37 am

    So it suggests that they are working with high energy propellants and scramjet motors... would be interesting developments for small arms development too.

    Imagine a long range sniper bullet that actually got faster as it got closer to the target...

    Most bullets rapidly slow down after leaving the muzzle... most rifle bullets are subsonic at about 800m or so, which means for a modern 5.56mm round it has slowed down to 1/3rd its speed at the muzzle... imagine a bullet leaving the muzzle at 1.2km/s and travelling at 2km/s after 1km flight travel...
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:16 pm

    George1 wrote:Kalashnikov gunmaker developing hypersonic target missile for testing air defense systems dubbed Gvozdika (Carnation)

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1031079

    The design bureau behind 'Buran', NPO Molniya, is now officially part of the Kalashnikov concern, so this is not too far of a stretch.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:08 am

    I guess there would be overlap in terms of hypersonic aerodynamics for projectiles/missiles.

    Of course during the Soviet period it was quite normal for a design bureau to suddenly move to a different field, just to inject new ideas into different fields.
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    Post  Arrow on Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:39 pm

    The Avangardis to enter service in 2019. Is there any information about Cirkon?The last test was in May 2017 and has been quiet since then.
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:57 pm

    Arrow wrote: Is there any information about Cirkon?The last test was in May 2017 and has been quiet since then.

    Will they export zirkon?
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:48 pm

    Russia starts developing land-based hypersonic missile with intermediate range, says Putin

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1042977
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:49 pm

    George1 wrote:Russia starts developing land-based hypersonic missile with intermediate range, says Putin

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1042977

    "I agree with the Defense Ministry’s proposals to start the work on ‘landing’ Kalibr missiles and developing a new area to create a land-based hypersonic missile with intermediate range," Putin noted.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1042977

    I knew it. As I said would happen.

    Land based hypersonic weapons will just be Khinzal which is actually Iskander but with another booster. Or possibly be Zircon with booster.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:42 am

    The first images of the American promising aeroballistic missile ARRW

      On June 12, 2019, the US Air Force conducted the first aerodynamic test (without reset) of a promising hypersonic AGM-183A ARRW (Air Launched Rapid Response Weapon, also used by the Arrow acronym) created by Lockheed Martin Corporation on a strategic bomber Boeing B-52H. B-52H bomber with a mass-dimensional missile model ARRW, equipped with part of the control system, on an external suspension made a flight from Edwards Air Force Base (California).

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       The mass-dimensional model of the Lockheed Martin AGM-183A ARRW (Air Launched Rapid Response Weapon) promising American hypersonic aeroballistic missile on the external sling of the US Air Force Strategic Assistant Boeing B-52H (US Air Force Number 60-0036) during the first test flight, 12.06.2019 (c) Edwards / US Air Force Base

      The creation of ARRW is under contract worth $ 480 million, issued by the United States Air Force Corporation Lockheed Martin in August 2018. Works must be completed by December 2021.

      Structurally, ARRW, reportedly, is a solid-fuel air-ballistic missile with a warhead in the form of a detachable Tactical Boost Glide (TBG) hypersonic warhead with a rocket engine, which has been created for some time under the auspices of the DARPA agency. The characteristics of the system are unknown, although unofficially its speed to the TBG is attributed to speeds of up to 20M. Presumably, the first aerodynamic tests of the TBG combat unit were conducted in March 2019. According to some sources, the ARRW rocket is planned to be built primarily in the nuclear version.

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    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3678793.html
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:00 am

    Hey, one of the Kinzhal missiles is missing... oh... there it is... a downgraded version is hanging under the wing of an ancient US bomber...
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    Post  Arrow on Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:18 am

    20 M much better than Cirkon and Ch-47 Laughing
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:32 am

    Arrow wrote:20 M much better than Cirkon and Ch-47 Laughing

    attack attack Boom it's all gone!!!

    WOW what a missile!

    This missile can only be launched by b-52.
    This missile if it has a glide vehicle inside cannot be launched against moving targets.
    Obviously the mach 20 is not sourced, just speculation what a glide vehicle can achieve in America (if someday Americans test some glider that works)
    The missile wasn't launched.
    Zirkon can be launched from ships, submarines, and ground launchers.
    What is ch-47? Only get chinnok helicopter.
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    Post  Arrow on Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:07 pm

    This missile is twice as fast as Kindzal. For this he has a scramjet engine. The Russian scramjet Cirkon flight only got 9M.
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 pm

    Arrow wrote:This missile is twice as fast as Kindzal. For this he has a scramjet engine. The Russian scramjet Cirkon flight  only got 9M.

    The source said that it is a solid-fuel ballistic missile. So in other words - same as the Iskander.

    It won't be suitable for use against ships like the Kinzhal though. It's a quasi-ballistic missile with likely some manuevering capability and countermeasures. So useful in other words against stationary ground targets, and as a nuclear weapon.
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:12 pm

    Arrow wrote:This missile is twice as fast as Kindzal. For this he has a scramjet engine. The Russian scramjet Cirkon flight  only got 9M.

    Zirkon is a cruise missile, he CAN hit mobile targets, this mock-up cannot.

    The source George1 posted did not say this travels at mach 20.

    You compare this mock-up alleged speed with Zirkon and Kindzal, I wonder if there is a hypersonic vehicle of the 3 Putin presented that you are purposely forgetting?.




    Obviously this hypersonic missile has nothing to do with Avangard.
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:07 pm

    NATO fanbois are pathetic. The US is Johnny come lately to the hypersonic party, but by some magic it is way ahead.
    Typical delusional masturbation.

    Cute how some contract in the corrupt US MIC can produce a functional hypersonic missile in less than a couple of years.
    American genes must be so superior to those of other humans, that they don't even have to try.

    In the real world, there are serious questions about the specs and viability of this prop.

    Of course, the US could have stolen Russian technology. That would be consistent with physical reality.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:21 pm

    Arrow is excited about a mock up that was never launched. Or proven to work.

    Khinzal on other hand, we know about.

    This missile is a solid fuel, nothing special. Mach 20 is assumption with no evidence. But while he requires evidence on Russia's side, he doesn't request the same on the American side.

    This will though force Russia to work on newer air defense missiles to be able to counter such systems. I doubt this missile of Americans claim have can even maneuver while Khinzal can. Zircon isn't even the same thing as its a cruise missile thus flies low.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:35 pm

    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12237315@egNews

    Russian Armed Forces to receive completely new hypersonic and laser energy weapons

    The Russian Armed Forces are about to get a whole new weapon based on laser energy and hypersonic, the first of its samples have already been introduced into trial combat duty. This was announced by General of the Army Sergei Shoigu as he opened the scientific conference attended by the leadership of the Russian Armed Forces.

    "In the near future, the Russian Armed Forces will receive a completely new, unparalleled weapon based on hypersonic and laser energy technologies. Its first samples have already been put on trial combat duty," the head of the Russian military department said.

    The President of the Russian Federation last year spoke about the development of state-of-the-art weapons in Russia in his address to the Federal Assembly. This year, he continued the topic and said that the Peresvet laser systems operated in the troops would take on duty this December, the nuclear submarine carrier for the Poseidon will be launched this spring; serial production of the Avangard systems have already been launched".

    The head of state also reported on the successful test of the Sarmat intercontinental missile and an unlimited range cruise missile with the Burevestnik nuclear propulsion system.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:21 pm

    To be fair.... god I hate that phrase...we have yet to see jack shit of Zircon.

    That american missile has probably been flown in some form to be at the stage that it's. Numbers however.... we know advertisement for U.S weapons can be very wild, even by normal standards. Kinda the norm for states to prop up their weaponry like corps do to their products but the U.S does take the cake.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:27 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:To be fair.... god I hate that phrase...we have yet to see jack shit of Zircon.

    That american missile has probably been flown in some form to be at the stage that it's. Numbers however.... we know advertisement for U.S weapons can be very wild, even by normal standards. Kinda the norm for states to prop up their weaponry like corps do to their products but the U.S does take the cake.

    The secrecy surrounding Zircon is interesting. I am assuming Kinzhal got publicity cause it's an existing missile modified a bit and fitted on an aircraft. Zircon is something new entirely. All we got was Intel on both sides it flew, but that's it.

    I hate how Russia hides development. I know we aren't the customers and secrecy is important but it would be nice to see.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:33 pm

    I might understand a bit considering that from the descriptions it will become the base for a multitude of missiles to be used all across the board. Miniaturized for the Su-57 and other fighter aircraft, for VLS on ships, land-based tel variants etc. It's a big one, up there with the glide boost vehicle of the sarmat.
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:27 pm

    Of course they don't show Zirkon...like they don't show Avangard, 40N6, Nudol missile...etc

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:16 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:To be fair.... god I hate that phrase...we have yet to see jack shit of Zircon.

    That american missile has probably been flown in some form to be at the stage that it's. Numbers however.... we know advertisement for U.S weapons can be very wild, even by normal standards. Kinda the norm for states to prop up their weaponry like corps do to their products but the U.S does take the cake.

    The secrecy surrounding Zircon is interesting. I am assuming Kinzhal got publicity cause it's an existing missile modified a bit and fitted on an aircraft. Zircon is something new entirely. All we got was Intel on both sides it flew, but that's it.

    I hate how Russia hides development. I know we aren't the customers and secrecy is important but it would be nice to see.

    Don't be irrational.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:51 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:To be fair.... god I hate that phrase...we have yet to see jack shit of Zircon.

    That american missile has probably been flown in some form to be at the stage that it's. Numbers however.... we know advertisement for U.S weapons can be very wild, even by normal standards. Kinda the norm for states to prop up their weaponry like corps do to their products but the U.S does take the cake.

    The secrecy surrounding Zircon is interesting. I am assuming Kinzhal got publicity cause it's an existing missile modified a bit and fitted on an aircraft. Zircon is something new entirely. All we got was Intel on both sides it flew, but that's it.

    I hate how Russia hides development. I know we aren't the customers and secrecy is important but it would be nice to see.

    Don't be irrational.

    You have no idea what irrational is if you think that is.  Take a look at this forums as a whole.

    But they have no problem showing most systems. Zircon on the other hand they have been very hush hush. They even showed Poseidon after all.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:56 am

    Kinzhal is in operational service AFAIK, while this is an untested new system...

    Zircon has not been revealed for pretty obvious reasons... it is a hypersonic scramjet powered missile... it relies on a fairly unique shape to get that sort of performance and the US equivalent is a failure so far, which means they haven't worked out a good working shape... why reveal Zircon and show them what shape to use?

    Let them work it out for themselves...

    And Mach 20... prove it...

    And I would suggest the news about laser systems are for interception of hypersonic threats... it would be their most useful feature... the first gen might not be so great, but further upgrades over time and they will get there...

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