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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

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    Austin
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    Post  Austin on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:52 am

    Some days back we were discussing on X-51 Hypersonic systems and how it helps , here is a nice interview of a professional on the subject , makes you realise the tremendous importance of Hypersonic Weapons.

    Interview with Former Commander of the Strategic Missile Forces said about the dangers of hypersonic vehicles
    http://vpk.name/news/74052_otstavaniya_rossii_net.html

    How such missiles being equipped with nuclear warheads, can be more dangerous than intercontinental ballistic missiles?

    VE: To say that the more dangerous and difficult. Hypersonic effect is that the missile flies at altitudes of 80-100 km and more. It is difficult to detect the object of the system of aerospace defense. That's the benefit of this project. Such a missile is difficult to detect, respectively, it is more reliably hit the object than intercontinental ballistic missile whose trajectory is calculated, and to intercept warheads can use the missile defense system.


    VIEW: There is at least in the project means to deal with such missiles?

    VE: Not yet. These developments are reflected in the existing missile threats, and with the advent of the need to create new systems. Maybe the industry has already given the job to work in this direction, but I mean they have not heard.

    VIEW: air and missile defense systems, the armament of advanced armies in the world, are able at least to some extent counteract these missiles?

    VE: They fight with such objects is not able to. Neither the Americans nor us. Therefore, it is one of the priority development: it devalues ​​the existing missile defense system. But this is temporary. Fighting shield and sword: if someone is ahead, then later other to catch up.


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:11 pm

    Austin wrote:Some days back we were discussing on X-51 Hypersonic systems and how it helps , here is a nice interview of a professional on the subject , makes you realise the tremendous importance of Hypersonic Weapons.

    Interview with Former Commander of the Strategic Missile Forces said about the dangers of hypersonic vehicles
    http://vpk.name/news/74052_otstavaniya_rossii_net.html

    How such missiles being equipped with nuclear warheads, can be more dangerous than intercontinental ballistic missiles?

    VE: To say that the more dangerous and difficult. Hypersonic effect is that the missile flies at altitudes of 80-100 km and more. It is difficult to detect the object of the system of aerospace defense. That's the benefit of this project. Such a missile is difficult to detect, respectively, it is more reliably hit the object than intercontinental ballistic missile whose trajectory is calculated, and to intercept warheads can use the missile defense system.


    VIEW: There is at least in the project means to deal with such missiles?

    VE: Not yet. These developments are reflected in the existing missile threats, and with the advent of the need to create new systems. Maybe the industry has already given the job to work in this direction, but I mean they have not heard.

    VIEW: air and missile defense systems, the armament of advanced armies in the world, are able at least to some extent counteract these missiles?

    VE: They fight with such objects is not able to. Neither the Americans nor us. Therefore, it is one of the priority development: it devalues ​​the existing missile defense system. But this is temporary. Fighting shield and sword: if someone is ahead, then later other to catch up.




    Right to the point !

    Someone can only hope that a bit of knowledgeable wisdom will finally gain space also among political authorities tasked to shape future military structure's developments .

    My vote to you Austin.

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    X-51 Hypersonic systems

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:38 pm

    Mindstorm , It says it the new Hypersonic Missile can fly at 80-100 Km or higher but do scramjet engine can burn at that altitude but there is really no oxygen to burn at those altitude unless they drop lower like 30 km ?
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    Russian missiles 'Super-Holding' to Build Hypersonic Missile

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:26 pm

    Russian 'Super-Holding' to Build Hypersonic Missile -Rogozin

    Russia will set up an aerospace "super-holding" company consisting of missile makers NPO Mashinostroyenie and Tactical Missiles Corporation to develop hypersonic weapon technology, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Wednesday.

    "Initially, we are talking about a big 'super-holding' based on Tactical Missiles Corporation and NPO Mashinostroyenie," said Rogozin, who oversees Russia's military-industrial complex.

    Discussions on the creation of such a super-holding have been underway at least six months, Rogozin said.

    "We have found an acceptable solution on how to form this super-holding," he said. "The main idea for this holding is hypersonic technology."

    Development of hypersonic weapons - meaning those capable of flying at several times the speed of sound, generally with scramjet engines - has been a pet theme of Rogozin.

    In May, during a visit to Tactical Missiles Corporation's NPO Raduga missile design bureau, Rogozin called on Russia's defense industry to develop hypersonic air-breathing weapons as a future strike system.

    He picked out American development work in the X-51, Falcon, HiFire and HyFly programs as examples of what he described as the perspective threat posed by U.S. hypersonic development work.

    "The undertaking of this work allows us to lay the basis for the creation of a national competitor in hypersonic weapons," he said.

    He has since frequently repeated his call for hypersonic weapons to be developed as a replacement for the Russian Air Force's existing long-range bomber fleet.

    "I think we need to go down the route of hypersonic technology and we are moving in that direction and are not falling behind the Americans," he said on Rossiya 24 TV in August. "We will use this technology when developing a new bomber."

    "The question is whether we will copy the Americans' forty-year experience and create a [Northrop] B-2 analog...or will we go down a new, ultramodern technology route, looking to the horizon, and create a machine able to penetrate air defenses and carry out a strike on any aggressor," he added.

    Aerospace analysts contacted by RIA Novosti say hypersonic technology is more likely to be relevant to an air-launched weapon itself, rather than a manned aircraft.

    Tactical Missiles Corporation, based in Korolyov, Moscow Region, was formed in 2002 by amalgamating a number of defense design and production enterprises, of which the main ones were Korolyov-based Zvezda-Strela (tactical air-to-surface missiles), Moscow-based Vympel (tactical air-to-air missiles), NPO Raduga (cruise missile design), and Region (tactical air-launched weapons).

    NPO Mashinostroyenie, based at Reutov just west of Moscow, has designed and produced most of the Russian Navy's submarine-launched cruise missiles as well as satellites and other space systems, and has previously conducted extensive research into hypersonic weapons technology, including making a prototype hypersonic air-launched missile called GELA.

    NPO Mashinostroyenie is also the Russian partner in the BrahMos joint venture with India to develop the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, based on the Russian 3M55 Oniks. BrahMos has said it is developing a hypersonic successor system to its existing supersonic missiles in partnership with India.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120919/176062184.html
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Viktor on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:52 pm

    Excellent idea. I guess Rogozin got what he wanted.

    Given vast Russian experience in development and building of such engines it would be of enormous shame

    to let those documents and project rot in some god forsaken offices. Now it will be put to good use and all in one place.

    Also there has being some speculation about privatizing some part of Russia MIC complex. New money could give further give

    it much needed boost while state will always retain dominant influence in companies.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:10 am

    Interesting that is an aerospace super holding... hypersonic weapons and craft for air and space use...

    With a scramjet engine it is quite conceivable that it could be launched as a large subsonic weapon with enormous but expendable external fuel tanks, so for the early part of its flight it could fly subsonic with a very simple scramjet providing propulsion for the majority of the way to the target, till the external fuel is burned up... perhaps 10,000km or more on a low thrust setting launched from a relatively high altitude bomber it could cruise enormous ranges, and then the external fuel tanks fall away leaving a slim high speed aerodynamic shape and the scramjet is moved to full throttle perhaps with the assistance of a small solid rocket booster to help it climb and accelerate faster to high altitude and hypersonic speed to penetrate the enemies air defences and rapidly reach the target.

    Or alternatively you could develop a hypersonic all the way missile with a solid rocket booster and scramjet combination already used (rocket/ramjet) in Onyx.

    The problems with engine thrust and fuselage heating encountered making hypersonic weapons will be invaluable for making hypersonic Bombers later on... new engine designs and new heat resistant materials etc.



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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Firebird on Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:27 pm

    I've been wondering about the physics of hypersonic missiles/ planes.

    Obviously one problem is propulsion or indeed multiple propulsion systems for different stages of flight.

    The next problem, which ofcourse will occur in EM railguns too, is the friction and heat caused by it passing thro the air at high speed.

    So, I wonder, how could the heat on a missile tip be conducted thro a missile and then transferred to the propulsion and cooling units?
    Currently, I think insulators are used ie something that will stop the heat spreading into the missile. But surely that is hindering the missile AND a waste of energy?

    As an analogy, with superconductors, very low ( or actually zero) electrical resistance can be found.The problem is, low temperatures need to be achieved for the superconductor to work.

    As another analogy, rockets use technology to draw heat away from various components, otherwise the rocket would melt itself.

    So getting back to my point,I wonder how could the missile draw friction heat in from the tip to enhance performance( and indeed keep the missile intact)?

    Maybe decades into the future,a technology can be developed to absorb laser energy and redirect it towards an attacker?

    BTW this was an interesting article on the problems of hypersonics.
    Skin-peeling speed doomed hypersonic glider, U.S. says
    By Larry Shaughnessy
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:57 am

    Obviously one problem is propulsion or indeed multiple propulsion systems for different stages of flight.

    The SR-71 showed what could be done in that regard... it uses two large turbojet engines, but in a special arrangement that allows the air to bypass the turbojet engines and just pass through empty tubes to the rear where the after burner is.

    An empty tube with an afterburner on the end is called a ramjet, where air is sucked in and compressed and then fuel is added and ignited generating thrust.

    So you simply use the turbojet engine to get the aircraft into the air and put it in full after burner and climb. As you get faster and faster you start feeding air around the turbojet till eventually all the air is going around the turbojet and you can shut the turbojets down and just run on ramjets.

    At very high speeds turbojets have problems because the rotational speeds of the blades in the engines gets so high the blades break and the engines overheat.

    So, I wonder, how could the heat on a missile tip be conducted thro a missile and then transferred to the propulsion and cooling units?
    Currently, I think insulators are used ie something that will stop the heat spreading into the missile. But surely that is hindering the missile AND a waste of energy?

    There are a few ideas... one is to use materials that remain strong when heated to high temperatures like Titanium, or ceramic materials. Another option is ablative materials like those used on the heat tiles of the Space Shuttle. Yet another option is a porous skin on the leading edge where friction with the air heats the surface, where you can pump fuel through to keep it cool. Rocket nozzles for very large missiles and space rockets use this method to keep the nozzles from melting already so it is not as far fetched as it might sound.

    Obviously there would be problems if you get a fuel blockage and the fuel stopped flowing...

    So getting back to my point,I wonder how could the missile draw friction heat in from the tip to enhance performance( and indeed keep the missile intact)?

    I rather suspect the final answer will be a combination of new heat resistent ceramic materials that use fuel to distribute heat to the fuel tank and could be used to prep the fuel before it goes to the engine.

    Maybe decades into the future,a technology can be developed to absorb laser energy and redirect it towards an attacker?

    Like a mirror? Smile



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    Russia will test an hypersonic missile this year

    Post  dino00 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:46 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry to set a date first full test launches promising hypersonic missile capable of speeds up to Mach Five (about 5.8 thousand kilometers per hour). According to the newspaper "Izvestia", the tests are scheduled for July and August 2013, and will be produced at the site in Akhtubinsk Astrakhan region.

    The project to create hypersonic missile secret, so neither its code, no problems, no performance characteristics are unknown. The first test launch took place at the site in Akhtubinsk in 2012, but they can not be considered full. The inspections rocket separated from the suspension plane runs its own engine, fly a few miles to subsonic speed and landing.

    The purpose of the preliminary tests was to check the throwing of control rocket in flight and its interaction with the system start-up and on-board equipment of the aircraft carrier. In the new test launch parameters will be expanded: the rocket will carry longer flights already at hypersonic speeds, and the engine will run ammunition in several modes.

    The development of hypersonic missiles actively conducted in the USSR in the 1970s, but in the 1990s, has practically disappeared. In particular, "the NGO engineering" to develop missiles "Meteorite" and the late start of work on the machine with the code "4202". ICB "Rainbow" in 1980 launched a project GELA X-90. In the 1970s, based missile system S-200 missile was created "Cold", which was able to develop a speed of six thousand miles per hour.

    Currently, "NPO engineering" is involved in a joint development with India hypersonic cruise missile "Brahmos" is capable of speeds up to five Mach numbers. In addition, the Corporation "Tactical Missiles" is engaged in the creation of missile capable of a speed exceeding the speed of sound in the 12-13 times.

    In September last year, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin announced that the country plans to create a "superholding" which will develop hypersonic technologies. The holding company is expected to enter the corporation TEV "NGOs engineering."


    Lenta.ru:

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  dino00 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:33 pm

    The Russian Defence Ministry will start testing advanced hypersonic missiles in the coming summer. At present, Russia is conducting research in several areas of developing hypersonic technology, but it’s unclear which will be successful.
    The work on hypersonic vehicles conducted by the Soviet Union and the U.S. during the Cold War was suspended after it was ended. But it has restarted now. Both countries are aimed at creating guided means of destruction which should be an alternative to intercontinental ballistic missiles. This task was set at the dawn of the hypersonic technology.

    At present, the main task is to develop an engine capable of giving the vehicle necessary speed. The manoeuvering warheads are not facing this problem because the booster gives them the necessary speed. The present task is to develop a hypersonic reusable vehicle.

    This task is being solved in the U.S. where an experimental vehicle X-27 has been developed. Its testing started in 2010. At present, it is making the third orbital flight started in December 2012. It will continue for several months. The testing is aimed at developing a hypersonic weapon carrier capable of manoeuvering in the orbit and entering the atmosphere to launch attacks on anywhere in the world. But many problems, such as the designing of the vehicle, developing navigation and communication systems, are yet to be solved to achieve this goal. The traditional radio communication and radio navigation are not working during flights at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere.

    Russian developments of hypersonic vehicles are moving in several directions. Russian specialists have achieved great success in developing manoeuvering warheads. Such warheads that are heavier and bigger than ordinary ones are capable of manoeuvering in the atmosphere. This excludes their interception by the existing and promising anti-missile defence systems.

    A hypersonic missile for the Russian Navy will be developed in the next few years. The Tsirkon anti-ship system should be based on the hypersonic missile that is being developed by Russia and India on the basis of the Bramos missile. The Russian Air Force is interested in such missiles but the speed of the missiles for it should be more than ten times the speed of sound.

    Voice of Russia

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:00 pm

    BrahMos missile cant be intercepted in next 20 years: A Sivathanu Pillai


    BrahMos, the world's only supersonic cruise missile and a symbol of the India's military prowess has been billed to be "uninterceptable" for the "next 20 years", by none other than the "father of BrahMos" himself.

    "The equivalent of BrahMos is yet to built. And, in the next 20 years, it cannot be intercepted by an enemy," says A Sivathanu Pillai, scientist, and CEO and MD of BrahMos Aerospace sharing the vision for the future trajectory of growth for the iconic missile technology developed jointly by India and Russia.

    "We take pride in the fact that BrahMos, world's only supersonic cruise missile, a symbol of Indo-Russian co- operation, where India provided the guidance, avionics, software and airframe components, etc, has been successfully delivered to both the Indian Navy and the Indian Army and the aerial version for the Indian Air Force too shall be ready in few years time," Pillai told PTI in an interview.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:00 pm

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  gaurav on Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:15 pm

    U.S never developed any supersonic cruise missile only subsonic cruise missile .Now they are trying to accelerate their Hypersnic program..?

    I think that was a complete failure

    "However after 16 seconds, a fault was identified with one of the cruiser control fins.
    "Once the X-51 separated from the rocket booster, approximately 15 seconds later, the cruiser was not able to maintain control due to the faulty control fin and was lost," the Air Force statement said.
    One of four X-51A vehicles remains after a series of tests with mixed results.
    U,S hypersonic test flight


    U.S hypersonic flight test


    The other hypersonic programs such as  Falcon  HTV-2 are related to "pure" ballistic missiles hence they are not pursued eagerly.
    The ballistic missile launch can be detected as a nuke attack.

    The information given is misleading because mach numbers are inconsistent.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Hachimoto on Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:41 pm

    Don't spit because it's a US program!! it is in developement phase and the tests are here to detect failure in design / material /..etc
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    hypersonic programs

    Post  gaurav on Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:20 pm

    So much and so much thanks Cool
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    Russia, US, developments in Hypersonic Research:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:42 pm

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130930/183845015/Russia-US-Neck-and-Neck-in-Hypersonic-Research--Rogozin.html
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:02 pm

    Commenting on the recent nuclear submarine fire at a shipyard in Russia’s Far East, Rogozin said that snap inspections will be held at all Russian industrial facilities under his supervision to see how the management follows work and fire safety instructions.
    Finally at least one good idea from this guy.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:07 pm

    Oh man, Rogozin's supervision, that has to be at such high industry standards Wink

    Hopefully we get good pics from his visits (he is a twitter whore after all) that gauge the state of the Pacific Shipyards.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:31 pm

    The sheer annoyance of members always talking trash of Rogozin. The man at least pushes for domestic. I bet if you guys were in position, you would import all, right?

    Anyway, this is a very good idea, as this will keep management on their toes, especially if there is any reprecutions if there are violations.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:37 pm

    Pay me the amount of money he gets, and I will talk about "all domestic" too all over Twitter and take photo opps in snazzy jackets every other day.


    Come back to me when Rogozin actually does something without cameras around him.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:52 pm

    I like his leather jacket. Were can I get a Rogozin loadout?
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:04 am

    IDK about his leather jacket, but you can get that tank suit he was wearing from UVZ, all for the cheap affordable price of 87,000 rubles:

    http://uvzshop.ru/catalog/dress/Form-00129/

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:18 am

    Nice find TR-1... and they take Visa.... Smile


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:43 am

    Tank suit for 87,000 rub?

    It enrages me that all this new shit that they're exhibiting; the expensive tank suits, etc... none of it will find its way to the troops. It's all fucking pokazukha; for show before the cameras.
    For the troops, conscripts anyway - they'll just give out some low-quality rubbish and not what they need.

    That's what I suspect anyway. I hope I'm wrong. I just don't see how a country can change all that much in just a few years.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:14 am

    It is definitely a stupidly priced suit.

    But it is just UVZ, the real problem is MoDs attitude towards enlisted men.
    Shoigu is at least doing some work on that level - like his decree of modern showers in every base. Common sense stuff, but common sense and the Russian military are sometimes contradictory subjects.

    When you treat men like crap how do you expect they will treat their expensive shiny new Armatas...

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