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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:11 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:What difference would it be if Russia simply replaced a nuclear warhead with a warhead of similar weight that is using a conventional method like a FOAB?

    The difference? An exponentially smaller explosion.

    at the same time a heavier warhead that needs to be delivered. Not worth the effort unless we find something in between FOAB and Nuke yield of detonation power without sacrifycing anything to much onesides.

    And this is why I believe the US endevour is pointless since there really hasn't been anything in-between of a nuke and FOAB for the high weight.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:37 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:What difference would it be if Russia simply replaced a nuclear warhead with a warhead of similar weight that is using a conventional method like a FOAB?

    The difference? An exponentially smaller explosion.

    at the same time a heavier warhead that needs to be delivered. Not worth the effort unless we find something in between FOAB and Nuke yield of detonation power without sacrifycing anything to much onesides.

    And this is why I believe the US endevour is pointless since there really hasn't been anything in-between of a nuke and FOAB for the high weight.

    ...But your missing the point. The Pentagon is pushing 'conventional warheads', when they really mean tactical thermonuclear warheads. The word 'conventional', is simply a cover story.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:38 am

    GarryB wrote:
    edit: on a more positive note terrorists might hack the system and use it to kill John McCain and Hilary Clinton...  Hahaha.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:36 am

    The purpose of this system is not to become a replacement for ICBMs, it is to become a replacement for UCAVs.

    Instead of sending up a global strike UCAV and to have thousands of UAV bases all over the place in some very hostile places including, but not limited to Pakistan and Yemen, and various countries in Africa... they can have their bases in the US for an ICBM sized launcher with a glider able to hit targets anywhere.

    Now this claim for hitting any target on earth within an hour is a bit of a stretch, but the goal is to be able to hit a target very soon after spotting it.

    These weapons wont be used against cities, they will mainly be used against point targets like a specific room in a specific building, or even a vehicle.

    Its enormous speed should allow targets under deep cover to be engaged.

    Now in theory these hypersonic gliders should be able to be shot down with S-500 and perhaps even S-400 too, but the real issue is that these weapons could easily be fitted with nuclear warheads and used as extra ICBMs... there would be no way to check.

    The amusing thing, as I mentioned is that when the US gets this capability... which they desperately want, Russia and China will likely do the same... which the US desperately does not want.

    Needless to say such a system would be a useful addition to an ABM system as a first strike weapon to try to kill the enemy leadership and key points in their defence...


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:15 pm


    Well US can use those gliders from European bases also. Afterall NATO purpose is that only.Looking at the developments China is seriously working on its HGV. They already tested it 6-8 times having speed Mach 10 meanwhile US Darpa Glider having speed Mach 20 failed in the test and US stopped its testing after that saying they got enough data from the tests. Now moving to Russia they were also looking at Mach 10 Gliders projekt 4202 but they always failed in their tests, don't know the reason. US has already upgraded its tactical B61-12 nukes with precision guiding.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:05 am

    Rusσια to update Il-76LL (flying laboratory) 76454 for hypersonic tests



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1737712.html

    Did u notice that?? how exactly will be used?? will test hypersonic weapons??


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:52 am

    George1 wrote:Did u notice that?? how exactly will be used?? will test hypersonic weapons??
    I guess it will be used to launch hypersonic missiles.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:09 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    edit: on a more positive note terrorists might hack the system and use it to kill John McCain and Hilary Clinton...  Hahaha.



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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:02 am

    Did u notice that?? how exactly will be used?? will test hypersonic weapons??

    Ziron springs to mind, but I suspect there are a range of long and very long range AAMs they will want to test from air platforms.

    Just having a 150kg hardened steel plug in the core of a mach 4-5 missile would mean an actual warhead would become unnecessary for targets like large ships or even heavy building structures.


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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:40 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Did u notice that?? how exactly will be used?? will test hypersonic weapons??

    Ziron springs to mind, but I suspect there are a range of long and very long range AAMs they will want to test from air platforms.

    Just having a 150kg hardened steel plug in the core of a mach 4-5 missile would mean an actual warhead would become unnecessary for targets like large ships or even heavy building structures.


    Correct me if I am wrong but Zircon is not 12Ma class but 7Ma class missile.

    Zircon speed: V = ~2,380 m/s
    Warhead energy eq for 1kg: Eq=0.5x(1kg) x V2 = 5,66x10 pow 6 Joules
    TNT equivalent of 1kg TNTeq= 4.184×106 J


    Energy delivery ratio for kinetic/chemical warhead is 1,35.

    With Ma=5 missile is 0,7 Thus explosive still can deliver 150% more energy to the point. More speed needed.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:00 pm


    The ministry of defense is planning launch of one RS-18 (UR-100NUTTH or SS-19). The liability insurance that would cover damages to third parties should anything go wrong for RS-18/UR-100NUTTH/SS-19 the coverage is much higher - 1.2 billion rubles (about $15.6 million). Which is probably not surprising - about the only reason to launch a UR-100NUTTH missile is to test the Project 4202 vehicle. Unlike all other launches, this kind of a test can do more damage on the ground if anything goes wrong. In any event, it is highly probable that Russia is planning one Project 4202 test in 2016-2017.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:03 am

    Lockheed’s Marillyn Hewson Touts Breakthroughs in Hypersonic Weapons





    Lockheed Martin’s unmanned SR-72 aircraft concept has surfaced again with renewed vigour, with company leadership now pushing a reusable, air-breathing hypersonic vehicle as an “affordable” way to validate a new propulsion concept for achieving speeds within the atmosphere between Mach 6.0 to Mach 20.

    Speaking at a Lockheed media event in Washington DC on 15 March, company chief executive Marillyn Hewson confirmed that the company is building on “several breakthroughs” made during the short-lived HTV-3X Blackswift hypersonic testbed, which was de-funded by Congress in fiscal year 2009, to develop “a controllable, low-drag aerodynamic configuration capable of stable operation from takeoff to subsonic, transonic, supersonic and hypersonic to Mach 6”.

    Hewson, while displaying an artist’s rendering of the SR-72, said it would cost “less than $1 billion” to develop and fly a demonstrator aircraft the size of an F-22 Raptor.

    Devised by Lockheed’s Skunk Works division, SR-72 employs a turbine-based combined cycle propulsion system to get above "Mach 1.5 to 2.0," at which point it would begin converting to a supersonic combustion ramjet for speeds beyond Mach 6.

    That’s according to Skunk Works head Rob Weiss, who confirmed that it would be an unmanned vehicle, at least at first. Hewson says the company’s long-term ambition is to “enable hypersonic passenger flights and easier access to space”.

    The company’s militarised spinoffs could be an air-breathing, hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft, or perhaps even new fighters and bombers further along.

    Weiss says there is government interest but no programme of record currently, although DARPA might want to pick up where Blackswift ended and launch a proof-of-concept demonstration.

    Lockheed revealed its next-generation version of the famed SR-71 Blackbird, the SR-72, in 2013 and has said it would hope to introduce a reusable hypersonic aircraft in the mid-2020s or so. The challenge is transitioning through Mach 3.0 – since modern turbojet engines are only capable of powering an aircraft to Mach 2.2, whereas typical ramjets don’t work below Mach 4.0.

    Hewson and Weiss pointed to Lockheed's investments in hypersonic propulsion technology and high-temperature materials but didn’t say exactly how their concept will transition to from zero all the way up to hypersonic speeds except through combined propulsion technologies.

    In addition, the company is pushing super-fast, rocket-boosted weapons. Weiss says Lockheed will submit proposals for DARPA’s Tactical Boost Glide (TBC) and Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept (HAWC) demonstration programmes “later this month or in early April”.


    TBG, a high-speed glide weapon launched from a common vertical launch silo, follows in the Mach 20 contrails of the Falcon HTV-2 experiments that failed in 2010 and 2011.

    HAWC, meanwhile, builds on HyFly and the Boeing X-51A scramjet demonstration that ended successfully in 2013 after four flights.

    Funding for TBG jumps from $11.2 million to $22.8 million in DARPA’s spending blueprint for fiscal year 2017, and HAWC funding rises from $13.5 million to $49.5 million over the same period.

    “Twenty-sixteen will be a decision on winners; more than one, likely, on one or both programmes,” says Weiss, adding that flight tests are planned for 2018.
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    Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:48 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    jhelb wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    The technologies used to achieve these hypersonic speeds include one or more of the following. With all of these technologies, the speed after the reentry can be higher or lower than the reentry speed.

    1- Very low-drag RV design with exotic heat-resistance techniques.

    2- RVs with propulsion systems like scramjet engines and/or rocket engines.

    3- Variable-geometry RVs.

    Great input as always Morpheus. Many Thanks.

    This is just going to open up into a long line of questions. .I don't want to bother you. Last one, though. I am venturing to guess you won't have the time to explain each of these technologies in details, so can you please share some links, from where I can read about these technologies? Thanks again.

    Thanks, jhelb,

    I'll continue this topic in some future posts.

    Here is a link; hopefully more would be posted later.

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20150628/1023954331.html


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:15 pm

    Russia yet to achieve successful Yu-71 glider test. They've failed in all the tests till date.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:18 pm

    How do we know exactly besides open information? The project was barely mentioned before only in passing. An exactly how did it fail?
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Militarov on Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:21 pm

    max steel wrote:Russia yet to achieve successful Yu-71 glider test. They've failed in all the tests till date.

    Even designation Yu-71 is not Russian but foreign. And we dont know anything about the project itself except that it exists and that tests were performed. Nothing about tests was ever released to public from what i am aware.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:59 pm

    I guess you don't follow my posts and information is available on the success/failure of the test. Why they failed, of-course isn't being disclosed Rolling Eyes : http://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p75-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research#103423
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  Militarov on Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:11 pm

    max steel wrote:I guess you don't follow my posts and information is  available on the success/failure of the test. Why they failed, of-course isn't being disclosed  Rolling Eyes : http://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p75-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research#103423

    Reportedly, probably, maybe, might be, seems like, allegedly... as i said already.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:25 pm

    max steel wrote:I guess you don't follow my posts and information is  available on the success/failure of the test. Why they failed, of-course isn't being disclosed  Rolling Eyes : http://www.russiadefence.net/t2758p75-russia-us-and-other-developments-in-hypersonic-research#103423

    That isnt proof, quoting yourself. As militorov said, it's all assumptions and guessing.

    It reminds me of the debate on anti sat weapons and ho Americans mocked Russians because China and USA had anti sat weapons and claimed Russians didn't. Then all of a sudden, Russia tested one not long after.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:34 pm

    I knew you won't believe me , here is the source I quoted : http://russianforces.org/blog/2015/06/summary_of_the_project_4202_de.shtml

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:45 pm

    Quotes: Probably, Probably Apparently, Probably......

    Oh well, it's alright to post it, just don't take it at face value, like claims that Russia cannot make anti sat weapons then all of a sudden they did and tested it.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:49 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Quotes: Probably, Probably Apparently, Probably......

    Oh well, it's alright to post it, just don't take it at face value, like claims that Russia cannot make anti sat weapons then all of a sudden they did and tested it.

    Read those hyperlinks and links in comment . They've reported it completely.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:24 pm

    max steel wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Quotes: Probably, Probably Apparently, Probably......

    Oh well, it's alright to post it, just don't take it at face value, like claims that Russia cannot make anti sat weapons then all of a sudden they did and tested it.

    Read those hyperlinks and links in comment . They've reported it completely.

    I guess we'll have to wait for a successful flight test to see an official report on Project 4202 and learn more about the system.
    Thats from last li regard last test. So nothing has been official. So on again, speculations. Since it is from your source you linked us, it will satisfy you on why we are concerned, and why we do not take it at face value.
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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:16 pm

    So Russia could make the Buran which landed from orbit on autopilot, but can't make a toy version of this? Get f*cking real.
    Nothing in the NATzO associated press, which includes most of the 3rd world media, pertaining to Russian technology and
    science capacity can be taken seriously. It is all transparent, chauvinist, racist BS of pure wishful thinking and projection.
    There is no actual reporting of facts, just an endless stream of delusional masturbation.

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    Re: Russia, US and other developments in Hypersonic Research

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:52 am

    kvs wrote:So Russia could make the Buran which landed from orbit on autopilot, but can't make a toy version of this?   Get f*cking real.
    Nothing in the NATzO associated press, which includes most of the 3rd world media, pertaining to Russian technology and
    science capacity can be taken seriously.   It is all transparent, chauvinist, racist BS of pure wishful thinking and projection.
    There is no actual reporting of facts, just an endless stream of delusional masturbation.    


    +1 lol1

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