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    Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

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    max steel
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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:30 pm

    " MIRVed is banned under start-II? "

    I don't think so Russian nukes posses multiple warheads eg. Bulava etc. Even US Trident D-5 posses 14 warheads . China's new nukes posses both MIRV nd MARV tech . Unlike both , chinese aren't obliged to any treaty as well . They've even violated INF treaty too .


    " START 2 is defunct. Otherwise the MIRVed Yars would be a problem . "

    I think Yars is still a headache for usa regime .

    " And what makes you think that the US is not using these technologies? Once the MaRV attains sufficient speed in the atmosphere it performs a pull up maneuver to enter the glide path segment.  "


    Well for glide paths they are testing those glider vehicle not ICBM. Considering tech Russia is leading in missile tech .

    Russian forces article was written in 2007 and hasn't been updated .

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:21 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:That is why they intentionally make the low-technology RVs draggy, so draggy that it can start slowing down at the very thin atmosphere, at the very high altitude.

    Apart from intentionally designing a "low-technology" RV to have a high drag so that it can meet its deceleration requirements, there is another reason that a "low-technology" RV design becomes draggy, and that is due to the thermally mandated geometrical characteristics of such designs. I forgot to mention this in my last post. I'll elaborate on this in a later post, but the effect is similar and just compounds the problem.

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:05 am

    I don't think so Russian nukes posses multiple warheads eg. Bulava etc. Even US Trident D-5 posses 14 warheads . China's new nukes posses both MIRV nd MARV tech . Unlike both , chinese aren't obliged to any treaty as well . They've even violated INF treaty too .

    START II covered new missiles, which is why TOPOL only had one warhead.

    China, Israel, France, UK, South Africa are not party to the START II treaty and not bound by it.

    The INF treaty only applies to Russia and the US too.

    START II also banned heavy ICBMs.

    As mentioned... Start II has expired and was replaced by the Moscow Treaty.

    I think Yars is still a headache for usa regime .

    He means that if START II was in effect Yars would not be allowed.



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    max steel
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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:09 pm

    1) Do you've any idea what all MIRVed nukes Russia and US posses currently apart from Trident D5 SLBM .  study


    2) What does Moscow treaty states ?

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Rmf on Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:47 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:That is why they intentionally make the low-technology RVs draggy, so draggy that it can start slowing down at the very thin atmosphere, at the very high altitude.

    Apart from intentionally designing a "low-technology" RV to have a high drag so that it can meet its deceleration requirements, there is another reason that a "low-technology" RV design becomes draggy, and that is due to the thermally mandated geometrical characteristics of such designs. I forgot to mention this in my last post. I'll elaborate on this in a later post, but the effect is similar and just compounds the problem.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb5n2z5oLpA

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:36 pm

    max steel wrote:1) Do you've any idea what all MIRVed nukes Russia and US posses currently apart from Trident D5 SLBM .  study


    2) What does Moscow treaty states ?

    You need to read this report ...
    Which explain in detail how complicated is to intercept ICBMs flying at mach 23 , that is high highpersonic speeds..
    But to give you a brief intro of the difficulties..

    1)ICBM can have up to 100 decoys ,that looks identical to enemy radars to the warhead and impossible to
    know which is a decoy or a real nuke for the incoming interceptor missile. This means that if you use an ICBM with 4 warheads.. you will need no less than 100+4 missiles to intercept them. 104 interceptors missiles..to counter just one ICBM.. imagine how crazy is the claim that US can intercept 1,000 icbms.. thats bullshit. try better 10% of 1,000 if they very lucky .

    2)ABM is useless against cruise missiles.. you can launch a cruise missile with a nuke warhead to blind radars..and then use the fire ball to cover your missiles fly path. Cool

    3)Then you have maneuverable missiles ,

    4) Russia have submarines and can launch missiles either cruise missiles or ballistic from the pacific.. and there
    will be nothing between Russian Subs and US coast.. is impossible to trave 60+ submarines that Russia have.
    and know at all time where each one is..

    5) Russian slow bombers , are always intercepted.. yes.. but the question you need to ask.. can US stop the bombers before they launch the missiles first in a preventive nuclear attack? the answer is NO.. If Russia choose to do a preventive nuclear attack.. (based on information they know the nuclear war is inevitable). US will not know
    of Russia attack until is too late.. and already the missile launched.. Remember that US cannot shot down any bomber ,just because its flying.. it can only happen if there is a war and or the attack already was launched. ie.. too late.

    6) Russian bombers can launch nukes as far as 3,000km away of US coast.. this is beyond F-22/F-16 interceptors operational space and they escorted by fighters.. that can Jam US missiles to miss and or defend the bomber..

    7)Russia very likely in any attack ,will launch first cruise missiles with EMP to disable ,jam US radars.. Radars will not operate well ,if they

    8)Russia have reported many times ,that they managed to enter US zones without being intercepted ..

    All said the probabilities of US Defense being effective against Russian nuclear offensive is next to zero.. just
    10 nukes from 1,000 that hit in the target will be a disaster. The same is true for Russia.. i don't think either RUssia or US have the capabilities to shield completely their nation from a nuclear attack.. the best chance is militarization of space and deploy a program to shutdown withing 20 minutes all US GPS and other navigation military satellites ,
    to make it impossible for americans to hit their intended targets .. and for example miss by 1.000km.. which could end hitting Kazakistann or even Europe and not Russia..

    Russia however have major advantages in a nuclear war.

    a)their territory is far larger than US.. can take more hits..
    b)The Russian government have Public Support.. the US government not.. means that the possibilities of a civil
    war are higher for US .
    c)US is far more developed its infrastructure than Russia.. so Russia have less to lose. Russian have experience
    surviving a full tragedy ,and destruction of their nation.. so they can unite even if the most hardest conditoins ,the Americans in the other hand will start a revolution at the first moment they are without cable channel and internet.

    All said ,All Russia needs to do.. to destroy USA.. is provoke a major civil war in their nation ,that collapse its economy.. That can be done by just sinking one aircraft carrier... The key is.. that the event is seen as Russia defending itself.. and Americans doing the agression.. THis is why public opinion is important.. in a war between US and Russia.. or anyone else. If you do not have public opinion on your side.. any warship sinked will be enough
    to provoke a revolution and outrage of its people. A NAtion wide revolution in US cities can effectively shut down the power of the white house and disband the entire nation. in a week ,.much more destructive than any nuclear attack.

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  RTN on Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:24 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    You need to read this report ...

    .....Written by an imbecile for other imbeciles.

    Vann7 wrote:1)ICBM can have up to 100 decoys ,that looks identical to enemy radars to the warhead and impossible to
    know which is a decoy or a real nuke for the incoming interceptor missile. This means that if you use an ICBM with 4 warheads.. you will need no less than 100+4 missiles to intercept them.  104 interceptors missiles..to counter just one ICBM.. imagine how crazy is the claim that US can intercept 1,000 icbms.. thats bullshit.  try better 10% of 1,000 if they very lucky .

    Get admitted at the nearest mental asylum that you can find. ICBMs carrying 100 decoys..?????? Yars and Topol carry 4-6 decoys and the new liquid fueled ICBM will carry 10.


    Vann7 wrote:2)ABM is useless against cruise missiles.. you can launch a cruise missile with a nuke warhead to blind radars..and then use the fire ball to cover your missiles fly path.

    Only a dickhead will use an ABM to intercept a cruise missile.

    Vann7 wrote:3)Then you have maneuverable missiles

    So.....??????

    Vann7 wrote:4) Russia have submarines and can launch missiles either cruise missiles or ballistic from the pacific.. and there
    will be nothing between Russian Subs and US coast..

    lol! lol! lol!

    Vann7 wrote:Remember that US cannot shot down any bomber ,just because its flying.. it can only happen if there is a war and or the attack already was launched. ie.. too late.

    And your source for this is ..... hopes, dreams, wishes..???


    Vann7 wrote:All said ,All Russia needs to do.. to destroy USA.. is provoke a major civil war in their nation ,that collapse its economy..

    I will say it again, get admitted in a mental asylum ASAP.

    max steel
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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:35 pm

    Troll Mad

    TR1
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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:42 pm

    max steel wrote:1) Do you've any idea what all MIRVed nukes Russia and US posses currently apart from Trident D5 SLBM .  study


    2) What does Moscow treaty states ?

    Submarine launched ballistic missiles all use MIRVs.

    As for a detailed look at the Russian nuclear missile force, check out Pavel Podvig's blog.

    He has a nice breakdown.

    Same for the Moscow Treaty.
    It is not a very big treaty, just provides for some number caps.

    max steel
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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:54 pm

    Thanx .can I find such info for US nukes also ?

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:06 pm

    US situation is much simpler- Minuteman 3 for ICBMs, and Trident for SLMBs.

    But they do publish their info (as well as Russia) yearly, so it is all available.

    For example:

    http://fas.org/blogs/security/2014/10/newstart2014/

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:15 pm

    thumbsup

    who is Victor Cooper ?

    TR1
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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:24 pm

    Viktor Bondarev, Galvkom of the VVS.

    The cooper part I got from a shitty translation of his name to English, I thought it sounded funny.

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:36 pm



    And your source for this is ..... hopes, dreams, wishes..???  

    As i told .. US cannot shot down a Russian Bomber just because is near its coast and on international airspace..



    Those old bombers carry modern nuclear cruise missiles ,that have the pentagon complaining . Having those bombers flying every day or week near US Coast.. is a major threat to US ,because they can do a first strike  and they will never know when any bomber will attack or if just another training exercise..no way to know their intentions and you cannot shot down a bomber on international airspace if its just flying there.  Cool

    But in real practice,  Is like having someone pointing a your face with an sniper rifle from distance that can aim at you from international zone... This is a retaliation that Russia does ..to US_NATO  militarization on its borders.. that also can do the same.. launch attacks from baltic states with cruise missiles with nuclear warheads and without warning.  


    US can monitor the flights..and get close with their planes.... but if Russia do a preventive nuclear attack
    without any warning.. can an American F-22 stop a nuclear cruise missile that only takes 1-2 seconds to be launched
    from the plane. ,once it was launched? Not it can't. neither ABM defense or THAAD or patriots will intercept them. The cruise missiles will pick a flight path to avoid any land defense hugging terrain.. If Russia do a preventive strike, Americans will not know they are at war ,until a rain of nuclear missiles destroy its strategic military bases and submarines bases and COmmunications centers first.

    This is why first strike capability is important. and if you decapitate a nation leadership . lets say a dozen of people. knowing where they are.. they will be unable to effectively strike back or do the same level of damage.

    So people say.. NATO intercepted a bomber.. so what? if they decided to launch a missile ,even with they present , can the nukes be stopped if they launched first.. ? no.. pilots knows if they are ordered to bomb US with nukes ,that it will be to save their nation from a major nuclear war they aware will happen and they cannot avoid. so they are ready to sacrifice their lives for saving their nation.  The bombers will be shutdown.. yes.. but not before they launched their nuclear missiles. effectively allowing Russia to have a big head start.. in any nuclear interchange.

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:34 pm

    Don't you think the same scenario US can also create with their B-52 on russia ? They have B-52 bombers based in Germany . I got your point but it's slightly weak isn't it as Russia has to strike first for gaining that advantage and Russia's nuclear policy is againt first strike .

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:52 am

    1) Do you've any idea what all MIRVed nukes Russia and US posses currently apart from Trident D5 SLBM .

    Most SLBMs are MIRVed... the only exceptions were MARVed, or very large warhead models designed for hard targets like deeply buried bunkers.

    the Topol was a single warhead missile by design, but later Russian missiles generally are designed for more than one warhead. One version of the SS-18 had a 20 megaton single warhead intended for the Pentagon or Cheyanne mountain (ie SG-1).

    A few missiles were downloaded to only carry one warhead but now START II is no longer in effect I doubt they would remain single RVs.

    2) What does Moscow treaty states ?

    Very weak. Basically just limits to 1,200-1,500 warheads each and something like 800 or less launch platforms including bombers and SSBNs.

    BTW to defeat an ABM system you just need to launch your first most powerful warhead over the south pole and detonate it high above the atmosphere over the continental US just before you launch your main strike... make the launch look like a satellite launch and detonate a 100 Megaton warhead in orbit above the US... this would disable the radars and electronics and most power sources... it would take a day to fix and the atmosphere would be ionised so radar wouldn't work for quite some time... no one would see your ICBMs and SLBMs coming and when they destroy your cities and airfields the bombers coming next with cruise missiles wont be seen let alone shot down.


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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:47 pm

    US leadership is nothing more than pretentious sanctimonious hypocrites, it's been almost 20 years and the U.S. still hasn't ratified the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty:

    US making ‘no practical steps’ to ratify Nuclear Test Ban Treaty – Russia


    ...All this nonsense about you have stop Iran from getting a nuke, meanwhile IAEA never presses Israel on it's nuclear stockpile, and the US refuses to ratify the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, what a ridiculous joke!!!

    I think Russia should give the US govt. 1 month to ratify the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, and if they don't Russia should unilaterally end the treaty and start testing brand new warheads.

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:35 pm

    What's Russia's "Doomsday plan" In case of unavoidable nuclear exchange happen ? Something to save Russian people and enough asset to "start a new"


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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:42 pm

    More like to save the majority of the political elite. Just like it was planned back in USSR times.


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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:59 pm

    Russians have a massive underground complex in the Ural mountains that has been estimated to be approximately 400 square miles in size. In other words, it is roughly as big as the area inside the Washington D.C. beltway.


    5,000 new emergency nuclear bomb shelters were scheduled to have been completed in the city of Moscow alone by the end of 2012. Moscow authorities say the measure is urgent as the shelters currently available in the city can house no more than half of its population. Political elite will be sitting in their bunkers but as reported these shelters are for Russian citizens also . Shelter that will be located all over the city 10 to 15 meters underneath apartment blocks, shopping centers, sport complexes and parks, as in case of attack people will need to reach the shelters within a minute. Meanwhile in US they have bunkers for political elite and uber rich ( 0.1% ) people . No room for serfs ! http://rt.com/news/prime-time/moscow-bomb-shelters-outskirts/

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Mike E on Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:44 am

    TR1 wrote:More like to save the majority of the political elite. Just like it was planned back in USSR times.
    As with every country out there...

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:21 am

    max steel wrote:Don't you think the same scenario US can also create with their B-52 on russia ? They have B-52 bombers based in Germany . I got your point but it's slightly weak isn't it as Russia has to strike first for gaining that advantage and Russia's nuclear policy is againt first strike .

    Russia will change its policy withing a minute.. They are not going to wait a hundreds of Minutemans 2.. are in coalition course with moscow to retaliate.. IF Moscow receive hard solid proof ,the Americans are preparing for a nuclear strike..withing days .. by leaks and insiders they have inside the US government. (or should have). and
    if they reconfirm that with Satellite images and by several other sources.. then the Russian Government will not
    sit down and wait the American attack start.. Ideally Russia will have a routine of many bombers every week flying near US coast.. on "Training" so when the right time comes ,and they see war is inevitable ,that they will be able
    to do the first strike.. or have at very least the bombers in position to attack first. Attacking first can give a massive
    huge advantage of the one that hit first.. if for example Russia shut down US satellites NAvigarion and military the most important ones ,before a nuclear war start. Without satellites guidance. .the possibility to hit with any aceptable
    error your targets is zero.. Ie.. a missile launched towards moscow.. could land in the baltics states..

    So probably the first casualty in war , before any nuclear strike will be Satellites in space and Phones communications , and internet. Here is an interesting Report of How Russia is preparing anti nuclear bunkers for Civilians in Moscow and other parts of Russia..

    here is the discussion of the report..



    here is the full report..
    http://www.infowars.com/russia-has-constructed-massive-underground-shelters-in-anticipation-of-nuclear-war/






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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  max steel on Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:29 pm

    Russia boosts air defense in face of US Prompt Global Strike capacity



    http://rt.com/news/246869-global-strike-missile-defense/

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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:40 am

    The huge irony is that the US is trying to achieve an unobtainable capability... being able to hit a target within one hour of deciding it is a threat either means it is a space based weapon that orbits the earth every 90 minutes with about 36 of these satellites offering the ability to hit anywhere on earth within the hour, or it is going to need to be earth based and more than 72 bases all over the planet because launching from the surface of the earth takes more time and more energy than falling from space...

    The sad fact is that when they achieve it they will find that Russia will have developed the same capability and a means to defeat the US model and who knows what the Chinese will have done by then...

    In other words escalation where escalation is not needed or wanted.


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    Re: Russia in case of a nuclear war with USA:

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:21 am

    GarryB wrote:The huge irony is that the US is trying to achieve an unobtainable capability... being able to hit a target within one hour of deciding it is a threat either means it is a space based weapon that orbits the earth every 90 minutes with about 36 of these satellites offering the ability to hit anywhere on earth within the hour, or it is going to need to be earth based and more than 72 bases all over the planet because launching from the surface of the earth takes more time and more energy than falling from space...

    The sad fact is that when they achieve it they will find that Russia will have developed the same capability and a means to defeat the US model and who knows what the Chinese will have done by then...

    In other words escalation where escalation is not needed or wanted.

    For russia that would be easy to direct what kind of system the US will install, since russia is the monopoly for heavy lifting rocket engines, they could just ban RD-180 and NK-33 engines to US that would already limit their lifting capability and delay such weapon deployment, while russia wins a time to do the same with Satellite based nukes just to assure MAD.

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