Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Share
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:29 pm


    British submersible enters service with Russian Navy

    RIA Novosti

    13:52 08/12/2010

    SEVASTOPOL, December 8 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Black Sea Fleet has put into service a British-made remotely operated vehicle (ROV), a fleet spokesman said on Wednesday.

    Seaeye Panther Plus is designed to perform salvage operations including torpedo recovery and support of distressed submarines with emergency life support pods and can operate at depths up to 1,000 meters (3,000 feet).

    It was adopted for service with the Black Sea Fleet after extensive testing and a 50-hour underwater operation at depths of up to 100 meters, the spokesman said.

    The decision to buy the system from Britain was made after an incident with Russian submariners in the Bering Sea in August 2005, when Russia's AS-28 submersible became tangled in a fishing net at a depth of about 190 meters (about 620 feet).

    It was rescued after three days when a British unmanned deep-sea rescue vehicle, the Scorpio 45, cut the net's cables and freed the Priz.

    Typical (civilian) Panther applications include pipeline surveys, touch down monitoring, cable installation, drill support and NDT (nondestructive testing) inspections.

    Russian shipyards have not built a single ROV-class vehicle in the past decade.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101208-rianovosti03.htm
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:27 am


    Russia lays down new frigate for Black Sea Fleet

    RIA Novosti

    17:58 17/12/2010 MOSCOW, December 17 (RIA Novosti) - The Yantar Shipyard in the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad will start on Saturday the construction of the first Krivak IV class frigate for Russia's Black Sea Fleet, a Defense Ministry spokesman said.

    Yantar won a four-year contract on the construction of a total of three frigates for the fleet in October. The shipyard is currently building three frigates of the same class for the Indian Navy under a $1.6 billion contract.

    "This ship will be named 'Admiral Grigorovich' after the former Russian naval minister [1911- 1917]," the official said.

    A Krivak IV class frigate is equipped with a 100-mm gun, a Shtil medium-range air defense system, Club-N supersonic anti-ship missiles, two Kashtan point defense systems, two twin 533-mm torpedo launchers, and an anti-submarine warfare helicopter.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101217-rianovosti01.htm
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:45 am


    Russia, Ukraine to sign deal on Russian Black Sea Fleet rearmament

    RIA Novosti

    14:10 27/02/2011

    VLADIVOSTOK, February 27 (RIA Novosti) - Russia and Ukraine plan to sign a new agreement on the rearmament of the Russian Black Sea Fleet based in Ukraine's Crimea, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said on Sunday.

    "We are, indeed, discussing this issue and are trying to formulate new provisions for this agreement," he said.

    Under the existing accords, Russia may rearm its Black Sea fleet in the Crimea only with Ukraine's consent.

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet is stationed in Ukraine's port of Sevastopol in the Crimea under a lease agreement. On April 21, 2010, Moscow and Kiev signed a deal extending the lease on the fleet's base in Sevastopol for 25 years after the current lease expires in 2017.

    Russia is seeking to bring its ageing Soviet-era fleet up to modern standards as part of a larger effort to modernize its armed forces.

    At present, the Black Sea Fleet has about 40 operational vessels, including a single diesel-electric submarine, but most of them are slated for decommissioning.

    Russian Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky earlier said that the fleet would be reinforced with 15 new combat ships and diesel-electric submarines by 2020.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-110227-rianovosti02.htm
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:19 pm


    Russian Navy will stay in Sevastopol forever - admiral

    Topic: Black Sea Fleet

    Russia will never give up its naval base in Ukraine's port of Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula, ex-commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet Adm. Igor Kasatonov said.

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet is stationed in Crimea under a lease agreement with Ukraine. On April 21, 2010, Moscow and Kiev signed a deal extending the lease on the fleet's base in Sevastopol for 25 years after the current lease expires in 2017.

    "The year 2042 is not the final date of the Black Sea Fleet's presence in Crimea. The Russian Navy will stay in Sevastopol forever," Kasatonov said in a recent interview with the Kiev-based Expert magazine.

    "Russia will never give up either Sevastopol or the Kuril Islands," the admiral said, adding that the naval base in Sevastopol played the utmost strategic role in the protection of Russia's southwestern border.

    Kasatonov said that the Black Sea Fleet must be equipped with advanced weaponry as soon as possible to counter effectively the existing and emerging global threats.

    At present, the Black Sea Fleet has about 40 operational vessels, including a single diesel-electric submarine, but most of them are slated for decommissioning.

    Russian Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky said last year that the fleet would be reinforced with 15 new combat ships and diesel-electric submarines by 2020, and could become a formidable force by 2035.

    MOSCOW, April 23 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110423/163662123.html

    Austin

    Posts : 6279
    Points : 6677
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:11 pm

    Big Renovation Program for Russia’s Black Sea Fleet
    Mikhail Barabanov

    A total of 15 frigates and conventional submarines will be built for the Russian Black Sea Fleet by 2020, Russian Navy Commander Adm. Vladimir Vysotskiy has said. Speaking to a RIA Novosti correspondent on 23 June, he said the proportion between the frigates and the submarines will be “60 to 40” – i.e. nine frigates and six submarines. He added that the construction of one of each will begin before the end of this year. “The Black Sea Fleet will be renovated using newly built ships rather than transferring old ones from the other fleets,” the Navy commander said.

    That statement has officially confirmed the decisions made in the last 18 months by the top Russian civilian and military officials completely to renovate and significantly strengthen the Black Sea Fleet. The ongoing revival of partnership between Russia and Ukraine on military issues following the election of Viktor Yanukovich as the Ukrainian president last spring will greatly facilitate the implementation of that decision.

    Plans are afoot to build new ships of several types so as to renovate the core of the fleet by as early as 2015, giving it a much greater fighting ability. The schedule for the construction of these ships is therefore fairly tight. In order to bring forward the delivery dates and cut costs, the Navy will use the existing mass-produced ship designs. It is quite possible that the funding of the program will be augmented by ad hoc financing from the national budget.

    In 2010, Admiralty Yards in St Petersburg was in the final stages of negotiations on an MoD contract for three diesel-electric submarines for the Black Sea Fleet. The subs will be built using a modified Project 06363 design. It is based on Project 636, the successor to Project 877 (Kilo class), which was widely used in the Soviet and several foreign navies. The first of these new submarines, the Novorossiysk, was laid down at Admiralty Yards on August 20, 2010.

    The decision to use the tried and tested Project 877/636 design is explained by the ongoing delays to the operational launch of the new generation Project 677 (Lada class). The first Project 677 sub, the Sankt Petersburg, was delivered to the Navy for limited operational service only in May 2010 after almost six years of trials. The two other Lada class subs now being built by Admiralty Yards will not be completed before 2015. The Navy therefore rightly decided to fall back on the reliable and relatively cheap Project 877/636 design. The three new subs can be delivered to the Black Sea Fleet by as early as 2013 - 2014. According to the latest statement by Adm. Vysotskiy, the number of the new subs of this class to be built for the Black Sea fleet could be as high as five. The new Project 06363 submarines will be armed with the Kalibr/Club (SS N-27) advanced anti-ship and land-attack missile systems.

    Very shortly the Russian Navy is also expected to place an order with a Russian defense contractor for three frigates of the modified Project 11356M design (Talwar class). Project 11356 was specially designed for India. Three of those frigates were built by Baltiyskiy Shipyard in St Petersburg and delivered to the Indian Navy in 2003-2004. Another three (Talwar class Batch 2) are now being built for India at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad using a modified Project 11356M design. India has indicated that it might place an order for three more of those ships, for a total of nine.

    Project 11356M frigates have produced quite an impression on foreign and Russian navy specialists. They have been recognized as some of the best designed, technologically advanced and well-balanced ships of their class in the world. No wonder then that the Russian Navy, which had long shown keen interest in those ships, has now decided to have several of them built for the Black Sea Fleet. Taking into account the ships already delivered to India and those now being built for New Delhi, Project 11356M has, to all intents and purposes, entered mass production. That will undoubtedly have a very positive impact on costs and the delivery schedule for the future Russian frigates of this type. The new ships will carry the Onyx (SS-N-26) and Kalibr/Club (SS-N-27) advanced anti-ship missile systems and the Shtil-1 (SAM-17) medium-range SAM systems with a vertical launching system (VLS).

    The contract for the modified Project 11356M frigates is expected to be awarded to either the Yantar shipyards in Kaliningrad or the United Industrial Corporation (Severnaya Verf Shipyard and the Baltic Shipyard) in St Petersburg. But as of mid-September 2010 the Navy has not yet invited bids. Part of the reason is that the government is now considering the possibility of the United Industrial Corporation’s shipyards becoming part of the state-owned United Shipbuilding Corporation. So far, no firm decision has been made as to where exactly the new frigates are to be built. Nevertheless, Adm. Vysotskiy has confirmed the Navy’s determination to make sure that the first Project 11356M frigate is laid down before the year’s end. That means that all three could be commissioned in 2013-2015, becoming the core of the renovated Black Sea Fleet’s surface strength.

    The decision to use the mass-produced Project 11356 design for the new frigates appears entirely justified. The first two frigates of the new-generation Project 22350 (the Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov and the Admiral Flota Kasatonov) are still sitting half-finished in the dry docks of the SevernayaVerf Shipyard. Their completion, testing and commissioning will inevitably take very long, given all the new systems they carry. Project 22350 will not be able to enter mass production until after 2015. Since Adm. Vysotskiy said nine frigates will be built for the Black Sea Fleet by 2020, it is possible that six of them will arrive after 2015 using the Project 22350 design.

    Plans have also been confirmed to build five new Project 21631 (Tornado class) guided missile light corvettes for the Black Sea Fleet at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard on the Volga. The design is based on Project 21630 (Buyan class) Astrakhan small gunboat built for the Caspian Flotilla. The 900-tonne Project 21631 light corvette will carry the A-190 100mm artillery system and the Kalibr/Club advanced anti-ship missile system. It will be equipped with a vertical launch system (8 launchers). The first ship of this class, the Grad Sviyazhsk, was laid down at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard on August 27, 2010, with the likely completion date in 2012.

    There have also been reports that five Project 21820 (Dugon class) fast-speed air cavity landing craft could be built for the Black Sea Fleet at the Volga Shipyard in Nizhniy Novgorod.

    Finally, two Project 11540 frigates of the Baltic Fleet, the Neustrashimyy and the Yaroslav Mudryy, are expected to be transferred to the Black Sea Fleet some time in 2011. The Yaroslav Mudryy was completed and delivered to the Russian Navy only last year.

    There are also plans to augment the Black Sea coastal defenses, following the show of strength by US Navy warships in the area in August 2008. The Black Sea Fleet has recently gained the newly formed 11th Independent Coastal Missile-Artillery Brigade, stationed along the Russian coast of the Black Sea. To equip this brigade, the MoD placed an urgent order with NPO Machine-Building for a battalion (three batteries on four mobile launcher vehicles) of the latest K300P Bastion-P (SSC-5) mobile coastal defense missile systems armed with the Yakhont (Onyx export version, SS-N-26) advanced supersonic anti-ship missiles. The first two Bastion-P batteries were delivered to the 11th Brigade in late 2009 – early 2010. The third is to follow in 2011. The brigade is also armed with the Rubezh (SSC-3) and Bal (SSC-6) mobile coastal defense missile systems, as well as the 130 mm Bereg coastal defense self-propelled guns.

    It is therefore safe to say that with sufficient funding to pull off all these plans, the fighting ability of the Russian Black Sea Fleet will be growing in leaps and bounds over the next five years.

    The decision comes not a day too soon. The fleet is now essentially a small and rather quaint collection of sundry old ships, many of which belong in a museum. It has only one sub that can still put up a fight, the diesel-electric Alrosa of Project 877V (Kilo class). The repairs of the fleet’s only other submarine, an obsolete Project 641B (Tango class), have been abandoned. Of the surface ships, only the Project 1164 Moskva guided missile cruiser and two Project 1239 (Sivuch Class) fast-speed cushion guided missiles corvettes can be moderately useful in battle. All the other ships of the fleet are little more than floating junk, including the old Project 1134B (Kara class) Kertch large anti-submarine ship, three old frigates, a few guided missile and ASW corvettes, missile boats, minesweepers, and seven large tank landing ships. All of them are old and obsolete, or will be within a decade. Until recently, the additions of new ships to the fleet were very few and far between, due to Russia’s financial difficulties and Ukraine’s obstructionism. In the past decade, there was only one new ocean minesweeper and a few boats.

    Meanwhile, the continuing strategic importance to Russia of its Baltic and Black Sea fleets has been amply demonstrated by the August 2008 campaign against Georgia, when US Navy warships showed up (if for no other reason than to give Tbilisi moral support). The likelihood of the Black Sea Fleet – and, to a lesser degree, the Baltic Fleet – being put to real combat uses in the coming years seems much higher than for the ocean-going Northern and Pacific Fleets. It therefore comes as no surprise that huge resources are now being diverted to build new ships for the Black Sea Fleet and boost its fighting ability. The western theater still remains the priority for the Russian armed forces; hence the continuing importance of the two western seas, the Black Sea and the Baltic. It is there that Russia should restore its naval strength as a matter of priority before bulking up the two ocean-going fleets.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:16 pm

    I cant really imagine how do they intend to put 8cell VLS Club missiles in Buyan class ship?

    I think Amour 950 with VLS would be ideal for BSF althrow same question about VLS could be asked here too.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:07 am

    The USUK doesn't take up very much area horizontally.

    The main criteria would be depth.

    It is of course perfectly possible they might have a mini USUK launcher that is not as deep as the standard launcher that can use the shorter missile loads like the anti submarine rocket launched torpedo missile of the Club family and the land attack and anti ship models of Club, but is not deep enough to handle the larger missiles... ie Yakhont/Oniks/Brahmos.

    If they make it able to handle 6.5 metre long missiles, then it could handle the subsonic land attack and subsonic anti ship model Club and also the surface ship ballistic rocket launched torpedo Club, which is probably enough for a 900 ton vessel.

    It wouldn't be able to handle the almost 9 metre long Brahmos/Oniks/Yakhont, or the Kh-101/-102, or the supersonic antiship Club model.

    A fast missile boat should be able to get by with such a load... 8 Harpoon like missiles with anti ship or land attack capability is plenty of fire power with the added bonus of a potent anti sub capacity if needed.

    To add vertical tube launchers in a Sub is pretty easy... just add a section.

    Vertical launch tubes are ideal on a sub because it gives you the ability to launch any missile you want when you want while keeping your torpedo tubes free for use if needed.
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:15 pm

    Ukraine says will let Russia modernize Black Sea Fleet

    Ukraine will allow Russia to modernize its Black Sea Fleet, Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhaylo Yezhel said on Tuesday.



    Talks on the details of the deal are ongoing.



    Under the current lease on the Russian Black Sea Fleet's base in Crimea's Sevastopol signed in 1997, Russia cannot increase the number of combat ships or modernize its weaponry at the base.



    However, Ukraine agreed in 2010 to extend the lease until 2042 while most of the warships in service with the Black Sea Fleet are outdated.



    “The average service life of a warship is 25-30 years. It is only natural that the [current] ships will be replaced, and that is the subject of negotiations,” Yezhel said.



    During his visit to Ukraine on October 19, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said two new agreements on Russia's Black Sea Fleet were being discussed and the replacement of armament and hardware is one of the main stumbling blocs at the talks.



    The fleet is expected to receive a total of 15 new frigates and diesel-electric submarines by 2020 within the limits of the 1997 agreement.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/world/20111025/168100444.html
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3209
    Points : 3295
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  medo on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:43 pm

    How is going building of new naval base in Novorossiysk? They could base new ships in Novorossiysk instead in Sevastopol to not to have problems with Ukraine.
    avatar
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1709
    Points : 1866
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:47 pm

    medo wrote:How is going building of new naval base in Novorossiysk? They could base new ships in Novorossiysk instead in Sevastopol to not to have problems with Ukraine.

    There will be no problems with Ukraine (for the Black Sea Fleet) for the foreseable future. The Sevastopol base agreement has been extended by a few decades. Any future Ukraine government will have to live with it.

    For the Russians, Sevastopol is not just a port base. It's geopolitical value is far beyond that. They must and will stay there one way or the other.

    Novorossysk will be a secondary base. The headquarters will remain in Sevastopol no matter what.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:18 am

    They have a lot of history at Sev, and they have invested a lot of time and money and resources, so while it makes sense to keep an alternative open it also makes sense to keep using the best choice.
    avatar
    Ogannisyan8887

    Posts : 62
    Points : 111
    Join date : 2011-01-07
    Age : 25

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet move could move its base

    Post  Ogannisyan8887 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:04 am

    The Russian Federation Navy is expected to relocate its Black Sea Fleet from the Crimean port of Sevastopol in Ukraine to a new naval base at Novorossiysk, Russia, from 2020: eight years later than originally planned.

    The delay could leave the fleet without a home for three years because Russia's lease on the facilities in Sevastopol is due to expire in 2017 and the Ukrainian government appears unwilling to extend the agreement.

    Russian media reported last year that the Novorossiysk base would become operational in 2012, but the revised date of 2020 was confirmed by Nikolay Abroskin, head of Russia's Federal Agency for Special Construction, on 14 July.

    http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?ID=1065927856
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:50 am

    Good old Janes... the Black Sea Fleets basing agreement has been extended to something like 2043 or something, so the movement of the Black Sea Fleet might be further delayed beyond 2020.
    avatar
    runaway

    Posts : 348
    Points : 369
    Join date : 2010-11-12
    Location : Sweden

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  runaway on Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:Good old Janes... the Black Sea Fleets basing agreement has been extended to something like 2043 or something, so the movement of the Black Sea Fleet might be further delayed beyond 2020.

    Yes, and its unlikely they will leave even then.
    Sevastopol was stolen by Ukraine, and one day the Russians will take it back.

    Novosiirisk will be a second line base, or a reserve should war breake out on Krim.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:12 am

    Well I would like to see it returned to Russian ownership, but would rather see it given back.

    Taken back suggests bloodshed.

    Perhaps a referendum in the Crimea, there are plenty of people there who consider themselves Russian.

    Without the use of violence I am sure half of the Ukraine would like to become part of the Russian Federation again.

    Lets face it however... right now the Russian Navy is not in a good state, but as it recovers it is going to have lots of "foreign" bases.

    I am sure in 10-15 years the Russian Navy might like to return to Vietnam and Cuba, and expand its base in Syria.

    Right now such things will be once only visits, but in 10-15 years time when the Russian Navy is operating around the world these bases will become valuable places to stop and replenish resources and make repairs etc... saving a voyage all the way back to a Russian port.
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:54 am


    Russian Navy to receive 10 diesel submarines by 2020

    © RIA Novosti. Alexey Danichev
    01:28 22/11/2011
    MOSCOW, November 22 (RIA Novosti)
    Tags: submarines, Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard, Russia

    The Russian Navy is planning to receive up to 10 diesel-electric submarines by 2020, a Navy spokesman said.

    “The Russian Navy expects to receive 8-10 diesel submarines by 2020,” the official said on Monday.

    The new submarines will strengthen primarily Russia’s Baltic and Back Sea fleets, he added.

    Russia’s Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard on Monday launched the construction of a Project 636.3 modernized Kilo-class submarine.

    The Project 636 vessels, crewed by 52 submariners, have an underwater speed of 20 knots, a cruising range of 400 miles with the ability to patrol for 45 days. They are armed with 18 torpedoes and eight surface-to-air missiles.

    The spokesman said the improved Kilo class submarines will feature advanced “stealth” technology, extended combat range and ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets.

    © RIA Novosti.





    The Russian Navy currently has about 20 diesel-electric submarines deployed to protect Russia’s territorial waters.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20111122/168916712.html
















    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Russian Patriot

    Posts : 1166
    Points : 2054
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 26
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:58 am

    Russian shipyard starts construction of new submarine

    Russia’s Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard on Monday launched the construction of a Project 636.3 Kilo-class submarine.

    The Rostov-on-Don diesel electric submarine will be the first in a five-sub series the shipyard is to build for the Russian Navy, Verfi’s acting chief Alexander Buzakov said.

    He offered no indication as to when the submarine would be completed.

    The submarine is expected to enter service with the Black Sea Fleet.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20111121/168897876.html
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:51 am

    It is good that they have ordered 5 upgraded Kilos rather than one or two subs. They should be able to keep costs under control and order larger amounts of material and operate more efficiently.

    It is likely that the remaining 5 or so conventional subs to be built by 2020 will be the Lada class, also known as the Amur class which is currently having a few teething troubles.

    The Russians seem to have decided that hydrogen fuel cell technology is too dangerous in a submarine environment and they are currently investing in lithium ion technology to improve underwater performance.

    Personally I think the small compact nuclear power plants they use in space craft would be a much better idea as they are very similar in operation to a battery that is fully charged and will never completely discharge for the life of the vessel.

    It might not power the sub at high speed underwater like a full sized NPP (nuclear power plant) would, but it would enable the sub to sit silently underwater for weeks at a time just operating the carbon dioxide scrubbers (to keep the crew alive) and charging the main batteries to allow the vessel to operate more often as a quiet electric drive sub than as a noisy diesel.

    For emergencies a Kilo or Amur sized vessel could easily carry 4 or more of these power plants which can operate for 10-15 years and then be replaced like batteries. Note they don't have generators or water flow so they don't make noise.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10362
    Points : 10833
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:45 pm

    I think that black sea fleet needs new corvettes like Steregushcy class to complement Krivak IV class frigates. Large ships like slava class cruiser should go to pacific fleet and old Krivaks and Karas should finally be decommissioned
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:04 pm

    I largely agree with your suggestions, but I think in the Black Sea they should have vessels a bit more potent than Corvettes.

    I would suggest 10-12 Frigate sized vessels and an Ivan Gren landing vessel... just in case Georgia starts getting delusional again.

    Corvettes would be sufficient in the Caspian Sea, perhaps with a Frigate flagship to coordinate things and carry around a Helo.

    The faster they can produce the new Frigates and the new Destroyers the better as there are plenty of older vessels that need to be replaced.

    The older vessels have a range of weapons and sensors and propulsion and electronics, so replacing them with new vessels with standardised kit like radars and EO turrets and weapon systems like the UKSK system and perhaps Redut etc will make maintainence and support much easier and cheaper.

    Would love it if they donated a Kara class ship to New Zealand and they docked it in Dunedin Harbour as a museum that people can go on board and have a look around on... Smile
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10362
    Points : 10833
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:46 pm

    Black sea is a "closed" sea. Russian navy don't need long range vessels there. Which are the threats for Russia in black sea? Torpedo boats of Georgia? I don't think so. Only Turkey is the real opponent. So they will have to face the modernized O.Hazard Perry and MEKO frigates and type 209 submarines of Turkish navy.
    I think that Stereguschy class for coastal defense and Krivak IV class multirole ships are enough (3+3). And maybe 1-2 Gorshkov class in the future
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:29 pm

    First of all the Caspian Sea is the closed sea, the Black Sea is Russias access to the Med, and its fastest route to north africa.

    I agree that they don't need Kirovs and Mistrals, but they do need vessels with decent firepower as many of the countries that border the Black Sea are NATO countries, so NATO air power is a direct threat... a Frigate would be much better equipped to defend itself than a Corvette.

    They will need an Ivan Gren class landing vessel to potentially do the "same again"... only better, and a few frigates will be useful for that.

    They want a decent force there but not too expensive and powerful.
    avatar
    runaway

    Posts : 348
    Points : 369
    Join date : 2010-11-12
    Location : Sweden

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  runaway on Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:41 pm

    George1 wrote:I think that black sea fleet needs new corvettes like Steregushcy class to complement Krivak IV class frigates.
    There is in fact a plan to do so, and rumors has that Yaroslav Mudry will transfer to BSF. Soon she will be in Tartus, and i think she will redeploy after that. Besides, a few Gorshkov class frigates will also be comissioned to BSF in the nearest time. The first in 2012-2013, Fleet Admiral Kasatonov.


    Large ships like slava class cruiser should go to pacific fleet and old Krivaks and Karas should finally be decommissioned

    Well, the Kara cruiser Ochakov, was decomissioned in Aug 2011, and as of beginning of 2012, the Kerch is the last active Kara cruiser. Its combat value is low, and the only reason to keep her is probably to have ships for crews to exercise and learn on.
    The last active Krivak , Ladny, is right now in Kuznetsovs task force, and she will probably remain in service until the new frigates are comissioned.

    I think the Slava class Moskva will remain BSF flagship, for a number of reasons.
    First, she is important for "show of force" or "showing the flag"
    Second, the BS and Med is a hotspot now, much more than the Pacific. They need every ship they can deploy there.
    Third, but perhaps not last, as Moskva is beginning to get obselete, i stress i say beginning, it would make little sence in redeploying her before a modernization and refit.

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16401
    Points : 17014
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:13 pm

    I would add that the traitorous attack by Georgia on South Ossetia was a real kick in the balls to the Russians... it was a very nasty surprise that made them realise they have a few vulnerabilities that they need to address.

    Their biggest vulnerabilities are the Kurile Islands in the far east... because the Japanese Navy is quite capable and the Far East Fleet, or Pacific Fleet was in a very poor state... not just in ships and subs, but in ports and support vessels.

    They need a huge number of smaller ships like Corvettes up to Destroyer and Frigates in between to do the bread and butter work and form the arms and legs of a carrier group... carriers and cruisers providing the head and body.

    The small ships and support ships are needed and will be easiest to start making and their development and production will create a workforce and tooling and port upgrades needed to build both larger ships and the support ships needed to operate a real navy.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5681
    Points : 5709
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:43 am

    Kerch is in great shape, regularly goes out and does 30 plus knots, everything working, crews happy with ship. Certainly much more useful combat unit than ancient Smetlivyy.

    Happy Birthday to the Pitlivy, it turns 30 this day! Very busy ship too.

    I expect by 2017 at the latest for the older large ships (Smetlivy, Kerch, Ladny and Pitlivy) to all be gone, though the replacements (Grigorovich line) should arrive on time.

    At the current pace, Black Sea Fleet and Caspian Flotilla will be in solid shape with new ships well before 2020:

    BSF (what we know so far):
    Admiral Grigorovich
    Admiral Essen
    Admiral Makarov
    Alrosa + 3 636.3
    At least 1 22350 (likely Admiral Kasatatonov)
    At least 1 20385
    Potential transfer of Neustrashimy and Yaroslav Mudry

    Caspian has both 11661 frigates, 3 21630 corvettes by 2012, and is due to receive the first 21631 next year as well.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:50 pm