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    Future of the Black Sea Fleet

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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:49 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:Any news on the Slava Class Cruiser there ? Very Happy

    i would really like to hear that cruiser also got upgrades too

    There hasn't been any decision on upgrading any of the old cruisers yet.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:56 am

    Upgrading old vessels is a risky business in some cases.

    In the case of the old Kiev class carrier upgrade for India the problem was they expected to be able to leave a lot of the wiring and pipes in place.
    When they opened her up for the upgrade it was found it needed to be completely rewired and repiped which added time and material costs.

    With an upgrade of a Slava class vessel or for that matter a Kirov class vessel it is more straight forward in the sense that it is known from the start all the wiring and possibly even propulsion needs replacing.

    The simple fact is that if you want carriers then you need large ships to operate with the carriers to help protect the battle group.

    The huge advantage is that modern versions of weapons and sensors are smaller and lighter than Soviet era weapons so you can either carry more or free up space for extra supplies to increase deployment range/time.

    The Kirov class were the first operationally deployed vessels with vertical launch system for missiles, but further improvements could greatly improve defence performance. For instance the SA-N-6 SAM system had a range of 90km in the 1980s, with 96 missiles on board with 12 ready to launch missiles with 8 further missiles in magazines for reloading. Today using the newer missiles you have a choice of the same number of missiles (96) with a range of 400km, each in their own launch cells ready to launch, or a mix of smaller missiles with a range of 40km and 120km with 4 times more missiles (384 missiles) all ready to launch, or a combination of the two... say 40 missiles with a range of 400km, plus the remaining 56 launch cells each with 4 missiles, say half (112) 40km range and the other half (112) 120km range.
    That is 264 missiles and that is just the SA-N-6 system.
    New compact sensors and weapons alone will make the tops of the vessels less cluttered and reshaping of the superstructure could be used to reduce radar signature considerably.

    Smaller vessels can be produced from scratch using the latest sensors and weapons too, so there is no reason to have idle shipyards.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:03 am

    The Black Sea Fleet until 2020 will receive 6 frigates and 6 SSK


    Le Bourget, 27 October. (ITAR-TASS). In accordance with the State Armaments Program, for the period until 2020, the Russian Black Sea Fleet will receive 6 frigates and six diesel-electric submarines (SSK), the deputy commander of the Russian Navy's armament, Vice-Admiral Nikolai Borisov.

    "It is planned that in the period of the state program, battle of the Black Sea fleet supplemented by six frigates of Project 11356 and six diesel submarines of Project 636 (pictured) - said the admiral. - The first submarine of this series have already been laid. In November, will be laid first frigate."

    Borisov said that the frigates will be built in Kaliningrad on the Baltic Shipyard (CCL), "Amber", who won the corresponding contest. "Even a contract for the construction of three frigates series, which is long gone," - said the admiral.

    Project 11356 frigate has a displacement of 4 tons. Cruising Range - 4850 miles, autonomy - 30 days, the crew - 180 people. Armament - anti, anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, a 100-mm artillery shells, two twin-tube torpedo launchers, helicopter Ka-28 or Ka-31.

    Submarine Project 636 Varshavyanka (NATO classification - Improved Kilo) has an underwater displacement of 3,950 tons, Operating depth 240 m. The crew - 57 men armed - 6 bow torpedo tubes, anti-ship missile system.

    At the same time, the General Staff of the Navy announced today that the Black Sea Fleet until 2020, will take in its membership, 18 new ships, including 6 frigates, the same number of diesel submarines and two large amphibious ships. "Furthermore, until 2016, naval aviation's Black Sea Fleet will receive upgraded Su-24M bombers, instead of outdated samples of this machine, and instead of amphibious aircraft Be-12 - a more modern anti-IL-38," - said the source.

    Commander in Chief of the Navy Vladimir Vysotsky in late September, also promised that, beginning in 2013, BSF will be replenished each year by at least one frigate of Project 11356.

    The defense ministers of Russia and Ukraine, Anatoly Serdyukov and Mikhail Yezhel October 20 signed in Livadia (Crimea), the Protocol on the Ukrainian side about the number of personnel, equipment and weapons Russian Black Sea Fleet on Ukrainian territory. "The Russian-Ukrainian protocol was signed in accordance with the Government of the Russian Federation of 21 July 2008", - explained the contents of this document, press secretary of the Defense Minister Irina Kovalchuk. "The protocol stipulates that Russia will annually submit to Ukraine on 1 January next year, information on the number of personnel, equipment and major arms of Black Sea Fleet on Ukrainian territory," - said Kovalchuk. According to her, "talking about the total number of personnel, the number of combat ships and submarines, auxiliary ships, armored combat vehicles, aircraft, artillery systems, 100 mm caliber and above, mortars 82 mm and above."

    Thus, settled the issue, repeatedly bedeviled relations between the two countries since August 27, 2008 the Ukrainian government by decree of then President Viktor Yushchenko issued a decree regulating the intersection of the Ukrainian state border troops, warships and aircraft of Russian Black Sea Fleet. In unilaterally was to tighten the intersection of ships and vessels BSF state border of Ukraine and the movement of Russian troops outside the places of permanent deployment. Russian Foreign Ministry described the ruling as anti-Russian step, contrary to the spirit and letter of agreements on the Black Sea Fleet and the Treaty of Amity. The Russian side in this regard has repeatedly stated: it comes from the fact that national regulations must comply with the basic agreements on the presence of Russian fleet on Ukrainian territory.

    Currently, the Black Sea fleet has about 40 combat units, of which over 20 are combat ready status. The potential of naval forces can make a general volley of more than 100 missiles and 60 torpedoes and 200 artillery rounds. Number of troops in the Black Sea Fleet in peacetime is about 18,5 thousand soldiers. In enterprises and institutions are about 20 thousand civilians. Most of the ships of the fleet (BSF is the oldest on the average age of military units among the Russian fleets) are in service for over 40 years, the vast majority of its ships 1 - 2 rank launched in 70 of the last century. So far in the ranks rescue ship "Commune," which in 2013 will be 100 years old.

    In the battle of the Black Sea Fleet has the 43rd Regiment separate naval assault with a Sukhoi Su-24 and Su-24MR reconnaissance on the airfield Guards, as well as the 917 th Aviation Regiment separate mixed with Be-12 military transport aircraft An-2, An- 12, AN-26 transport helicopters and Mi-8 at the airport in Kutch. Ibid based 25-th separate ASW Helicopter Regiment with the Ka-27 ship, marine Mi-14 and Mi-8. Total Black Sea Fleet naval aviation has about 35 planes and 20 helicopters.

    Basic agreement with Ukraine on Black Sea Fleet is determined to keep Russia's right in the Crimea and Sevastopol are more than 100 warships it needs classes and projects and to increase the troop strength of up to 25 thousand people.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:29 pm


    British submersible enters service with Russian Navy

    RIA Novosti

    13:52 08/12/2010

    SEVASTOPOL, December 8 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Black Sea Fleet has put into service a British-made remotely operated vehicle (ROV), a fleet spokesman said on Wednesday.

    Seaeye Panther Plus is designed to perform salvage operations including torpedo recovery and support of distressed submarines with emergency life support pods and can operate at depths up to 1,000 meters (3,000 feet).

    It was adopted for service with the Black Sea Fleet after extensive testing and a 50-hour underwater operation at depths of up to 100 meters, the spokesman said.

    The decision to buy the system from Britain was made after an incident with Russian submariners in the Bering Sea in August 2005, when Russia's AS-28 submersible became tangled in a fishing net at a depth of about 190 meters (about 620 feet).

    It was rescued after three days when a British unmanned deep-sea rescue vehicle, the Scorpio 45, cut the net's cables and freed the Priz.

    Typical (civilian) Panther applications include pipeline surveys, touch down monitoring, cable installation, drill support and NDT (nondestructive testing) inspections.

    Russian shipyards have not built a single ROV-class vehicle in the past decade.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101208-rianovosti03.htm

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:27 am


    Russia lays down new frigate for Black Sea Fleet

    RIA Novosti

    17:58 17/12/2010 MOSCOW, December 17 (RIA Novosti) - The Yantar Shipyard in the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad will start on Saturday the construction of the first Krivak IV class frigate for Russia's Black Sea Fleet, a Defense Ministry spokesman said.

    Yantar won a four-year contract on the construction of a total of three frigates for the fleet in October. The shipyard is currently building three frigates of the same class for the Indian Navy under a $1.6 billion contract.

    "This ship will be named 'Admiral Grigorovich' after the former Russian naval minister [1911- 1917]," the official said.

    A Krivak IV class frigate is equipped with a 100-mm gun, a Shtil medium-range air defense system, Club-N supersonic anti-ship missiles, two Kashtan point defense systems, two twin 533-mm torpedo launchers, and an anti-submarine warfare helicopter.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101217-rianovosti01.htm

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:45 am


    Russia, Ukraine to sign deal on Russian Black Sea Fleet rearmament

    RIA Novosti

    14:10 27/02/2011

    VLADIVOSTOK, February 27 (RIA Novosti) - Russia and Ukraine plan to sign a new agreement on the rearmament of the Russian Black Sea Fleet based in Ukraine's Crimea, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said on Sunday.

    "We are, indeed, discussing this issue and are trying to formulate new provisions for this agreement," he said.

    Under the existing accords, Russia may rearm its Black Sea fleet in the Crimea only with Ukraine's consent.

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet is stationed in Ukraine's port of Sevastopol in the Crimea under a lease agreement. On April 21, 2010, Moscow and Kiev signed a deal extending the lease on the fleet's base in Sevastopol for 25 years after the current lease expires in 2017.

    Russia is seeking to bring its ageing Soviet-era fleet up to modern standards as part of a larger effort to modernize its armed forces.

    At present, the Black Sea Fleet has about 40 operational vessels, including a single diesel-electric submarine, but most of them are slated for decommissioning.

    Russian Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky earlier said that the fleet would be reinforced with 15 new combat ships and diesel-electric submarines by 2020.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2011/russia-110227-rianovosti02.htm

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  runaway on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:03 pm

    And it seems a deal of cruiser Name NO, former Ukraine, is soon finilized.
    This Slava class ship has been in a building state for 20 years. The hull is appearently not so rusty, that it wouldnt be seaworthy.
    But weapons and all electronics will have to be exchanged for modern ones. 2 years of work? Then she will be comissioned into Black sea fleet.

    A good deal? Yes, for a new cruiser is many years away and this is a quick way to strenghten the fleet signifiencly.
    I also think that the other cruiser, Moscow is in need to be overhauled and modernized.

    Is the SSN-12 sandbox still the primary weapon? If so, its in dire need to be upgraded to the PJ-10 BrahMos, or P-800 Oniks.



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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:58 pm

    It might have Bazalt but I suspect they will change that to Vulkan as that is made by a Russian company.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:30 pm

    I wonder will they change the air-defence component as original Slava class has only one shooting radar placed at the rear.

    Im not familiar that Top Pair/Top Steir/Top Plate are able to guide S-300 missiles living only Top Dome for the job.

    But Top Dome is able to guide only 6 missiles at the time and does not cover 360 degrees around the ship.

    Something more modern with modern VLS/9M96/48N6DM and AESA on top would be appropriate.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:28 pm

    Hopefully with their standardisation programs in place they will unify the electronics and weapons and propulsion with existing Slava class vessels and will replace the large Bazalt missiles in angled launchers with a large number of UKSK vertical launch tubes for many more missiles.

    The reduction in size of electronics and other equipment might allow for the refit... because the old Bazalt launchers sat on the deck, whereas the new vertical launch bins take up space below deck. Perhaps a bit more automation to reduce the crew size and free up some more space might help?


    Last edited by GarryB on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  runaway on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hopefully with their standardisation programs in place they will unify the electronics and weapons and propulsion with existing Slava class vessels and will replace the large Bazalt missiles in angled launchers with a large number of USUK vertical launch tubes for many more missiles.

    The reduction in size of electronics and other equipment might allow for the refit... because the old Bazalt launchers sat on the deck, whereas the new vertical launch bins take up space below deck. Perhaps a bit more automation to reduce the crew size and free up some more space might help?

    That sounds like a good idea, but also a lot of rebuilding. As many shipyards have full orderbooks, perhaps the Ukrainian shipyards can be activated?

    Alot of smaller missiles in VLT tubes below deck, new airdefences, new electronics and new propulsion will almost make an entirely new ship. Rebuild time will be at least 2 years, perhaps even 3-4 years as its a project never done before.

    And to begin with, it will be Slava nr 4 to be first. Although i`m not sure it will be rebuilt to such a large extent.

    By the way, the new Ivan Green landing ship will be commisioned into Black sea fleet.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:25 am

    I think the standardisation will work both ways... in building and in operation.

    A good ground up redesign with all new electronics and weapons can be applied to all the Slava class vessels they have, which means what they do to this Ukrainian ship they can also do to the Slava class vessels in Russian Navy service too (AFAIK they have 3 vessels so this Ukrainian addition will make a nice round figure of 4).

    This will make the upgrade cheaper and they can optimise the upgrade and will likely be quite efficient by the time they do the last vessel.

    The obvious other benefit is that you end up with a group of ships that use all the same standard stuff as the other new ships in your fleet which increases production of specific components which should reduce costs, both to buy, to fit, to use, and to maintain, and also operations costs and training costs and maintainence costs will be reduced because you learn how to maintain the main guns on one vessel and get transferred to a different class and it has the same gun connected to the same sensors... etc etc.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:19 pm


    Russian Navy will stay in Sevastopol forever - admiral

    Topic: Black Sea Fleet

    Russia will never give up its naval base in Ukraine's port of Sevastopol on the Crimean peninsula, ex-commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet Adm. Igor Kasatonov said.

    Russia's Black Sea Fleet is stationed in Crimea under a lease agreement with Ukraine. On April 21, 2010, Moscow and Kiev signed a deal extending the lease on the fleet's base in Sevastopol for 25 years after the current lease expires in 2017.

    "The year 2042 is not the final date of the Black Sea Fleet's presence in Crimea. The Russian Navy will stay in Sevastopol forever," Kasatonov said in a recent interview with the Kiev-based Expert magazine.

    "Russia will never give up either Sevastopol or the Kuril Islands," the admiral said, adding that the naval base in Sevastopol played the utmost strategic role in the protection of Russia's southwestern border.

    Kasatonov said that the Black Sea Fleet must be equipped with advanced weaponry as soon as possible to counter effectively the existing and emerging global threats.

    At present, the Black Sea Fleet has about 40 operational vessels, including a single diesel-electric submarine, but most of them are slated for decommissioning.

    Russian Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky said last year that the fleet would be reinforced with 15 new combat ships and diesel-electric submarines by 2020, and could become a formidable force by 2035.

    MOSCOW, April 23 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110423/163662123.html

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Austin on Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:11 pm

    Big Renovation Program for Russia’s Black Sea Fleet
    Mikhail Barabanov

    A total of 15 frigates and conventional submarines will be built for the Russian Black Sea Fleet by 2020, Russian Navy Commander Adm. Vladimir Vysotskiy has said. Speaking to a RIA Novosti correspondent on 23 June, he said the proportion between the frigates and the submarines will be “60 to 40” – i.e. nine frigates and six submarines. He added that the construction of one of each will begin before the end of this year. “The Black Sea Fleet will be renovated using newly built ships rather than transferring old ones from the other fleets,” the Navy commander said.

    That statement has officially confirmed the decisions made in the last 18 months by the top Russian civilian and military officials completely to renovate and significantly strengthen the Black Sea Fleet. The ongoing revival of partnership between Russia and Ukraine on military issues following the election of Viktor Yanukovich as the Ukrainian president last spring will greatly facilitate the implementation of that decision.

    Plans are afoot to build new ships of several types so as to renovate the core of the fleet by as early as 2015, giving it a much greater fighting ability. The schedule for the construction of these ships is therefore fairly tight. In order to bring forward the delivery dates and cut costs, the Navy will use the existing mass-produced ship designs. It is quite possible that the funding of the program will be augmented by ad hoc financing from the national budget.

    In 2010, Admiralty Yards in St Petersburg was in the final stages of negotiations on an MoD contract for three diesel-electric submarines for the Black Sea Fleet. The subs will be built using a modified Project 06363 design. It is based on Project 636, the successor to Project 877 (Kilo class), which was widely used in the Soviet and several foreign navies. The first of these new submarines, the Novorossiysk, was laid down at Admiralty Yards on August 20, 2010.

    The decision to use the tried and tested Project 877/636 design is explained by the ongoing delays to the operational launch of the new generation Project 677 (Lada class). The first Project 677 sub, the Sankt Petersburg, was delivered to the Navy for limited operational service only in May 2010 after almost six years of trials. The two other Lada class subs now being built by Admiralty Yards will not be completed before 2015. The Navy therefore rightly decided to fall back on the reliable and relatively cheap Project 877/636 design. The three new subs can be delivered to the Black Sea Fleet by as early as 2013 - 2014. According to the latest statement by Adm. Vysotskiy, the number of the new subs of this class to be built for the Black Sea fleet could be as high as five. The new Project 06363 submarines will be armed with the Kalibr/Club (SS N-27) advanced anti-ship and land-attack missile systems.

    Very shortly the Russian Navy is also expected to place an order with a Russian defense contractor for three frigates of the modified Project 11356M design (Talwar class). Project 11356 was specially designed for India. Three of those frigates were built by Baltiyskiy Shipyard in St Petersburg and delivered to the Indian Navy in 2003-2004. Another three (Talwar class Batch 2) are now being built for India at the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad using a modified Project 11356M design. India has indicated that it might place an order for three more of those ships, for a total of nine.

    Project 11356M frigates have produced quite an impression on foreign and Russian navy specialists. They have been recognized as some of the best designed, technologically advanced and well-balanced ships of their class in the world. No wonder then that the Russian Navy, which had long shown keen interest in those ships, has now decided to have several of them built for the Black Sea Fleet. Taking into account the ships already delivered to India and those now being built for New Delhi, Project 11356M has, to all intents and purposes, entered mass production. That will undoubtedly have a very positive impact on costs and the delivery schedule for the future Russian frigates of this type. The new ships will carry the Onyx (SS-N-26) and Kalibr/Club (SS-N-27) advanced anti-ship missile systems and the Shtil-1 (SAM-17) medium-range SAM systems with a vertical launching system (VLS).

    The contract for the modified Project 11356M frigates is expected to be awarded to either the Yantar shipyards in Kaliningrad or the United Industrial Corporation (Severnaya Verf Shipyard and the Baltic Shipyard) in St Petersburg. But as of mid-September 2010 the Navy has not yet invited bids. Part of the reason is that the government is now considering the possibility of the United Industrial Corporation’s shipyards becoming part of the state-owned United Shipbuilding Corporation. So far, no firm decision has been made as to where exactly the new frigates are to be built. Nevertheless, Adm. Vysotskiy has confirmed the Navy’s determination to make sure that the first Project 11356M frigate is laid down before the year’s end. That means that all three could be commissioned in 2013-2015, becoming the core of the renovated Black Sea Fleet’s surface strength.

    The decision to use the mass-produced Project 11356 design for the new frigates appears entirely justified. The first two frigates of the new-generation Project 22350 (the Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov and the Admiral Flota Kasatonov) are still sitting half-finished in the dry docks of the SevernayaVerf Shipyard. Their completion, testing and commissioning will inevitably take very long, given all the new systems they carry. Project 22350 will not be able to enter mass production until after 2015. Since Adm. Vysotskiy said nine frigates will be built for the Black Sea Fleet by 2020, it is possible that six of them will arrive after 2015 using the Project 22350 design.

    Plans have also been confirmed to build five new Project 21631 (Tornado class) guided missile light corvettes for the Black Sea Fleet at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard on the Volga. The design is based on Project 21630 (Buyan class) Astrakhan small gunboat built for the Caspian Flotilla. The 900-tonne Project 21631 light corvette will carry the A-190 100mm artillery system and the Kalibr/Club advanced anti-ship missile system. It will be equipped with a vertical launch system (8 launchers). The first ship of this class, the Grad Sviyazhsk, was laid down at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard on August 27, 2010, with the likely completion date in 2012.

    There have also been reports that five Project 21820 (Dugon class) fast-speed air cavity landing craft could be built for the Black Sea Fleet at the Volga Shipyard in Nizhniy Novgorod.

    Finally, two Project 11540 frigates of the Baltic Fleet, the Neustrashimyy and the Yaroslav Mudryy, are expected to be transferred to the Black Sea Fleet some time in 2011. The Yaroslav Mudryy was completed and delivered to the Russian Navy only last year.

    There are also plans to augment the Black Sea coastal defenses, following the show of strength by US Navy warships in the area in August 2008. The Black Sea Fleet has recently gained the newly formed 11th Independent Coastal Missile-Artillery Brigade, stationed along the Russian coast of the Black Sea. To equip this brigade, the MoD placed an urgent order with NPO Machine-Building for a battalion (three batteries on four mobile launcher vehicles) of the latest K300P Bastion-P (SSC-5) mobile coastal defense missile systems armed with the Yakhont (Onyx export version, SS-N-26) advanced supersonic anti-ship missiles. The first two Bastion-P batteries were delivered to the 11th Brigade in late 2009 – early 2010. The third is to follow in 2011. The brigade is also armed with the Rubezh (SSC-3) and Bal (SSC-6) mobile coastal defense missile systems, as well as the 130 mm Bereg coastal defense self-propelled guns.

    It is therefore safe to say that with sufficient funding to pull off all these plans, the fighting ability of the Russian Black Sea Fleet will be growing in leaps and bounds over the next five years.

    The decision comes not a day too soon. The fleet is now essentially a small and rather quaint collection of sundry old ships, many of which belong in a museum. It has only one sub that can still put up a fight, the diesel-electric Alrosa of Project 877V (Kilo class). The repairs of the fleet’s only other submarine, an obsolete Project 641B (Tango class), have been abandoned. Of the surface ships, only the Project 1164 Moskva guided missile cruiser and two Project 1239 (Sivuch Class) fast-speed cushion guided missiles corvettes can be moderately useful in battle. All the other ships of the fleet are little more than floating junk, including the old Project 1134B (Kara class) Kertch large anti-submarine ship, three old frigates, a few guided missile and ASW corvettes, missile boats, minesweepers, and seven large tank landing ships. All of them are old and obsolete, or will be within a decade. Until recently, the additions of new ships to the fleet were very few and far between, due to Russia’s financial difficulties and Ukraine’s obstructionism. In the past decade, there was only one new ocean minesweeper and a few boats.

    Meanwhile, the continuing strategic importance to Russia of its Baltic and Black Sea fleets has been amply demonstrated by the August 2008 campaign against Georgia, when US Navy warships showed up (if for no other reason than to give Tbilisi moral support). The likelihood of the Black Sea Fleet – and, to a lesser degree, the Baltic Fleet – being put to real combat uses in the coming years seems much higher than for the ocean-going Northern and Pacific Fleets. It therefore comes as no surprise that huge resources are now being diverted to build new ships for the Black Sea Fleet and boost its fighting ability. The western theater still remains the priority for the Russian armed forces; hence the continuing importance of the two western seas, the Black Sea and the Baltic. It is there that Russia should restore its naval strength as a matter of priority before bulking up the two ocean-going fleets.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:16 pm

    I cant really imagine how do they intend to put 8cell VLS Club missiles in Buyan class ship?

    I think Amour 950 with VLS would be ideal for BSF althrow same question about VLS could be asked here too.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:07 am

    The USUK doesn't take up very much area horizontally.

    The main criteria would be depth.

    It is of course perfectly possible they might have a mini USUK launcher that is not as deep as the standard launcher that can use the shorter missile loads like the anti submarine rocket launched torpedo missile of the Club family and the land attack and anti ship models of Club, but is not deep enough to handle the larger missiles... ie Yakhont/Oniks/Brahmos.

    If they make it able to handle 6.5 metre long missiles, then it could handle the subsonic land attack and subsonic anti ship model Club and also the surface ship ballistic rocket launched torpedo Club, which is probably enough for a 900 ton vessel.

    It wouldn't be able to handle the almost 9 metre long Brahmos/Oniks/Yakhont, or the Kh-101/-102, or the supersonic antiship Club model.

    A fast missile boat should be able to get by with such a load... 8 Harpoon like missiles with anti ship or land attack capability is plenty of fire power with the added bonus of a potent anti sub capacity if needed.

    To add vertical tube launchers in a Sub is pretty easy... just add a section.

    Vertical launch tubes are ideal on a sub because it gives you the ability to launch any missile you want when you want while keeping your torpedo tubes free for use if needed.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:15 pm

    Ukraine says will let Russia modernize Black Sea Fleet

    Ukraine will allow Russia to modernize its Black Sea Fleet, Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhaylo Yezhel said on Tuesday.



    Talks on the details of the deal are ongoing.



    Under the current lease on the Russian Black Sea Fleet's base in Crimea's Sevastopol signed in 1997, Russia cannot increase the number of combat ships or modernize its weaponry at the base.



    However, Ukraine agreed in 2010 to extend the lease until 2042 while most of the warships in service with the Black Sea Fleet are outdated.



    “The average service life of a warship is 25-30 years. It is only natural that the [current] ships will be replaced, and that is the subject of negotiations,” Yezhel said.



    During his visit to Ukraine on October 19, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said two new agreements on Russia's Black Sea Fleet were being discussed and the replacement of armament and hardware is one of the main stumbling blocs at the talks.



    The fleet is expected to receive a total of 15 new frigates and diesel-electric submarines by 2020 within the limits of the 1997 agreement.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/world/20111025/168100444.html

    medo
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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  medo on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:43 pm

    How is going building of new naval base in Novorossiysk? They could base new ships in Novorossiysk instead in Sevastopol to not to have problems with Ukraine.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:47 pm

    medo wrote:How is going building of new naval base in Novorossiysk? They could base new ships in Novorossiysk instead in Sevastopol to not to have problems with Ukraine.

    There will be no problems with Ukraine (for the Black Sea Fleet) for the foreseable future. The Sevastopol base agreement has been extended by a few decades. Any future Ukraine government will have to live with it.

    For the Russians, Sevastopol is not just a port base. It's geopolitical value is far beyond that. They must and will stay there one way or the other.

    Novorossysk will be a secondary base. The headquarters will remain in Sevastopol no matter what.

    GarryB
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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:18 am

    They have a lot of history at Sev, and they have invested a lot of time and money and resources, so while it makes sense to keep an alternative open it also makes sense to keep using the best choice.

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    Russia's Black Sea Fleet move could move its base

    Post  Ogannisyan8887 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:04 am

    The Russian Federation Navy is expected to relocate its Black Sea Fleet from the Crimean port of Sevastopol in Ukraine to a new naval base at Novorossiysk, Russia, from 2020: eight years later than originally planned.

    The delay could leave the fleet without a home for three years because Russia's lease on the facilities in Sevastopol is due to expire in 2017 and the Ukrainian government appears unwilling to extend the agreement.

    Russian media reported last year that the Novorossiysk base would become operational in 2012, but the revised date of 2020 was confirmed by Nikolay Abroskin, head of Russia's Federal Agency for Special Construction, on 14 July.

    http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?ID=1065927856

    GarryB
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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:50 am

    Good old Janes... the Black Sea Fleets basing agreement has been extended to something like 2043 or something, so the movement of the Black Sea Fleet might be further delayed beyond 2020.

    runaway
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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  runaway on Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:Good old Janes... the Black Sea Fleets basing agreement has been extended to something like 2043 or something, so the movement of the Black Sea Fleet might be further delayed beyond 2020.

    Yes, and its unlikely they will leave even then.
    Sevastopol was stolen by Ukraine, and one day the Russians will take it back.

    Novosiirisk will be a second line base, or a reserve should war breake out on Krim.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:12 am

    Well I would like to see it returned to Russian ownership, but would rather see it given back.

    Taken back suggests bloodshed.

    Perhaps a referendum in the Crimea, there are plenty of people there who consider themselves Russian.

    Without the use of violence I am sure half of the Ukraine would like to become part of the Russian Federation again.

    Lets face it however... right now the Russian Navy is not in a good state, but as it recovers it is going to have lots of "foreign" bases.

    I am sure in 10-15 years the Russian Navy might like to return to Vietnam and Cuba, and expand its base in Syria.

    Right now such things will be once only visits, but in 10-15 years time when the Russian Navy is operating around the world these bases will become valuable places to stop and replenish resources and make repairs etc... saving a voyage all the way back to a Russian port.

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    Re: Future of the Black Sea Fleet

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:54 am


    Russian Navy to receive 10 diesel submarines by 2020

    © RIA Novosti. Alexey Danichev
    01:28 22/11/2011
    MOSCOW, November 22 (RIA Novosti)
    Tags: submarines, Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard, Russia

    The Russian Navy is planning to receive up to 10 diesel-electric submarines by 2020, a Navy spokesman said.

    “The Russian Navy expects to receive 8-10 diesel submarines by 2020,” the official said on Monday.

    The new submarines will strengthen primarily Russia’s Baltic and Back Sea fleets, he added.

    Russia’s Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard on Monday launched the construction of a Project 636.3 modernized Kilo-class submarine.

    The Project 636 vessels, crewed by 52 submariners, have an underwater speed of 20 knots, a cruising range of 400 miles with the ability to patrol for 45 days. They are armed with 18 torpedoes and eight surface-to-air missiles.

    The spokesman said the improved Kilo class submarines will feature advanced “stealth” technology, extended combat range and ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets.

    © RIA Novosti.





    The Russian Navy currently has about 20 diesel-electric submarines deployed to protect Russia’s territorial waters.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20111122/168916712.html
















    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total

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