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    Railgun ABM battery system?

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    KomissarBojanchev
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    Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:51 am

    Strangely very little has been discussed about another(and probably more viable) application about early railgun technology:a ground based ABM system. It would be more effective because it would have the possibility for the projectile to exceed the speed of the nuclear warhead(around mach 12 or more).
    The projectile would weigh around 15kg and and would travel at around 7-8km/s. Optimal ROF of each railgun would be 4-5rpm which might be possible since the battery would be stationary and size of the powersource would be thus unlimited.

    What do you think? Will missiles be still the pnly effective means of ABM or will railgun technology kick in?

    Firebird
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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  Firebird on Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:22 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Strangely very little has been discussed about another(and probably more viable) application about early railgun technology:a ground based ABM system. It would be more effective because it would have the possibility for the projectile to exceed the speed of the nuclear warhead(around mach 12 or more).
    The projectile would weigh around 15kg and and would travel at around 7-8km/s. Optimal ROF of each railgun would be 4-5rpm which might be possible since the battery would be stationary and size of the powersource would be thus unlimited.

    What do you think? Will missiles be still the pnly effective means of ABM or will railgun technology kick in?
    I was thinking about rail guns and lasers vs ABM missiles like S-500.

    Ofcourse S-400 and 500 are fantastic technologies, and will have many uses. But there is a difficulty.
    If you're firing against n enemy missile, thats an immense speed differential. Without atmospheric differnces, it could be a little like shooting a bullet with a bullet.

    Hitting an ABM sideways to its trajectory is hard. And hitting it playing "catch up" from behind is hard too.

    Put simply, speed has its uses, but I wonder if a "swarm" attack may be better in some ways.
    The idea that projectiles could "hang" in space ahead of an attacking ballisitc missile. Or a swarm that could block the predicted path of a missile.

    Another way, is an ABM missile to get close to the attacking missile. Then it somehow releases a "swarm" when within x distance of the attacking missile.

    Ofcourse this is tremendously complex technology. But then so is constantly having to improve a single ABM shot approach.

    FOrtunately, the railgun could fire many many projectiles at once. I'm sure that has cost benefits, once you have set up an effective system. Longterm, I'm sure lasers will be an option. But before then, I'm guessing railguns will be helpful.

    My question is, how will this affect the Mutually Assured Destruction principle?

    collegeboy16
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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:42 pm

    Railguns are nice, esp. if you put them up on satellites on space.
    Since there is no atmosphere, you can use very light projectiles(Al foil perhaps)
    accelerated to mind bending speeds to pick off ballistic missiles.
    The warheads have thick and dense shielding that is very dependent
    on their shape, if you manage to hit one and poke a nice hole
    (hypervelocity impacts produce larger diameter craters than deeper penetration)
    , then the trip back to Earth would finish the job.

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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  Firebird on Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:44 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:Railguns are nice, esp. if you put them up on satellites on space.
    Since there is no atmosphere, you can use very light projectiles(Al foil perhaps)
    accelerated to mind bending speeds to pick off ballistic missiles.
    The warheads have thick and dense shielding that is very dependent
    on their shape, if you manage to hit one and poke a nice hole
    (hypervelocity impacts produce larger diameter craters than deeper penetration)
    , then the trip back to Earth would finish the job.
    Ofcourse the strange thing is, treaties allow you to blow up the whole world if you send something from Earth going VIA space.

    But if it starts its journey IN space, then the treaties are breached.

    I would how this might change in the future...?

    Perhaps railguns will be a very effective deterrent. BUT they could also become a potent weapon of attack in their own right.. Either way, I think lasers and EM-weapons are the longterm future..
    Even today, I'm sure Russia and America have powerful weapons in this sector.

    Infact, some argue that it was EM pulse weapons that were used in Iraq (basically causing psychological trauma to Iraqis and damaging electronics), when the coventional arms were taking a time. This was reported on iraq-war.ru, as I remember.

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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:48 am

    Interception is complicated if the target has immense speed, but if you think about the game of cricket the batter might not need to move his bat very far if at all when batting even against a fast bowler because the bat is already in front of the wickets.

    If the enemy has accurate missiles and you know what he is targeting then intercepting incoming missiles is not super difficult.

    The key difference however is that as the targets come in they can change trajectory as they hit the atmosphere or when correcting their aim to ensure they get close as possible to their targets.

    Once fired a projectile fired from an EM gun pretty much follows a ballistic path up and then down with no control at all... one change in trajectory and your projectile will miss.

    Part of the problem is that the incoming threats are travelling at enormous speed... when something is moving at 7km per second then it is covering 7,000m every second... if you are half a second out then you miss by more than three and a half kilometres...even if you were going to get a perfect hit.

    In this context an interceptor that can adapt its trajectory after launch and still have a good chance of a kill after several changes in trajectory needs a missile or guided projectile.


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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:56 pm

    Yeah but what are the real chances of a ballistic missile manuevering when its travelling at 7 km/sec, or anywhere near that speed?

    Not even the Iskander has such a capability; AFAIK it manuevers only in the terminal stage when it slows down a good deal.

    As for the latest manueverable Russian ICBM classes; I'd imagine that it'd be similar.

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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:44 am

    The point is that even the slightest deviation from a long way up means a very large change in impact point which also means new trajectory so all those shots fired at the original trajectory are now going to miss.

    Not even the Iskander has such a capability; AFAIK it manuevers only in the terminal stage when it slows down a good deal.

    As for the latest manueverable Russian ICBM classes; I'd imagine that it'd be similar.
    A small bump as it starts hurling through the atmosphere can shift its trajectory hundreds of metres in a few seconds flight time.

    For projectiles that cannot manouver after they are fired even if it slows down faster than expected as it travels through the atmosphere and you will still miss and wont have time for the extra shots that need to be fired can be fired to compensate.


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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:46 am

    They are always shifting the 300 ton plus ISS to avoid collisions with small objects in orbit and it is travelling at orbital speed too.

    A small shift early enough can result in a guaranteed collision becoming a miss by hundreds or thousands of kilometres.


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    Militarov
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    Re: Railgun ABM battery system?

    Post  Militarov on Mon May 09, 2016 1:08 am




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