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    How PAK-FA would counter F-22 in future aerial warfare

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    victor1985
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    Re: How PAK-FA would counter F-22 in future aerial warfare

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:36 pm

    yesssssss i've got it
    it is possible
    look to this copy paste from wikipedia


    Reciprocity[edit]

    It is a fundamental property of antennas that the electrical characteristics of an antenna described in the next section, such as gain, radiation pattern, impedance, bandwidth, resonant frequency and polarization, are the same whether the antenna is transmitting or receiving.[13][14] For example, the "receiving pattern" (sensitivity as a function of direction) of an antenna when used for reception is identical to the radiation pattern of the antenna when it is driven and functions as a radiator. This is a consequence of the reciprocity theorem of electromagnetics.[14] Therefore, in discussions of antenna properties no distinction is usually made between receiving and transmitting terminology, and the antenna can be viewed as either transmitting or receiving, whichever is more convenient.

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    Re: How PAK-FA would counter F-22 in future aerial warfare

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:33 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:There was an interesting concept surfaced in 1970's RAND Study. called as "Stellar radar" It's basically a Bi-static radar but using stars and sun as its non-cooperative emitters.

    Nonetheless the theoritical groundwork of it (The paper also include mathematical equation for predicting performance) Showed that it might not be promising. Nonetheless it is one hell of interesting concept.

    I was thinking something like Russia using ground based EW systems to target hostile F-22, F 35 etc over Russian airspace if they are involved in a dogfight with Russian Su 30 or Su 35s.

    But then I suspect that ground based EW systems will also affect the Su 30s and Su 35s adversely.

    Not if the planes are not close to each other..
    The EW system russia have shown.. have parabolic antenas , like a Dish satellite cable antenna.
    That shows they can guide the electronic attack to any specific zone.. So as long the russian planes are not withing visual distance of the enemy planes ie.. 5km to 10km,, they will not be aimed with the gun.

    The nice thing of radio eletromagnetic attacks is that is not affected like lazers are on bad weather. go to the EW thread ,and see what i posted.. If Russia Electronic warfare is half as good as they claim.. it will be a real game changer.. it should be able to turn off combat planes..
    and damage its avionics and electric circuits.. this will be catastrophic ,no even the ejection sit will work.. knowing how Americans likes to use electronics in all. Or at the very least.. Russia
    electronic warfare should be able to interrupt F-22 radars and make all their missiles to fail.

    US airforce have counter electronics too.. so if both are good .. then pretty much modern warfare will be death.. none of the modern missiles will hit any target.. and you will need
    old school anti air artillery or planes close combat gun.. to do the job ,that missiles cant do.

    It is possible that in the future.. as science progress ,stand off ,long range warfare will be death and next to useless and armies will be forced to fight with Shields and swords and physical combat again.. lol1

    For example gun powder or tnt or any chemical could be neutralized before it explode .
    by remotely changing from distance its internal chemical composition of the explosive..
    Any nation who develop this will be a hundreds year ahead of the any competition.. nothing
    will explode again.. This however should be dangerous too for humans if used against them.

    Putin himself told they were experimenting with Bombs that can damage diesel and fuel
    in armor..without killing anyone or damaging any infrastructure. .. so essentially neutralize any convoy of tanks before it reach the warzone ,forcing any army to go on foot.. or wait for fuel .. Cool

    What we have seen until now from NATO ..is just primitive warfare in comparison to how advanced is science,physics , and mathematics today. For example everyone talks about electronics how USA have the world best electronics.. etc.. But a Scientist i had a conversation ,told me electronics are yesterday technology and it will be obsolete in near future. ,and that Science is at least 200 years head of the technology we see today. What will replace electronics is photonics circuits.

    Science is even exploring things like time traveling or parallel universes.. phenomenons they
    see happening in the atoms world. What happens is that Theory Science always comes first.. and it takes a hundred of years at least to see its implementation of science into the physical world .what people call "modern technology" in reality is something really old in science.

    Today for example.. computer processors use silicon ,semiconductors to create modern computers.. But already science have proven is possible to operate and control atoms and electrons to store computer information. They believe when such quantum computers developed..the jump will be computers a million times faster ,than the ones we have today..
    that will have the size of a sheet of paper. Really cool stuff . Cool

    So i suspect..we are on the verge of a new Era of advanced military warfare ,that will totally
    revolutionize the way wars are done..and its seems Russia is way ahead in this.. with their EW weapons.

    GarryB
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    Re: How PAK-FA would counter F-22 in future aerial warfare

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:03 pm

    first of all i've been talking about a passive radar who doesnt send anything just receive. then yes ofcourse i know what is the shape of f22 and why is used for. third you could have a idea how far is it by having two (at least) radars close on each other and triangulate the signal ofcourse the signal bouncing from aicraft is the same in terms of frecvency with many waves in the air but has another angle at which is reflected by plane and as far as i understanded every wave that doesnt hit a antenna at 90 angle produce a phase shift let me search on this on internet

    Yes, Victor, I know you are talking about passive... that is the problem.

    If you were using radar pulses... ie active radar, then you could control when they were emitted and embed coded signals into the emission, so you can send ten powerful pulses with ten different codes so that when your passive sensors scattered all over the place receive return signals they can decode them and then based on when the signal was transmitted and when it was received you could work out the origin and distance to the targets.

    Because you are using noise signals that could come from anywhere at any time receiving those signals is meaningless because you don't know when they were transmitted or from what angle so the time you receive them and the angle they arrive from tells you nothing about the location of the target except a single bearing... the real problem being you can't tell a signal that has bounced off a stealth fighter from one that has bounced off the ground or come directly from space... so like I said before all you have is noise.



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    A 5th-generation battle for the sky. Who would take the crown?

    Post  zenmonk on Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:49 pm

    Everything about the PAK-FA suggests that it is similar in concept to the Raptor—being optimized as a fast, high flying and stealthy air superiority fighter. One good example is stealth. The T-50’s design places far less emphasis on all-aspect low observables. Instead, it focuses on frontal aspect stealth—thus it has a so-called “Pac-Man” signature where as the F-22’s signature looks more like a spider if one were to look at it from a God’s eye view. Stealth is where the F-22 holds a huge advantage over the Russian jet.

    In terms of sheer kinematics, the T-50 and the F-22 are probably comparable—especially once the PAK-FA receives new engines. The Russian jet’s current Izdeliye 117 engines are decent, but ultimately the plane will need to reequipped with the developmental Izdeliye 30 motors to fully exploit the capabilities of its airframe.

    In terms of avionics, the Raptor probably has the edge in terms of sensor fusion and pilot-vehicle interface. The Russian don’t have the best track record for developing user-friendly cockpits—one look at the cockpit of a MiG-29 tells the story. But they are getting better. Overall sensor performance might be comparable, Russians make decent radars and they have excellent electronic warfare systems.

    What are chances of F 22 against Pak Fa? And what are the Chances of F 22 against Pak Fa SU 35S?

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    Re: How PAK-FA would counter F-22 in future aerial warfare

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:52 pm

    Friend we have threads for this in Russian Air Force section, Dont make double threads

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2661-how-pak-fa-would-counter-f-22-in-future-aerial-warfare


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    Re: How PAK-FA would counter F-22 in future aerial warfare

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:29 am

    Very simply the F-22 is supposed to be the only stealth fighter in the air and is designed to allow the USAF to cope with thousands of 3rd and 4th gen fighters like MiG-23s and MiG-29s at stand off distances.

    The F-22 flys high and fast so it can attack its 6 targets and then fly home and rearm and refuel.

    the obvious problem is that its main armament is the AMRAAM missile which wont lock on to a stealth target at anything like BVR range so it becomes a WVR fight where stealth is not longer much use and manouver capability will win because he who shoots with cannons will kill. (He who shoots with WVR AAMs will find DIRCMS a problem for kills).

    at the end of the day the F-22 is a long range sniper designed to fight from an unseen distance from the high ground.

    The PAK FA has long range sensors that will allow targets like F-22 snipers to be detected at reasonable ranges and its ability to get close to an F-22 means it will be a knife fight... the sort of fight a PAK FA will likely win due to its better flight characteristics... not to mention eventually better numbers and range of sensors... and supporting IAD.


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