Chinese UAVs

The development of air to air combat UCAV aircraft will be a rather difficult thing to do. Most successful aircraft in air to air combat are those that have the situational awareness to a level that they know where their target is and where they are and where their friends are and the target of their attentions do not know they exist.
Most UAVs however fly most of their time on what equates to an autopilot, though they can be manually flown or commanded to orbit an area if the need arises most of the time they fly level and straight and their situation awareness comes from 3-4 cameras mounted on the craft that will generally include one or two forward facing cameras for flight and 2-3 cameras mounted in a swivel mounting to allow a wide range of visibility below the aircraft, usually a day camera and a night capable camera and possibly another camera with very high zoom capability. The problem is that any aircraft sneaking up behind could probably get very close before it is noticed and it is rather unlikely that a decent ESM suite with RHAW and other capabilities will be wasted on an expendable aircraft.
It is not an accident that the Serbs found that they could fly beside a UAV with a helicopter and shoot it down with a machine gun from the cabin door.

UCAVs will have a long way to go before they become efficient air to air combat pilots.

There is no problem with fitting more than one warhead to a cruise missile.

In fact the AS-18 KAZOO is supposed to be able to fly down a flight line and deploy cluster munitions at set intervals to hit a line of targets. For instance a line of aircraft parked near a runway are difficult to take out with just one warhead, but a Kh-59 can be programmed to fly down the flight line and deploy cluster munitions a few at a time as it flys down the line of aircraft doing damage to all the aircraft. It can do the same with other targets like a line of vehicles on a road with guided anti armour sub munitions.


In fact in the 50s or 60s there was an American nuclear powered cruise missile that flew at low level at mach 3 that carried about 24 nuclear warheads that were fired up when the missile was over the target an by the time the warhead fell to earth and detonated the missile was beyond the blast radius and it flew to the next target area.

My quibble is not with UCAVs, I think they are a good idea.
I just think that in the role of air to air combat they are not ready to perform as well as a fighter jet yet.
As an aircraft that delivers a precision strike like an F-16 with laser guided bombs flying at medium height I think a UCAV could do an even better job than an F-16 or a cruise missile. But using a UCAV to shoot down enemy aircraft I don't think that is such a good idea because the cost of all the bits and pieces needed to make them effective, like an AESA radar, a modern long range AAM and dogfight AAMs, plus the RHAWs and ESM suite needed to make it effective will make it so expensive it is not expendable any more. And if it is not expendable any more then it is not a good idea for a UCAV. If it doesn't have the radar and missiles and RHAW etc etc then it will be worse than a single Arab Mig-21 going up against the Israeli air force because of the lack of situational awareness for the UCAV and the coordination and SA of the opposition.

Actually the current model of a Predator with two Hellfire missiles is the expensive option.

Fitting two standard 20 shot 80mm rocket pods and fitting those rockets with Ugroza guidance kits you could target up to 40 targets with much cheaper missiles that are just as accurate as the larger and more expensive Hellfire class missiles. If the 80mm rockets' 4.5kg HE warheads are not heavy enough then there are other options.
For harder targets then S-13 122mm rocket pods carry 5 rockets each with warheads up to 33kgs, and the S-25 single rocket pod with 266mm body diameter with the warhead sticking out the end like an RPG-7 with a warhead of 150kg should do the trick.

If the ground target is a convoy of light trucks then the 80mm rocket will do fine.

AFAIK the 57mm rockets of the S-5 system are no longer used because of their light warhead weight, but S-8 (80mm) S-13 (122mm) S-24 (240mm)and S-25 (266mm) unguided rockets can be fitted with the Ugroza guidance package to allow these weapons to be used to ballistic range with the accuracy to hit point targets at a fraction of the cost of an ATGM.

It is mentioned on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-8_rocket

Note the S-5 is no longer used by the Russian AF as far as I know because although it can be carried in large volumes of up to 32 rockets per pod the rockets themselves have rather small warheads. The warheads are about 800 grammes and the HE content is less than half a kilogramme so in effect they are the equivelent of 1 or two hand grenades per rocket which barely justifies their cost with body armour and the proliferation of light armoured vehicles the 57mm S-5 is pretty much gone from the rocket inventory.

Just because they are going to use Ugroza doesn't mean all their rockets will have the guidance package applied. For dispersed targets like unarmoured troops in the open the unguided dumb model rocket gives a good spread of explosive over an area rapidly. Obviously the Illumination model rockets wont need guidance and nor will the chaff and flare equipped rockets either. The decoy rocket for the 122mm rocket pod will not need an Ugroza guidance package either.
The High explosive and the Anti Armour rockets will benefit greatly from guidance and being able to loft them at the target for maximum standoff range will make the launch platform much safer.

The book I got most of my information about the system lists the Ugroza package with the ATGMs and it has a drawing showing an Su-27 with its nose up and banking away with 4 flight paths leading away from it. The initial portion of the flight path is smooth while the terminal phase has zig zags to show the homing phase and it shows a laser designator on the ground in radio contact with the aircraft.
The targets depicted are some sort of armoured bunker, an M1 Abrams tank sowing frontal and top attack flight profiles and an Apache helicopter.

As I mentioned the penetration and fragmentation performance is greatly dependant on which rocket model is used. Obviously a 4kg HEAT from an 80mm rocket against an Abrams would require a top attack diving profile to have a good chance of disabling the target, whereas the 125kg HEAT warhead from an S-24 240mm calibre rocket should be quite effective. Without guidance with a HE Frag warhead against area targets the latters effective range was only about 2-3km, but with terminal guidance and a lofted trajectory it could hit point targets at three times that distance and this at a fraction of the cost of a much more expensive ATGM.
It is a great idea as long as it remains relatively cheap.

BTW the range figures for Ugroza are for low level launch by helos and CAS like the Su-25. From a big high altitude UCAV you could fit it with 8-10 rocket pods of different types and have a much much smaller UAV flying lower designating targets for it. The smaller target designation UAVs could be made very cheap and disposable as for most uses it will be the only thing those on the ground will see or hear or have a chance of hitting.

I agree.

It will also be some time for Russia to get such capability too, but many of the required technologies can be introduced now and will be of benefit now.

In fact the small disposable UAVs carried by the Ka-52 in a box mounted underwing would be ideal for the purpose. The large UCAV could carry a dozen internally and when it spots a target or several targets worth attacking and there are no other platforms able to mark the target with a laser it could release a disposable UAV to fly down and lase the target. Of course new lasers like the one fitted to the Mig-35 can lase targets 20km+ away so fitting that to the high altitude UCAV could mean that it could lase its own targets.
Added to that it could use the laser for precise location of the target and using its own position calculate the position of the target and put those coordinates into a small satellite guided bomb... perhaps an FAB-50 or so for small point targets.
The FAB-50 is a compact stubby bomb that could be carried internally in large numbers.
With GLONASS guidance it would be accurate enough to be effective yet small enough to not kill everything in the area.

China Unveils Next-Generation Wing Loong II Drone

Chinese defense contractor Chengdu Aircraft Corporation unveiled its second-generation Wing Loong II unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) at the biennial Beijing Air Show earlier this month.

The platform resembles the MQ-9 Reaper high-altitude long-endurance UCAV, which is manufactured by American firm General Atomics primarily for the US Air Force, IHS Jane's 360 reported.

Photographs published earlier this year on Chinese websites suggest that flight-testing of the Wing Loong has already begun.

While the UCAV is likely to be exported under the name Wing Loong II, the drone can be expected to enter the People's Liberation Army Air Force alongside the smaller Chengdu GJ-1/Wing Loong.

Like the MQ-9 Reaper, the Wing Loong is powered by a single pusher turboprop engine; places its satellite communication system and primary optical system in the nose; and employs large V-stabilizers with a smaller vertical stabilizer below the empennage, IHS Jane's reported.

While the UCAVs are nearly identical in size, their performance differs – most likely due to their respective engines.

The MQ-9 has a maximum speed of 300 miles per hour and can reach a max altitude of 50,000 feet. The Wing Loong II has a maximum speed of 230 miles per hour and can reach an altitude of 30,000 feet.

They also differ greatly in their external payload. The MQ-9 can carry 3,085 pounds, while the Wing Loong II can carry 1,060 pounds.

A brochure image shows the Wing Loong II carrying 12 air-to-surface missiles. Multiple Chinese companies have developed families of UCAV weapons, including precision-guided missiles, bombs and air-to-air missiles, IHS Jane's reported.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150918/1027216738.html#ixzz3m8RTqHzP

Chinese UAVs in Army-2016 forum

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2125487.html

I think a good asymmetric response to expensive manned fighter aircraft could be ROV-UCAV . For countries on limited budget . For dog fighting point defense . The trick is to arrange for unjammable directional laser signal from ground . The advantages are cost . Ability to be low stressed built from composites . Perform extreme g moves . I think it to worth thinking about . The laser transceiver fixes onto point on ground and rotates to maintain Los contact . Image displayed for pilot on ground similar to latest standard commercial equipment . And no pilot death .

laser focus world. com

The first flight of the new Chinese UAV Pterodactyl II







http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2461629.html

One EMP round in their midst and they all take a nap...

The Gongji-1 UAV (GJ-1) drone of the People's Liberation Army of China









http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2624650.html