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    Future russian aircraft carriers.

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    GarryB
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:22 am

    ]Here we talk of a ship offering unique capabilities ,not shared in the same form by different kind of ships, for force protection against enemies within a certain threshold of strength and sophistication ,which are however almost totally uncapable to defend itself from high end menaces (from that derive the necessity to "enslave" at the exclusive task of theirs defense the operations of 6-7 other surface and subsurface units !!!) and with a price tag equal to an entire fleet.

    You keep talking about future Russian carriers like they will be analogs of US carriers...

    Present evidence is to the contrary... they are talking about 160 SAM missiles for Mistrals plus UKSK launchers for anti sub and anti ship and land attack capacity.

    I rather suspect their carriers... in addition to the 80 odd aircraft they want to deploy, will also have a broad range of SAMs and missile launcher bins.

    The plan for the carriers include its ability to take part in subsurface, sea surface, land, air, and space... this suggests to me that they will be defended by decent CIWS, plus layers of SAMs too.


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    Post  Sunehvm on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:12 am

    Dont you just hate how the navy isnt that contuearproductive anymore?



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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:21 am

    Batch production of prospect aircraft carriers will start in Russia after 2021, and construction of fifth-generation strategic nuclear-powered subs will begin after 2030, said Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief ADM Viktor Chirkov.

    "In the period of 2021–2030, combat capability of general-purpose naval force should be enhanced by batch production of prospective aircraft carriers, fourth-generation nuclear-powered attack submarines, multipurpose seagoing and littoral-zone warships", reports RIA Novosti citing Viktor Chirkov.

    Presently, Russian Navy operates only one aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov. Chirkov pointed out that mass production of fifth-generation strategic subs would begin after 2030.

    "In 2021-2030, along with keeping on scheduled replacement of overaged ballistic missiles submarines with new fourth-generation ones, it is necessary to kick off works on prospective fifth-generation strategic submarines, and to launch their mass production after 2030", Chirkov said.

    As for him, Russian Navy now operates third-generation nuclear-powered subs that will be replaced with Borei- and Yasen-class fourth-generation submarines by 2020.

    At the same time, Chirkov pointed out that Russian Navy command was planning to launch batch construction of unmanned submarines and sea robots after 2020.

    "After 2020, we anticipate a shift to large-scale production of stand-alone unmanned submarines and sea-based robot systems, development of special sea bottom equipment deployed from various underwater platforms", he said.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Hachimoto on Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:04 pm



    Russia to Open Carrier Pilot Training Site by Fall

    MOSCOW, March 15 (RIA Novosti) - A new Russian carrier-deck pilot training site will be ready for operation by fall, the Federal Agency for Special Construction Work confirmed on Friday, replacing a Soviet-era base in Ukraine which Kiev has said it may lease to other countries.

    The construction work there is effectively complete. I believe aircraft will start flying there in August or September,” Grigory Naginsky, head of the Federal Agency for Special Construction Work (Spetsstroi) said.

    Former Russian Navy chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky had previously said the training facility in the city of Yeisk, on Russia's Black Sea coast, should be complete by 2020.

    Earlier in March, Ukrainian First Deputy Defense Minister Oleksandr Oleinik said Ukraine, which does not operate fixed-wing shipborne naval aircraft, was considering leasing out its Nitka training site in Crimea to other countries.

    Under a 1997 bilateral agreement, Russia occasionally uses Ukraine's Nitka Naval Pilot Training Center, the only land-based training facility for its carrier-based fixed-wing pilots. At present, the site is only used by Russia on a short-term basis to train Northern Fleet carrier pilots, who fly Su-33 naval fighter jets and Su-25UTG conversion trainers for Russia's sole carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov.

    The Nitka Center was built in the Soviet era for pilots to practice taking-off and landing from aircraft carrier decks. After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the facility remained under Ukraine’s control.
    The center provides facilities such as a launch pad, a catapult launch device and arrester wires, a glide-path localizer, a marker beacon, and an optical landing system.

    The Russian Defense Ministry has previously asked the Ukrainian Defense Ministry to lease the site to Russia. Ukraine’s then-Defense Minister Mykhailo Yezhel supported Russia’s request. However, a firm deal for the Russia lease option was not clinched, Oleinik said earlier this month, so the Ukrainian Defense Ministry was looking at other options for using it.
    "India and China are the obvious potential candidates for this," Douglas Barrie, air warfare analyst at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, said earlier this month.
    India is awaiting delivery of a refurbished Russian aircraft carrier which will operate Russian MiG-29K fighter jets. China only has one carrier, from which naval aircraft were seen operating for the first time last year, and has little experience of fixed-wing naval operations. Most other aircraft carrier operators either use short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft whose crews would not need a facility like Nitka, or have their own such facilities, or use only ships for training.

    Under the original agreement, Russia traded use of the Nitka facilities for spare parts for Sukhoi-family naval fighter jets, which were the only type allowed to operate at the center. Russia and Ukraine were Nitka's only users.
    In August, Russia’s then-Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said Russia and Ukraine had signed a protocol on amendments to that agreement, setting out payment for using the site, unrestricted use of a range of naval aircraft for training and testing, and the possibility of sharing the center with third parties.

    The Russian Defense Ministry said last year it was paying about $700,000 annually to rent Nitka and was willing to upgrade the facility. Russia, which has only one aircraft carrier - the Admiral Kuznetsov - is drawing up plans for a new nuclear-powered aircraft carrier for its Navy by 2018.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:47 am

    I would guess it would be a chance to make the massive carrier simulator more modular, so they should be able to put in the electronics and communications on the upgraded Kuznetsov on the new base.

    Would be interesting to look at satellite photos of the new site to see if it is fitted with or for catapults...


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:09 am

    The new carrier will cost the Russian budget of 400 billion rubles

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    Future russian aircraft carriers

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 pm

    George1 wrote:The new carrier will cost the Russian budget of 400 billion rubles

    Do it russia
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    Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:14 pm

    On 3 November 2011 the Russian newspaper Izvestiya reported the naval building plan now included (first) the construction of a new shipyard capable of building large hull ships, after which Moscow will build two nuclear-powered aircraft carriers by 2027. The spokesperson said one carrier would be assigned to the Russian Navy's Northern Fleet at Murmansk, and the second would be stationed with the Pacific Fleet at Vladivostok.

    Can Anyone tell me if they already started building these shipyards or any progress has been made at all?
    Or do you know the plans have changed or anything about the future Aircraft Carriers?

    Please tell me, greetings from the Netherlands.
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:46 am

    Hi Flyingdutchman,

    Welcome to the forum Very Happy 

    We have a rule here that the first post should be an introduction in the "Members rules and introductions" section.
    Too late now, you don't have to delete your first posts but I would appreciate it if you take the time to look in the "Members Rules and Introductions" section and start a new thread to introduce yourself.

    While you are there there are a couple of rules threads you might like to look through, and of course feel free to look at the introduction posts by other members so you have an idea of who you are talking to and to see what is expected in your intro thread.

    Regarding your question however perhaps you mean this:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t861-new-shipyard-being-built-in-far-east-russia

    Of course that was 2010, so this is more recent:

    http://www.crewing.biz.ua/Article65739.html



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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:53 am

    BTW I rather suspect their experience of giving the Kuznetsov a serious upgrade will allow them to have a better idea of what their options are.

    They will need a very powerful but compact and safe naval nuclear reactor for the upgrade of the Kuz and the Kirovs hopefully that can also be adopted on their new build larger vessels.

    Experience with new weapons and radar systems should also benefit plans for new carriers in the future.

    I remember planned carriers from the 1970s that showed models with naval Mig-23s on their decks but by the time they got them into service it was Mig-29s and Su-27s(33) that were eventually deployed.
    I suspect the new carriers and even the K might have a new variant of the PAK FA operating from its deck which will be quite interesting.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:50 am

    Been wanting to ask this for a while, but what are the export potential for the Kuznetsov class carrier to costumer other than China and India.Neutral 
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:51 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:Been wanting to ask this for a while, but what are the export potential for the Kuznetsov class carrier to costumer other than China and India.Neutral 

    Zero.

    India did not buy a Kuznetsov, and China bought a hulk from Ukraine.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TheRealist on Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:20 am

    I have been hearing a lot of news that the new shipyards in St. Petersburg will not go through and that it is not economical, yet I was able to stumble upon this article.

    New “super shipyard” to be built in St Petersburg
    http://www.bairdmaritime.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14207:new-super-shipyard-to-be-built-in-st-petersburg&catid=69&Itemid=60

    Clarification is appreciated.
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:27 am

    Clarification is appreciated.

    The problem is that a failed or cancelled or delayed program is more newsworthy than one that is just continuing on schedule.

    Been wanting to ask this for a while, but what are the export potential for the Kuznetsov class carrier to costumer other than China and India.

    Would be zero... the Russian Navy likely would not sell it as they have no replacement ready to go.

    Another point is that the infrastructure and shipyards that built the K don't exist any more in the same sense and so carrier building facilities need to be recreated.

    Very simply aircraft carriers are as useful to the Navy as they are to the Army... in fact even more so as the environment the Navy operates in is like a flat open desert that is hard to hide in.

    The advantage of aircraft is an enormous increase in vision and reach with weapons, along with the flexibility of aircraft..

    A case in point could be given regarding the US Navy shooting down of an Iranian Airbus... the AEGIS cruiser involved had state of the art radar and electronics yet could not tell the difference between a climbing Airbus on a marked civilian air route and a descending F-14 on an attack run which they perceived it to be.

    A group of ships with no fixed wing aircraft could not get identification information till the aircraft got too close... so it would be radio warnings on frequencies that civilian airliners are not equipped to receive, and then opening fire with long range SAMs.

    For a group of ships with an aircraft carrier... even a not so amazing/state of the art fighter can be sent out to investigate and would quickly realise that the single attacker was in fact an Airbus rather than an F-14 on a suicide mission.

    I think it would be interesting for the Russians to experiment with a new aircraft carrier concept for UCAVs where the ship is 10-20K tons so it is not too big and expensive but has a flat deck to recover aircraft. It could store hundreds of medium and small UCAVs and also have long range cruise missiles for the land attack role. Most of the UCAVs could be highly manouverable fighter UCAVs equipped with AAMs of a range of types in an airframe able to pull 20-30g to enable it to out turn any manned aircraft.


    ...vertical launch with horizontal recovery so large numbers can be launched rapidly when needed and recovered as appropriate.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:40 am

    GarryB wrote:BTW I rather suspect their experience of giving the Kuznetsov a serious upgrade will allow them to have a better idea of what their options are.

    They will need a very powerful but compact and safe naval nuclear reactor for the upgrade of the Kuz and the Kirovs hopefully that can also be adopted on their new build larger vessels.

    Experience with new weapons and radar systems should also benefit plans for new carriers in the future.

    I remember planned carriers from the 1970s that showed models with naval Mig-23s on their decks but by the time they got them into service it was Mig-29s and Su-27s(33) that were eventually deployed.
    I suspect the new carriers and even the K might have a new variant of the PAK FA operating from its deck which will be quite interesting.

    Thank you for all the info:D 

    I will introduce myself on the forum right now.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TheRealist on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:56 am

    So is it safe to say that those new shipyards that USC was planning in St. Petersburg are now canceled and more effort is being placed on the Zvezda-DSME and Vostok-Raffles shipyards in the Far East?
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:16 am

    I **seem** to recall hearing that aircraft carriers will be built at a new shipyard owned by Sevmash (Severodvinsk, over by the White Sea); the shipyard is under construction or soon to be.

    The St. Petersburg and Vladivostok yards may have something to do with it I dunno; but only large enough dry dock for ships of such class will be in Severodvinsk; so that's where the bulk of the construction will take place.

    Makes sense too since they are the ones with the most experience. Rebuilding the Vikramadityu/Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian fleet and preparing to construct a Mistral class in the near future; not to mention their experience with nuclear-propelled vessels such as building atomic subs and the modernisation of the Admiral Nakhimov (Kirov class) due to start there soon.
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:21 am

    flamming_python wrote:I **seem** to recall hearing that aircraft carriers will be built at a new shipyard owned by Sevmash (Severodvinsk, over by the White Sea); the shipyard is under construction or soon to be.

    The St. Petersburg and Vladivostok yards may have something to do with it I dunno; but only large enough dry dock for ships of such class will be in Severodvinsk; so that's where the bulk of the construction will take place.

    Makes sense too since they are the ones with the most experience. Rebuilding the Vikramadityu/Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian fleet and preparing to construct a Mistral class in the near future; not to mention their experience with nuclear-propelled vessels such as building atomic subs and the modernisation of the Admiral Nakhimov (Kirov class) due to start there soon.

    How long will it take to construct a shipyard?
    Cant wait for the carriers to come!
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:52 am


    How long will it take to construct a shipyard?

    The South Korean/Russian program at Vladivostok was signed in about 2010 or so and was expected to start taking ship production orders in 2013 according to the articles I have read... so not actually that long it seems.

    To be honest I really don't think they are ready for two fixed wing carriers... the K will enter docks and start its 5+ year upgrade shortly but it is not just about a carrier or two, it is about support ships to operate with the carrier as well.

    The two Mistral class helicopter carriers will be a good first step and a challenge for the Russian Navy to operate properly and they can formulate operations and work out what they can or cannot do with them over the next few years.

    One offshoot will be likely a range of upgraded naval helos including attack and transport as well as rescue and anti sub models, which will be good for any fixed wing carriers that enter service in the near future.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:05 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    How long will it take to construct a shipyard?

    The South Korean/Russian program at Vladivostok was signed in about 2010 or so and was expected to start taking ship production orders in 2013 according to the articles I have read... so not actually that long it seems.

    To be honest I really don't think they are ready for two fixed wing carriers... the K will enter docks and start its 5+ year upgrade shortly but it is not just about a carrier or two, it is about support ships to operate with the carrier as well.

    The two Mistral class helicopter carriers will be a good first step and a challenge for the Russian Navy to operate properly and they can formulate operations and work out what they can or cannot do with them over the next few years.

    One offshoot will be likely a range of upgraded naval helos including attack and transport as well as rescue and anti sub models, which will be good for any fixed wing carriers that enter service in the near future.

    So the russians need experience first right?
    When can i expect the beginning of a second aircraft carrier?

    The shipyard is already there then right?
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:37 pm

    Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Vice-Adm Alexander Fedotenkov said earlier this month that the Navy will take delivery of 36 new warships and auxiliary vessels in 2013-14 . Though he did not specify how these new ships will be distributed among the country's different fleets, he said , it is safe to assume that a significant portion will be used to bolster the Pacific Fleet.

    The state armament program makes no mention of new aircraft carriers procurement before 2020 .

    http://www.gwu.edu/~ieresgwu/assets/docs/pepm_125.pdf

    Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said last year that R&D work pertaining to a nuclear powered carrier is currently being carried out, but until the results are presented, there can be no talk whatsoever of ordering such a carrier.

    Russia intends to field a heavy air-capable new generation cruiser, which is expected to be put to use by the Russian Navy in 2020.The new aircraft carrier will combine the properties of a command and control vessel with that of a powerful defensive ship.

    The Russian navy has 4 subdivisions - thus, it is expected that Russia will have 4 battle groups headed by aircraft carriers.These groups will consist of the aircraft carrier itself, at least 6 more other battle ships and 1 or 2 submarines.The displacement of the new aircraft carrier will be >50,000 tonnes which is higher than that of the Admiral Kuznetsov .
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:04 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Vice-Adm Alexander Fedotenkov said earlier this month that the Navy will take delivery of 36 new warships and auxiliary vessels in 2013-14 . Though he did not specify how these new ships will be distributed among the country's different fleets, he said , it is safe to assume that a significant portion will be used to bolster the Pacific Fleet.

    The state armament program  makes no mention of new aircraft carriers  procurement before 2020 .



    Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said last year that R&D work pertaining to a nuclear powered carrier is currently being carried out, but until the results are presented, there can be no talk whatsoever of ordering such a carrier.

    Russia intends to field a heavy air-capable new generation cruiser, which is expected to be put to use by the Russian Navy in 2020.The new aircraft carrier will combine the properties of a command and control vessel with that of a powerful defensive ship.

    The Russian navy has 4 subdivisions - thus, it is expected that Russia will have 4 battle groups headed by aircraft carriers.These groups will consist of the aircraft carrier itself, at least 6 more other battle ships and 1 or 2 submarines.The displacement of the new aircraft carrier will be >50,000 tonnes which is higher than that of the Admiral Kuznetsov .

    Thanks man you really helped me with this!
    Its great to read that the russians will be having a great fleet again!
    And especially the aircraft carriers cant wait till hey show the bleuprints to the public.

    When wil the bleuprints be ready?
    Will they show them to the public?
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:35 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:When wil the bleuprints be ready?
    Will they show them to the public?

    I don't know if any timeline has been set for the blueprint to be made available . Since no new aircraft carrier are likely to join the Navy before 2020 , the designers have considerable amount of time . Constructing the carrier should take 6 - 7 years .

    Designing an aircraft carrier is a complex issue . Advances in sub system technologies is one of the critical factors that influences the design of an aircraft carrier. The greatest influence on the design will of course be Launching and recovering aircrafts . Then there is the overall machinery concept for propulsion, aviation launch and recovery equipment, and other ship systems.Chances are the Russian Navy will go for nuclear propulsion.

    And also one cannot loose sight of the cost factor. To reduce costs Navies round the world are considering selected tradeoffs in capabilities and adopting new ways of doing business .
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:55 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I **seem** to recall hearing that aircraft carriers will be built at a new shipyard owned by Sevmash (Severodvinsk, over by the White Sea); the shipyard is under construction or soon to be.

    The St. Petersburg and Vladivostok yards may have something to do with it I dunno; but only large enough dry dock for ships of such class will be in Severodvinsk; so that's where the bulk of the construction will take place.

    Makes sense too since they are the ones with the most experience. Rebuilding the Vikramadityu/Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian fleet and preparing to construct a Mistral class in the near future; not to mention their experience with nuclear-propelled vessels such as building atomic subs and the modernisation of the Admiral Nakhimov (Kirov class) due to start there soon.

    How long will it take to construct a shipyard?
    Cant wait for the carriers to come!

    Unfortunately you are going to have to wait a decade realistically my friend!

    There are some interesting things going on in shipbuilding until then though.
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:19 am

    So the russians need experience first right?

    Well they need a carrier design to be completed first and then scrutinised and checked for potential problems/issues, and then lots of discussion... physical scale modelling and computer modelling and likely a few rival bids as well.

    Like I said before there is no point having a second carrier... even now as there is not enough support infrastructure and vessels to support two carriers at the moment.

    When can i expect the beginning of a second aircraft carrier?

    They likely wont start building a second carrier till 2022 at least, though they might lay two at once by then because by 2030 when they enter service the K might be ready to be put in reserve as a training carrier.

    The shipyard is already there then right?

    I suspect the new shipyard in Vladivostok will start with civilian ship production first... likely a few icebreaking LNG carriers or crude oil carriers able to sail the northern route.

    When wil the bleuprints be ready?
    Will they show them to the public?

    Very unlikely to reveal the real blueprints any time soon... even after they are finished... likely a few photos of bits of carrier like we have with the current frigate program.


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