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    Future russian aircraft carriers.

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    Militarov
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Militarov on Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:49 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Flanky wrote:Sevmash as it seems is not the only place where such ships could be built. Saint Petersburg, Nakhodka and Yantar are to my knowledge working on similar constructions....

    Aren't they building up shipyards right now to build carriers of that size which wont be done tell like past 2020?

    Zvezda shipyard is being expanded atm to be able and deal with 360m long ships with up to 260.000ish DWT in weight.

    Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) is getting new 400m long dry dock.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:41 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Flanky wrote:Sevmash as it seems is not the only place where such ships could be built. Saint Petersburg, Nakhodka and Yantar are to my knowledge working on similar constructions....

    Aren't they building up shipyards right now to build carriers of that size which wont be done tell like past 2020?

    Zvezda shipyard is being expanded atm to be able and deal with 360m long ships with up to 260.000ish DWT in weight.  

    Northern Shipyard (Severnay Verf) is getting new 400m long dry dock.


    Yeah I know those but the time tabled for those shipyards to be done isn't tell like 2023 they said I believe.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:22 am

    I don't know of any Russian plans to build more aircraft carriers within the next 5 years... they don't have enough support vessels, and carrier group vessels to operate the carrier they have now let alone more carriers.

    they wont be building new carriers till at least 2022 or later so they wont be operational till 2030 or so.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:I don't know of any Russian plans to build more aircraft carriers within the next 5 years... they don't have enough support vessels, and carrier group vessels to operate the carrier they have now let alone more carriers.

    they wont be building new carriers till at least 2022 or later so they wont be operational till 2030 or so.

    not for 8 years at least, they don't have the support ships for the fleet and they don't have tons of other stuff they need to use a carrier battle group.

    Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades. It's just not possible for a very long time, I don't wanna know how long it will take them to finish the thing once they start. going by their past projects...going to be awhile.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:28 am

    Russian navy is already fairly large.  Although, a couple years ago there was a big push for Auxillery ships and I dunno what is happening with that.  But there is a push for the navy, it just means that it will take time as you said.  I give it a decade and a half. They could speed it up significantly if they decided to actually get their shipyards all working on same projects rather than ones that overlap in performance from each other.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:43 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I don't know of any Russian plans to build more aircraft carriers within the next 5 years... they don't have enough support vessels, and carrier group vessels to operate the carrier they have now let alone more carriers.

    they wont be building new carriers till at least 2022 or later so they wont be operational till 2030 or so.

    not for 8 years at least, they don't have the support ships for the fleet and they don't have tons of other stuff they need to use a carrier battle group.

    Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades. It's just not possible for a very long time, I don't wanna know how long it will take them to finish the thing once they start. going by their past projects...going to be awhile.

    "Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades"...Zircon wants a word with you. Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:15 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I don't know of any Russian plans to build more aircraft carriers within the next 5 years... they don't have enough support vessels, and carrier group vessels to operate the carrier they have now let alone more carriers.

    they wont be building new carriers till at least 2022 or later so they wont be operational till 2030 or so.

    not for 8 years at least, they don't have the support ships for the fleet and they don't have tons of other stuff they need to use a carrier battle group.

    Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades. It's just not possible for a very long time, I don't wanna know how long it will take them to finish the thing once they start. going by their past projects...going to be awhile.

    "Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades"...Zircon wants a word with you. Rolling Eyes

    I mean in ship numbers, I like the navy has much as the next guy really do. Right now however most of their ships are old only a handful are modern.

    Just facts yeah zircon will be a good missile but that won't change a fundamental problem.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:53 pm


    No need to get all frisky guys since there is also matter of defence doctrine to take into account.

    Russian Navy had lower investment for a while but there is a reason for that. Russian doctrine says nukes (sub nukes too) come first, ground troops second. Navy (surface) comes third, maybe even fourth.

    US doctrine on the other hand put Navy on the top spot.

    RU Navy is not expected to control the oceans, their job is to cover nuke assets and support ground component of military. Would they like aircraft carriers? Yes. Do they really need them that bad. No.

    And once they do get fresh carriers they will be using them in much different way than US Navy. And they will still not be top assets in overall hierarchy.

    What I am say in is apples and oranges.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:52 am

    Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades

    Sorry, but that is just ignorant.

    They have demonstrated the ability to use a corvette in the Caspian sea to hit a ground target with precision over 1,500km away... please list the British or French or American corvette able to do the same?

    The only comparable navy in terms of submarines is the US Navy which falls short in areas like conventional subs for obvious reasons.

    Those same corvettes are able to also carry a missile called Onyx, which is a 600km range Mach 3 anti ship missile... or the 2,500km range Kalibr in conventional and nuclear armed versions.

    Can you refine what you mean by major player?

    Those old obsolete vessels are still rather more powerful than many NATO vessels and only the US has ships that are comparable to many of them.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:01 am

    US doctrine on the other hand put Navy on the top spot.

    RU Navy is not expected to control the oceans, their job is to cover nuke assets and support ground component of military. Would they like aircraft carriers? Yes. Do they really need them that bad. No.

    The critical component of a US carrier group are the strike aircraft used to bomb countries... the carrier group is there to protect the carrier.

    For the Russians the purpose of an aircraft carrier is to take air power with a carrier group to protect the carrier group.

    It is the carrier groups purpose to sink enemy carrier groups hense the carrier carries 12 Granits, but the Kirov and Slava class cruisers carry 20 and 16 Granits respectively.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Honestly wouldn't expect the russians navy to be a major player for at least two decades

    Sorry, but that is just ignorant.

    They have demonstrated the ability to use a corvette in the Caspian sea to hit a ground target with precision over 1,500km away... please list the British or French or American corvette able to do the same?

    The only comparable navy in terms of submarines is the US Navy which falls short in areas like conventional subs for obvious reasons.

    Those same corvettes are able to also carry a missile called Onyx, which is a 600km range Mach 3 anti ship missile... or the 2,500km range Kalibr in conventional and nuclear armed versions.

    Can you refine what you mean by major player?

    Those old obsolete vessels are still rather more powerful than many NATO vessels and only the US has ships that are comparable to many of them.

    Has a full blue water force. The corvs are for off shore defense means and areas close to home.

    On the older stuff being better then modern Nato designs, That I am not sure about I highly doubt A Sovremennyy can beat a British type 45, maybe if they modernized the Sovre as far has I know they have only repair those not update the electronics or whatever on that class of ship.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:07 pm

    Has a full blue water force.

    I would not define a major naval player as needing thousands of ships all over the place... 8 Borei class SSBNs would actually suffice in being able to remove any country from existence within a few hours of the order being given.

    they are the only country with a decent icebreaking fleet.


    The corvs are for off shore defense means and areas close to home.

    The weapons it carries are standard weapons that will be carried by every new Russian vessel from Corvette to Cruiser... the fact that they can hit point land targets up to 2,500km from their launch position and also fire supersonic anti ship missiles... which in less than five years will include hypersonic anti ship missiles means nothing to you?

    That I am not sure about I highly doubt A Sovremennyy can beat a British type 45

    So what is so wonderful about the Type 45s? Harpoons are not a huge threat to Sovs, but Moskits might be an issue for Type 45s... have they worked out how to shoot down sea skimming missiles yet?


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  George1 on Thu May 19, 2016 2:45 pm

    Contract on aircraft carrier for Russian Navy may be signed by late 2025 — official

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/876770


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 20, 2016 10:52 am

    By then the likely main fixed wing aircraft on board will likely either be a naval PAK FA or light 5th gen fighter made by MiG...


    Or perhaps Tegas Mk 7... Twisted Evil


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri May 20, 2016 11:57 am

    GarryB wrote: The critical component of a US carrier group are the strike aircraft used to bomb countries... the carrier group is there to protect the carrier.

    For the Russians the purpose of an aircraft carrier is to take air power with a carrier group to protect the carrier group.

    It is the carrier groups purpose to sink enemy carrier groups hense the carrier carries 12 Granits, but the Kirov and Slava class cruisers carry 20 and 16 Granits respectively.


    and thats why Russians need vtol fighter like Yak-141 or MiG suggested LMFS prototype I-25V Smile


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    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Tue May 24, 2016 10:02 pm

    good ideas but not going to happen, this is totally out of the box lol. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy but the articles are worth a read even if its just to see the impressive models especially the one about the Typhoon.

    http://englishrussia.com/2015/10/23/awesome-soviet-ekranoplan-aircraft-carrier-project/




    http://englishrussia.com/2016/03/09/the-mysterious-story-of-russian-rogue-typhoon-submarine-aircraft-carrier/




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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Zivo on Tue May 24, 2016 10:22 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:good ideas but not going to happen, this is totally out of the box lol. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  but the articles are worth a read even if its just to see the impressive models especially the one about the Typhoon.

    ...

    Unrealistic, but cool. I'm not sure what the point of a swing wing ekranoplan would be.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 25, 2016 1:39 am

    Well you have to give them that, their fantasy is surprisingly awesome. Would probably be good for some sci fi movie if the movie overall does not have a sucking story.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed May 25, 2016 4:35 pm

    Zivo wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:good ideas but not going to happen, this is totally out of the box lol. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  but the articles are worth a read even if its just to see the impressive models especially the one about the Typhoon.

    ...

    Unrealistic, but cool. I'm  not sure what the point of a swing wing ekranoplan would be.

    Not to mention the "technical difficulties" in attempting flight deck operations while subjected to 500 knot head winds and jet wash.... Very Happy

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Militarov on Wed May 25, 2016 4:36 pm



    This tho would be really epic Smile

    I mean, not like something similar wasnt tried before.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed May 25, 2016 7:25 pm

    If it's an aircraft carrying submarine, then i would definitely go with the Chinese design, it's the closest thing to the conventional sub design, although with a lesser size then the one pictured.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Isos on Wed May 25, 2016 7:44 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:If it's an aircraft carrying submarine, then i would definitely go with the Chinese design, it's the closest thing to the conventional sub design, although with a lesser size then the one pictured.


    I like the concept of carrying submarines but not the concept of submarine carrier. 4 kilo class carried by a Aircraft carrier woud give a lot of protecion to it when it comes close to its deployment area.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 26, 2016 12:00 pm

    Perhaps a scaled down version based on the Akula SSBN with UCAVs instead of manned aircraft and with an air ship as an AWACS.

    The main thing these models lack is the angled flight deck so aircraft can take off and land at the same time without the risk of the landing aircraft running into an aircraft on deck ready for take off.

    Without that arrangement the landing/takeoff cycle is much much slower and performance is greatly degraded in terms of getting aircraft up and getting them back on board.

    Perhaps with the Akula class side extensions for a flat top so you have two straight runways on each side so one side can be for take offs and the other side for landings... this has the advantage of allowing two landings or takeoffs at one time to speed up either process. It does make the deck are larger however.

    Some sort of EM cat would greatly shorten the required take off run and add to the takeoff weight of the aircraft on board.

    I remember an Amiga 500 game from about 1989 called F-18 Interceptor by Bob Dinnerman where the enemy MiG-29s (which were black F-16s) attacked the US from a submersible carrier... it was about the first flight sim I can remember with external views of the aircraft...

    takes me back... Smile


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:36 pm

    Just had the best idea : They should call the new aicraft carrier USSR Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Twisted Evil

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:26 am

    Isos wrote:Just had the best idea : They should call the new aicraft carrier USSR Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Twisted Evil

    +1 thumbsup

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