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    Future russian aircraft carriers.

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    Sujoy
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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Sujoy on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:35 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:When wil the bleuprints be ready?
    Will they show them to the public?

    I don't know if any timeline has been set for the blueprint to be made available . Since no new aircraft carrier are likely to join the Navy before 2020 , the designers have considerable amount of time . Constructing the carrier should take 6 - 7 years .

    Designing an aircraft carrier is a complex issue . Advances in sub system technologies is one of the critical factors that influences the design of an aircraft carrier. The greatest influence on the design will of course be Launching and recovering aircrafts . Then there is the overall machinery concept for propulsion, aviation launch and recovery equipment, and other ship systems.Chances are the Russian Navy will go for nuclear propulsion.

    And also one cannot loose sight of the cost factor. To reduce costs Navies round the world are considering selected tradeoffs in capabilities and adopting new ways of doing business .

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:55 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:I **seem** to recall hearing that aircraft carriers will be built at a new shipyard owned by Sevmash (Severodvinsk, over by the White Sea); the shipyard is under construction or soon to be.

    The St. Petersburg and Vladivostok yards may have something to do with it I dunno; but only large enough dry dock for ships of such class will be in Severodvinsk; so that's where the bulk of the construction will take place.

    Makes sense too since they are the ones with the most experience. Rebuilding the Vikramadityu/Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian fleet and preparing to construct a Mistral class in the near future; not to mention their experience with nuclear-propelled vessels such as building atomic subs and the modernisation of the Admiral Nakhimov (Kirov class) due to start there soon.

    How long will it take to construct a shipyard?
    Cant wait for the carriers to come!

    Unfortunately you are going to have to wait a decade realistically my friend!

    There are some interesting things going on in shipbuilding until then though.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:19 am

    So the russians need experience first right?

    Well they need a carrier design to be completed first and then scrutinised and checked for potential problems/issues, and then lots of discussion... physical scale modelling and computer modelling and likely a few rival bids as well.

    Like I said before there is no point having a second carrier... even now as there is not enough support infrastructure and vessels to support two carriers at the moment.

    When can i expect the beginning of a second aircraft carrier?

    They likely wont start building a second carrier till 2022 at least, though they might lay two at once by then because by 2030 when they enter service the K might be ready to be put in reserve as a training carrier.

    The shipyard is already there then right?

    I suspect the new shipyard in Vladivostok will start with civilian ship production first... likely a few icebreaking LNG carriers or crude oil carriers able to sail the northern route.

    When wil the bleuprints be ready?
    Will they show them to the public?

    Very unlikely to reveal the real blueprints any time soon... even after they are finished... likely a few photos of bits of carrier like we have with the current frigate program.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:29 am

    GarryB wrote:
    So the russians need experience first right?

    Well they need a carrier design to be completed first and then scrutinised and checked for potential problems/issues, and then lots of discussion... physical scale modelling and computer modelling and likely a few rival bids as well.

    Like I said before there is no point having a second carrier... even now as there is not enough support infrastructure and vessels to support two carriers at the moment.

    When can i expect the beginning of a second aircraft carrier?

    They likely wont start building a second carrier till 2022 at least, though they might lay two at once by then because by 2030 when they enter service the K might be ready to be put in reserve as a training carrier.

    The shipyard is already there then right?

    I suspect the new shipyard in Vladivostok will start with civilian ship production first... likely a few icebreaking LNG carriers or crude oil carriers able to sail the northern route.

    When wil the bleuprints be ready?
    Will they show them to the public?

    Very unlikely to reveal the real blueprints any time soon... even after they are finished... likely a few photos of bits of carrier like we have with the current frigate program.

    Well thats actually very nice!
    Thanks for the info!

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:29 am

    Will the russian navy station an aircraft carrier in vladivostok to counter the us navy?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:24 am

    It is very likely they will station two of their Mistral class carriers in the Pacific Fleet, and the other two in the Northern Fleet. Regarding fixed wing carriers I would expect the same as the two main focus areas for Russia are protecting the Kurile Islands from Japanese attack, while also boosting the far east and its economic growth and expansion, and the arctic as a place for an alternative route from Asia to Europe for shipping and also mineral rights and oil and gas exploration.

    In each case the presence of a significant fleet and a carrier or two would be very useful.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:25 am

    I suspect the two Mistral class carriers made in France will be deployed in the Pacific fleet, while the two made largely in Russia will likely be stationed in Murmansk for the Northern Fleet.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:34 pm

    Oke so they actually split there new naval forces?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:46 pm

    2 Mistrals for the Pacific fleet I think goes without saying. There they are not only right on the doorstep of potential conflicts in East Asia but also ready for combat missions or humanitarian assistance to South-East Asia, Indonesia and the Indian Ocean.

    However I'm not sure whether 2 Mistrals in the Northern Fleet would be optimal though; there's absolutely nothing for them to do there, and it makes sense to keep the Mistrals where the action might kick off.

    Perhaps 1 Mistral in the Northern Fleet (that could be sent as part of a Northern Fleet taskforce to South America, Africa), and 1 Mistral in the Black Sea fleet (to share between the Black Sea basin and Mediterranean task force).

    But with only 1 Mistral with each fleet; there is no assurance that at any time at least one would be ready for action (refits, training/exercises, long-range visits to other countries could all make them unavailable).

    So perhaps 2 Mistrals for the Black Sea fleet would be best; one permanently in the Black Sea (in case of trouble in Abkhazia, Georgia, Romania/Moldova/Pridnestrovie), and one deployed to the Mediterranean flotilla. If needed, a Mistral can always be sent as part of a group to Africa or South America too.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  medo on Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:52 pm

    Mistrals have nothing to do in closed Baltic or Black Sea. All needed support and transport could be done from the Russian land and smaller ships. Two Mistrals will be more useful in Northern sea to operate together with Kuznetsov, Peter the great and nuclear icebreakers. Their operational teatre will be northern route and defending northern territories, because there are not many units in arctic region.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:08 pm

    So the other two Will be stationed at vladivostok?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:11 am

    Vladivostok will have 2 Mistrals... the main drive and urgency for their purchase was Georgias invasion of South Ossetia... the Russians realised that if it had been a Japanese invasion of the four Kurile Islands that they likely would not have been able to mobilise fast enough to stop them and once occupied would not have had the available forces to remove them easily.

    The result is that they ordered the Mistrals primarily to protect the Kurile Islands.

    They ordered two more because 4 makes more sense than just 2 or one economically.

    The Russian design for Mistral includes strengthened hulls to operate in ice and also increased height decks for the high coaxial rotor systems of the Hokums.

    The basing of the other two Mistrals in Murmansk shows the Russian Navys new role of protecting Russian interests to its north... including its northern coastline and offshore resources.

    There are lots of plans for military groups able to operate in the Arctic and also ship based nuclear power stations designed to be sailed to ports and up rivers to provide hot water and electricity to outposts to expand exploration and exploitation of new areas of Russia. It will also include scientific exploration too.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:34 am

    Actually thats all very intresting!
    I never read about the kurile islands but i searched it on google.

    I have a question for you guys: is there an upcoming war for the kurile islands?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:42 am

    No, not a chance.

    It is a cold conflict, a political spat at this point.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:42 am

    Unless Japan offers trillions in joint development cooperation, or a Russian President as naive as Boris... as drunk as Boris gives it as a gesture then I think the current situation will continue without change.

    They are barren empty rocks with Russian military personnel on them... Japan will have no chance for surprise and in a face off will not have the military force to take them.

    The islands themselves are not worth much but the waters around them are valuable for fishing for both countries, but it is also strategically important to the Russian Pacific Fleet.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:19 am

    Are the russians boosting the pacific fleet?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:35 am

    Yes.

    They will be sending two Mistral class helicopter carriers there in the next two years and will likely be sending lots of new support ships there to support their operations.

    They will also likely be boosting infrastructure there to support more ships and subs, while the land and air forces there will also be getting new equipment and training.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:54 pm

    Is this all because there is an upcoming conflict?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:46 pm

    No.

    Actually Russia boosting its Naval and armed forces in the Pacific region should actually reduce the chances for a military conflict.

    If Japan had struck in 2008 instead of Georgia then I think the Russian forces in the region would have struggled to have reacted in time to do anything.

    The rocks in question were unmanned.

    Now they are not and the quality of forces and the levels of equipment they are operating is improving all the time.

    By 2015 when the Mistrals are actually based there I think Japan would not be able to take them by force without a serious bloodbath disproportionate to the value of the Islands and the seas around them.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:37 pm

    And what about china and india? I think russia wil support india in a war wouldnt they?

    And would russia support india to in an upcoming war with pakistan?

    And isnt Russia building new carriers to counter the chinese growing navy?

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  NationalRus on Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:00 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:And what about china and india? I think russia wil support india in a war wouldnt they?

    And would russia support india to in an upcoming war with pakistan?

    And isnt Russia building new carriers to counter the chinese growing navy?

    no we wont support india in a imaginary fantasy war, grow up

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:06 pm

    Well i am just 12 so i still need to grow up yeah.

    Tell me if your having problems with it.

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:02 am

    And what about china and india? I think russia wil support india in a war wouldnt they?

    And would russia support india to in an upcoming war with pakistan?

    And isnt Russia building new carriers to counter the chinese growing navy?

    Russia is unlikely to intervene in any conflict involving China or India or both.

    India would not need Russian assistance against Pakistan, and a conflict between China and India is unlikely.

    Russia is building carriers to support its own fleet operations to become a blue water navy. It is no more building them to counter a growing Chinese navy than it is building them to counter a growing Indian navy.


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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:31 am

    Thanks

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    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:29 am

    I truely think Russia needs to take a good look at what they had previously. The Yak-141 jumpjet project was too good to give up, and yet, they did (understandably during the time it was being worked on). What I am getting at though is that a ship like what Japan recently commissioned, the 22DDH, is a wonderful ship, and something like that for Russian navy is hundreds of times better than the Mistral, and Kuztnetsov is in desperate need of repair and modernization.

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