Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Share
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman

    Posts : 543
    Points : 561
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Is there a chance that they are designing it in cooperation with china but ghen a whole new model?
    Not likely, though possible I suppose.

    Will the new russian carrier they're designing be the same size as ulyanovsk?
    Likely in the 40Kt to the 60Kt range... certainly nothing like the US 100kiloton range.
    Nice!

    How many kiloton range is the K having?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:30 am

    The Kuznetsov has a max overload weight of about 60,000 tons, but normal is just over 40,000 tons with a standard load and about 55,000 tons with a full load.

    I rather suspect the new carriers will be of a similar size but of a design better optimised for the use of UAVs and perhaps airships as well as conventional fixed and rotary wing aircraft.

    Keep in mind that the K has to carry is own heavy oil fuel, whereas a new carrier with nuclear propulsion will have less variation in operational weight as it does not need to carry fuel for itself... just fuel and ordinance for its air component.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Firebird

    Posts : 945
    Points : 977
    Join date : 2011-10-14

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Firebird on Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Kuznetsov has a max overload weight of about 60,000 tons, but normal is just over 40,000 tons with a standard load and about 55,000 tons with a full load.

    I rather suspect the new carriers will be of a similar size but of a design better optimised for the use of UAVs and perhaps airships as well as conventional fixed and rotary wing aircraft.

    Keep in mind that the K has to carry is own heavy oil fuel, whereas a new carrier with nuclear propulsion will have less variation in operational weight as it does not need to carry fuel for itself... just fuel and ordinance for its air component.

    Garry, I understood (from published interviews of snr naval officers) that various plans for new aircraft carriers had been submitted. These were described as "updated Ulyanovsks". That phrase was meant as a criticism. Because the U's had been designed in the 1980s and Russia's plan is to have a 21st Centyr carrier with all the latest cutting edge ideas.

    So from that, I read that the new carriers would be upto 80k tonnes or so. A little smaller than the Nimitzes, and the new US carriers. But definitely much more than the Kuznetsov class.

    Remember that, as with oil tankers, you get progessively more capacity for less cost, the larger the ship is. Additionally, nuclear propulsion is heavier than fossil fuel, I would believe.

    I know the K's are technically "aircraft carrying cruisers" - a phrase partly designed to tweak treaties about them going thro the Black Sea.
    But my understanding is still that Russia is planning a 6 aircraft carriers of 80k tonnes at some point. One of the North/ Atlantic- maybe even going down to S AMerica/ Middle East etc. And one for Asia. A 3rd being available at short notice at a push. And the rest in refit.
    (Obviously, this would take a long time to produce all 6, but the main cost is ofcourse building the 1st and 2nd etc). Perhaps some of these could even be leased to India etc..
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:56 am

    Garry, I understood (from published interviews of snr naval officers) that various plans for new aircraft carriers had been submitted. These were described as "updated Ulyanovsks". That phrase was meant as a criticism. Because the U's had been designed in the 1980s and Russia's plan is to have a 21st Centyr carrier with all the latest cutting edge ideas.
    That is why I said I think the new carriers will be in a similar weight class to the Kuznetsov but will be optimised for operating new technology like Airships and UAVs and UCAVs. I don't think it will be super radical like a trimaran hull with a centre propulsion and control hull and a left and right hull for take off and for landing with transfer lifts front and back to move aircraft from the landing hull to the take off hull... but I could be wrong.

    Additionally, nuclear propulsion is heavier than fossil fuel, I would believe.
    I wasn't suggesting it was... I was trying to say that with nuclear propulsion there would be less variation in the standard and max weights of the vessel.

    Remember that, as with oil tankers, you get progessively more capacity for less cost, the larger the ship is.
    Big ships are expensive... the bigger it is, the more expensive.

    I would think that a Russian carrier will never be as heavy as a US carrier as US carriers are strike carriers, while Russian carriers are fundamentally air defence carriers.

    But my understanding is still that Russia is planning a 6 aircraft carriers of 80k tonnes at some point. One of the North/ Atlantic- maybe even going down to S AMerica/ Middle East etc. And one for Asia. A 3rd being available at short notice at a push. And the rest in refit.
    The normal tempo for carrier ops is for one carrier to be fully operational, one carrier in training, and one in refit, so a fleet with 6 carriers means 4 available for operational use at a push and two in refit with the potential for being available in weeks or months depending of how much has been taken apart and what the work being done on it is.

    With more modern technology I suspect they might look at 20K to 60K ton vessels to keep costs down where initially the Mig-29K might be the fighter later to be replaced with PAK FA in its naval form along with UCAVs... perhaps based on the PAK FA itself as a fighter or perhaps even SKATE variants for strike missions that can be controlled and have a return portion.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10261
    Points : 10747
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:41 pm

    Russia May Build New Aircraft Carrier by 2023 – Designer

    MOSCOW, February 3 (RIA Novosti) – The development and construction of a new aircraft carrier for the Russian navy could take about 10 years, a St. Petersburg-based ship design bureau said Monday.

    Sergei Vlasov, general director of the Nevskoye design bureau, said the overall cost of the ship could range between 100 and 250 billion rubles ($2.8-7.1 billion).

    “If the ship will be armed with a variety of weaponry, its cost will skyrocket, but if it will carry only air defense systems, the cost will be less,” the official said.

    Vlasov said his bureau could design both a nuclear-powered and conventional version of the aircraft carrier. The former would have a deadweight of up to 85,000 metric tons, while the latter – up to 65,000 tons.

    The nuclear-powered ship would be able to carry some 70 aircraft and helicopters, while the conventional vessel – up to 55, he said.

    Vlasov added that the new carrier would serve as a seaborne platform for new-generation fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, in particular a fifth-generation fighter set to replace the Su-33 multirole fighter aircraft currently in service, as well as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV).

    According to Vlasov, the Russian navy needs at least four aircraft carriers: two for the Northern Fleet and two for the Pacific Fleet.

    At present, Russia has only one aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, built in 1985, with a displacement of 55,000 metric tons, a crew of 1,500 and capability to carry more than 50 aircraft.
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1170
    Points : 1329
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:29 am

    In its current state the Russian navy can already (or almost) be considered a blue water navy, although a small one. The carrier is there, the cruisers are there. Hell IDK why the French navy with 1 old beaten up AC and no cruisers is considered blue water but not the Russian.

    IMO the Russians should stick to the aviation cruiser concept because its more autonomous and you don't need 40 destroyers to support it. AWACS capability can be assured by a dedicated PAK DA variant cooperating with the task force.

    Another option would be(I prefer this one) would be to build succesors of the Kirovs that can fight almost completely independently and more stealthily, and be able to kill 2-3 carriers per encounter. And install 203mm< guns fring assisted ammo on them for shore bombardment and cheap dispatch of small ships as well as some kalibrs. Much cheaper than 40 T-50s. Of course that would be putting all your eggs in 1 basket but so do carriers to a large extent and as we see today the Russians hate cheap to build specialized vessels. There is no solution.

    If the Russians had been wise enough to keep a kiev or 2 (my favorite soviet vessel) in reserve to this day It could've been converted and upgraded to a UCAV carrying cruiser with a much larger usefulness due to the advent of the UKSK and such . The only problem would be stealthiness.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:26 am

    Yeah by virtue of its subs alone, how is Russia NOT a global navy? Ridiculous.

    Btw, just getting the Nakhimov alone back in service will end up costing the equivalent of probably 2-3 dozen PAK-FA at the very least.

    Projecting, developing and building a ship that you envision will cost closer to 400 PAK-FAs than 40 Wink .

    Not to mention Russia has a thousand priorities before making some stealth/shore bombardment monster, especially when the traditional weakness (land attack) is being rectified through widespread Kalibr proliferation.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman

    Posts : 543
    Points : 561
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:53 am

    George1 wrote:Russia May Build New Aircraft Carrier by 2023 – Designer

    MOSCOW, February 3 (RIA Novosti) – The development and construction of a new aircraft carrier for the Russian navy could take about 10 years, a St. Petersburg-based ship design bureau said Monday.

    Sergei Vlasov, general director of the Nevskoye design bureau, said the overall cost of the ship could range between 100 and 250 billion rubles ($2.8-7.1 billion).

    “If the ship will be armed with a variety of weaponry, its cost will skyrocket, but if it will carry only air defense systems, the cost will be less,” the official said.

    Vlasov said his bureau could design both a nuclear-powered and conventional version of the aircraft carrier. The former would have a deadweight of up to 85,000 metric tons, while the latter – up to 65,000 tons.

    The nuclear-powered ship would be able to carry some 70 aircraft and helicopters, while the conventional vessel – up to 55, he said.

    Vlasov added that the new carrier would serve as a seaborne platform for new-generation fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, in particular a fifth-generation fighter set to replace the Su-33 multirole fighter aircraft currently in service, as well as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV).

    According to Vlasov, the Russian navy needs at least four aircraft carriers: two for the Northern Fleet and two for the Pacific Fleet.

    At present, Russia has only one aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, built in 1985, with a displacement of 55,000 metric tons, a crew of 1,500 and capability to carry more than 50 aircraft.

    NICE!!!!!! The on of 85.000 tons sounds like the ulyanovsk!
    But i still would go for a updated kuznetsov, maybe Nuke Propulsion and of course one catapult!
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  collegeboy16 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:22 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Another option would be(I prefer this one) would be to build succesors of the Kirovs that can fight almost completely independently and more stealthily, and be able to kill 2-3 carriers per encounter. And install 203mm< guns fring assisted ammo on them for shore bombardment and cheap dispatch of small ships as well as some kalibrs. Much cheaper than 40 T-50s. Of course that would be putting all your eggs in 1 basket but so do carriers to a large extent and as we see today the Russians hate cheap to build specialized vessels. There is no solution.
    They already have the Yasen class which is stealthier than any stealthified surface ship and with scramjet missiles could potentially massacre carrier groups. Shore bombardment is passe? anyway, a smart enemy would just move his assets further inland and use airpower, missiles and artillery. Anyway, if by any chance they happen to have some extra money I think further improvement of Yasen class would be nice. Put some pumjet in it, make it all digital, increase automation even further, cover it with the new composite skin they are talking about, give it a satellite based targeting system. Basically most of which they are trying to do.
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4495
    Points : 4674
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:56 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Another option would be(I prefer this one) would be to build succesors of the Kirovs that can fight almost completely independently and more stealthily, and be able to kill 2-3 carriers per encounter. And install 203mm< guns fring assisted ammo on them for shore bombardment and cheap dispatch of small ships as well as some kalibrs. Much cheaper than 40 T-50s. Of course that would be putting all your eggs in 1 basket but so do carriers to a large extent and as we see today the Russians hate cheap to build specialized vessels. There is no solution.
    They already have the Yasen class which is stealthier than any stealthified surface ship and with scramjet missiles could potentially massacre carrier groups. Shore bombardment is passe? anyway, a smart enemy would just move his assets further inland and use airpower, missiles and artillery. Anyway, if by any chance they happen to have some extra money I think further improvement of Yasen class would be nice. Put some pumjet in it, make it all digital, increase automation even further, cover it with the new composite skin they are talking about, give it a satellite based targeting system. Basically most of which they are trying to do.

    Russian submarines are already capable of destroying carrier groups for quite sometime now, due in large part to Russia's large stores of advanced anti-ship missiles:




    ...As far as aircraft carriers go, Russia should have between 2-4 and no more in service at any given time, 2 for it's maritime borders. While aircraft carriers are useful, they're also highly overrated due to how expensive they are, and how they need carrier groups to protect them. The most lopsided asymmetrical fighting scenario in all of warfare is probably the aircraft carrier vs the anti-ship missile, a multi-billion dollar carrier can be taken out by $1 million anti-ship missiles, the second closest is armored vehicles vs IED's, then followed by low flying aircraft vs manpads. Russia should never go after the lofty goal of 9-to-11 aircraft carriers, I would rather prefer to see 9-to-11 Kirov class battlecruisers such as the Peter the Great, and many smaller military boats armed with most advanced missiles such as the anti-ship, cruise and sam variety.
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3207
    Points : 3321
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:56 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    collegeboy16 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Another option would be(I prefer this one) would be to build succesors of the Kirovs that can fight almost completely independently and more stealthily, and be able to kill 2-3 carriers per encounter. And install 203mm< guns fring assisted ammo on them for shore bombardment and cheap dispatch of small ships as well as some kalibrs. Much cheaper than 40 T-50s. Of course that would be putting all your eggs in 1 basket but so do carriers to a large extent and as we see today the Russians hate cheap to build specialized vessels. There is no solution.
    They already have the Yasen class which is stealthier than any stealthified surface ship and with scramjet missiles could potentially massacre carrier groups. Shore bombardment is passe? anyway, a smart enemy would just move his assets further inland and use airpower, missiles and artillery. Anyway, if by any chance they happen to have some extra money I think further improvement of Yasen class would be nice. Put some pumjet in it, make it all digital, increase automation even further, cover it with the new composite skin they are talking about, give it a satellite based targeting system. Basically most of which they are trying to do.

    ...As far as aircraft carriers go, Russia should have between 2-4 and no more in service at any given time, 2 for it's maritime borders. While aircraft carriers are useful, they're also highly overrated due to how expensive they are, and how they need carrier groups to protect them. The most lopsided asymmetrical fighting scenario in all of warfare is probably the aircraft carrier vs the anti-ship missile, a multi-billion dollar carrier can be taken out by $1 million anti-ship missiles, the second closest is armored vehicles vs IED's, then followed by low flying aircraft vs manpads. Russia should never go after the lofty goal of 9-to-11 aircraft carriers, I would rather prefer to see 9-to-11 Kirov class battlecruisers such as the Peter the Great, and many smaller military boats armed with most advanced missiles such as the anti-ship, cruise and sam variety.

    I'm sure GarryB can explain better but - 4 carriers is pretty much essential for continous coverage of 2 oceans. At any one time you can expect up to 2 of them to be in training/repair/modernisation/away visiting South America or somewhere; leaving 2 carriers ready for immediate operation - that's one per fleet; Pacific and Northern.

    Build any less carriers and you're in danger of not having one available precisely when you need it.

    So really, 4 is the optimal number if they have decided that they need a carrier group in each ocean fleet at permanent readiness.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10261
    Points : 10747
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:18 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    collegeboy16 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Another option would be(I prefer this one) would be to build succesors of the Kirovs that can fight almost completely independently and more stealthily, and be able to kill 2-3 carriers per encounter. And install 203mm< guns fring assisted ammo on them for shore bombardment and cheap dispatch of small ships as well as some kalibrs. Much cheaper than 40 T-50s. Of course that would be putting all your eggs in 1 basket but so do carriers to a large extent and as we see today the Russians hate cheap to build specialized vessels. There is no solution.
    They already have the Yasen class which is stealthier than any stealthified surface ship and with scramjet missiles could potentially massacre carrier groups. Shore bombardment is passe? anyway, a smart enemy would just move his assets further inland and use airpower, missiles and artillery. Anyway, if by any chance they happen to have some extra money I think further improvement of Yasen class would be nice. Put some pumjet in it, make it all digital, increase automation even further, cover it with the new composite skin they are talking about, give it a satellite based targeting system. Basically most of which they are trying to do.

    ...As far as aircraft carriers go, Russia should have between 2-4 and no more in service at any given time, 2 for it's maritime borders. While aircraft carriers are useful, they're also highly overrated due to how expensive they are, and how they need carrier groups to protect them. The most lopsided asymmetrical fighting scenario in all of warfare is probably the aircraft carrier vs the anti-ship missile, a multi-billion dollar carrier can be taken out by $1 million anti-ship missiles, the second closest is armored vehicles vs IED's, then followed by low flying aircraft vs manpads. Russia should never go after the lofty goal of 9-to-11 aircraft carriers, I would rather prefer to see 9-to-11 Kirov class battlecruisers such as the Peter the Great, and many smaller military boats armed with most advanced missiles such as the anti-ship, cruise and sam variety.

    I'm sure GarryB can explain better but - 4 carriers is pretty much essential for continous coverage of 2 oceans. At any one time you can expect up to 2 of them to be in training/repair/modernisation/away visiting South America or somewhere; leaving 2 carriers ready for immediate operation - that's one per fleet; Pacific and Northern.

    Build any less carriers and you're in danger of not having one available precisely when you need it.

    So really, 4 is the optimal number if they have decided that they need a carrier group in each ocean fleet at permanent readiness.

    i would say 5, 4 new for the fleets and Kuznetsov for training/away visiting South America or somewhere
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:25 pm

    4-5 carriers?

    I hope that NEVER happens. What a money sink for Russia.

    At the very most 2, so we can have 1 constantly ready to be deployed to hot spots.
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:57 am

    TR1 wrote:4-5 carriers?

    I hope that NEVER happens. What a money sink for Russia.

    At the very most 2, so we can have 1 constantly ready to be deployed to hot spots.
    I agree, 2 carriers for the near future at most. They are only needed in the pacific anyway.
    The subs are already doing a great job keeping the arctic safe from intruders, plus lots
    of land bases where long-legged aircraft can take off from. The cue to make arctic aircraft carriers
    would be if the west build anything like the multipurpose Yasens, and ofc. arctic aircraft carriers
    themselves.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:18 am

    4-5 carriers?

    I hope that NEVER happens. What a money sink for Russia.

    At the very most 2, so we can have 1 constantly ready to be deployed to hot spots.

    If you want a global capable Navy then 4-5 carriers would be essential.

    "saving" money not having carriers would be like saving military spending by having an Army but not an Air Force...

    Russian carriers will not be like US Nimitz class carriers in cost and design.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1339
    Points : 1346
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    4-5 carriers?

    I hope that NEVER happens. What a money sink for Russia.

    At the very most 2, so we can have 1 constantly ready to be deployed to hot spots.

    If you want a global capable Navy then 4-5 carriers would be essential.

    "saving" money not having carriers would be like saving military spending by having an Army but not an Air Force...

    Russian carriers will not be like US Nimitz class carriers in cost and design.
    So basically:
    2: Northern Fleet
    2: Pacific Fleet
    1: Black/Mediterranean sea Fleet

    Looks good, although i wonder if the Baltic Fleet would need one? scratch 
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1170
    Points : 1329
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:44 pm

    IMO all the Baltic and black sea fleets need are 10-15 littoral corvettes, 2-3 frigates, 2 ivan grens, 20 patrol boats and 15-20 diesel subs per fleet.
    avatar
    Hannibal Barca

    Posts : 1241
    Points : 1263
    Join date : 2013-12-13

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:28 pm

    Two big and two small carriers would be just about perfect for Russia.
    You have to add to this the heli carriers as well for a total of 8 ships.
    I would even compromise with 5 if needed.

    The point is. Should all be nuclear, with modern catapults and everything.
    Defenses and technologies is of minor importance. AC are for parades anyway.
    Just cheep, easy to build, but big with a lot of planes
    and capable of moving around fast to keep with celebration after celebration in schedule
    and with a big deck for the best parties. This is all AC are needed this days.
    If this numbers are fulfilled until 2030 everything will be right.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:40 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:IMO all the Baltic and black sea fleets need are 10-15 littoral corvettes, 2-3 frigates, 2 ivan grens, 20 patrol boats and 15-20 diesel subs per fleet.

    15-20 subs?!?!?!?

    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1170
    Points : 1329
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:22 pm

    In case 5-10 of them get destroyed in the first hours by some type 45s, visbys, or MEKOs(which will certainly happen)
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  TR1 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:28 pm

    My good man, the entire Russian Navy today operates less than 20 diseal submarines.

    And you want 15-20 per fleet?

    Also, lol, you have such a poor respect for Russian subs you think 5-10 modern subs will be sunk in the FIRST HOURS?!? But those surface assets, MUCH more vulnerable, will somehow stay alive? Visby is an expensive floating 57mm platform, sooo scary to a modern sub. Have they even been fitted with an anti-sub armament yet? It took them years to even get SSMs.

    Also where you gonna find all these Type 45s in the Black Sea?

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:33 am

    So basically:
    2: Northern Fleet
    2: Pacific Fleet
    1: Black/Mediterranean sea Fleet

    Looks good, although i wonder if the Baltic Fleet would need one?

    No.

    Thinking more 2 Northern and 2-3 Pacific.



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Viktor on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:39 pm

    Nice  thumbsup 


    Neva Design Bureau on its own initiative develops projects three types of aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy


    CEO Nevsky PKB Sergey Vlasov wrote:Neva PKB is developing a light, medium and heavy aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy in the initiative order. These works will allow to quickly proceed to design an aircraft carrier of the selected type, if so decided by the government

    Vlasov said the new carrier can be equipped with an electromagnetic catapult. "I think if we create a new aircraft carrier, and its creation would take about 10 years, during this time, may establish and catapult" - believes CEO.

    The cost of new light Russian aircraft carrier will be approximately 100-130 billion rubles., Heavy - 200-280 billion rubles
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7255
    Points : 7555
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:55 am

    That is still $3B for 1 aircraft carrier, being light carrier that is still a lot of money.  Wouldn't Russia be better off with LHC's instead?  But regardless, I can see them building the light ones, a few of them.

    TR1 wrote:My good man, the entire Russian Navy today operates less than 20 diseal submarines.

    And you want 15-20 per fleet?

    Also, lol, you have such a poor respect for Russian subs you think 5-10 modern subs will be sunk in the FIRST HOURS?!? But those surface assets, MUCH more vulnerable, will somehow stay alive? Visby is an expensive floating 57mm platform, sooo scary to a modern sub. Have they even been fitted with an anti-sub armament yet? It took them years to even get SSMs.

    Also where you gonna find all these Type 45s in the Black Sea?


    Which is a shame that they only have that many left. More Improved Kilo's should really be purchased. Unless Lada will end up coming out. But regardless, Submarines are very important and useful for modern sea/ocean warfare and coastal defense.
    avatar
    Flyingdutchman

    Posts : 543
    Points : 561
    Join date : 2013-07-30
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:56 am

    I think the best option is 3 medium aircraft carriers 1 in the northern fleet and 2 in the pacific fleet.
    With growing tensions almost everywhere in the south they really need some aircraft carriers!

    Sponsored content

    Re: Future russian aircraft carriers.

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:14 am