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    PAK-DA: News

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:38 pm

    It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal. The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:42 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact.  Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.  

    Say the Americans...

    Actually it was the Russian Defence Ministry...

    Russian strategic Tu-95 missile carriers struck terrorist targets in Syria using Kh-101 cruise missiles from a distance of around 1,000 km, destroying three large stockpiles of weapons and ammunition as well as a terrorist command post on the border of provinces of Hama and Homs, Russia's Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/07/c_136423482.htm

    Putin word:

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54993

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    eehnie

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:45 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:If we are going to keep the strategic aviation we need a replacement.  The Tu-95 was a beast of its day but I am almost embarrassed that we still fly it.  At least we should have built more Tu-160 to replace those until a new generation could be conceived.  If we are not building more Tu-160 we need something immediately or strategic aviation could be lost.

    For launching cruise missile with a range of 5000km you don't need anything new. Tu-95 is more than enough.

    Answering to both.

    If Russia is using Tu-95/142 is because the aircraft had and has still a mechanical reseve that allow it. Obviously this mechanical reserve will be finished despite the large production of aircraft, and very likely will be finished before in the case of the Tu-95 variants than in the case of the Tu-142 variants, just because Russia decided it this way.

    If Russia is ordering new big strategic bombers is because otherwise its numbers would begin to decline under the fleet that Russia wants to have. If Russia ordered not them until now is because it was not necessary, thanks to the legacy of the Soviet Union. To note that if the Tu-22 modernized is not being ordered still, is because the mechanical reserve of this aircraft still allows to keep its numbers longer.

    Now the orders begin in the refered to the big strategic bombers, and having a need of producing new big strategic bombers, Russia selected the return to the production of the Tu-160 over the return to production of the Tu-95/142. There are reasons for it. Obviously the comment of Isos is totally wrong.

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:46 pm

    dino00 wrote:

    Putin word:

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54993


    The fact he said it is not in question, are you following this or just knee-jerk reactions?
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:53 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    So Kalibr dont have 2500km range either?...

    Do you realy think a air launched Cruise missile introduced in 2011 by Russia only have a ``slightly`` greater range than 1000km Suspect
    That does not make sense what about kh55/555???
    Even the Chinese have air launched Cruise missile with greater range than that but Russia somehow not?
    All the weapons he talked about exist in different stages of development. The pentagon didn`t deny that.
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    kvs

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:53 pm

    Typical "Russian" response to Russian innovations: "ours is trash, the west's is Godly magic".

    The only knee jerk assertions I see here is the BS claim about 22 miles range. You lost all
    credibility with this ludicrous claim. You clearly have no understanding of the physics. Even
    a primitive steam propeller system would have thousands of miles of range and higher.
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    kvs

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:54 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    So Kalibr dont have 2500km range either?...

    Do you realy think a air launched Cruise missile introduced in 2011 by Russia only have a ``slightly`` greater range than 1000km Suspect
    That does not make sense what about kh55/555???
    Even the Chinese have air launched Cruise missile with greater range than that but Russia somehow not?
    All the weapons he talked about exist in different stages of development. The pentagon didn`t deny that.

    I think it is pointless to argue. I smell pro-NATO liberasty on this board.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:01 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    dino00 wrote:

    Putin word:

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54993


    The fact he said it is not in question, are you following this or just knee-jerk reactions?

    I have respect for every single person and opinion, i dont know what that expression means, and will not look it up...

    Vladimir 79 it was in question you Said it was the defense minister, but the point isnt important.

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:04 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    So Kalibr dont have 2500km range either?...

    Do you realy think a air launched Cruise missile introduced in 2011 by Russia only have a ``slightly`` greater range than 1000km Suspect
    That does not make sense what about kh55/555???
    Even the Chinese have air launched Cruise missile with greater range than that but Russia somehow not?
    All the weapons he talked about exist in different stages of development. The pentagon didn`t deny that.

    Kalibr has been demonstrated from the Caspian Sea into Syria which is 1000 miles away, so we know it can go a bit further than that.  I think Putin is making up for the weakness of the arms industry by making paper tiger claims much like Chinese media makes about itself and I really hate it as you could get far more reliable information just a few years ago.

    We have not had any great technological advance in microturbofans that leap frogged us ahead of the Americans and French for range.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:08 pm

    kvs wrote:Typical "Russian" response to Russian innovations: "ours is trash, the west's is Godly magic".

    The only knee jerk assertions I see here is the BS claim about 22 miles range.   You lost all
    credibility with this ludicrous claim.   You clearly have no understanding of the physics.   Even
    a primitive steam propeller system would have thousands of miles of range and higher.

    The 22 miles range is from the nuclear powered missile it could be truth
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:14 pm

    .[/quoteWe have not had any great technological advance in microturbofans that leap frogged us ahead of the Americans and French for range.[/quote]

    Americans have alcm with more than 3500km range
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:14 pm

    kvs wrote:Typical "Russian" response to Russian innovations: "ours is trash, the west's is Godly magic".

    The only knee jerk assertions I see here is the BS claim about 22 miles range.   You lost all
    credibility with this ludicrous claim.   You clearly have no understanding of the physics.   Even
    a primitive steam propeller system would have thousands of miles of range and higher.

    The only evidence is of a 2 minute flight that went 22 miles. If you have any evidence of longer test flights you are free to post. If you continue to run attacks against my intelligence you will find your stay here brief.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:15 pm

    kvs wrote:

    I think it is pointless to argue.   I smell pro-NATO liberasty on this board.

    I am going to clean the Stron.k out of this forum and bring back its credibility.  This is the order of things.


    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:22 pm

    There was a video of a russian scientists that worked in russian military fields in front of israeli specialists where he claims ranges for russian missiles are much longer than what is said.

    Kh-55/101, kalibr are much bigger than us akd french missile with more fuel. So range is bigger than uS and french missiles.

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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:24 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    dino00 wrote:

    I think it is pointless to argue.   I smell pro-NATO liberasty on this board.

    I am going to clean the Stron.k out of this forum and bring back its credibility.  This is the order of things.

    The quote isnt my. I didnt say that.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:25 pm

    Isos wrote:There was a video of a russian scientists that worked in russian military fields in front of israeli specialists where he claims ranges for russian missiles are much longer than what is said.

    Kh-55/101, kalibr are much bigger than us akd french missile with more fuel. So range is bigger than uS and french missiles.


    I think a good extrapolation would be the fuel capacity of a Scalp Naval with its 1000km range and take that with the fuel capacity of an X-101 to get to its true range.  It is twice the weight so it could get around 2000km range. For someone to tell me that it is 4500-5000km would mean we have some super advanced microturbfan that surpasses anything the West has when there is ZERO evidence such is the case.
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:22 pm

    Do you have sources for your claim that the range is smaller than the 4500 - 5500km (conventional/nuclear versions) that every source out there mentions?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:26 pm

    Yes, actual tests of the weapon that do not exceed 2000km. If something is going to have a range of 5000km, it must be tested at 5000km for it's validation. Weapons are not put into service without testing their capabilities.
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:44 pm

    Scalp/Storm Shadow weighs 1.300 kg. Warhead: 450kg.
    Kh-101/-102 weighs 2.400 kg. Warhead: 400kg.
    This would mean nearly a ton more fuel.

    Don´t know about your claims about testing, because i wasn´t there personally, but minister Shoigu did mention the range of the weapon after it was used in Syria for the first time as around 4.000km+.


    Another point: Russia could build a cruise missile with a range of 3.000km in the 80´s, so a increase of 50% seems feasible.

    Plus: the Scalp/Storm Shadow is more a operational-tactical missile, not a strategic one. The Kh-50 seems a better comparison. If it will be fielded.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:07 pm

    Feel free to issue the test of a Kh-55 at 3000km. Just because it was accepted as fact doesn't make it so. I have monitored these tests for years and the launch platform is never more than 2000km away from the target range. I will tell you why I am going off on this now, the China thread about cruise missiles based on obsolete French turbojets going 1500km is rather insulting to my intelligence. This is less so as our turbofans are far more advanced than China but they do not exceed the French in fuel efficient turbofan ratios. We have to partner with Safran just to get the SaM146 efficient enough to make the SSJ100 competitive. If we have a 2400kg cruise missile that can fly 5000km where is our leap in technology that makes it possible?
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:29 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    dino00 wrote:The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

    Putin word yes sir

    Just because Putin says something that doesn't make it true, Things need to be backed up with facts not "He said,  she said".

    ``He`` is the president...should deserve some credibility.
    We don`t have proofs to the contrary...by your standard we can`t talk about almost any weapon.
    Putin Said it has 4500km range when alot of information, was that the missile had an even greater range.

    He can be the Emperor that doesn't change the fact the guy has lied before. so no he will get no credibility, no more then I would give anyone who stated Bs American or Russian.

    I have seen no data or test data that says the missile can go 5000km, there is jack nadda to support that.

    I have access to better information sources than most. If you have real evidence show it, not a guy saying it can.

    I don't deal in what if's I deal in facts.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:34 pm

    Hole wrote:Scalp/Storm Shadow weighs 1.300 kg. Warhead: 450kg.
    Kh-101/-102 weighs 2.400 kg. Warhead: 400kg.
    This would mean nearly a ton more fuel.

    Don´t know about your claims about testing, because i wasn´t there personally, but minister Shoigu did mention the range of the weapon after it was used in Syria for the first time as around 4.000km+.


    Another point: Russia could build a cruise missile with a range of 3.000km in the 80´s, so a increase of 50% seems feasible.

    Plus: the Scalp/Storm Shadow is more a operational-tactical missile, not a strategic one. The Kh-50 seems a better comparison. If it will be fielded.

    You misunderstood him he said the missile had an Altitude of 4K, and it's max is like 6k.

    It's max range is like 2800km maybe 3000km.

    The event you are talking about the missile only flew about 1000km has recorded by EVERYONE. The missile did not fly 4000km that is a big steaming lie.
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:04 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Feel free to issue the test of a Kh-55 at 3000km.  Just because it was accepted as fact doesn't make it so.  I have monitored these tests for years and the launch platform is never more than 2000km away from the target range.  I will tell you why I am going off on this now, the China thread about cruise missiles based on obsolete French turbojets going 1500km is rather insulting to my intelligence.  This is less so as our turbofans are far more advanced than China but they do not exceed the French in fuel efficient turbofan ratios.  We have to partner with Safran just to get the SaM146 efficient enough to make the SSJ100 competitive.  If we have a 2400kg cruise missile that can fly 5000km where is our leap in technology that makes it possible?  

    French never gave real ranges about their missiles. MdCN is said to be 1000+km not 1000km. Scalp also was said to be 200 or 300km while it was actually 500-600km.

    Depending on the flight profile, achieving 40000-5000km is possible for kh-55/101 in my opinion.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  LMFS on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:51 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    Ok... are you submitting that the weapons presented on March 1st are fake? Just asking...
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:58 pm

    LMFS wrote:

    Ok... are you submitting that the weapons presented on March 1st are fake? Just asking...

    I wouldn't call it fake... more like pipe-dreams.

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