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    PAK-DA: News

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    George1

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:14 am

    Isos wrote:What is "PAK YES" ?

    PAK-DA. It comes out "YES" in the google translation (da=yes) Very Happy , i will fix it


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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:20 am

    George1 wrote:
    Isos wrote:What is "PAK YES" ?

    PAK-DA. It comes out "YES" in the google translation (da=yes)  Very Happy , i will fix it

    lol1
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 am

    not sure if i like this idea of "Smaller, cheaper and subsonic", seems like a downgrade to me in comparison with Tu-160.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:32 am

    Arctic_Fox wrote:not sure if i like this idea of "Smaller, cheaper and subsonic", seems like a downgrade to me in comparison with Tu-160.

    They are still getting Tu-160s so no problems

    Besides something has to do the low grade work, they can't run expensive birds for everything

    marcellogo

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  marcellogo on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:13 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Arctic_Fox wrote:not sure if i like this idea of "Smaller, cheaper and subsonic", seems like a downgrade to me in comparison with Tu-160.

    They are still getting Tu-160s so no problems

    Besides something has to do the low grade work, they can't run expensive birds for everything

    Yes, also because having two different kind of approach, a big, fast supercruising bomber and a more affordable, very long range/time on station, subsonic but stealth plane would made things much more difficult for the counterpart.

    The presence of first one would need to keep almost all the F-22A in their actual bases on american territory when instead the presence of scores of the second , armed with hypersonic antiship missiles will be a constant menace for the CVN .

    In the meantime there are circulating the news that B-1B and B-2 would be retired as soon as B-21 would be produced in enough quantity.
    And rightly so, the Bone is not in any way comparable to a Tu-22M or Tu-160 as it reach just 1,3M so no clear advantage neither in comparison to the PAK-DA while the B-2 is a white elephant and will offer nothing substantially superior to the B-21.

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:05 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:So either Piotr Butowski was using as base fanboys' art or fanboys knew something we dont Smile

    I always felt it looked too much like a Manta Ray to be taken seriously...

    especially in this camouflage Smile  But manta Ray has non stealth  inlet when its hungry  so to speak Smile




    archangelski wrote:

    More in line with the TsAGI model of a Tupolev design :

    Looks like a plastic toy model at fist sight Smile BTW I wonder how large cockpit there can be? enough to stretch legs? go to toilet? to prepare some food?

    marcellogo

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  marcellogo on Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:42 pm

    Isos wrote:What is "PAK YES" ?
    Automated translator took the acronym DA (Dalinska Avyiatsia-Long Range Aviation) for the plain word Da and translated it with Yes...
    Same with mashina being translated to road car instead than just machine.

    Install Yandex Browser to get rid of such inconvenience, being based on russian language it manage the automatic translation better.
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:01 pm

    not sure if i like this idea of "Smaller, cheaper and subsonic", seems like a downgrade to me in comparison with Tu-160.

    Affordable makes sense because they can have more in service...

    Do you think the A-10 and Su-25 are rubbish because they are subsonic?

    All those supersonic fighters and no supersonic inflight refuelling aircraft...

    Supersonic costs money... why make a stand off cruise missile carrier supersonic?

    Makes rather more sense to make the missiles hypersonic...


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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    not sure if i like this idea of "Smaller, cheaper and subsonic", seems like a downgrade to me in comparison with Tu-160.

    Affordable makes sense because they can have more in service...

    Do you think the A-10 and Su-25 are rubbish because they are subsonic?

    All those supersonic fighters and no supersonic inflight refuelling aircraft...

    Supersonic costs money... why make a stand off cruise missile carrier supersonic?

    Makes rather more sense to make the missiles hypersonic...

    They would have hard time makeing Su-25 and A-10 supersonic. With armements they produce drag as no other fighter jet. Subsonic means less powerfull engine but more economic so they can fly at low lvl during all the mission which is better specially in a mountainous environement.

    Those two Aircraft are the best one ever build in my opinion. They are the most usefull for every war.

    wilhelm

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  wilhelm on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:16 pm

    Eehnie seems to have made himself scarce...
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 am


    They would have hard time makeing Su-25 and A-10 supersonic.

    When they were introduced there were plenty of fast moving fighterbombers like the MiG-27 and the Su-17 family in the Soviet Union and the Jaguar in the west...

    The point is that their jobs did not need supersonic speed... ability to operate from frontline strips was more important than high speed and long range... low speed meant targets could be spotted and dealt with, and extra weapons pylons allowed heavy weapon loads to be carried.

    With armements they produce drag as no other fighter jet.

    Subsonic means more internal volume to carry more weapons internally... these aircraft are not first strike aircraft.... even at high subsonic flight to the launch area and a supersonic dash and then launch and then flight home for a Tu-160 will take 8 hours or more for the missiles to hit their targets, so it is not like having supersonic speed is going to make any difference.

    The airspace they will be penetrating will be about 3-4 hours after all those ICBM warheads and SLBM warheads have vaporised everything.

    Subsonic means less powerfull engine but more economic so they can fly at low lvl during all the mission which is better specially in a mountainous environement.

    Actually the turbojet engine of the Su-25 is not that efficient at low altitude... it would be rather more efficient at medium to high altitude like most jet engines.

    Those two Aircraft are the best one ever build in my opinion. They are the most usefull for every war.

    they are better than their supersonic equivalents because very high speed is actually counter productive for the missions they engage in.

    For a strategic bomber speed is not useless, but it wont make them invulnerable either and it costs a lot of money in terms of weight and fuel and design compromises to achieve supersonic speed... by going for subsonic you save an awful lot of money and greatly increase your design options... including increase internal volume for fuel and weapons.

    the new missiles it will be carrying will be bigger... 12m or more in length perhaps with flight ranges of more than 5,000km, or very high flight speeds... carrying them internally improves flight performance by not increasing drag, and keeps RCS low... I doubt they will go for a tiny RCS as that is expensive, but if they can keep it relatively low it extends the distance at which it can operate from enemy forces without being spotted easily.


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:46 pm

    wilhelm wrote:Eehnie seems to have made himself scarce...

    Nah, he's probably digging through Star Wars wookieepedia trying to get more "evidence" that flotilla of Lider destroyers has almost completed construction.... Smile

    I guarantee you he is coming back with more "facts"

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